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View Full Version : Moving Target Vs. Moving Shooter


wildcard
04-08-2008, 12:34 PM
So I was at one of Timberwolf's earlier monthly matches at APS and was informed that something "moving" would be involved in the COF. When it was actually time to shoot, we found out that it would be the shooter that would be riding on a trailer and here's what transpired:

I said: "I thought we would be shooting a moving target"
TWolf said: "What's the difference"
I said: "I guess there really isn't any"

I had been tricked and deceived.. but I still made my hit(s) :)

Let me just say I didn't think it all the way through before I answered. Conceptually there's no difference between shooting a moving target or if the shooter was doing the moving if we lived in a perfect world.. but there's a HUGE difference. Those that have shot this COF know what I mean.

Prc329
04-08-2008, 12:39 PM
I can see a huge difference in shooting a moving target vs moving shooter. From experience it is night and day. The shooter would have a much more stable platform to shoot from if the target was moving.

One thing to consider does leading the target come into play if the shooter is moving? I am having difficulty wrapping my head around that one.

Timberwolf
04-08-2008, 12:48 PM
Conceptionally if you are moving or the target is moving the lead is the same with follow through etc etc. But you are absolutely right there is a huge difference between shooting a moving target from a stationary position and a stationary target from a moving position. Add in the rough terrain, the cramped trailer and you have bored on a Sunday afternoon, gotta find something to pass the time, B & B special.

But this is LA - we don't fire at moving targets we have drive bys.

wildcard
04-08-2008, 12:48 PM
One thing to consider does leading the target come into play if the shooter is moving? I am having difficulty wrapping my head around that one.

Yes. Same concept as throwing something out of a moving car.. except slower. Try throwing a tennis ball at a target when you're driving in your vehicle. The tennis ball will miss your target in the direction your car was traveling. "A object in motion stays in motion until another force acts upon it." Everything in/ on the vehicle is already moving at a certain speed in a certain direction.

rksimple
04-08-2008, 12:56 PM
OK, I don't have a degree in Physics or anything, but how does the velocity component of the shooter play into it. For example, if the shooters bullet is shot along the y axis and shooter (and therefore bullet while in the gun) is going on the x axis, is there a certain lateral velocity imparted to the bullet beyond the lead accounted for by the appearance of the target moving?

Did that make sense?

wildcard
04-08-2008, 1:03 PM
OK, I don't have a degree in Physics or anything, but how does the velocity component of the shooter play into it. For example, if the shooters bullet is shot along the y axis and shooter (and therefore bullet while in the gun) is going on the x axis, is there a certain lateral velocity imparted to the bullet beyond the lead accounted for by the appearance of the target moving?

Did that make sense?

Let's assume you were traveling 5 FPS along the X-axis.. then your bullet would not only travel along on the Y-axis, but also at 5 FPS along the X-axis.

If you're shooting at a stationary target hold for 5 FPS and you're good to go.

In other words: Appearance of the target moving = You moving

Prc329
04-08-2008, 1:28 PM
o.k. I think I got it. My impression was once the bullet left the barrel the lateral motion of the shooter would not come in to play vs shooter still and trying to make the target and bullet arrive at the same place together.

Forestboy
04-08-2008, 1:30 PM
If you aim dead on at the target you will miss in whatever direction you are moving.... So aim behind. What's really fun is when you are moving and the target is moving. What's the lead for a coyote going 35 mph and a depredation hunter in a helicopter going 50 mph..... The same lead if you were going 15 mph and the 'yote was standing still.....:D

wildcard
04-08-2008, 1:36 PM
If you aim dead on at the target you will miss in whatever direction you are moving.... So aim behind. What's really fun is when you are moving and the target is moving. What's the lead for a coyote going 35 mph and a depredation hunter in a helicopter going 50 mph..... The same lead if you were going 15 mph and the 'yote was standing still.....:D

Only if you're moving parallel and in the same direction :)

rksimple
04-08-2008, 2:02 PM
If you aim dead on at the target you will miss in whatever direction you are moving.... So aim behind. What's really fun is when you are moving and the target is moving. What's the lead for a coyote going 35 mph and a depredation hunter in a helicopter going 50 mph..... The same lead if you were going 15 mph and the 'yote was standing still.....:D

That, and what about the blast from the prop? Hold over too?:D

wildcard
04-08-2008, 2:07 PM
That, and what about the blast from the prop? Hold over too?:D

Na.. cancels out since you're shooting at an angle :D

Forestboy
04-08-2008, 4:42 PM
That, and what about the blast from the prop? Hold over too?:D

Most of that kind of stuff is done with shotguns and buckshot.

I have hit coyotes with a 10/22 with a 6-18 power scope while I was moving, they were running, at night with a spotlight from 25-150 yds. The hardest part was getting the coyotes in the scope while moving. And reloading every 10 rounds. (My buddy that is a dairy farmer had the depredation permits and I had the gear) Had I known he had the permits before getting there I would have brought my AR.

This fall it will be an AR with an eotech. And 30 rd mags. Not in CA.

InvictusManeo
04-08-2008, 4:44 PM
Let's assume you were traveling 5 FPS along the X-axis.. then your bullet would not only travel along on the Y-axis, but also at 5 FPS along the X-axis.

If you're shooting at a stationary target hold for 5 FPS and you're good to go.

In other words: Appearance of the target moving = You moving

I don't know how pronounced it is with bullets (may be a negligible effect with a rifle) but lateral momentum dies faster than forward momentum. At least that was my experience with drive-by archery from the back of a quad with my soon-to-be brother in law... Took 4 or 5 passes just to hit a hay bale at 10-15 yards!