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View Full Version : I got banned from onwning a gun for 5 years!!!


Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 7:08 PM
:(Hello I am a 17 year old. A month ago I got sent to a hospital after the authorities got ahold of a story I wrote. It was purely fiction but it was violent enough to get me 5150'd. That means I was under involuntary comital for being a threat to myself and others. They made me sign a form informing me that I could not own a firearm until I am 23. That is unaceptable as I was eager to turn 18 and buy one legally. I wanted a Bushmaster Acr and a 870.

I can challange the form in court but Its not likely esp. in california that I could win. It might only apply as a state rule in which case I don't want to move anyway. As cool as guns are college is more important.

This is the real kicker.

THE POLICE TOLD ME THAT I HAD COMMITED NO CRIME AND THEY HAD NO GROUNDS FOR ARREST AND I HAVE BEEN PROVEN NOT TO BE A THREAT TO MYSELF OR OTHERS AFTER INTENSE PSYCLOLOGICAL EVALUTATION. IF THE HAD NO GROUNDS FOR ARREST AND I AM NOT A THREAT HOW IS THIS LEGAL?

After learning about the bullet button I was ready to get my first .223 now the bullet button will proably be banned by the time I'm old enough. Bummer. Advice Calguns?:(

RRangel
04-07-2008, 7:11 PM
Please talk to a lawyer about your situation. That's the best way it's going to be resolved.

DedEye
04-07-2008, 7:11 PM
Talk to a lawyer, not the internet.

jkasandiego
04-07-2008, 7:13 PM
OUCHHHH....

jcaoloveshine
04-07-2008, 7:16 PM
1. what did you write?
2. how did they get a hold of it?

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 7:17 PM
Talk to a lawyer, not the internet.

I have no money live with my parents and they hate guns. If you lived in england you would be used to this but I was in the clear and it gets taken away in front of me.

SemiAutoSam
04-07-2008, 7:18 PM
How does any LEO make you sign a form ?

They might have asked you to sign the form but they cant make you sign it.

Did they have a gun to your head ?

Read and understand absolutely everything that you put your hand to as everything you sign is a contract.

If you don't understand and agree with it don't sign it



:(Hello I am a 17 year old. A month ago I got sent to a hospital after the authorities got ahold of a story I wrote. It was purely fiction but it was violent enough to get me 5150'd. That means I was under involuntary committal for being a threat to myself and others. They made me sign a form informing me that I could not own a firearm until I am 23. That is unacceptable as I was eager to turn 18 and buy one legally. I wanted a Bushmaster Acr and a 870.

I can challenge the form in court but Its not likely esp. in California that I could win. It might only apply as a state rule in which case I don't want to move anyway. As cool as guns are college is more important.

This is the real kicker.

THE POLICE TOLD ME THAT I HAD COMMITED NO CRIME AND THEY HAD NO GROUNDS FOR ARREST AND I HAVE BEEN PROVEN NOT TO BE A THREAT TO MYSELF OR OTHERS AFTER INTENSE PSYCLOLOGICAL EVALUTATION. IF THE HAD NO GROUNDS FOR ARREST AND I AM NOT A THREAT HOW IS THIS LEGAL?

After learning about the bullet button I was ready to get my first .223 now the bullet button will probably be banned by the time I'm old enough. Bummer. Advice Calguns?:(

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 7:24 PM
1. what did you write?
2. how did they get a hold of it?

I wrote a fake plan for a postal type thing but I wrote it as a parady and after showing it too freinds forgot it existed.

Then my parent found it and called the school It was a stupid *** move on my part and I beat myself up for ever being thick headed enough to write it. I ****ed up and I have no one to blame but myself. I got expelled and I'm just lucky enough to still be able to graduate this year.

The police cleared me and the doctors think I'm fine.

I would never ever do something like that and whats stupid is that that won't stop the real crazies. While I was in the hospital some gangbanger loser tried to offer me a glock .40 I turned him down though.

taloft
04-07-2008, 7:24 PM
As a minor, without parental consent, your signature isn't binding on any legal document. I would contact an attorney about having this removed from your record.

Edit: Nevermine, didn't realize that your parent had a part to play in this.

robairto
04-07-2008, 7:24 PM
I have no money live with my parents and they hate guns. If you lived in england you would be used to this but I was in the clear and it gets taken away in front of me.


Sorry but this story has an added level of stench attached to it. Frankly I don't think any 5150's should have access to firearms and if your story is true then that would include you. I think you should go back to the sock hop and enjoy your last year of school and think of the sunshine and wind in your hair and the hot chicks you should be chasing.

StraightShooter
04-07-2008, 7:27 PM
Dang man, i think you are sol because you signed that form. Try to appeal it of you can but it may get too expensive. If you cant get it reversed just save up your money till you are 23 and learn as much as you can about guns and about what you want to buy/build and im sure by the time you are 23 there will still be plenty of option out there for you.

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 7:27 PM
As a minor, without parental consent, your signature isn't binding on any legal document. I would contact an attorney about having this removed from your record.

Edit: Nevermine, didn't realize that your parent had a part to play in this.

She didn't sign crap though and it wasn't her idea it was state requirements for all cases of this nature be it a crazy guy or some self harmer.

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 7:30 PM
How does any LEO make you sign a form ?

They might have asked you to sign the form but they cant make you sign it.

Did they have a gun to your head ?

Read and understand absolutely everything that you put your hand to as everything you sign is a contract.

If you don't understand and agree with it don't sign it

The hospital made me sign it. The cops never did anything other than watch me for an hour until paramedics escorted me to the hospital. The hospital staff made me sign it and told me if I tried to appeal it then I would stay alot longer.

No charges were ever brought up. The hospital made me sign it not the police. I have a copy of it. Its just one page long and has less than a paragraph of words

StraightShooter
04-07-2008, 7:34 PM
Why did you have to go to a hospital? With Paramedics? Did you injure yourself? Or was this some type of psych ward?

SemiAutoSam
04-07-2008, 7:35 PM
SO what would have the "State" done if you A Minor had not signed the form?

Keep you in their custody forever ?

I would ask for full disclosure of the contract and be made to understand what your signing before you sign it.

This line of thinking could only benefit you.

She didn't sign crap though and it wasn't her idea it was state requirements for all cases of this nature be it a crazy guy or some self harmer.



OK I reread your post from what you have said the Hospital intimidated you into signing it.

You should have taken the time to understand what they made you agree to before you signed the form. As the extra time you served would have been cheaper than the time you wont have a firearm because of what you agreed to when you signed the form.


The hospital made me sign it. The cops never did anything other than watch me for an hour until paramedics escorted me to the hospital. The hospital staff made me sign it and told me if I tried to appeal it then I would stay a lot longer.

No charges were ever brought up. The hospital made me sign it not the police. I have a copy of it. Its just one page long and has less than a paragraph of words

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 7:37 PM
So to recap in a more organized way

The Event
-Miniscule police involvment. I talked to them for an hour at the school. I was never taken to the station. They said no crime had been broken and I was fine
-An hour later I was taken to the hospital for evaluation. I checked out fine.

The Form
-Given to me by hospital staff. Forced to sign by a social worker or else I would spend along time in the hospital fighting it. Or at least thats what they told me. How is that legally binding esp since I'm a minor and even minor felons get their records cleared.

My Life
-I'm going to a new school and will graduate. Life is looking bright and good except for the no gun thing. I intend to fight this.

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 7:40 PM
should have waited it out then.but thats a monday morning quarterback for you.should have read the thing before you signed it

I did read it. It was only a few sentinces long with none of that legal mumbo jumbo. The reason I signed it was because the person who served it wouldn't leave until I did.

It had a box to check to apeal it but that would lead to me staying longer (talking weeks) acourding to their words. It said I could still appeal it at a later date on my own time however.

Got Stuff?
04-07-2008, 7:42 PM
Sorry but this story has an added level of stench attached to it. Frankly I don't think any 5150's should have access to firearms and if your story is true then that would include you. I think you should go back to the sock hop and enjoy your last year of school and think of the sunshine and wind in your hair and the hot chicks you should be chasing.

The problem is that every one of us could write a story that could put us his position. does that automatically mean that we ALL are 5150? If that's the case, I'm sure that there are plenty of 5150 movie directors and writers as well :rolleyes:

DRM6000
04-07-2008, 7:44 PM
talk to a lawyer. i see two things here: 1) you are a minor 2) you signed under duress.

in the future, if you sign a document you are forced into signing, write "signed under duress" on the document.

hey, look at the bright side. you'll have more money to spend on many other things until you're 23. :D

eta: i think what happened to you is bull. you wrote a fiction piece. as long as you did not make any specific references, it's just an essay. where is your freedom of speech?

Bishop
04-07-2008, 7:44 PM
How can a minor sign something even with parental consent, and have it affect them when they become an adult? (18)

They might as well pass around a "no guns for me" form in elementary school, and with parental permission give up their ability to purchase firearms for the rest of their lives!

Don't. Make. No. Sense.

spsellars
04-07-2008, 7:45 PM
How can someone of unsound mind (what they're accusing the OP of being) be of sound enough mind to enter a legally binding contract?

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 7:46 PM
The problem is that every one of us could write a story that could put us his position. does that automatically mean that we ALL are 5150? If that's the case, I'm sure that there are plenty of 5150 movie directors and writers as well :rolleyes:

Thank you. But i am to blame as it was very specific and extremely deadpan.

Diabolus
04-07-2008, 7:47 PM
I think all you can do at this point is move to Canada.

Solidmch
04-07-2008, 7:50 PM
Please talk to a lawyer about your situation. That's the best way it's going to be resolved.

+1 to that.

AS45-70
04-07-2008, 7:50 PM
Talk to a lawyer.

Worse case senario is you have to wait until your 23...thats 5 yrs to save $ and buy all the guns you wanted.

Stanze
04-07-2008, 7:53 PM
Sheesh, In community college in the early 90's, I wrote a story about a guy who goes postal on a schoolyard full of kids.

I got an A or B, can't remember if the A was for the shooting spree story or the story I wrote about digging up a grave, desecrating the corpse and taking home the skull.

...then, there was that paper I wrote on how to build a time bomb.

Anywhoo, my teacher respected the 1st amendment and admired my creativity.

Sorry you got the shaft.

Solidmch
04-07-2008, 7:53 PM
Theres three sides to evry story. Your's, theirs, and what really happend. Talk to a lawyer sir.

tgriffin
04-07-2008, 7:55 PM
Sorry Pepper, but from your statements, you do fit the description and elements of a 5150 W.I.C. ,

You should never own guns, you have proven through your actions (regardless of how you may view it) that you are untrustworthy and cannot be trusted to exercise proper reasoning and judgment, the consequence is that the inherent rights and protection of all citizens requires that you should not bear arms, to which I wholeheartedly agree

In any event, even criminals and 5150 subjects have rights, speak to a lawyer.

This just makes me angry. He didnt hurt anyone, he wasnt serious from the sounds of it. You are no better than the Brady's from what YOU just wrote.

This could have been any one of us. All it takes is allegations. I had a super crazy gf that made such allegations and I wound up taking a trip to be "reviewed" the hospital staff were very nice and very confused about why I was there.

Allegations are all it takes these days.

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 7:57 PM
It was purely fiction but it was way to literal and in the first person and I don't blame them for freaking out. If I was a cop and found it I would want it investigated I would not be able to let that what if ride on my concence.

What I disagree with was that after being found sane and not ever a threat and after showing everyone it was just a story that I can still get the shaft 2nd Amendment wise.

The silver lining here is that I can challenge it and even if I lose when I'm 23 three I can get my ACR my 870 and my 92. To me 23 three seems old but its not really.

gunsnrovers
04-07-2008, 8:02 PM
Aside from the good advice to "talk to the lawyer and not the internet", I was just wondering what the hell you're doing buying a gun when you live at home and have no money. You want the exercise your right to buy a gun, but I think you need get yourself in control of your life first. Besides, you'll probably need all that gun money to get a lawyer to walk you through your other problem.

Richie Rich
04-07-2008, 8:09 PM
Glad I finished school when I did.

My book report on the Stephen King short story "Rage" got me a B+ in my senior english class.
(The story is about a kid who snaps and takes his english class hostage, kills a few of em too).

These days it is a one way trip to the rubber room I guess.

OP, sounds like a crappy situation. I would see if I could scape up the $ to talk to a lawyer about this.

Satex
04-07-2008, 8:12 PM
Sorry but this story has an added level of stench attached to it. Frankly I don't think any 5150's should have access to firearms and if your story is true then that would include you.

So now freedom of expression is banned? In line with your approach, we should ban ALL horror movies writers, producers, directors. Alfred Hitchcock, Roman Polansky should all be banned from gun ownership because of their vivid imagination?

gunsnrovers
04-07-2008, 8:13 PM
Roman Polansky should be banned for raping a girl and fleeing justice... :eek:

Creeping Incrementalism
04-07-2008, 8:15 PM
The reason I signed it was because the person who served it wouldn't leave until I did.

It had a box to check to apeal it but that would lead to me staying longer (talking weeks) acourding to their words. It said I could still appeal it at a later date on my own time however.

A confession given to police directly in exchange for the police giving the inmate something is generally not considered valid, from what I understand. What you signed in this case sounds even less legal, considering in addition to that it was done quid pro quo, but that you are a minor and were probably upset at the time.

I suppose you might as well ask lawyers to see how much it will cost, and then just start saving up money.

Jicko
04-07-2008, 8:16 PM
Go study hard, go do a couple of part-time. Knowledge and money... you both need....

Without knowledge, you will do *stupid* things that get you in trouble.... like your current situation...

Without money.... the law is not in favor of u....

So.... you have to suck it up at your situation...

Too bad..... suck to be you... BUT... YOU are ultimately responsible for doing something *stupid*... so... stop crying....

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 8:21 PM
Thank you all. I will fight this and from what you have said I have a huge amount of grounds to do so.

I have to blame myself for what got me in this but I'm not going to let it stand.

But first academics and living a normal teenage life are far more important than any gun. But its definantly in the top 5.

Thank you all so much for the advice support and plainly the deserving critisism. Once again calguns has been a great resource. I've only posted rarely but I've been a reader for a long time. ;)

Mark in Eureka
04-07-2008, 8:23 PM
First off, if what you said is true, that you were 5150ed, then you were only under observation. If the doctor or staff kicked you loose within three days you should be good to go. So, if you cannot afford to go to a attorney and get a legal ruling, then after you turn 18 use the DOJ program to check your firearm ownership statues. It will cost you about $25, and there are no penelties for a downcheck.

Now if they took you before a judge AND he returned you to protective custody, then Cert was granted and firearms denial is a fact of life. If you wish to own firearms in less that 5 years you will neet to go to court and convince the judge to let you own firearms.

The form you signed is not the vehicle that orders that you may not own a firearm. That is automatic upon being Certified by a judge. That form is so the mental health staff can show that you had been informed about your restriction to firearm ownership.

USN CHIEF
04-07-2008, 8:24 PM
Thank you all. I will fight this and from what you have said I have a huge amount of grounds to do so.

I have to blame myself for what got me in this but I'm not going to let it stand.

But first academics and living a normal teenage life are far more important than any gun. But its definantly in the top 5.

Thank you all so much for the advice support and plainly the deserving critisism. Once again calguns has been a great resource. I've only posted rarely but I've been a reader for a long time. ;)

Well, glad to hear that you are taking it alright.. Worst comes to worst, you will have 5 years to save up alot of money and buy tons of guns when you turn 23... So would you be elgible to join the military if you wanted too after you graduate from HS?

tophatjones
04-07-2008, 8:25 PM
So, can we read it?





j/k :) Talk to a lawyer. Maybe a family friend knows one?

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 8:28 PM
First off, if what you said is true, that you were 5150ed, then you were only under observation. If the doctor or staff kicked you loose within three days you should be good to go. So, if you cannot afford to go to a attorney and get a legal ruling, then after you turn 18 use the DOJ program to check your firearm ownership statues. It will cost you about $25, and there are no penelties for a downcheck.

Now if they took you before a judge AND he returned you to protective custody, then Cert was granted and firearms denial is a fact of life. If you wish to own firearms in less that 5 years you will neet to go to court and convince the judge to let you own firearms.

The form you signed is not the vehicle that orders that you may not own a firearm. That is automatic upon being Certified by a judge. That form is so the mental health staff can show that you had been informed about your restriction to firearm ownership.

No judge was involved at all. I stayed a little longer than three days but that was because of the 5250 which is just so the doctors can cover their *** and doesn't affect me.

So your saying their is a chance I'm allright? If so I should check before going to court. All 5150's get that letter I was told.

mecam
04-07-2008, 8:29 PM
By the time you turn 23, guns will be banned in California. :eek:

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 8:34 PM
Well, glad to hear that you are taking it alright.. Worst comes to worst, you will have 5 years to save up alot of money and buy tons of guns when you turn 23... So would you be elgible to join the military if you wanted too after you graduate from HS?

Yeah I would most likely be able too join if I wanted. I've given it thought but I decided to go to junior college straight from high school and then to film school.

Peppersfan2
04-07-2008, 8:35 PM
By the time you turn 23, guns will be banned in California. :eek:

Not all just semi.

dwtt
04-07-2008, 8:44 PM
Yeah I would most likely be able too join if I wanted. I've given it thought but I decided to go to junior college straight from high school and then to film school.

Join the Marine Corps after you turn 18. You'll be a bit older than the other people in college when you get out, but you'll have a lot more worldly experience and knowledge than the other students who went to college straight out of high school. Plus, you'll also qualify for VA student loans to help pay for school. The only down side to doing this is that after shooting machine guns and grenade launchers for a few years, the semiauto fixed mag rifles we can get here might be no big deal. It's like someone who has parachuted out of an airplane 93 times doesn't find those roller coaster rides at the amusement park exciting anymore.

damon1272
04-07-2008, 8:45 PM
I think that you have some growing up to do and may want to concentrat on being mature enough mentally to own a gun. With gun ownership comes alot of responsiblity. I think you have much more important things to worry about other than decrying the fact that you may not be able to own a gun until 23. I hope I am wrong but your actions seem pretty immature at best. Not trying to dump on you but if you want to handle a gun sooner than 23 I think the federal government may help and give you a free hair cut to boot.

Harrison_Bergeron
04-07-2008, 8:48 PM
Are you sure what you signed was a legal document? Since there were no police, lawyers, or judge involved, just nurses etc, it sounds like maybe it was just a way for the hospital to cover their own "behinds", like a release of liability, so they don't end up all over the news like the ones that the V-Tech shooter went to.

tyrist
04-07-2008, 8:56 PM
Your story does'nt really make any sense. Which usually means we are not getting all the information. This also further means we cannot really give you adivce other than seek an attorney because we don't know all the circumstances.

Just so you understand a 5150 welfare and institutions code hold is not an arrest it's a detention for your own protection. If the letter was infact written a long long time ago you would have not met the criteria unless some other factor existed. It also sounds like this contract you signed is not enforceable but we would have to read it. I am surprised at such a young age you even have any money for firearms. I could'nt even afford to buy anything worthwhile till I was into my 20's. Too bad I could'nt afford to get in before the ban.

damon1272
04-07-2008, 8:57 PM
I think he would be screwed on the fire arms for where the questions ask if you have ever been found 5150.

tyrist
04-07-2008, 9:01 PM
Does not ask if you were ever found 5150. The question is have you ever been adjudicated as mentally incompetant.

Liberty1
04-07-2008, 9:50 PM
1)stop jabber jawing here and contact http://www.thefire.org/ your situation may not apply as you weren't in school or maybe that is where you wrote this?

2)Join the Marines and come back here in say...4 years.

chow baby

yallknowho
04-07-2008, 10:04 PM
Sorry but this story has an added level of stench attached to it. Frankly I don't think any 5150's should have access to firearms and if your story is true then that would include you. I think you should go back to the sock hop and enjoy your last year of school and think of the sunshine and wind in your hair and the hot chicks you should be chasing.

I agree. last thing we need is another cho. why would the guy even joke about "going postal?"

yallknowho
04-07-2008, 10:04 PM
only a mentally incompetent person would write a story about them going crazy killing people. this guy doesn't need guns.

mymonkeyman
04-07-2008, 10:06 PM
You really need a lawyer. Try talking to your local legal aid or ask for a referral from the local public defender's office. If they can't help you and you can't afford one now, save up for when you are 18.

Riodog
04-07-2008, 10:12 PM
Does not ask if you were ever found 5150. The question is have you ever been adjudicated as mentally incompetant.

As I'm known for my rudeness I'm calling BS to this whole scenario. It strikes me as our young film student is using us in his quest for a decent grade in "Law Drama 101".

Junior, your answers appear too well rehearsed for that of anyone thought to be a candidate for a 5150 hold. A BS story written a few years ago doesn't constitute compelling evidence of your mental state. Your mom may have called the school but that doesn't get you held for evaluation. Who signed the complaint? What PROFESSIONAL would put his career on the line for a BS fictional essay? An ambulance driver can't take you into custody. Your use of the codes 5150, 5250, etc., leave more room for research on your part.

The law is very specific in regards to a 5150 cert. There are too many civil penalties for anyone involved to shortcut the procedures. You didn't mention anything about a school psychiatrist, psychologist, treating physician, etc. There was nothing of a legal nature in any part of your tale. Are you sure your parents didn't just get sick of your fertile imagination and have your own Dr. sign a cert to have you checked out?

No matter what transpired, I am positive that you shouldn't be allowed to have a weapon that shoots anything other that foam rubber bullets.
Rio

fairfaxjim
04-07-2008, 11:28 PM
Without seeing what was signed, this whole thread is never going anywhere. If you want to provide us with the wording on what you signed, maybe someone can offer some meaningful advice. Otherwise, I'm not sure you have a clue what the hell you signed. I read the whole thread and I sure don't.

To be banned from owning a firearm, there are specific things that have to have occurred. I haven't read anything here that indicates any of those things happend to completion. It almost sounds like your parents had the hospital or Dr. make you sign a bogus form so your sorry *** wouldn't be dragging any guns into their house, making them worry about how real your "fiction" was.

You would be better served using the time you are moaning on here to do some real research on what legal services are available to you, given your limited resorces, and then making use of them.

If you do end up owning guns in the future, keep in mind that such ownership can be the basis for escalation of consequences for behavior that would otherwise be ignored. I suggest you read through all of the threads on here about BWO's experiences. You don't have to be wrong to be wronged.

buff_01
04-07-2008, 11:59 PM
I agree with others, you need to talk to a lawyer. It sounds like they made you sign that contract under duress which would invalidate it.

Mr. Mildot
04-08-2008, 12:07 AM
I wrote a fake plan for a postal type thing but I wrote it as a parady and after showing it too freinds forgot it existed.

In this day and age that's like yelling "fire" in a crowded theater or "joking around" about having a bomb in your bag at SFO.

There might be something wrong with you if put stuff like that on paper, weather or not it warrants the situation you're in seems to be a question for the doctors, the legal system and your legal council to figure out.

DedEye
04-08-2008, 2:31 AM
You may want to contact the ACLU and see if they are willing to help you on the grounds of violation of Due Process.

DedEye
04-08-2008, 2:35 AM
In this day and age that's like yelling "fire" in a crowded theater or "joking around" about having a bomb in your bag at SFO.

There might be something wrong with you if put stuff like that on paper, weather or not it warrants the situation you're in seems to be a question for the doctors, the legal system and your legal council to figure out.

+1. I'm all for freedom of speech, but with that freedom comes responsibility. You're free to write a "parody" story as long as you can accept the consequences that go along with it.

Nonetheless, if you were as railroaded as you claimed, it certainly doesn't hurt to fight it.

aileron
04-08-2008, 6:48 AM
Wait a minute, if he is 17 IIRC he is not legally bound by his signature; not to mention what form is this, and is the form legally binding? Get a copy of the form, and see if its created by the state, or is the hospital creating the form.

Talk to a lawyer, and get a copy of what it is you signed.

Scarecrow Repair
04-08-2008, 7:47 AM
1. Stop using the phrase "... forced me to sign it." Nobody "forced" you. They did not hold your hand and move your fingers. You made a mistake by letting them intimidate you into signing a legal document you did not understand. You screwed up there, and you need to accept that by stop saying "forced". It's like the 12 steps -- as long as you refuse to accept that you made a mistake, as long as you blame somebody else for "forcing" you to do something stupid, you will never get anywhere.

2. Get a lawyer. If you aren't old enough to do that on your own and your parents won't help, try legal aid groups, but I don't know if they will help much. You may just have to wait until you are 18. You made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. We differentiate ourselves in how we deal with them.

3. Stop asking for advice here. You keep asking for answers you can't get and don't listen to the answers you do get.

Danield
04-08-2008, 8:10 AM
Didnt he say that the "story" was very detailed and included himself and other real people. if he wrote a story about himself killing other people, by name, at a real place, then maybe he is a bit on the nutty side. a fictional story is about fictional people. if you wrote out a plan on who you were going to off, well the whole fictional story line doesnt work anymore.
:7:
:nuts:

scootergmc
04-08-2008, 8:46 AM
This thread has so much wrong with it I don't know where to start shoveling the feces....

p7m8jg
04-08-2008, 9:11 AM
Checkout 8102 & 8103 Welfare & Institutions Code on involuntary commitments to a mental health facility and the 5 year prohibition after being released.

Also note that if you voluntarily commit yourself, it seems the prohibition only lasts while you're committed to the facility.

But yes, the over-riding concern is to talk to a lawyer...sooner rather than later.

FatOnCoke
04-08-2008, 9:56 AM
From reading this thread, I don't think you should own any weapons!

yellowfin
04-08-2008, 10:23 AM
1. Stop using the phrase "... forced me to sign it." Nobody "forced" you. They did not hold your hand and move your fingers. You made a mistake by letting them intimidate you into signing a legal document you did not understand. You screwed up there, and you need to accept that by stop saying "forced". It's like the 12 steps -- as long as you refuse to accept that you made a mistake, as long as you blame somebody else for "forcing" you to do something stupid, you will never get anywhere.
Actually he can claim duress which is a valid legal argument for nullifying anything signed.

Adonlude
04-08-2008, 11:05 AM
I must disagree with those in support of the OP based on free speech rights. We limit the rights of minors for very good reasons. We don't let them buy alcohol or cigarettes for both developmental reasons and because we don't want them getting carried away before fully understanding possibilities of death and addiction. We don't let them buy porn becuase we don't want them growing up thinking love is merely a combination of pretzel positions and facials. I have no problem prohibiting school age minors from writing about murder and massacre. Some ideas just should not be fostered or explored outside the mind of an experienced mature adult.

If you are not a mature enough minor to know that you should not be writing even fake massacre plans in your environment then I think you need a few years of maturing before you should be buying guns. Wait until you are 23 or even older. Buy some air guns for now and have some fun.

SigShooter
04-08-2008, 11:43 AM
I must disagree with those in support of the OP based on free speech rights. We limit the rights of minors for very good reasons. We don't let them buy alcohol or cigarettes for both developmental reasons and because we don't want them getting carried away before fully understanding possibilities of death and addiction. We don't let them buy porn becuase we don't want them growing up thinking love is merely a combination of pretzel positions and facials. I have no problem prohibiting school age minors from writing about murder and massacre. Some ideas just should not be fostered or explored outside the mind of an experienced mature adult.

If you are not a mature enough minor to know that you should not be writing even fake massacre plans in your environment then I think you need a few years of maturing before you should be buying guns. Wait until you are 23 or even older. Buy some air guns for now and have some fun.

Seriously?!?

How can you compare the Bill of Rights to buying cigarettes, alcohol and porn? This kid, young adult if you will, was exercising his FIRST AMENDMENT rights. Not trying to go out and be the next Klebold, Harris or Cho.

The restrictions on the items you listed are fairly recent and are wrought from a Government intent on turning us all into mindless drones. Which sounds exactly like what you would have todays youth turn into. Stories like his are no safer in the mind of an experienced adult than they are in the most juvenile infant. (remember Gian Luigi Ferri, Patrick Purdy, George Hennard?)

Without creativity and imagination in todays youth we would never have another Rembrandt, Poe, Dickens, Coppola... too many more to list.

I can not believe how many of you are so "gung-ho" on a zero compromise 2nd Amendment, but are willing to obfuscate the 1st. Please, PLEASE remember Our Second Protects Their Nine.

Smokeybehr
04-08-2008, 11:59 AM
only a mentally incompetent person would write a story about them going crazy killing people. this guy doesn't need guns.

Why are you being such an a**hole? If this guy is mentally incompetent for writing a story about killing people, then every action and horror film/book writer/producer/director is just as mentally incompetent.

BLACKWATER
04-08-2008, 12:14 PM
MOVE TO A DIFFERENT STATE. You will be fine that way.:51:

hawk1
04-08-2008, 12:46 PM
MOVE TO A DIFFERENT STATE. You will be fine that way.:51:

Not sure if that would help. Didn't congress pass something recently to answer what happened at Virginia Tech allowing states to cross reference each other for mental deficiency? Can't recall the bill name right now.

bruss01
04-08-2008, 12:57 PM
Kid wrote a story. Admittedly a dark fantasy, but anyone care to tell me what Stephen King and Robin Cook and even HP Lovecraft were imagining and writing about at age 15? Maybe they had a rough draft they stuck away in their sock drawer and forgot about for a few weeks/months/couple years? Fortunately for them, they didn't live in the uber-paranoid world we live in today.

Nothing signed by a minor is legally binding, especially if done under duress and without the benefit of legal counsel. IMHO this guy has legs to stand on if he makes a legal challenge on his 18th birthday.

Oh, and Mom & Dad? Sorry, but the day I turned 18 I would be gone baby gone. Don't expect to hear from me on Thanksgiving, Christmas or birthdays. No phone number and no forwarding address. That kind of betrayal cuts to the bone. Inheritance and "happy family" Christmas I can live without - but I won't have anything to do with people who stab me in the back.

I have been "forced" to sign a document by an employer as a condition of my continued employment. I did so, noting at the bottom "signed under duress, threat of job loss". At that point, they have a "signed" document that is absolutely worthless in any kind of legal sense. Note that this was not a condition of an acceptance of an offer of employment, it was merely to retain my existing job that I'd had for years. It WILL NOT hold up in court. No one ever challenged my "duress" notation, they just wanted a "signed" form on file. The same thing would probably have worked here.

StukaJr
04-08-2008, 1:19 PM
MOVE TO A DIFFERENT STATE. You will be fine that way.:51:

Did you miss "Federal" part of the "FFL" abbreviation?


If you are not a mature enough minor to know that you should not be writing even fake massacre plans in your environment then I think you need a few years of maturing before you should be buying guns. Wait until you are 23 or even older. Buy some air guns for now and have some fun.

Ummm, you've just undermined creative and artistic freedom of expression - practically, the cornerstone of the 1st Amendment... Never mind, the Screenwriter's Guild would love to enter into the clause that any writer working on about any modern TV or movie drama should be committed, declared danger to themselves and have their rights stripped away.

Being of artistic standing, I've heavily experimented with various art mediums - taking a detour into some rather noir and bleak stuff, all when I was still a minor... It all depends on the parents' reaction - choose they medicate an "abnormal" child and deal with decades of undoing the damage in the adult years, declare a minor mentally unfit for exploring their creative writing - or remember their own stupid crap they've done and grew out of... I'd hate to think that my early school imitations of "Detective Novel" styled comic book covers would mess with continuation of education, getting a corporate job or unrestricted travels...

Peppersfan2 - if your parents played a major role in the above, I'd move out and move somewhere where they can't screw up your life any more... You can learn from your mistakes - you cannot learn from the mistakes your parents push you into "for your protection"... Stifling personal growth is the worst mistake a parent can do - maybe a few Thanksgivings away will be a good eye opener to everybody... This is my opinion and it has nothing to do with firearms.

And talk to a lawyer.

gunn
04-08-2008, 1:20 PM
1. Stop using the phrase "... forced me to sign it." Nobody "forced" you. They did not hold your hand and move your fingers. You made a mistake by letting them intimidate you into signing a legal document you did not understand. You screwed up there, and you need to accept that by stop saying "forced". It's like the 12 steps -- as long as you refuse to accept that you made a mistake, as long as you blame somebody else for "forcing" you to do something stupid, you will never get anywhere.

2. Get a lawyer. If you aren't old enough to do that on your own and your parents won't help, try legal aid groups, but I don't know if they will help much. You may just have to wait until you are 18. You made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. We differentiate ourselves in how we deal with them.

3. Stop asking for advice here. You keep asking for answers you can't get and don't listen to the answers you do get.


Why fight it? The expense of fighting this legal battle would buy you plenty of guns when you are 23.
If you do for some reason find someone willing to take your case on pro bono, think of the impact to society.

Will the world benefit from you owning a firearm 5 years early? Probably not.
That atty's pro bono efforts would likely be better placed working on a more deserving case.

In the 5 years between when you can buy your much desired firearms, I'm sure you'll find plenty of other things to spend your money on. Unless you are rediculiously rich (which I suspect you aren't b/c you are asking us clowns here for legal advice instead of finding your own legal counsel), your limited college kids funds could be spent on PLENTY of other activities: women, beer, snowboarding, liquor, cars, women, etc.

If you insist on going the mall ninja route, I'm sure you can spend just as much money on paintball or airsoft "guns" that pose a far less severe potential threat to society. I'm sure there are people who spend crazy money on Leopold optics for their 6mm plastic bbgun. That person could be you and five years from now you can transfer the optics to your "real" rifle when you come of age.

Over the next 5 years, your interests will likely change dramatically. 10 years ago, I wanted a Civic that was an inch off the ground, yellow, with a condor sized cheeze grater spoiler (thank god I never indulged this desire). 5 years ago, I wanted an Audi with dual-color suede seats and twin turbos. Now, I still have the Audi but I'm just as happy driving my beater commuter car.

-g

PS. Finally, if you insist on shooting a "real" firearm, there's a war going on. You could always enlist and shoot things, people, whatever there.

mymonkeyman
04-08-2008, 1:33 PM
Can people please stop talking about challenging the form? The form was an acknowledgment, not a contract (notice the complete lack of consideration). It had no legal effect itself except to give notice. If his firearms rights were taken away, it was not by signing the form but by other legal actions. Either way, the OP needs to talk to a lawyer no matter what. CA state law firearms disabling actions and Federal firearms disabling actions interact in complex ways. Things that may be a temporary ban under one can be a lifetime ban under the other. For example, he needs to talk to a lawyer to see if he can legally check the "No" box on the 4473 which asks if he has been adjudicated a mental defective. Obviously a lot happened behind the scenes that he did not know about and without a lawyer he probably won't find out enough to know if he can legally own firearms.

With regards to the first amendment issues, the OP has not given nearly enough information to make any sensible analysis (not to mention he is probably slightly biased). The determination of whether or not his writing would be protected would depend on a number of factors like who and how it was disseminated, what the writing actually contained in detailed specifics (did it talk about unlawful acts against specific people and a specific place, or just generally, was it obivous from the face of it that it was a work of ficiton, etc.).

bohoki
04-08-2008, 4:26 PM
Can people please stop talking about challenging the form? The form was an acknowledgment, not a contract (notice the complete lack of consideration). It had no legal effect itself except to give notice. If his firearms rights were taken away, it was not by signing the form but by other legal actions. Either way, the OP needs to talk to a lawyer no matter what. CA state law firearms disabling actions and Federal firearms disabling actions interact in complex ways. Things that may be a temporary ban under one can be a lifetime ban under the other. For example, he needs to talk to a lawyer to see if he can legally check the "No" box on the 4473 which asks if he has been adjudicated a mental defective. Obviously a lot happened behind the scenes that he did not know about and without a lawyer he probably won't find out enough to know if he can legally own firearms.

With regards to the first amendment issues, the OP has not given nearly enough information to make any sensible analysis (not to mention he is probably slightly biased). The determination of whether or not his writing would be protected would depend on a number of factors like who and how it was disseminated, what the writing actually contained in detailed specifics (did it talk about unlawful acts against specific people and a specific place, or just generally, was it obivous from the face of it that it was a work of ficiton, etc.).

it may have been a court settlement and his consideration is lack of charges being filed for giving up firearms rights so it may be a voidable contract setlement cant tell though from lack of seeing the form

hope he has a copy because i bet even if he waits till he is 30 the first dros he attempts will come back denied it seems the state doesnt ever remove anybody the person has to activly get their rights back

mymonkeyman
04-08-2008, 4:42 PM
it may have been a court settlement and his consideration is lack of charges being filed for giving up firearms rights so it may be a voidable contract setlement cant tell though from lack of seeing the form

hope he has a copy because i bet even if he waits till he is 30 the first dros he attempts will come back denied it seems the state doesnt ever remove anybody the person has to activly get their rights back

If it was a plea agreement, he would have to show up in court in front of a judge, answer lots of questions that make sure he understands what he is pleading to, that he is guilty, that he understands he has a right to a trial, that he has consulted with an attorney or been provided an opportunity to do so, etc. etc.

LECTRIKHED
04-08-2008, 7:10 PM
I remember some stuff like that happening when I was in highschool to some kids I knew. One guy who drew comic books was taken to the psychologists because of the violent images.

There is also the other chance that you are leaving a lot of details out. My stepbrother did some pretty crazy ****e in highschool, even landed in the hospital. He was never taken in on a 5150.

cbn620
04-09-2008, 1:08 AM
Sorry but this story has an added level of stench attached to it. Frankly I don't think any 5150's should have access to firearms and if your story is true then that would include you. I think you should go back to the sock hop and enjoy your last year of school and think of the sunshine and wind in your hair and the hot chicks you should be chasing.

I find that statement unfair. I don't know this person and can't say for sure if they're mentally competent enough to be trusted with the ownership of a firearm, or any dangerous object for that matter. But regardless, we hold the Bill of Rights to be according to certain natural laws. We consider documents like the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution to be unalienable natural rights, not created by man but created by nature. Among these, the right to free speech (I), the right to bear arms (II), the right to be secure in ones person (IV) and the right to be free from unfair legal entanglements (V).

All four of these natural rights have been violated, and it would be extremely close-minded to just assume this person is a "crazy" and does not deserve the right to bear arms.

It's extremely dangerous territory when a simple label such as "5150" can so immediately destroy a person's life, denying them fundamental unalienable rights and their life, liberty and/or pursuit of happiness. If this can happen to a person as this person describes, it can happen to any of us. We can pick nits all day and say we wouldn't ever do something so irresponsible as to write something violent, but we'd be ignorant to say that. The definition of "violent" and "unacceptable" literature will constantly change, but the right to free speech should not. Everyone has the right to write or speak their mind, within reason. So long as this literature was not a threat or libelous, it is--or should be-- protected by the first amendment.

I'm sorry if I seem rude in saying this, but I just don't think it's fair to completely throw any person to the wolves without first considering the irreparable consequences and all extenuating circumstances. This person could be us. To defend his rights is to defend our own.

Nick5811
04-09-2008, 1:49 AM
So even though this does sound somewhat trollish, I've gotta throw my POV on this situation in the ring too. Too many of you are wrapped around the axle about things you obviously don't understand. The fact that he's 17 or that he signed the paper are completely irrelevant.

1) To lend creedence to what I'm saying, I frequently deal with mentally disturbed individuals.

2) A W&I 5150 is a 3 day psychiatric hold to evaluate the mental condition of someone who is a danger to themselves, others, or by reason of mental illness gravely disabled.

3) Police officers, Psychiatrists, Psychologists, some social workers and Paramedics can evaluate someone to see if they meet the criteria. If they feel that the person is a danger the "hold" is established and is legally binding.

4) A W&I 5250 is a 14 day (extension) version of a 5150 hold.

5) the form in question is ***NOT*** a contract. If I had one right now I'd scan it so you can all see it.

It is an ADVISEMENT form (carbon copy) that proves the person was told 'you can't have a gun'. A copy is mailed to DOJ showing that the person was judged mentally incompetent and shouldn't have a firearm. There is another form (also a carbon copy) that tells the person they have the right to have a hearing regarding their ability to own firearms. This hearing can be done upon release from the facility or afterward. There are check-boxes for the person to indicate their choice.

Wikipedia also breaks it down pretty good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(Involuntary_psychiatric_hold)


6) The military does not allow persons who have been placed on 5150's in, and kicks out those who are placed on them...just like LEO's. Same thing goes for domestic violence (lautenberg act).


In short, to the OP; have your hearing and see what you can do. We all did bone-head things when we were 17. If you didn't then you have no integrity and you should seriously stop lying to yourself.

To everyone else; chill out. Geez. :p

Here's a list of ways you can stop owning guns: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/sb950frm1107.pdf

***This form explains everything to everyone***: http://www.mabpro.com/resource/docs/cal_firearmsProhibitionForm.pdf

SemiAutoSam
04-09-2008, 8:17 AM
If the form has a place for your signature on it its a contract pure and simple.

5) the form in question is ***NOT*** a contract.

Army
04-09-2008, 9:56 AM
Turn 18, go buy rifle. Nothing the hospital made you sign is binding for Lautenberg or the VT inspired legislations. You must be judged by a court to be mentally deficient, not simply sign some hospital document as a minor.

No police action, other than an interview. No court action whatsoever. No adjudication to a mental institute.

No case against you.

I'm no lawyer, but the facts must add up before any of your rights can be taken away.

E Pluribus Unum
04-09-2008, 10:39 AM
Turn 18, go buy rifle. Nothing the hospital made you sign is binding for Lautenberg or the VT inspired legislations. You must be judged by a court to be mentally deficient, not simply sign some hospital document as a minor.

No police action, other than an interview. No court action whatsoever. No adjudication to a mental institute.

No case against you.

I'm no lawyer, but the facts must add up before any of your rights can be taken away.

California Law prohibits any person who has been admitted to a mental facility from purchasing firearms.

A 5150 hold is exactly that; a hold. If an officer has probable cause to believe you are a danger to yourself or others he can hold you and take you to a mental ward. If a doctor determines that you ARE a danger to yourself or others they will admit you to the hospital. At that point you lose the ability to purchase firearms under California law.

mymonkeyman
04-09-2008, 11:13 AM
If the form has a place for your signature on it its a contract pure and simple.

Whether something requires a signature is orthogonal to whether it is a contract. In this case, it is clearly an acknowledgment, not a contract. A contract requires: Offer, Acceptance, Consideration, Capacity, and Legality. The form at issue lacked almost all of those. It's not a contract.

Riodog
04-09-2008, 11:52 AM
Are you all forgetting that he stated that he has not been adjudicated by any court, and/or has not been cert? Has not been represented by an attorney nor seen by a judge.
If this infact happened, it almost appears to be an elaborate hoax perped by his folks for some reason.
Rio

Peppersfan2
04-09-2008, 3:04 PM
Well things just took a turn for the worse.

a 5150 only prohibits me from firearms under CA law for five years.

I was also kept a few more days under a 5250.

Under CA law that means jack ****

Under Federal law I cannot own a firearm for LIFE!!!. I am also banned from being a LEO or joining the armed forces


What I wrote was a story in a deadpan manner that talked about killing other people that could be seen as a threat. I wrote it as a way to let off some steam in the corse of 20 minutes in class. d

I put it in my backpack and forgot about it until my parents searced my room However due to incidents like Vtech and all the other shootings it was taken more seriousilly.

Instead of asking me about it my parent waited a week doing nothing and called her own therapist who told her to call the school who in turn called the cops.

This raises a few questions and statements.

1.Can I challenge this and get it negated?

2.The staff admited to me that 5250's are only to cover their own ***. I would have been fine to go home except they wanted to keep me incase I was crazy and went through with it so they could say "well we kept him for several days"

3.I have never had to deal with this. I have never had any mental disorders or taken any medication. This was a first offense for something I couldn't be legally arrested for. I have been a good student and have never been in trouble with the law ever before this.

4.Under the logic of a 5150 a 12 year old could threaten to kill someone and be banned from guns for life. I'm a ****ing minor!

5.This is nothing more than being treated like a felon without a felon activity. I can't get a gun join the army or be a LEO they are also checking my search activity even though no crime was commited. All they need to complete it is void my right to vote and tell employers about me.

I don't fit any ****ing profile and I have no history of violence or anguish! It was a one paragraph story I wrote in english in my free time cause I was stressed!

I don't feel like a person right now. Rights are inherit not given. You can say its what I deserve but their is a world of difference between writing a story and beating up your wife or stealing a car.

The problem with a 5150 and a 5250 is that its not a one size fits all. And with our rights they treat it like that.

As a minor with this on my record I am just a few rights away from not having any benefit from being an American citizen.

Peppersfan2
04-09-2008, 3:10 PM
I did some research and their is one posible hope.

The brady's helped pass a bill that the NRA opposed. Hold on I know...

However under this law when it goes into affect their is a chance for 5250 pateints to appeal. The rest of it is typical anti gun bullcrap but that window for whatever reason it is their might be my only hope.

Paradiddle
04-09-2008, 3:17 PM
Why on earth are you asking for help on the internet? Get a lawyer.

StraightShooter
04-09-2008, 3:23 PM
Heres my advice........ just give up.

SunriseF150
04-09-2008, 3:31 PM
Wait so first you tells us you were held for like an hour. Now you tell us your were held for a few days? So what else would you like to tell us that you missed before?

Here is your advice, that others have been telling you also. GO GET A LAWYER.

mymonkeyman
04-09-2008, 3:32 PM
A 5250 allows them to hold the person for up to 14 more days after the 72 hour hold, but there must be a judicial hearing within 4 days of the hold. If a person got 5250'ed but released before the 4 days, they might have not had a judicial hearing and therefore not been "adjudicated" a mental defective. On the other hand, there may have been a court hearing or the BATF/DOJ might adopt some ridiculous interpretation of adjudicated. Court cases interpreting what is a "involuntary commitment" are all over the place, with some saying any temporary hold against your will is an involuntary commitment, while as others defer to the state legislature's classification of the commitment and the process involved. This is why I keep saying a million times why a lawyer is so important in these kind of cases.

Paradiddle
04-09-2008, 3:52 PM
One more comment. There is obviously so much more to this story that we are not being told. I'm a parent. If I found a story written by one of my boys we'd have a conversation first. If I felt there were issues, we'd go see a councilor TOGETHER. There would be no need to involve the police or the school until my wife and I were out of options and then, and ONLY then if we felt it was a HUGE problem. That is a serious step that obviously has long term repurcussions - I find it hard to believe your parents just did it out of the blue.

It sounds like there is some history with you and violence that you aren't sharing and that your parents could be reaching for anything they think will help you - perhaps you aren't ready to own a firearm.

mymonkeyman
04-09-2008, 4:40 PM
One more comment. There is obviously so much more to this story that we are not being told. I'm a parent. If I found a story written by one of my boys we'd have a conversation first. If I felt there were issues, we'd go see a councilor TOGETHER. There would be no need to involve the police or the school until my wife and I were out of options and then, and ONLY then if we felt it was a HUGE problem. That is a serious step that obviously has long term repurcussions - I find it hard to believe your parents just did it out of the blue.

It sounds like there is some history with you and violence that you aren't sharing and that your parents could be reaching for anything they think will help you - perhaps you aren't ready to own a firearm.

On the other hand, you'd be surprised how many bad and over-reactionary parents are out there.

Peppersfan2
04-09-2008, 5:16 PM
Wait so first you tells us you were held for like an hour. Now you tell us your were held for a few days? So what else would you like to tell us that you missed before?

Here is your advice, that others have been telling you also. GO GET A LAWYER.

I was held by the police for an hour and the hospital for several days. You misread me.

Mr. Mildot
04-09-2008, 5:19 PM
http://i1.tinypic.com/s26yko.jpg

G17GUY
04-09-2008, 5:23 PM
Your Mom must have been really worried, why do you think she went to her therapist without asking you about the note? You have a history?

Nick5811
04-09-2008, 5:54 PM
The forms in question are:

"Mental Health Facilities Report of Firearms Prohibition" form FD 4009A;

"Patient Notification of Firearms Prohibition and Right to Hearing" form FD 4009B (the one some of you people keep saying is a 'contract' that is not legally binding because he's 17);

and

"Request for Hearing for Relief from Firearms Prohibition" form FD 4009C.

Form 4009B states:

"Pursuant to Welfare and Institutions Code (WIC) section 8103(f), this mental health facility is required to provide notification that you are prohibited from owning, possessing, receiving, or purchasing any firearm for a period of five years from the admission date to theis facility. This aplies to all persons taken into custody as a danger to themselves or others under the provisions of WIC section 5150."

There are two sets of check boxes where the person subject to the form chooses whether to have a hearing or not, and when they would like it done.

You sign at the bottom indicating that you have been advised.


Like I said before, this is not a negotiable thing...it is a state law codified in the welfare and institutions code; just like Homicide is in the penal code and drunk driving is in the vehicle code.

Further, the 5250 hold CERTIFIES the 5150 hold as completely legitimate.


I only know because I am one of those people allowed by the state to place them.

SemiAutoSam
04-09-2008, 5:57 PM
And what is the outcome if you dont sign?

The forms in question are:

"Mental Health Facilities Report of Firearms Prohibition" form FD 4009A;

"Patient Notification of Firearms Prohibition and Right to Hearing" form FD 4009B (the one some of you people keep saying is a 'contract' that is not legally binding because he's 17);

and

"Request for Hearing for Relief from Firearms Prohibition" form FD 4009C.

Form 4009B states:

"Pursuant to Welfare and Institutions Code (WIC) section 8103(f), this mental health facility is required to provide notification that you are prohibited from owning, possessing, receiving, or purchasing any firearm for a period of five years from the admission date to theis facility. This aplies to all persons taken into custody as a danger to themselves or others under the provisions of WIC section 5150."

There are two sets of check boxes where the person subject to the form chooses whether to have a hearing or not, and when they would like it done.

You sign at the bottom indicating that you have been advised.


Like I said before, this is not a negotiable thing...it is a state law codified in the welfare and institutions code; just like Homicide is in the penal code and drunk driving is in the vehicle code.

Further, the 5250 hold CERTIFIES the 5150 hold as completely legitimate.


I only know because I am one of those people allowed by the state to place them.

Nick5811
04-09-2008, 6:38 PM
And what is the outcome if you dont sign?

The prohibition is in place as soon as the 5150 is placed (even verbally).

This is before the form is even placed in front of you, regardless of your willingness to sign. You could write "Eat feces and die" on it and it would still be maintained as a legal document. It definitely won't help your case if you do that however.

Think of it like a traffic ticket;

If you refuse to sign it, the ticket doesn't disappear...

A citation is used in lieu of a physical arrest, so if you don't either promise to appear as required or pay the bail amount (by signing), you can be booked into the local jail until the judge can see you and determine your guilt or innocence.

Riodog
04-09-2008, 9:21 PM
"Police officers, Psychiatrists, Psychologists, some social workers and Paramedics can evaluate someone to see if they meet the criteria. If they feel that the person is a danger the "hold" is established and is legally binding."

While I doubt that any police officers, or paramedics would cert that I'M a few cards short of a full deck, I'm not too enthused about some liberal 'social worker' being able to have me incarcerated with no recourse on my part and severe damage done to my reputation, record, life.

His MOM went to her THERAPIST.:confused:..HHUUMMM, maybe there is some deepseated inherited mental condition. Almost sounds like a flawed gene pool to me.:eek:
Rio

scootergmc
04-09-2008, 9:41 PM
We need a beat self with hammer emoticon for this thread.

1919_4_ME
04-09-2008, 9:49 PM
You dont happen to look like this do you?:chris:



http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8656/silenceofthelambsfv5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

fairfaxjim
04-09-2008, 10:14 PM
You dont happen to look like this do you?:chris:



http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8656/silenceofthelambsfv5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Yeah, I do. How did you know? Damn, that's spooky!:D

pullnshoot25
04-09-2008, 10:42 PM
I agree. last thing we need is another cho. why would the guy even joke about "going postal?"

I joke about that stuff all the time, I just don't say "going postal." I joke about that stuff with my mom all the time, she just laughs about it.

pullnshoot25
04-09-2008, 10:43 PM
The prohibition is in place as soon as the 5150 is placed (even verbally).

This is before the form is even placed in front of you, regardless of your willingness to sign. You could write "Eat feces and die" on it and it would still be maintained as a legal document. It definitely won't help your case if you do that however.

Think of it like a traffic ticket;

If you refuse to sign it, the ticket doesn't disappear...

A citation is used in lieu of a physical arrest, so if you don't either promise to appear as required or pay the bail amount (by signing), you can be booked into the local jail until the judge can see you and determine your guilt or innocence.

Don't forget written trials by declaration... I have gotten out of or helped others get out of 6 tickets using that, one of them being a red light camera ticket.

pullnshoot25
04-09-2008, 10:44 PM
By the time you turn 23, guns will be banned in California. :eek:

All 3 of my brothers have been telling me that about when I turned 18 since I was 16 and then again until I turned 21... how true most of the stuff has become!

Pointcrossed
04-09-2008, 10:57 PM
I think that you have some growing up to do and may want to concentrat on being mature enough mentally to own a gun. With gun ownership comes alot of responsiblity. I think you have much more important things to worry about other than decrying the fact that you may not be able to own a gun until 23. I hope I am wrong but your actions seem pretty immature at best. Not trying to dump on you but if you want to handle a gun sooner than 23 I think the federal government may help and give you a free hair cut to boot.

I could not say it better myself ;)

Army
04-10-2008, 12:41 AM
So he wrote a story about a violent act. So has Mickey Spillane, Gene Roddenberry, a few guys that penned the Bible etc.

Where's the ACLU now and freedom of expression?

cbn620
04-10-2008, 3:57 AM
If we allow anyone to regulate just who gets to have guns, eventually we get to the point where new definitions are being made to deny even more people the right to bear arms.

I don't like the idea of taking guns away from anyone who's had any history with mental illness. I don't like the idea of blacklisting people with titles like "5150" and whatnot. I've known people who've been picked up on 5150 who were not crazy, just got into something which led to some rather nasty domestic disputes. Cops get called, person gets labeled a crazy for screaming too loud, boom, 5150. Simply being picked up on 5150 should not deny anyone any of their rights, especially since a 5150 is not an indication of a person being insane.

This isn't behavior that hurts us, the behavior that hurts us are the people who let fear mongering get to them. That's all this is is fear mongering. So some punk kid writes a violent story. Oh, but Seung Hui Cho killed all those people, what if he's one of them?

If he is some kind of crazy bent on killing a bunch of people like in the story he wrote, do you really think he's going to get his gun legally? Let's be logical here.

I'm not defending the rights of dangerous people to own firearms. I'm defending people like us from being ostracized and black listed for exercising our free speech. If exercising free speech results in you losing your rights, we've got a serious problem.

His violent story could be tomorrow some of your guys' signatures. Or mine! Oh dear Lord, do you see those crossed rifles in my signature with "In Hoc Signo Vinces" next to it? Am I implying that we conquer in the name of crossed rifles? Oh my word, my avatar displays the Pall Mall cigarette logo, and you know only crazies smoke cigarettes.

It's not this particular case that begs the question. This is just a drop in the bucket. But we have to start realizing that government regulation of this sort is not keeping anybody safe. And if we'd give up personal liberties just to buy some temporary freedom, do we deserve any freedom in the first place?

I personally will not give one inch of anyone's freedom to the government. Even if it makes me seem like a crazy person, even if this person seems like they're a "part of the problem", even if the case is somewhat controversial. I believe in certain natural rights and it would be absolutely unethical of me to assume any person should have their rights taken away from them for exercising freedom of speech.

As a foot note, if we're going to start institutionalizing people for writing moderately violent stories, 90% of all authors need to be in prison.

Z ME FLY
04-10-2008, 9:00 AM
Uhhh I didn't read all 12 pages of this but I read the 1st page... If anyone is making up stories about going "postal" and killing a bunch of people, I for one am glad you aren't going to be able to have a rifle or handgun... But that's just me, because if I knew one of my friends was "joking around about being postal" and wanted to buy a rifle even if he was joking around about his story, I would be worried....

SVT-40
04-10-2008, 11:03 AM
It sound like EVERY adult WHO KNOWS WHAT HE REALLY SAID AND WROTE including this young mans parents, a therapitst, school authorities, the police as well as the mental health providers felt this young man WAS a threat, and treated him properly.

So it sounds to me like there was no miscarriage of justice. In fact it sounds like a potential unstable person was identified and instead of complaining should be seeking additional help to deal with what ever issues he has to rid himself of the need to write of such violent attacks on others.

jacques
04-10-2008, 11:09 AM
It sound like EVERY adult WHO KNOWS WHAT HE REALLY SAID AND WROTE including this young mans parents, a therapitst, school authorities, the police as well as the mental health providers felt this young man WAS a threat, and treated him properly.

So it sounds to me like there was no miscarriage of justice. In fact it sounds like a potential unstable person was identified and instead of complaining should be seeking additional help to deal with what ever issues he has to rid himself of the need to write of such violent attacks on others.

+1, I think they handled it appropriately.

Paradiddle
04-10-2008, 12:09 PM
On the other hand, you'd be surprised how many bad and over-reactionary parents are out there.

Spoken like a child with no parenting experience.

mymonkeyman
04-10-2008, 12:15 PM
Spoken like a child with no parenting experience.

So you think its appropriate for parents to go with their children to job interviews (when their kids are in college)? Or what about talking to their college professors about grades? What about parents who won't let their kids play cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians, or use nerf toys? There are a lot of nutball parents out there these days.

Or should I say spoken like yet another self-deluded parent?

E Pluribus Unum
04-10-2008, 12:43 PM
Think of it like a traffic ticket;

If you refuse to sign it, the ticket doesn't disappear...

A citation is used in lieu of a physical arrest, so if you don't either promise to appear as required or pay the bail amount (by signing), you can be booked into the local jail until the judge can see you and determine your guilt or innocence.

Your facts are a little off. If you refuse to sign a traffic ticket they MAY take you before a judge but they do not have to. If they do not take you to jail they have no leverage to get you into court, they cannot suspend your license because you never promised to appear in court. They would have to issue a bench warrant later which would defeat the purpose so they usually just take you to jail then.

If they take you to jail for speeding because you refused to sign the ticket then now you are is "in custody". The person is then entitled to a public defender and a jury trial within 30 days even for speeding.

Paradiddle
04-10-2008, 1:20 PM
So you think its appropriate for parents to go with their children to job interviews (when their kids are in college)? Or what about talking to their college professors about grades? What about parents who won't let their kids play cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians, or use nerf toys? There are a lot of nutball parents out there these days.

Or should I say spoken like yet another self-deluded parent?

How old are you and how many parents do you really think you know? Do you honestly believe all the horror stories your friends complain about? Most kids lie their *** off about how hard their home life is - I hear it all day long from my kids friends and at the Little League field.

I'd say that 99% of parents make rules for a reason - some are to keep their kids quiet :D - others are more legit. I have no issue doing the things you mentioned in your email IF my experience with MY child warrented it.

The thing you are avoiding is that there is NO WAY this was a first time event with you and your parents - I don't think many, if any parents over-react much the first time - at least to the extent your parents did.

Frnakly I'd love for them to log onto Calguns and tell us the truth.

Since you have no experience being a parent, and only being a kid, you should listen and learn for a while. I'm not self-deluded - I'm experienced. There is a HUGE difference that you will learn as you mature and have children of your own. Lots of things change when you take on the responsibility of parenthood - it's not for the faint of heart.

Okay - I've done my share of troll feeding today....

Danield
04-10-2008, 2:56 PM
Your facts are a little off. If you refuse to sign a traffic ticket they MAY take you before a judge but they do not have to. If they do not take you to jail they have no leverage to get you into court, they cannot suspend your license because you never promised to appear in court. They would have to issue a bench warrant later which would defeat the purpose so they usually just take you to jail then.

If they take you to jail for speeding because you refused to sign the ticket then now you are is "in custody". The person is then entitled to a public defender and a jury trial within 30 days even for speeding.

didnt you just get your license back after 5 years without it? and you're giving traffic ticket advice??

just screwing with you.

E Pluribus Unum
04-10-2008, 4:30 PM
didnt you just get your license back after 5 years without it? and you're giving traffic ticket advice??

just screwing with you.

That is precisely why I am qualified to give advice. I've been there and done that...

I have been completely through the entire traffic system. I've been written 30 or so various tickets, some moving violations, some not.

I beat an average of 80% of my tickets. I've been driving like a good little boy for 5 years so my record is clean... :)

cbn620
04-10-2008, 5:24 PM
It sound like EVERY adult WHO KNOWS WHAT HE REALLY SAID AND WROTE including this young mans parents, a therapitst, school authorities, the police as well as the mental health providers felt this young man WAS a threat, and treated him properly.

So it sounds to me like there was no miscarriage of justice. In fact it sounds like a potential unstable person was identified and instead of complaining should be seeking additional help to deal with what ever issues he has to rid himself of the need to write of such violent attacks on others.

But the burden of proof is always, always, ALWAYS on the authority. I understand there could be a side to this story we aren't hearing, and that's why I'm not going to go into bleeding heart mode and call this kid a victim just yet. I am just saying it'd be unfair for us to just throw him to the wolves because some authority figures got together and said he's too crazy to own a gun.

Crazed_SS
04-10-2008, 5:25 PM
It sound like EVERY adult WHO KNOWS WHAT HE REALLY SAID AND WROTE including this young mans parents, a therapitst, school authorities, the police as well as the mental health providers felt this young man WAS a threat, and treated him properly.

So it sounds to me like there was no miscarriage of justice. In fact it sounds like a potential unstable person was identified and instead of complaining should be seeking additional help to deal with what ever issues he has to rid himself of the need to write of such violent attacks on others.

Agreed. Looks like the system worked.

scootergmc
04-10-2008, 9:55 PM
That is precisely why I am qualified to give advice. I've been there and done that...

I have been completely through the entire traffic system. I've been written 30 or so various tickets, some moving violations, some not.

I beat an average of 80% of my tickets. I've been driving like a good little boy for 5 years so my record is clean... :)

You've beaten an average of 80% of your tickets? How do you average 80% out of 30? How does that work? I understand how you could beat 80% of your tickets, but an average? Either way, 80% of 30 is 24.

So you've had 30 tickets. You've beaten 24. I'm just gonna whip this out now:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/scootergmc/BSMeter.jpg

mymonkeyman
04-10-2008, 10:15 PM
How old are you and how many parents do you really think you know? Do you honestly believe all the horror stories your friends complain about? Most kids lie their *** off about how hard their home life is - I hear it all day long from my kids friends and at the Little League field.

I'd say that 99% of parents make rules for a reason - some are to keep their kids quiet :D - others are more legit. I have no issue doing the things you mentioned in your email IF my experience with MY child warrented it.

The thing you are avoiding is that there is NO WAY this was a first time event with you and your parents - I don't think many, if any parents over-react much the first time - at least to the extent your parents did.

Frnakly I'd love for them to log onto Calguns and tell us the truth.

Since you have no experience being a parent, and only being a kid, you should listen and learn for a while. I'm not self-deluded - I'm experienced. There is a HUGE difference that you will learn as you mature and have children of your own. Lots of things change when you take on the responsibility of parenthood - it's not for the faint of heart.

Okay - I've done my share of troll feeding today....

Firstly you have me confused with the OP, I am an adult, my relationship with my parents are fine. What I have said aren't stories, they are things I have seen with my own two eyes. Sure, I've also seen lots of horrible parents the other way, who don't discipline their children at all, and they run around like animals (I have on multiple occasions had neighbors who let their children defecate in their yards and neighbors yards. Called cops and CPS and they did nothing). Other parents are so controlling that even into late high school (even 18+ years old), they were telling their A-average student what to do and when to do it 100% of the time. Those kids were royally screwed up, one of them failed out of Berkeley because he had never learned self-discipline and self-directed responsibility. Another one ended up getting a crystal meth addiction as soon as he went to college. These were honors students from a magnet high school.

Now you probably don't care because you have obviously done some unimpeachable statistical study to get your 99% figure. I know most parents are completely unwilling to acknowledge that they (and by transitivity) any parent could be deficient, but more often that not, when I see a parent in public they are exhibiting obviously bad parenting. Admittedly my samples are probably bad, living in either very crappy poor areas or very rich areas, which is more likely to cause such extremes, but the idea that any parent should be beyond question or reproach is just dumb.

pullnshoot25
04-10-2008, 10:53 PM
You've beaten an average of 80% of your tickets? How do you average 80% out of 30? How does that work? I understand how you could beat 80% of your tickets, but an average? Either way, 80% of 30 is 24.

So you've had 30 tickets. You've beaten 24. I'm just gonna whip this out now:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/scootergmc/BSMeter.jpg

Ive gotten 3 tickets. My first one I paid out of ignorance and attended traffic school. The last two I fought and won. That is a 66.66% success rate with my own tickets. If you include the other 4 I have helped other people fight through my insemination of knowledge, that makes it 85.7%

It isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

Conversekidz
04-10-2008, 11:12 PM
I'm not about to read the 13 pages after I read what PeppersFan2 said....

I wrote a fake plan for a postal type thing but I wrote it as a parady and after showing it too freinds forgot it existed.


People like you should not be allowed access to firearms, no if, ands, or buts about it.

How dumb do you have to be to write an attack plan, parody or not and keep copies of it lying around?

I have to ask, why even write an attack plan in the first place? If I saw a written plan, I would assume you had some feelings that you wanted to carry it out, if that wasn't the case, why write it in the first place?

Maybe you should get a nerf gun, at least that way when you get the feeling to go postal no one gets killed.

http://nerfhaven.com/forums/uploads/photo-212.jpg

E Pluribus Unum
04-10-2008, 11:41 PM
You've beaten an average of 80% of your tickets? How do you average 80% out of 30? How does that work? I understand how you could beat 80% of your tickets, but an average? Either way, 80% of 30 is 24.

So you've had 30 tickets. You've beaten 24. I'm just gonna whip this out now:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/scootergmc/BSMeter.jpg

I really don't care if you believe me or not. I have beaten a lot of tickets. I have kept most of the briefs I have written including all of the change of venues, written not guilty pleas, trial by declarations, and appeals. The directory has 90 files in it totalling 8 megabytes. For txt that is a lot!

I wont post all of them but I will post the one I put the most work into. It was an appeal for speeding that I lost in trial.

You will see that a newb could not write something like this:

http://www.bakersfieldtech.com/legal/appeal-fake.pdf

P.S.
The names and citation numbers have been changed for privacy reasons.

Nick5811
04-11-2008, 2:05 AM
Your facts are a little off. If you refuse to sign a traffic ticket they MAY take you before a judge but they do not have to.

If they take you to jail for speeding because you refused to sign the ticket then now you are is "in custody". The person is then entitled to a public defender and a jury trial within 30 days even for speeding.

It's off topic, but umm...yeah...that's what I said "you CAN be booked into the jail"...at least that's how we do it in San Mateo, Alameda and Santa Clara counties.

Some states like Texas require you to pay the bail amount on site (via credit card!) or you're taken directly to a magistrate.

scootergmc
04-11-2008, 7:17 AM
I really don't care if you believe me or not.

Apparently you do, by the rest of your response.

scootergmc
04-11-2008, 7:18 AM
Ive gotten 3 tickets. My first one I paid out of ignorance and attended traffic school. The last two I fought and won. That is a 66.66% success rate with my own tickets. If you include the other 4 I have helped other people fight through my insemination of knowledge, that makes it 85.7%

It isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

Just as it isn't beyond the realm of impossibility.

pullnshoot25
04-11-2008, 7:57 AM
Why doesn't PeppersFan2 PM the story to those interested so we can judge it for ourselves?

Also, how about the 5150?

SemiAutoSam
04-11-2008, 8:08 AM
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/veh/40300-40313.html

40302. Whenever any person is arrested for any violation of this
code, not declared to be a felony, the arrested person shall be taken
without unnecessary delay before a magistrate within the county in
which the offense charged is alleged to have been committed and who
has jurisdiction of the offense and is nearest or most accessible
with reference to the place where the arrest is made in any of the
following cases:
(a) When the person arrested fails to present his driver's license
or other satisfactory evidence of his identity for examination.
(b) When the person arrested refuses to give his written promise
to appear in court.
(c) When the person arrested demands an immediate appearance
before a magistrate.
(d) When the person arrested is charged with violating Section
23152.






Your facts are a little off. If you refuse to sign a traffic ticket they MAY take you before a judge but they do not have to. If they do not take you to jail they have no leverage to get you into court, they cannot suspend your license because you never promised to appear in court. They would have to issue a bench warrant later which would defeat the purpose so they usually just take you to jail then.

If they take you to jail for speeding because you refused to sign the ticket then now you are is "in custody". The person is then entitled to a public defender and a jury trial within 30 days even for speeding.

eta34
04-11-2008, 8:14 AM
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/veh/40300-40313.html

40302. Whenever any person is arrested for any violation of this
code, not declared to be a felony, the arrested person shall be taken
without unnecessary delay before a magistrate within the county in
which the offense charged is alleged to have been committed and who
has jurisdiction of the offense and is nearest or most accessible
with reference to the place where the arrest is made in any of the
following cases:
(a) When the person arrested fails to present his driver's license
or other satisfactory evidence of his identity for examination.
(b) When the person arrested refuses to give his written promise
to appear in court.
(c) When the person arrested demands an immediate appearance
before a magistrate.
(d) When the person arrested is charged with violating Section
23152.



However, there are times when a magistrate is not available, such as the middle of the night. You will get booked and released in that situation. During the middle of the day (normal court hours), you SHALL go directly to the judge. It does happen (and has happened to me).

SemiAutoSam
04-11-2008, 8:19 AM
That's odd the code section does not differentiate between day or night just that I would think that in keeping with this code section most jurisdictions would have a magistrate on duty 24/7. :rolleyes:


the arrested person shall be taken
without unnecessary delay before a magistrate.

However, there are times when a magistrate is not available, such as the middle of the night. You will get booked and released in that situation. During the middle of the day (normal court hours), you SHALL go directly to the judge. It does happen (and has happened to me).

eta34
04-11-2008, 8:22 AM
I can only speak from experience in my area. We have on-call judges to sign search warrants and issue emergency protective orders. There is no such procedure for traffic tickets. I cannot speak for other jurisdictions in CA, but I would venture to guess it is the same.

E Pluribus Unum
04-11-2008, 8:40 AM
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/veh/40300-40313.html

40302. Whenever any person is arrested for any violation of this
code, not declared to be a felony, the arrested person shall be taken
without unnecessary delay before a magistrate within the county in
which the offense charged is alleged to have been committed and who
has jurisdiction of the offense and is nearest or most accessible
with reference to the place where the arrest is made in any of the
following cases:
(a) When the person arrested fails to present his driver's license
or other satisfactory evidence of his identity for examination.
(b) When the person arrested refuses to give his written promise
to appear in court.
(c) When the person arrested demands an immediate appearance
before a magistrate.
(d) When the person arrested is charged with violating Section
23152.

I know what the law says. Read section A. At first glance it says that if anyone forgets his driver's license he should be arrested and taken before a judge. You should know it doesn't work that way.

Apparently you do, by the rest of your response.

Actaully I do not. The concern is that other people who don't know any better may see your post and consider it valid. I want that person to see which one of us is full of BS.

eta34
04-11-2008, 8:48 AM
No, not true. I can ID people without their ID in my city. For example, my dispatch can send the individual's driver's license photo or previous booking photo to my computer. Not all cities have this ability, but we do.

E Pluribus Unum
04-11-2008, 9:38 AM
No, not true. I can ID people without their ID in my city. For example, my dispatch can send the individual's driver's license photo or previous booking photo to my computer. Not all cities have this ability, but we do.

But as the law may be deceptive one could arrive to that conclusion by reading it. Even in jurisdictions where that is not possible they are not going to arrest them. They will be issued a 12500a citation and cut loose.

scootergmc
04-11-2008, 9:49 AM
Actaully I do not. The concern is that other people who don't know any better may see your post and consider it valid. I want that person to see which one of us is full of BS.

You could just post copies of all 30 tickets and that would pretty much solve the BS debate for me. I'll be the first one to admit I'm full of it.

Riodog
04-11-2008, 6:52 PM
Just for your reading enjoyment. Be scared, very scared.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/11/boudreau.campus.rage/index.html?eref=ib_topstories

Rio

mymonkeyman
04-11-2008, 6:59 PM
Just for your reading enjoyment. Be scared, very scared.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/11/boudreau.campus.rage/index.html?eref=ib_topstories

Rio

Note to self: never adopt child from Bulgarian orphanage.

E Pluribus Unum
04-11-2008, 8:10 PM
You could just post copies of all 30 tickets and that would pretty much solve the BS debate for me. I'll be the first one to admit I'm full of it.

Those tickets have very personal information on them; previous addresses, current addresses, driver's license numbers, citation numbers, officer information, vehicle information. These are things that should not be given out and I am not going to post them. I am certainly not going to edit all of my info out of them. You either believe me or you do not; its up to you.

I am not a troll; I have been here a long time and I don't anus talk. If that's not good enough for you I'm sorry.

76231b
04-11-2008, 8:28 PM
While I was in the hospital some gangbanger loser tried to offer me a glock .40 I turned him down though.

AHAHAHA

GLOCK FOTAY

Peppersfan2
04-13-2008, 1:34 PM
FINAL UPDATE:

Well Its come to this resolution.

1.I've talked with a mental health worker that has stayed in contact with me and she is going to help me find out what I need to do to challange this legally. My ex teacher who was also a lawyer has said that many of my rights were violated.

2.The mental health worker has told me that from the begining no one thought I was a real threat but that they had to cover their own ***.

3.A new house bill that was passed will allow me to challange this in court and get my right to guns back as well as being able to join the millitary.

4.To all the calgunners saying that I'm crazy and deserve to be banned for life and posting pics of nerf guns you don't know me. You don't know my history or weather I'm mentally competant. You can say I'm not telling you stuff but I've been completly honest. It doesn't matter cause you already have you opinions about me.

Not all 5150s are crazy and many of them deserve the right to firearms. I have no previous history with this sort of thing and I have no mental disorders The only reason you say that is because all of the school shootings. So in a way you don't care about me or if I'm really a threat you only care about how gun owners come across to the public. Either that or you truly belive that some people should have their rights taken away without personal evaluation.

The mental process to ban gun ownership does not examine on a individual basis. Its not being crazy that disqualifies you its the getting checked that does. You can be as elitist as you want but remember just owning a gun makes you look crazy to everyone else. How am I any different for a story? I broke not a single law and i was completly within the 1st amendment. and found to not have been a real threat. How can you judge me?







To all the ones that were supportive of me thank you all so much for all of the advice. I plan to fight this not only for the guns but for all the mental health people chastized by the mental health system in regards to other things. I find it appaling that a violent felon would have his records cleared but a one time stay in a hospital gets you banned for life.

Thank you all. I might lose my case but I will not go down without a fight. When I turn 18 and get situated in comunity college i will fight this at the first convienant moment. Thank you calgunners and good day.
Hopefully next time I post here I can show you a sweet .223. ;)