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Boxer
04-03-2008, 6:43 PM
I was told by a FFL dealer that it is illegal to transport an unloaded pistol in a locked soft case/bag with or without ammo, that the case had to be a hard case.

I was told by another FFL dealer that sold me a soft case/bag that it is legal to carry an unloaded pistol in one part of the case, loacked and the ammo in another section of the case and the ammo did not have to be locked.

Someone else said you can carry a pistol in a locked soft case with the ammo in the same case as long as it was not touching the magazines or pistol.

The bag is a 5.11 tactical bag or a HK tactical case.

Who is correct?

After this I am not asking anyone else.

Ballistic043
04-03-2008, 6:45 PM
yes, you can transport the gun in a soft case as long as its lock-able with some kind of combination or key lock. you can store ammunition in the same bag, as long as its not attached in any manner to the firearm.

i am not sure about having to cable lock the pistol when in conjunction with locking it in a case.

762cavalier
04-03-2008, 6:48 PM
First answer is BS:icon_bs:

The second guy is almost correct except the pistol has to be in a locked case not just locked in a case.Remember though the trunk of your car counts as a locked case.

the third guy is correct.

Boxer
04-03-2008, 6:51 PM
OK, what happens when you drive an Excursion like me and have no truck? Is the pistol in a locked soft case legal?

CSDGuy
04-03-2008, 6:52 PM
Although carrying ammo in the same case as the unloaded firearm is legal, in the instance of a soft case, it might be possible to jostle the case around and load a loaded magazine into the magwell... which creates a loaded gun problem. Soft cases are just fine, as long as they're lockable, and locked while transporting the firearm.

Boxer
04-03-2008, 7:22 PM
Thanks, so even though the locked soft case is not in the trunk, it is in the same part of the car as I am it is legal. Excursions have no trucks. Of course it is kept out of reach while I am driving.

Sgt Raven
04-03-2008, 7:28 PM
I was told by a FFL dealer that it is illegal to transport an unloaded pistol in a locked soft case/bag with or without ammo, that the case had to be a hard case.
I was told by another FFL dealer that sold me a soft case/bag that it is legal to carry an unloaded pistol in one part of the case, loacked and the ammo in another section of the case and the ammo did not have to be locked.

Someone else said you can carry a pistol in a locked soft case with the ammo in the same case as long as it was not touching the magazines or pistol.

The bag is a 5.11 tactical bag or a HK tactical case.

Who is correct?

After this I am not asking anyone else.

Maybe the first guy is confusing airline travel rules with Cas rules. For airline travel your firearms must be in a locked HARD case, although I use a locked soft case inside a locked hard side suitcase.

CSDGuy
04-03-2008, 7:49 PM
Thanks, so even though the locked soft case is not in the trunk, it is in the same part of the car as I am it is legal. Excursions have no trucks. Of course it is kept out of reach while I am driving.
As long as the case is locked, it could be anywhere in the vehicle.

Boxer
04-03-2008, 8:13 PM
Thanks for the clarity on your responses.

FlyingPen
04-03-2008, 8:13 PM
You can transport a handgun in a car completely unlocked as long as you can be sure it's out in the open and not concealed and not loaded. Good luck with that though, unless you have some sort of mechanism to make sure it doesn't move.

BadFish
04-03-2008, 8:43 PM
OK, so reading this post has gotten me all confused now. If the handgun has the slide open with the lock that came with in locked through the breach, I still have to have a case that locks as well?

Anyone have a lock to the actual code? I'd like to read it to make sure I am in compliance.

bohoki
04-03-2008, 9:18 PM
yea cable locks arent enough i guess they dont want you whipping it out and pointing it at someone even with the slide locked back an a child safe lock through the action

just tell them i could cut through a plastic case just as fast as a padded fabric one

also what about the old glock tupperware was that even a case?

jfox999
04-03-2008, 9:28 PM
The law in CA says a locked container, It doesn't specify soft or hard. The intent is that you can't have access to the gun while driving. Obey that and you are probably OK
Of course the firearm must be unloaded. Storing the ammunition outside the case is a wise thing to do.
My $0.22

mecam
04-03-2008, 9:30 PM
Quick quesiton, what if you have the HG in the plastic hard case with a cable lock but the key is attached to the cable lock dangling, is that illegal?

http://www.10374.com/temp/lock.jpg

Boxer
04-03-2008, 9:32 PM
Why not have a combination lock with only one number off sequence. Seems risky to keep the key in.

aplinker
04-03-2008, 9:44 PM
By the way, you can carry loaded magazines inside that locked case, as long they're not inserted into the pistol.

I wouldn't keep the key in the lock as that's pretty much unlocked.

Others have suggested containers that can be torn open in emergencies.

As soon as I saw this all I could think was, "All your case are belong to us."

jfox999
04-03-2008, 9:52 PM
Guys, The law says unloaded and in a locked container, the rest is just pushing the limits if you get into court or the cop's in a bad mood. I don't object to that, as long you are willing to be (and pay for being) the trial case and not me.
Unloaded, locked in a container, and key in your pocket, is certianly legal. Remember the intent is that you don't have access to the gun while driving. A key in the lock, would that convince a jury you didn't have access ?

hoffmang
04-03-2008, 9:55 PM
Mecam - legal. I used to do it with a Beretta 92 that had a case like that.

Any case you can lock is a locked case for California law. You can have loaded mags in the case but not in the firearm itself. Once the case is locked you can have it on the passenger seat. Poor mans CCW in California is a locking briefcase with slide back, mags in the case or with you, and the combo one away from open.

-Gene

mecam
04-03-2008, 10:00 PM
I just called my Bro (OPD) and he said as long as I have to turn the key to unlock it, it's ok. Plus I don't see in the law that the key must be separated.

Librarian
04-03-2008, 10:05 PM
OK, so reading this post has gotten me all confused now. If the handgun has the slide open with the lock that came with in locked through the breach, I still have to have a case that locks as well?

Anyone have a lock to the actual code? I'd like to read it to make sure I am in compliance.

The code is PC 12026.1 and 12026.2

12026.1 (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

12026.2 (b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
[snip - that bit is a source of confusion and outside the scope of the question posed]
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.
The slide lock or other lock on the gun is completely irrelevant to transport requirements.

mecam
04-03-2008, 10:16 PM
Just to be safe, I'll just get me a combination lock. Every LEO have their own opinions and set of rules if you know what I mean. :rolleyes:

hoffmang
04-03-2008, 11:12 PM
BTW: My "its legal" above was without noticing the key in the lock. Go combo if you want quick access.

Sorry about that.

-Gene

SmithAndJohnson
04-03-2008, 11:56 PM
Thanks, so even though the locked soft case is not in the trunk, it is in the same part of the car as I am it is legal. Excursions have no trucks. Of course it is kept out of reach while I am driving.
If the pistol is in a locked case (soft is okay), you could have the damn thing on your lap if you wanted.

SmithAndJohnson
04-03-2008, 11:59 PM
Just to be safe, I'll just get me a combination lock. Every LEO have their own opinions and set of rules if you know what I mean. :rolleyes:
If you want quick access and want to leave the combo lock 1-off, I understand. But your setup as pictured is perfectly legal if you take the key out.

And *might* be with the key in, but that's probably territory you don't want to get into when an LEO and DA and jury disagree

BadFish
04-04-2008, 8:54 AM
The code is PC 12026.1 and 12026.2
The slide lock or other lock on the gun is completely irrelevant to transport requirements.

Great, thanks for clearing that up.

WokMaster1
04-04-2008, 9:08 AM
Maybe the first guy is confusing airline travel rules with Cas rules. For airline travel your firearms must be in a locked HARD case, although I use a locked soft case inside a locked hard side suitcase.

Nah! most likely scenario would be that he's trying to sell his $90 Made in (insert country) hard case.;)

Fate
04-04-2008, 12:01 PM
You can transport a handgun in a car completely unlocked as long as you can be sure it's out in the open and not concealed and not loaded. Good luck with that though, unless you have some sort of mechanism to make sure it doesn't move.
What about something like this mounted to your dashboard up in plain sight? :D

http://quickdrawgunmagnets.com/QUICKDRAW%20BOX/27.jpg
http://www.southpawguns.com/Classified.php?action=detail&g=sales1171471421&pid=840

hoffmang
04-04-2008, 12:12 PM
What about something like this mounted to your dashboard up in plain sight? :D

http://quickdrawgunmagnets.com/QUICKDRAW%20BOX/27.jpg
http://www.southpawguns.com/Classified.php?action=detail&g=sales1171471421&pid=840

Not a locked case. Very useful if you're looking for a few nights free compliments of the County or State.

-Gene

Fate
04-04-2008, 12:13 PM
Not a locked case. Very useful if you're looking for a few nights free compliments of the County or State.

-Gene

Unloaded? It's a magnet and would just hold the weapon in a visible, easily seen location. It's not a holster, case or anything that could remotely conceal the firearm. If the gun is unloaded and located in a very visible location...how is it illegal?

CSDGuy
04-04-2008, 12:57 PM
Unloaded? It's a magnet and would just hold the weapon in a visible, easily seen location. It's not a holster, case or anything that could remotely conceal the firearm. If the gun is unloaded and located in a very visible location...how is it illegal?
Just drive within 1000' of a school... as one example.

FlyingPen
04-04-2008, 1:01 PM
I wonder if a really form fitting biometric (fingerprint scan) locking case exists? If it's somehow holsterable, that would be a real poor man's CCW in California.

mecam
04-04-2008, 1:05 PM
I wonder if a really form fitting biometric (fingerprint scan) locking case exists? If it's somehow holsterable, that would be a real poor man's CCW in California.

I would call those rich man's CCW in California. ;)

mymonkeyman
04-04-2008, 1:33 PM
I would call those rich man's CCW in California. ;)

No, the rich man's CCW is the actual CCW, which apparently costs quite a bit in campaign contributions to the local sheriff.

FlyingPen
04-04-2008, 1:37 PM
It would be interesting if you can get a PPS or P2000SK or a sub compact Glock into a swivel case that looks like a Treo or some other fat smartphone case.

A fast biometric scanner would make unholstering it pretty fast but you do have to load a mag very fast as well. I have seen some people reload insanely fast so maybe it's not so bad.

hoffmang
04-04-2008, 1:49 PM
There are a few biometric handgun safes out there. This is only one and I don't know much about it but its a perfect example:
http://www.biovaultsafe.net/index.html

-Gene

FlyingPen
04-04-2008, 1:53 PM
I guess I'm thinking even smaller than that. The primary purpose of the case wouldn't be protection or tamperproofing but simply form fitting storage. I'm thinking it should probably be a soft material (ballistic nylon or other resilient fabric) that can be clipped on to a belt or in a sort of holster. It can use a thumbprint scanner or even a simple combo lock. Just have the combo lock be one click away from unlocking for fast access.

I'm not entirely sure if something like that would be legal in all places in California.

Fate
04-04-2008, 2:09 PM
Just drive within 1000' of a school... as one example.
That's a location-based exemption that applies to all forms of open carry. School zone restrictions are not really applicable to whether use of a magnet is a form of open carry and legal if placed in a very visible spot.

M. Sage
04-04-2008, 6:09 PM
First answer is BS:icon_bs:

The second guy is almost correct except the pistol has to be in a locked case not just locked in a case.Remember though the trunk of your car counts as a locked case.

the third guy is correct.

Third guy is mostly correct. You can transport with ammo in magazines as long as the magazines aren't in the pistol. You can transport ammo and magazines touching the pistol, just as long as they're not touching it in a way that means the pistol is loaded.