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acolytes
04-03-2008, 10:41 AM
Hi all, got a quick question. I tried finding info on this but didn't have any luck. A good friend of mine has some large capacity mags from previous hand guns he owned. ( I think it was Sigs, I dont remember). I know the large cap rules on properly configured rifles but what about hand guns? Can he use the large cap mags in hand gun? The funny thing is he's in law enforcement but doesn't know this. We talked about rifles too and he thought all Ar's and AK's were banned. I told him he needs to check out Calguns.net, but knowing him he won't.

Librarian
04-03-2008, 10:48 AM
Hi all, got a quick question. I tried finding info on this but didn't have any luck. A good friend of mine has some large capacity mags from previous hand guns he owned. ( I think it was Sigs, I dont remember). I know the large cap rules on properly configured rifles but what about hand guns? Can he use the large cap mags in hand gun? The funny thing is he's in law enforcement but doesn't know this. We talked about rifles too and he thought all Ar's and AK's were banned. I told him he needs to check out Calguns.net, but knowing him he won't.

Yes, he can use them - he cannot transfer them (to non-LEO) in-state, but he can own and use any normal-capacity handgun magazines he owned in California before January 1, 2000.

acolytes
04-03-2008, 10:50 AM
cool, I'll let him know. Thanks!

JeffM
04-03-2008, 11:30 AM
If he's sworn LEO he can even buy, import, etc. hi-cap mags from dealers and FFLs in CA with hi-cap mag permits, etc. with just his LE ID. Doesn't need letterhead or anything else.

DedEye
04-03-2008, 4:39 PM
Reminds me of a rookie UCPD officer I talked to who told me he got rid of some 13 round S&W magazines he had (legally owned pre-2k) when applying to his department because he thought they were illegal.

bohoki
04-03-2008, 7:05 PM
Yes, he can use them - he cannot transfer them (to non-LEO) in-state, but he can own and use any normal-capacity handgun magazines he owned in California before January 1, 2000.

its that kind of response that is confusing normal capacity from 1994-now was 10 rounds or less

mags that hold more than 10 is a high capacity magazine according to the expired crime bill and the full in effect sb23 california law

the pendantic normal capacity people need to realize they are confused
mainly because the term normal capacity has no meaning

to some guns normal capacity is any capacity depending upon what magazine the manufacturer designed the gun around

say you have a ruger 10/22 it holds 10 a high capacity would be any more than 10

say you have a single stack 1911 a 10 round mag would be high capacity technically

but since we have a legal definition meaning capable of holding over 10 cartridges

ya gotta lighten up and not confuse

can you buy normal capacity magazines ?

i know i havent been able to buy high capacity magazines at a gunstore?

would you answer you can not be sold normal capacity magazines?

Librarian
04-03-2008, 10:16 PM
its that kind of response that is confusing normal capacity from 1994-now was 10 rounds or less

mags that hold more than 10 is a high capacity magazine according to the expired crime bill and the full in effect sb23 california law

the pendantic normal capacity people need to realize they are confused
mainly because the term normal capacity has no meaning

I have to disagree.

There's the story about Lincoln - usually referring to a dog - In discussing the question, he used to liken the case to that of the boy who, when asked how many legs his calf would have if he called its tail a leg, replied, Five, to which the prompt response was made that calling the tail a leg would not make it a leg.

Legislatures also have created 'assault weapons' from their fevered - and uninformed - imaginations.

Calling any magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds 'high capacity' is just silly. I don't have to go along with mistakes, even legislatively mandated ones.

bohoki
04-03-2008, 10:39 PM
I have to disagree.

There's the story about Lincoln - usually referring to a dog -

Legislatures also have created 'assault weapons' from their fevered - and uninformed - imaginations.

Calling any magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds 'high capacity' is just silly. I don't have to go along with mistakes, even legislatively mandated ones.

ok then how many rounds does a normal magazine hold?

is the magazine that comes in the gun from the manufacturer the normal capacity?

or is it the maximum capacity magazine a certain gun could take?

see the confusion having a glock 30 using a 13 round magazine is a "high capacity" magazine

having a remington 7400 with an 8 round mag is a high capacity mag

obviously a 33 round magazine is a high capacity mag in a glock 19 or 17

is a 40 round magazine a high capacity magazine ? is an ak 20 rounder a low capacity magazine ?

an amt lightning 25/22 came with a banana mag so using a 10 rounder would be a low capacity magazine but that same magazine is also a normal capacity magazine for a ruger 10/22

Casual Observer
04-03-2008, 10:57 PM
Hi all, got a quick question. I tried finding info on this but didn't have any luck. A good friend of mine has some large capacity mags from previous hand guns he owned. ( I think it was Sigs, I dont remember). I know the large cap rules on properly configured rifles but what about hand guns? Can he use the large cap mags in hand gun? The funny thing is he's in law enforcement but doesn't know this. We talked about rifles too and he thought all Ar's and AK's were banned. I told him he needs to check out Calguns.net, but knowing him he won't.

The law says nothing about owning or using hi-cap magazines. The only restrictions are on importing and selling.

As pointed out above, as a LEO, your friend is exempt from those restrictions for his personal use. He cannot, however, give/ sell/ lend/ gift the magazines to anyone else.

Librarian
04-03-2008, 11:12 PM
ok then how many rounds does a normal magazine hold?

is the magazine that comes in the gun from the manufacturer the normal capacity?

or is it the maximum capacity magazine a certain gun could take?

see the confusion having a glock 30 using a 13 round magazine is a "high capacity" magazine

having a remington 7400 with an 8 round mag is a high capacity mag

obviously a 33 round magazine is a high capacity mag in a glock 19 or 17

is a 40 round magazine a high capacity magazine ? is an ak 20 rounder a low capacity magazine ?

an amt lightning 25/22 came with a banana mag so using a 10 rounder would be a low capacity magazine but that same magazine is also a normal capacity magazine for a ruger 10/22
You're essentially right - I think it's the design.

So, a bone stock 1911 normal capacity is 7. More than 7 for that weapon is extra. A Buckmark takes 10-rounders; 10-rounders are normal for that weapon.

A stock Glock 21 mag is 13. G21 10-rounders are not 'normal', they're diminished capacity magazines (and I use that phrasing fully aware of the other connotations of the phrase). Restricting G21s to 10-rounders does not make the 13-rounders 'large capacity'.

'Large capacity' is some legislator's bizarre fears showing through; it's a value judgement I decline to accept.

ETA Taking mymonkeyman's suggestion - thanks!

mymonkeyman
04-03-2008, 11:18 PM
If you are talking about a legal term, use the legal term, which is large-capacity magazine. If you don't think it is a good term, put it in scare quotes.

bohoki
04-03-2008, 11:34 PM
You're essentially right - I think it's the design.

So, a bone stock 1911 normal capacity is 7. More than 7 for that weapon is extra. A Buckmark takes 10-rounders; 10-rounders are normal for that weapon.

A stock Glock 21 mag is 13. G21 10-rounders are not 'normal', they're diminished capacity magazines (and I use that phrasing fully aware of the other connotations of the phrase). Restricting G21s to 10-rounders does not make the 13-rounders 'high capacity'.

'High capacity' is some legislator's bizarre fears showing through; it's a value judgement I decline to accept.


but he called them "large capacity" magazines

would that be equal to your "extra capacity" magazines

what did you asume when he used the term "large capacity" magazines

what do you think the "common usage" would mean

we have lived under the "high-capacity" usage for 12 years it has become a common term be it large capacity, extra capacity, extended capacity

heck now that we have morons running things over there at merriam-webster ginormous-capacity is ok

Librarian
04-03-2008, 11:50 PM
but he called them "large capacity" magazines

would that be equal to your "extra capacity" magazines

what did you asume when he used the term "large capacity" magazines

what do you think the "common usage" would mean

we have lived under the "high-capacity" usage for 12 years it has become a common term be it large capacity, extra capacity, extended capacity

heck now that we have morons running things over there at merriam-webster ginormous-capacity is ok

Missing context : "he" ?

mymonkeyman is correct - the actual part of the Penal Code is 'large capacity', not 'high capacity' (and it's actually hyphenated, which I forgot). (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any
ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it
cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-actionI would suggest 'extra capacity' as the description for the 30-something round G17 magazines and similar expansions of the design capacity.

Common usage is not particularly helpful. People commonly believe that guns on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale are there because they are 'safe'. People commonly refer to removable box magazines as 'clips'. People commonly address our Legislators as 'Honorable'.

bohoki
04-04-2008, 12:33 AM
Missing context : "he" ?

mymonkeyman is correct - the actual part of the Penal Code is 'large capacity', not 'high capacity' (and it's actually hyphenated, which I forgot).I would suggest 'extra capacity' as the description for the 30-something round G17 magazines and similar expansions of the design capacity.

Common usage is not particularly helpful. People commonly believe that guns on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale are there because they are 'safe'. People commonly refer to removable box magazines as 'clips'. People commonly address our Legislators as 'Honorable'.

sorry the he was my term for the "original poster"

i would hate to have to ask you for a kleenex or a bandaid only to have you reply sorry i only have these "scott brand facial tissues" and "curity adhesive strips"

you know dentists havent used novacaine since the 60s what they actually use is lidocaine since novacaine has a higher allergic reaction rate

hope you dont ever yell for more novacaine and have them say sorry we'll have to order some while your tooth nerve is exposed


what do you think the original poster meant?

what would be an acceptable term to use for 10 rounds or less magazine and 11 rounds or more magazines that is simple term


i'm still on the quest for a non gender specific singular third party possessive pronoun

you seem to be the word police can you help me with that one

Librarian
04-04-2008, 12:47 AM
what would be an acceptable term to use for 10 rounds or less magazine and 11 rounds or more magazines that is simple term
10 rounds or fewer -> "legal for non-LEO to buy in California"
11 rounds or more -> "NOT legal for non-LEO to buy in California"

It's long, but accurate.

I'm still on the quest for a non gender specific singular third party possessive pronoun

you seem to be the word police can you help me with that one
"His or her" works for me; however, much as it grates on my ear, 'their' used to be acceptable, and according to a PhD grammarian of my acquaintance, there was no good reason for that to have changed. See also link (http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html).

As to 'word police', clearly I have no means to enforce. 'Adaptable gadfly' might be closer. And since it seems to mean so much to you, I'll refrain from that role when responding to your posts.

bohoki
04-04-2008, 1:17 AM
10 rounds or fewer -> "legal for non-LEO to buy in California"
11 rounds or more -> "NOT legal for non-LEO to buy in California"

It's long, but accurate.


"His or her" works for me; however, much as it grates on my ear, 'their' used to be acceptable, and according to a PhD grammarian of my acquaintance, there was no good reason for that to have changed. See also link (http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html).

As to 'word police', clearly I have no means to enforce. 'Adaptable gadfly' might be closer. And since it seems to mean so much to you, I'll refrain from that role when responding to your posts.

well since we are in california and california has a legally defined term "large-capacity magazine" to define any magazine holding 11 or more you are going to have to get used to it

as to the word quest there have been movments to have "em's" or more recently "yo's" to be a singular non gender third party possessive and with the wackos at websters dictionary (who seem to be in the pocket of the scrabble lobby)
expect them to become "promulant" a combo of prominent and prevalent

SmithAndJohnson
04-04-2008, 1:25 AM
The law says nothing about owning or using hi-cap magazines. The only restrictions are on importing and selling.

As pointed out above, as a LEO, your friend is exempt from those restrictions for his personal use. He cannot, however, give/ sell/ lend/ gift the magazines to anyone else.
I hate to be a stickler on this detail when it's not relevant to the discussion at hand, but for anyone else who runs across this thread in some future Google search... the only restrictions are on importing, selling... and manufacturing. :)

mymonkeyman
04-04-2008, 1:38 AM
I hate to be a stickler on this detail when it's not relevant to the discussion at hand, but for anyone else who runs across this thread in some future Google search... the only restrictions are on importing, selling... and manufacturing. :)

"manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine."

aileron
04-04-2008, 1:53 PM
ok then how many rounds does a normal magazine hold?


Ask the question in a pre-ban world? Whats a high capacity magazine?

Well its a magazine that holds more than the original designed capacity of the firearm. So if a Beretta 92fs holds 15+1 in 1985 anything bigger than 15 is high capacity.

gordoe
04-04-2008, 4:45 PM
I WANT A 33 ROUNDER FOR MY G26!!!!!!! HOPEFULLY MY LEO COUSIN GETS ONE AND LET ME FIRE OUT OF IT AT THE RANGE!