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nightdog
04-02-2008, 10:03 PM
Is there a recommendation of an attorney that specializes, or has experience with, california gun laws?

I'm moving to California and would like to have a discussion about the legality of my AOW.

Thanks

M. Sage
04-02-2008, 10:11 PM
I moved this to 2A for better exposure and because it's a better fit.

Gun lawyers in CA, some really great ones have a link at the lower left of this web page. Just scroll down to the bottom and you'll find it on the left.

bwiese
04-02-2008, 10:21 PM
Is there a recommendation of an attorney that specializes, or has experience with,
California gun laws?

I'm moving to California and would like to have a discussion about the legality of my AOW.


Please describe your AOW...
... is it no buttstock + pistol grip + barrel shorter than 18" + overall length shorter than 26"?

If you have a legit, NFA-registered AOW that is not also categorized as another entity under CA law (such as an assault weapon) it falls out of control of CA's 12020 "thou shalt not possess..." laws.

An 870 that does not have a rotating cylinder would indeed fall into such a category. An AOW configured as per my list above, and on NFA registry assigned to you is indeed an AOW under CA law and is NOT an illegal SBS or other no-no-in-CA firearm. There are in fact quite a few legally in CA.

In particular we have, from our Calif Penal Code:
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment
in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:

(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers
or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any ... <<snipped list of all sorts of weird crap>> ...
any unconventional pistol, .... any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, ....


(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
.
.
.
(8) Any other weapon as defined in subsection (e) of Section 5845 of Title 26 of the United States
Code and which is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the weapons pursuant to the
federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant
thereto. Any person prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or
8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing these weapons who obtains title to these
weapons by bequest or intestate succession may retain title for not more than one year, but actual
possession of these weapons at any time is punishable pursuant to Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101
of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code. Within the year, the person
shall transfer title to the weapons by sale, gift, or other disposition. Any person who violates this
paragraph is in violation of subdivision (a). The exemption provided in this subdivision does not apply
to pen guns.


What the above says: if you have an NFA-registered AOW (and which is not prohibited by other means), it falls out of control of CA "thou shalt not..." weapons law because it falls out of SBS (short-bbl'd shotgun) and 'unconventional pistol' categorizations. (C&R/antiques fall out too.)

I do believe you have to contact the BATF to let 'em know you're moving to another state.

ke6guj
04-02-2008, 11:13 PM
I do believe you have to contact the BATF to let 'em know you're moving to another state.

Yup, you file a http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f532020.pdf with the NFA with the address that you are moving to. In Box 2, check NO to show that the firearm is being permanently relocated to the new location and that it is not a temporary trip.


Duh, actually an AOW is exempt from needing a 5320.20 filed, but some people do file them as it doesn't hurt as an addtional safeguard to show that it is legal.

Quiet
04-02-2008, 11:17 PM
Yup, you file a http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f532020.pdf with the NFA with the address that you are moving to. In Box 2, check NO to show that the firearm is being permanently relocated to the new location and that it is not a temporary trip.


Duh, actually an AOW is exempt from needing a 5320.20 filed, but some people do file them as it doesn't hurt as an addtional safeguard to show that it is legal.

You also have to get approval, prior to relocating with the NFA item.

If your approval is denied then you have to either store it in the state you are moving from or sell it.

ke6guj
04-02-2008, 11:39 PM
You also have to get approval, prior to relocating with the NFA item.



5320.20 is the approval form you file for most NFA items, but is not requried for AOWs or silencers. Like I said, some people do file 5320.20s for AOW/silencers when transporting interstate, but it isn't required. They use it when paper-flooding an officer to show the legality. And even thoough it isn't required, the ATF will process the 5320.20 for you and approve if legal to do so.

A written request and prior authorization from ATF to transport interstate or in foreign commerce any destructive device, machinegun, short-barreled
rifle, or short-barreled shotgun is required under the provisions of Section 922 (a)(4), Title 18, U.S.C., and Section 478.28, Title 27, CFR, a letter of
request, in duplicate, containing all information required on this form, may be submitted in lieu of the form.Note that AOW and silencer is not listed in the instructions and are not referenced in Section 922 (a)(4), Title 18, U.S.C., or Section 478.28, Title 27, CFR.

If your approval is denied then you have to either store it in the state you are moving from or sell itIf denied, you do have options, you can leave it in the original state in a secure location that only you ahve access to or you could file the 5320.20 to move it to a closer state, such as NV, AZ, or OR where you could store it in a secure location.

nightdog
04-03-2008, 12:36 AM
Bill, good to know there are quite a few AOWs in Ca.

Its the remington 870 mcs kit, contains 3 barrel lengths and 2 stocks, one is soley pistol grip, the other shoulder stock w\p grip. heres a link to it:

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/870mcs.htm

I got one of the early ones that was still classified as an AOW by the BATFE so i have the $5 tax stamp.
Classification shifted for the kit at some point and current production is considered sbs due to the swappable stock. I never have, nor ever will, attach the buttstock with either of the shorter barrels attached - very happy not to need soap on a rope.
I've been thinking of storing the shorter barrels here in WA, or the shoulder stock.
I bought it last year here after the AG clarified that AOWs are not shotguns under WA state law (transfers were on hold for a while pending this, internal to WA, clarification. Its rumored the cause of the hold was that someone with a ccp showed a trooper an AOW under his coat and told him it was legal, the trooper wasn't amused and it snowballed from there).
heres the AG clarification that opened the door again:
http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?section=archive&id=14312
fwiw, WA does not allow sbs.

i have other nfa items which are not legal in CA, so they are staying here.

Waingro
04-03-2008, 5:59 AM
Totally lost but you might be able to get that short 870 into CA?!?!:confused::eek:

bwiese
04-03-2008, 10:02 AM
Bill, good to know there are quite a few AOWs in Ca.

Its the remington 870 mcs kit, contains 3 barrel lengths and 2 stocks, one is soley pistol grip, the other shoulder stock w\p grip. heres a link to it:

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/870mcs.htm

I got one of the early ones that was still classified as an AOW by the BATFE so i have the $5 tax stamp.

Classification shifted for the kit at some point and current production is considered sbs due to the swappable stock. I never have, nor ever will, attach the buttstock with either of the shorter barrels attached - very happy not to need soap on a rope.

I've been thinking of storing the shorter barrels here in WA, or the shoulder stock.

I bought it last year here after the AG clarified that AOWs are not shotguns under WA state law ...


Nightdog,

Having the extra shorty bbls for your AOW in CA fine - they have a legit replacement/configuration function for your NFA'd AOW that is (as per above discussion of 12020(b)(8), exempt in CA and which is not an SBS or 'unconventional pistol').

I would NOT possess the regular shoulder stock on your AOW *unless* you happened also to legit possess a separate, regular 18" bbl + 26" min OAL 870 (say, something akin to a Mossberg 500 "Cruiser"-type firearm - which is also not a shotgun under Fed law and CA law).

You don't want to constructively possess an SBS by possessing a legal AOW + a part that turns it into an SBS (unless you have a legit outcome for the other part for a regular 870 as well). While this appears to be OK on Fed basis given your info from Feds and the fact you have special classification for your kit before the cutoff date for it, it may well be different in CA for CA SBS so don't risk it here, just bring in the 870 AOW and no stock.