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View Full Version : Taking pre-ban mags out and in Cali, guidelines?


Steyr_223
04-02-2008, 4:13 PM
Going to Portland Oregon this summer for a visit and plan to take my U15 and Prince 50 equipment OLLs along with my standard cap preban mags...I assume there are no issues bringing them (the hi-caps) back into Cali since these were all purchase before the ban..

Some guidelines I thought up, anything to add?

1) Drive legally and don't draw attention.
2) Dont tell anyone you have them.
3) Keep the mags hidden in a suitcase or backpack.
4) Take proof of purchase, if you have them.
5) Take a dated picture of the standard cap mags with a California landmark (Golden Gate Bridge, Gavin Newsom, Iggy Chinn, Bill Wiese etc)
6) Dismantle the mags before you enter California.


Anything else to add?

JeffM
04-02-2008, 4:16 PM
6) Dismantle the mags before you enter California.


Why?

Shotgun Man
04-02-2008, 4:21 PM
I don't know that I would bother with dismantling the mags.

That may be overkill and begs the question of why would you dissassemble them if they were legal? Some cops might not be able to comprehend your reasoning and think you were you trying to unlawfully import hi-caps.


Cal Pen Code 12020:
"(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
[...]
(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state."

Glock22Fan
04-02-2008, 4:49 PM
It would be good if you could get some respectable person in California to attest that you were in possession of X such magazines prior to your leaving the state.

Have that in writing, have a copy with you and you should be good.

Steyr_223
04-02-2008, 5:13 PM
"6) Dismantle the mags before you enter California."


I was on the fence on that one. However, a dismantled mag is just parts so. They should be 100% if you had them before the ban. But yea, should remove it.


Glock22Fan, I like your idea. Maybe a notary public? Have him/her write something up that I had x number of 30rd mags on April 2, 2008 in Santa Clara county..etc..

Josh3239
04-02-2008, 5:22 PM
Portland is supposed to be very nice, I'd like to go up there some time myself. My dad's friend was a rich California kid until his dad cut him off financially so he moved up to Oregon because it is cheaper. Now he and his dad have made up but he refuses to move himself and his family out of Oregon because he likes it so much.

Have fun!

hellaguy
04-02-2008, 5:31 PM
Why would you have to prove anything? The burden of proof is on them.

M. Sage
04-02-2008, 5:34 PM
Exactly. Don't over-think it, man. They're just mags, and they're legal.

bwiese
04-02-2008, 6:00 PM
I fly with preban mags and reg'd AWs to/from CA all the time w/o worries.

capo
04-02-2008, 6:07 PM
I fly with preban mags and reg'd AWs to/from CA all the time w/o worries.

Same here.

artherd
04-02-2008, 11:53 PM
Via air? They don't give a poop, and see some much cooler toys than yours. (think full auto suppressed MP5s.)

I just returned from the So-Cal BWO party with my FN 5.7, 2 fully loaded 20 round pre-ban mags, and 500 rounds in boxes, all in the same case. Know what TSA said? "Cool". I taught the airline baggage check girl how to check a chamber too. (not like that. ;)

You're being paranoid, fly with your legal big-boy toys, and enjoy.

Going to Portland Oregon this summer for a visit and plan to take my U15 and Prince 50 equipment OLLs along with my standard cap preban mags...I assume there are no issues bringing them (the hi-caps) back into Cali since these were all purchase before the ban..

Some guidelines I thought up, anything to add?

1) Drive legally and don't draw attention.
2) Dont tell anyone you have them.
3) Keep the mags hidden in a suitcase or backpack.
4) Take proof of purchase, if you have them.
5) Take a dated picture of the standard cap mags with a California landmark (Golden Gate Bridge, Gavin Newsom, Iggy Chinn, Bill Wiese etc)
6) Dismantle the mags before you enter California.


Anything else to add?

Steyr_223
04-03-2008, 1:29 AM
Thanks guys, I have been accused of being paranoid many times..

I actually drive to Oregon and back..Like to checkout the small towns..I only fly there at Christmas..

fireblast713
04-03-2008, 3:44 AM
I just returned from the So-Cal BWO party with my FN 5.7, 2 fully loaded 20 round pre-ban mags.

I was under the impression that the 5-7 was released after the high cap ban went into affect?

I also thought all ammunition had to be in closed containers (magazines are specifically excluded), which airline did you fly on?

11Z50
04-03-2008, 9:09 AM
I've flown to TX and VA lately with my carry piece (full cap mags) and it went real smooth. I would highly recommend contacting the carrier prior to your flight since there are some minor differences in their rules. One required locked container, empty mags w/gun. Ammo was OK in a factory box, in same checked bag. Another carrier wanted ammo in a separate bag. A third didn't care as long as the weapon was unloaded and in a locked container. All asked me to show them the pistol was unloaded, then lock it in the container. They put a little TSA tag on it that said "unloaded firearm" or something like that. At no time did anybody even ask about mags.

pullnshoot25
04-03-2008, 9:37 AM
Ummm... how about not mentioning them and just going about your day-to-day business? Without a serial number or a "hey, this magazine was made after such a date" on it, you are in the clear.

Besides, what are the chances that some cop will be pulling you over and you will be willing to let him search your car?

ARRRR-15
04-03-2008, 9:54 AM
Why not leave your mags here and buy more while you are there? How much a does a 30rd mag cost there, like $10? Unless you got a beta mag you want to play with out there. This way you can always diassemble them and have spare parts for your currently owed mags.

artherd
04-03-2008, 12:55 PM
I was under the impression that the 5-7 was released after the high cap ban went into affect?

You are mistaken. The magazines were available in 98; albit not widely. The gun was not drop-test legal in CA until very recently however.

I also thought all ammunition had to be in closed containers (magazines are specifically excluded), which airline did you fly on?
Airline policy varies. I have flown in the above configuration with Southwest, United, Delta, and American off the top of my head.

artherd
04-03-2008, 12:56 PM
Also, possession of high capacity magazines is not controlled.

torsf
04-03-2008, 6:06 PM
Ummm... how about not mentioning them and just going about your day-to-day business? Without a serial number or a "hey, this magazine was made after such a date" on it, you are in the clear.

Besides, what are the chances that some cop will be pulling you over and you will be willing to let him search your car?

Would the date matter? You could have rebuilt your magazine...

MonsterMan
04-03-2008, 6:12 PM
I had a guy from the DOJ BOF tell me that if I was out with my pre-ban mags, they would be confiscated if I was caught shooting with them. I said I had them legally and he said if I couldn't prove it, the officers would just take them and be on their way basically. Who in the world has receipts for mags they bough 15 years ago?

I just rolled my eyes and didn't argue with him. I know what the law says.

EagleRider
04-04-2008, 6:24 PM
If you really want to prove that you had them before your trip lay them out on a newspaper and take pictures of them. That should easily cover the date and proof issue. Other than that, you could leave them with family in Oregon since you can't legally use them here anyway.
Just a thought.

DRM6000
04-04-2008, 6:47 PM
...since you can't legally use them here anyway.
Just a thought.

just fyi, there is no law prohibiting possession or use.

EagleRider
04-04-2008, 7:58 PM
Thanks for the correction, What I meant to refer to was the post-ban magazines that are no longer legal for purchase in Cali.

Eaglerider

Harrison_Bergeron
04-04-2008, 8:02 PM
They're still legal to possess.

guns_and_labs
04-04-2008, 8:29 PM
You are mistaken. The magazines were available in 98; albit not widely. The gun was not drop-test legal in CA until very recently however.



That's correct. I did find some, but it was hard. I didn't buy the pistol until later, but I was determined to find magazines for every pistol made before the ban. Of course, the early mags needed some work...

DRM6000
04-05-2008, 10:24 AM
Thanks for the correction, What I meant to refer to was the post-ban magazines that are no longer legal for purchase in Cali.

Eaglerider


well, a person could very well have a post-ban magazine, if enough new replacement parts are used to rebuild a pre-ban mag.

FlyingPen
04-08-2008, 10:31 PM
How do you prove that you owned the pre-ban mags before the ban?

I met a guy at the range a few months ago using a high cap mag and it certainly looked pre-ban. He was however I think 22, which means he would have been too young to even purchase a firearm before the ban took place. Now, I'm not saying there's an age limit to buying firearms parts but unless you had solid paperwork showing you bought these (receipt, etc) before the ban, it seems it wouldn't hold up in court if it ever got that far. I think then anyone can just buy a bunch of preban mags and claim they had it before the ban which doesn't seem legal.

hoffmang
04-08-2008, 11:07 PM
One does not have to prove that a magazine is pre-ban. The state has to prove it was assembled or imported by you after the ban. There are a few cases where that can happen - but not many.

-Gene

FreedomIsNotFree
04-08-2008, 11:28 PM
If you are that paranoid there is a simple solution, but it may cost you a few dollars.

Use a notary.

Simply write out an affidavit and bring the mags in with you. You can use a notary public to create certified, court-admissible evidence. They are officers of the court.

mymonkeyman
04-09-2008, 12:01 AM
If you are that paranoid there is a simple solution, but it may cost you a few dollars.

Use a notary.

Simply write out an affidavit and bring the mags in with you. You can use a notary public to create certified, court-admissible evidence. They are officers of the court.

I don't see how an affidavit is any better evidence than your word. All the notarization does is show that you really said it at a certain date. If that date is after the ban, what does it prove?

Anyways, nowadays most courts accept signed declarations interchangeably with notarized affidavits. Lastly, regulation of notaries is by the Secretary of State, not the State Supreme Court (at least in California), meaning they are not officers of the court.

FreedomIsNotFree
04-09-2008, 12:20 AM
As I said, "if you are that paranoid"...

A certified affidavit that you owned an item prior to leaving the State is a layer of protection. That layer in addition to the State's burden should put anyone that is paranoid at ease.

The OP said he was "paranoid" about taking his 30 rd. mags out of the State and bringing them back in. If he could prove that he had the mags in the State prior to leaving the State isn't it pretty obvious how that would benefit him?

Agreed, in CA notaries aren't "officers" of the court, but their oath and affirmation is evidence.

mymonkeyman
04-09-2008, 12:48 AM
As I said, "if you are that paranoid"...

A certified affidavit that you owned an item prior to leaving the State is a layer of protection. That layer in addition to the State's burden should put anyone that is paranoid at ease.

The OP said he was "paranoid" about taking his 30 rd. mags out of the State and bringing them back in. If he could prove that he had the mags in the State prior to leaving the State isn't it pretty obvious how that would benefit him?

Agreed, in CA notaries aren't "officers" of the court, but their oath and affirmation is evidence.

My point is that a nefarious individual could write out an affidavit that they possessed certain large-capacity magazines in California on a certain date, completely lying, get it notarized, and then illegally import the magazines. The notary is only evidence that you signed something, not evidence that what you signed is actually true.

You'd be better off taking a picture of yourself with the large-capacity magazines in front of some California landmark while holding the day's newspaper or something (not really good proof of date because you can always later get old newspapers, but you get the idea).