Anyone apply for a CCW in Sacramento County?

[rue]

Just wondering, I picked up my application today and I plan on submitting it and was wondering how many actually apply. I heard McGinness on talk radio this morning encouraging county residents to apply if they have a reason for one. I though CCW's were on hold right now but I figure a denial will at least get me a reason to open carry :rolleyes:

[MadMex]

move up north a county and you'll get one

Moving east one county is also a reasonable bet.

[Lee F. Smith]

Actually a denial would have to be explained away, in this case easy, but your chances are slim to none. If it is important enough you will need to move to a county that understands that they can not protect you. If you are tied to that fine city, you have my sympathy.:(

[Ironchef]

Sac County, like Contra Costa county is colored as a "no permit" county. I read their requirements today, and their "good cause" requirements are those lofty reasons like having dodged a minimum of 50 bullets a week for the last 10 weeks straight.

[supersonic]

Been there. Done that. DENIED. Did the appeal. DENIED Was told a YEAR later by Detective Steve Cotta (from "Special" Investigations Bureau) that the Sheriff's dept. is "much, much more strict on issuance than we were a year ago." Oh, and Cotta was the dude who denied my application & my appeal. He'll deny yours, too. 100% guaranteed. Don't do it. You don't (for some reason) want even one denial on record. This is why I open carry now. Actually, I have Cotta to thank for 2 things: 1) I realized it is perfectly legal and within my rights to carry openly, and 2) since it is plain to all who "check you out" that you are packing, you actually reduce the chances of a violent confrontation vs. someone who carries concealed!!!!!! Thanks, Cotta & John Mc!!!!!!!!!:D;)

[JeffCinSac]

...wait, what's the difference?

During the election, I asked him his position on the issue. Here's his (redacted, bold added by me) response:

"Essentially my response is as follows. I understand and support the Second Amendment to the Constitution. I am also very mindful of the fact that states such as Arizona and Florida have experienced significant reduction in violent crime when citizens have been allowed to be armed. Under existing California law, there is significant latitude as to how local jurisdictions will issue CCW permits. While I do not have first hand experience with the other jurisdictions you referenced in your questionnaire, I do believe that the issuance of CCW permits to responsible individuals who can demonstrate sufficient knowledge of the law, and the physiological effects of the discharge of a firearm (understanding the potential of hitting unintended targets, or secondary victims) is appropriate. Many of my friends have suggested that any person who is not convicted of a felony should be issued a CCW permit upon request. Frankly, that may be what you want to hear from me, and appreciate that position from a philosophical standpoint. However, I must be honest with you; that does not represent my beliefs. For example, OJ Simpson has never been convicted of a felony, yet I believe (as does the jury in his civil trial) that he murdered his ex-wife and her friend. I would not want Mr. Simpson to be in possession of a CCW with my signature on it. There are also people who lack the physical ability or mental function to responsibly handle a weapon, someone you would not want to be shooting along side of at the firing range. I would not be inclined to issue a CCW to such an individual if they could not successfully demonstrate sufficient aptitude.

I appreciate your passion and enthusiasm for a topic that should be of great interest to all Americans. Regardless of your decision, I wish you well.

John McGinness"

Nothing about "cause," just knowledge of the law and sufficient training/ability, plus a lack of a major moral disqualifier (like probably killing your ex-wife). Does that jive with his practices? No.

Me advice is to move on over to Placer Co. (maybe I should change my screen name to JeffCinPlacer), get your license, and vote accordingly. Let Sacramento Co. and its lying sheriff rot in hell where it belongs. :eek:

-J

[simonov]

Nothing about "cause," just knowledge of the law and sufficient training/ability, plus a lack of a major moral disqualifier (like probably killing your ex-wife). Does that jive with his practices? No.

You read what you wanted to read in his reply. It sounds to me he is performing exactly as he promised you: issuing CCWs based entirely on his subjective feelings. After all, unless OJ has been convicted of a crime, he is as entitled to a CCW as anyone else, no matter the sheriff's personal feelings about his guilt or innocence.

[Glock22Fan]

unless OJ has been convicted of a crime

Seems like they have him cold for armed robbery in Vegas (or am I out of date?). Guess that's enough to ruin his chances of a CCW, past history notwithstanding.

[gravygrabber]

Been there. Done that. DENIED. Did the appeal. DENIED Was told a YEAR later by Detective Steve Cotta (from "Special" Investigations Bureau) that the Sheriff's dept. is "much, much more strict on issuance than we were a year ago." Oh, and Cotta was the dude who denied my application & my appeal. He'll deny yours, too. 100% guaranteed. Don't do it. You don't (for some reason) want even one denial on record. This is why I open carry now. Actually, I have Cotta to thank for 2 things: 1) I realized it is perfectly legal and within my rights to carry openly, and 2) since it is plain to all who "check you out" that you are packing, you actually reduce the chances of a violent confrontation vs. someone who carries concealed!!!!!! Thanks, Cotta & John Mc!!!!!!!!!:D;)


Having a denial doesn't mean anything...

[rue]

No offense but please don't post on this thread "you won't get one" or "move to a different area" etc.. I'm asking for the experience of others in my county not opinions on if I'll get one or looking for suggestions on places CCW is easier to get. I'm not moving out of my city because the Sheriff is wrong.

[bulgron]

No offense but please don't post on this thread "you won't get one" or "move to a different area" etc.. I'm asking for the experience of others in my county not opinions on if I'll get one or looking for suggestions on places CCW is easier to get. I'm not moving out of my city because the Sheriff is wrong.

This is probably not the best message board to be asking the question you're asking. CalCCW (http://www.calccw.com/Forums/) seems to be a site designed to support people who are actually going through the CCW application process in California. They are not a political advocacy board (or so they've told me), but instead seem focused on the practical nuts and bolts of the process itself.

You should try asking your questions there, since you seem more interested in the mechanical process in Sacramento County, than in the political angle this board usually addresses.

[InvictusManeo]

This is probably not the best message board to be asking the question you're asking. CalCCW (http://www.calccw.com/Forums/) seems to be a site designed to support people who are actually going through the CCW application process in California. They are not a political advocacy board (or so they've told me), but instead seem focused on the practical nuts and bolts of the process itself.

You should try asking your questions there, since you seem more interested in the mechanical process in Sacramento County, than in the political angle this board usually addresses.

+1. They're very friendly and helpful with the process over there.

[rue]

This is probably not the best message board to be asking the question you're asking. CalCCW (http://www.calccw.com/Forums/) seems to be a site designed to support people who are actually going through the CCW application process in California. They are not a political advocacy board (or so they've told me), but instead seem focused on the practical nuts and bolts of the process itself.

You should try asking your questions there, since you seem more interested in the mechanical process in Sacramento County, than in the political angle this board usually addresses.

Yeah well look up Sacramento county and you get the same old "you won't get one" BS. A friend of mine got one awhile back so I know it's not true. I think people that "want one" turn it into a "you won't get one" when it's because they didn't have a good reason.

[Ironchef]

Rue,
I apologize if my tone was negative or if it suggested you shouldn't try. I think you should try (and likely fail) so that there's a record of it. TBJ is asking for people to not give up, but to try anyway (with their free help) so that there's records of people trying. The CPD/CSD want you not to try so they can say nobody's trying..and they don't have to risk getting busted for not honoring the constution of both the state and country (2a and 14a) from what I gather. A class action suite against a department failing people on purpose without a fair shot is the goal apparently, and I think it's a worthy one..as long as there are people willing to commit (by trying and failing). If I had the $500+ to blow trying in CCC, I would be happy to commit..even if I had the failed ccw attempt on my record (whatever that means).

[bulgron]

Yeah well look up Sacramento county and you get the same old "you won't get one" BS. A friend of mine got one awhile back so I know it's not true. I think people that "want one" turn it into a "you won't get one" when it's because they didn't have a good reason.

Well, ask your friend how he got his then. And if you manage to figure out how to get one, be sure to come back and tell us about your experience. So far, when we say that the "bad issuing" counties only issue for special political favors, or upon extraordinary cause, no one has come back with a real-world first-person story about how that is not true for the bad-issuing county in which they live.

Instead, we have TBJ telling us that every county they've looked at is breaking the law where CCW issuance is concerned.

[Anthonysmanifesto]

Just wondering, I picked up my application today and I plan on submitting it and was wondering how many actually apply. I heard McGinness on talk radio this morning encouraging county residents to apply if they have a reason for one. I though CCW's were on hold right now but I figure a denial will at least get me a reason to open carry :rolleyes:

There several cities.. do you live in any of them?

you would want to start with your Polcie chief first

[gravygrabber]

There several cities.. do you live in any of them?

you would want to start with your Polcie chief first

I live in Sacramento City. I heard you have to go through the Sheriff's dept. here.

[rue]

I just got back home from driving down to downtown to submit my application which you can only do between 9am and 11am on Thursdays only. I got there only to see a notice on the glass window that said "No CCW's today, 3/27/08"
I ask the officers why and he said the person who does them isn't avail. today. WTF?
This is why I think everyone should submit an application. It's bad enough it's one day a week for two hours that you can submit one but it really takes the cake when you show up at said time and they have nobody to take your application...If that person should be there at all it should be that day at the times posted. Now I understand why McGinness is in so much trouble with the CCW process.

[Stormfeather]

Rue, are you in Sacramento Proper or the outlying cities? Citrus Hghts, Elk Grove, etc etc? I applied and got mine, but it was a lengthy process. You definitely need to have a good cause and have the knowledge and background to merit one. I know this is messed up compared to other counties, but as Sacramento is the state capital, it is a bit harder there. I also know of several folks who have applied and its about 50/50 on getting one. Its a little bit different than when the other guy was in office, at least the current Sheriff is a little bit more open to the idea vs the good ole boy contributing network of past. Dont be afraid, just go do it. Dont let the deputies tell you not to apply, just go do it. Have your ducks in a row, and always be polite and forthwith about everything and you stand as good a chance as anyone else.

[Stormfeather]

I just got back home from driving down to downtown to submit my application which you can only do between 9am and 11am on Thursdays only. I got there only to see a notice on the glass window that said "No CCW's today, 3/27/08"
I ask the officers why and he said the person who does them isn't avail. today. WTF?
This is why I think everyone should submit an application. It's bad enough it's one day a week for two hours that you can submit one but it really takes the cake when you show up at said time and they have nobody to take your application...If that person should be there at all it should be that day at the times posted. Now I understand why McGinness is in so much trouble with the CCW process.

I ran into this as well. I took to calling ahead and making sure that theywould be accepting app's that day. There is only one guy who does it, and he does get swamped at times, so be patient, its a gov't process, and we all know how fast the gov't works at any level! :D

[rue]

Rue, are you in Sacramento Proper or the outlying cities? Citrus Hghts, Elk Grove, etc etc? I applied and got mine, but it was a lengthy process. You definitely need to have a good cause and have the knowledge and background to merit one. I know this is messed up compared to other counties, but as Sacramento is the state capital, it is a bit harder there. I also know of several folks who have applied and its about 50/50 on getting one. Its a little bit different than when the other guy was in office, at least the current Sheriff is a little bit more open to the idea vs the good ole boy contributing network of past. Dont be afraid, just go do it. Dont let the deputies tell you not to apply, just go do it. Have your ducks in a row, and always be polite and forthwith about everything and you stand as good a chance as anyone else.

I'm in the city of Sacramento. I'm applying because I own my own business and carry cash from location to location.

[GuyW]

+1. They're very friendly and helpful with the process over there.

...unless you are banned because you don't drink their "I Know a Guy" koolaid.

...and if you're in Orange County, don't get upset if they talk to the Sheriff's officials about you and your CCW desires, with the intent to torpedo your chances...

[Anthonysmanifesto]

I live in Sacramento City. I heard you have to go through the Sheriff's dept. here.

you go through your jurisdiction

thats the city.

then you can go to the sheriff

then thats it

[rue]

you go through your jurisdiction

thats the city.

then you can go to the sheriff

then thats it

Does the city PD offer them? I heard the same thing so I went directly to the Sheriff

[bulgron]

...and if you're in Orange County, don't get upset if they talk to the Sheriff's officials about you and your CCW desires, with the intent to torpedo your chances...

What? Why would they do that?

The last time I was over there, they were whining about how not very many people apply for a CCW.

[GuyW]

What? Why would they do that?


Who knows?

*Maybe* for "good" reasons...but then, wouldn't the S.O. flush a bad applicant anyway?

*Maybe* just a public flexing of A Guy's alleged political muscle for his adoring groupies...

*Maybe* its written in a footnote in the "Subject Matter Expert's Handbook"...

Anyway, it's not like it's a transparent dialogue...

.

[supersonic]

Yeah well look up Sacramento county and you get the same old "you won't get one" BS. A friend of mine got one awhile back so I know it's not true. I think people that "want one" turn it into a "you won't get one" when it's because they didn't have a good reason.

That's almost exactly how I felt, until I realized that my denial "letter" & my "appeal denial letter" were copies of the exact same form-letter that our boy up in his office has his secretary pull off a huge pile of them, just so she can date and stamp 'em for most all applicants (when you get yours, look at it. Where's your name? If you appeal, look at the second letter. VERY familiar, huh? Again, no name (unless you happen to be named "TO: CCW Applicant." BTW, your "friend" that "got one" must either be filthy-rich (MAJOR contributor to our boy's political career) or filthy-rich ' n' famous. Kinda like D**kbrain Stallone. But I think I speak for most of the people on here that responded with things you didn't want to hear. We are NOT out to discourage you with some "hidden agenda", and we're not trying to be jerk-offs. It's just that a lot of us have actually been through the process and have witnessed FIRST HAND what goes on. But, hey - not one of us is stopping you. Just remember this in a couple of months: "I coulda' had a great lunch w/ that $20 I lit on fire!, DAMN!!" Peace, man & the best of luck to you!:)

[CSDGuy]

From what I can tell, Sheriff McGinness is actually a very pro gun/CCW guy. He wants to be re-elected. Daniels (I think that was his name) also ran for Sheriff on a shall-issue CCW platform. McGinness was more moderate. Guess who got the $$$$$ and got elected?

Has ANYONE gotten a NEW CCW in Sacramento County from the SSD since McGinness has taken over? I do not mean renewal... I mean from no CCW to holding the rice paper. Anyone?

[rue]

BTW, your "friend" that "got one" must either be filthy-rich (MAJOR contributor to our boy's political career) or filthy-rich ' n' famous.

Actually he owns his own business as a tool truck driver and he goes to dealers and shops selling tools. He carries a lot of money so that was his reason.

[Monkeybits]

I'm actually the caller who stumbled over the question since they were prompting me I was out of time. Following the response, which really ticked me off, I sent Sheriff McGinness this e-mail, which I realize will not change his mind, but sincerely hope will plant some seed in his thoughts that lawful gun owners aren't the scum of the earth.

Good morning, Sheriff McGinness,

I sincerely appreciate your guest appearance this morning on the Armstrong & Getty show. Unlike the caller who blind sided you, I think making yourself accessible to your constituents is a fantastic policy. In fact, doing so may well be considered a very important part of your duties, as you're not a "beat cop" as it were, but responsible for high level running of the department.

I called and asked why we do not have a "shall issue" policy with regard to CCWs. Your answer was very reasonable, but I still disagree strongly. With regard to OJ Simpson, when he was arrested in the now famous murder case, he had no permit, but was illegally carrying a firearm. As I'm sure you're aware, restrictive CCW permits don't stop criminals from carrying guns, they only block lawful owners from doing so.

Further, the current policy really amounts to a "shall not issue" policy. As you're also aware, almost no permits are ever issued in Sacramento County. In fact, the policy has resulted in the investigation of your predecessor and suits for failure to provide equal protection to lawful citizens in our county.

When a citizen with the proper classwork wants to carry a firearm, he or she will be denied when they apply for a CCW in Sacramento county, and that denial will harm his or her chances of every receiving a CCW in any county in the future. I fully intend to move out of California in the future; there's no place for a 2nd amendment advocate in much of our State, but don't see why this policy is in place when we have such a reasonable Sheriff in office.

I know you don't want citizens presenting firearms or shooting one another willy-nilly as it were, but in the states where shall issue policies are in place, that hasn't happened. Citizens in those locations come to the aid of their fellow lawful residents and also assist law enforcement officers in peril. They do so responsibly and have been assets in the areas they reside to their communities and the police forces serving them.

Sheriff McGiness, I trust you and your fine officers with my life and the lives of my family. I sincerely and fervently hope that same respect and trust will some day be afforded to me as a lawful gun owner by your department.

I look forward to further appearances on various radio programs and appreciate your continued willingness to answer tough questions and help enlighten the listening audience.

[ViPER395]

I want to see how this comes out.

[supersonic]

Rue,
I apologize if my tone was negative or if it suggested you shouldn't try. I think you should try (and likely fail) so that there's a record of it. TBJ is asking for people to not give up, but to try anyway (with their free help) so that there's records of people trying. The CPD/CSD want you not to try so they can say nobody's trying..and they don't have to risk getting busted for not honoring the constution of both the state and country (2a and 14a) from what I gather. A class action suite against a department failing people on purpose without a fair shot is the goal apparently, and I think it's a worthy one..as long as there are people willing to commit (by trying and failing). If I had the $500+ to blow trying in CCC, I would be happy to commit..even if I had the failed ccw attempt on my record (whatever that means).

Maybe it's just in my case, but when I asked for their help, they said (essentially) "NOPE." I appreciate what they are doing right now concerning CCW. Very much. But, I 'm only reporting a fact, in my case. It seems as though they might be more concentrated on So. Cal.:confused:

[Monkeybits]

I have the feeling that I know how most of this will turn out. I know my best option is really to move to a different county or state, which I eventually have every intention of doing. Nevertheless, the OJ Simpson argument he presented on the radio and evidently in response to other letters isn't valid, and he's aware of that.

Beyond wanting to exercise my 2nd Amendment right, I don't have "good cause" so I know I can't actually apply here in Sacramento County.

I do applaud the efforts of those who are doing so and believe they might make it through the process. Under the last Sheriff my Handgun Safety Class instructor told us about a friend with multiple documented death threats against him who was denied in Sacramento County until the Placer County Sheriff, a personal friend, interceded and explained exactly why the man needed to be able to defend himself.

I know I'm preaching to the choir but can't understand how any right as basic as self defense which predates the Constitution and is deliberately protected by it can possibly be denied me by a local Sheriff. I'm very happy that this community exists with and is willing to help work toward the restoration of rights government never had any right to suppress.

[MadMex]

No offense but please don't post on this thread "you won't get one" or "move to a different area" etc.. I'm asking for the experience of others in my county not opinions on if I'll get one or looking for suggestions on places CCW is easier to get. I'm not moving out of my city because the Sheriff is wrong.
Seriously, 4 years ago when I found out that I was moving back to Kali, for a job transfer to Sac metro, I conscientiously focused on buying a home outside city limits, in Placer county for this very reason. Although it added 35 minute to my commute, it’s well worth it.

God bless sheriff Bonner.

[supersonic]

Seriously, 4 years ago when I found out that I was moving back to Kali, for a job transfer to Sac metro, I conscientiously focused on buying a home outside city limits, in Placer county for this very reason. Although it added 35 minute to my commute, it’s well worth it.

God bless sheriff Bonner.

Good call, man. GOOD call.:)