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View Full Version : Potentially bad news about the SH IOR


wildcard
03-26-2008, 5:52 PM
Check out the last posts.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=500977&fpart=2

Dang.. and I wanted one too.. guess i'll have to wait until I see things worked out.

Cypriss32
03-26-2008, 6:09 PM
I think these scopes were RUSHED into production and into thehands of the members who paid for them. It seems you get a 75-25% of getting a bad one. 25% bad scope and 75% good one. Most are happy with them, with the exception of a few.

rksimple
03-26-2008, 6:32 PM
Mine was great before it took a dump. I would hold off and look at the street price on the ffp nightforce and the new PR scope.

Cypriss32
03-26-2008, 6:37 PM
YES WAIT Till the new Premier comes out.... I hope they offer gen2 XL.... 3-15x 50mm its gona be good. It wont be like the spider, or whatever spotter they tried to make.

Whos getting the USO spotter, Ryan?

rksimple
03-26-2008, 7:01 PM
Whos getting the USO spotter, Ryan?

Don't need it now with the 5-25 S&B. That thing is amazing.

wildcard
03-26-2008, 7:13 PM
Yeah.. I'm going to hold off until NF and PR comes out with their FFP. Not like I have the money for it right now anyways. Actually.. I just got another 10% raise.. so maybe I need to treat myself to something nice :)

I'm thinking about slapping my IOR 10X on my Grendel and putting something that allows me to be a little more competitive on my .308

The price on the SH IOR is sure right though..

rksimple
03-26-2008, 7:18 PM
The price on the SH IOR is sure right though..

If the thing would stay together it would be a winner. Unforunately, right now, the mantra "you get what you pay for" still rings true.

Cypriss32
03-26-2008, 7:18 PM
What about a 3-15x NF? Im seriously thinking about one. If you guys are using Laser RF at these matchs.... Whats the big deal. Once I get my data setup i can do without the FFP. BUt FFP is nice.

rksimple
03-26-2008, 7:20 PM
What about a 3-15x NF? Im seriously thinking about one. If you guys are using Laser RF at these matchs.... Whats the big deal. Once I get my data setup i can do without the FFP. BUt FFP is nice.

LRF aside, the most important feature of ffp is being able to hold off for wind, elevation, and for movers, at any power. If you must do all of the above on the highest power (15x or above), you'll have a hard time finding the targets, spotting misses, or holding on movers. After one trip to vegas for a match, your eyes will be opened. Ask Pete about it and his sfp 6.5-20x loopy.

wildcard
03-26-2008, 7:24 PM
What about a 3-15x NF? Im seriously thinking about one. If you guys are using Laser RF at these matchs.... Whats the big deal. Once I get my data setup i can do without the FFP. BUt FFP is nice.

It'll also effect your ability to hold off for elevation/wind/movement. You can always mathematically calculate it to compensate.. but that just complicates things.

rksimple
03-26-2008, 7:26 PM
Old news now...

Vu 308
03-26-2008, 7:32 PM
LRF aside, the most important feature of ffp is being able to hold off for wind, elevation, and for movers, at any power. If you must do all of the above on the highest power (15x or above), you'll have a hard time finding the targets, spotting misses, or holding on movers. After one trip to vegas for a match, your eyes will be opened. Ask Pete about it and his sfp 6.5-20x loopy.


+1

Hence the reason if you get a SFP scope go with something like 3-15X or 4-14X

Anything higher than that and you are pretty much screwed.

Another option is to dial to half power and double up all your incriments. However dialing to half power may not give you 2X the incriments exactly. You should go out and find out what power setting on your scope will give you 2Xs your incriments and mark it on your power ring.

Prc329
03-26-2008, 9:04 PM
I decided to wait until I can get an S&B. I figure it will be a nice Christmas present to myself.

rksimple
03-26-2008, 9:07 PM
I decided to wait until I can get an S&B. I figure it will be a nice Christmas present to myself.

You won't be disappointed. I'm flat amazed by this scope...wow...just wow...

Prc329
03-26-2008, 9:24 PM
I could buy it now but there is a little problem. Its called my wife. She wants me to spend money on my son's birthday party for some crazy reason. he is 1, he doesn't care. Also a thing called a front loading washing machine. What the hell do we need that for. Just get a stream and a rock. That's the way they used to do it.

aplinker
03-26-2008, 9:38 PM
Wow, on today of all days this all comes to light... I was about ready to pull the trigger on this... now I'm pretty much set on waiting :( I wish it were perfect, for the money it would be excellent, but I'm preachin to the choir here.

That S&B is just... so... nice...

I could buy it now but there is a little problem. Its called my wife. She wants me to spend money on my son's birthday party for some crazy reason. he is 1, he doesn't care. Also a thing called a front loading washing machine. What the hell do we need that for. Just get a stream and a rock. That's the way they used to do it.


What do you do when the washer quits working?



Tell her to get back in there and finish.

Next time you're at a party or around a group of people tell her that if she can find more than 2 people with personal memories of their 1y/o party it's all good. Parties for any 1y/o are always about the mom, never about the child. ;) However... don't blame me if you get smacked and or have to sleep on the couch. Peace in the home is far better than ANY scope... after all, she just might learn how to use it, and then where will you run?

Prc329
03-26-2008, 9:58 PM
Already tried that, didn't work. Just got me cut off for a little while. If you catch my drift :(

AS45-70
03-26-2008, 10:26 PM
Mine arrived Sat, i look forward to trying it out. One guy reporting an issue at does not mean anything at this point.

rksimple
03-26-2008, 10:30 PM
Mine arrived Sat, i look forward to trying it out. One guy reporting an issue at does not mean anything at this point.

Only when its the same exact issue that happened on 5 or 6 of the initial run (mine was the first) that was supposed to be fixed. It means something...time will tell.

Vu 308
03-26-2008, 10:32 PM
Mike Cecil just told me he has 3 of the USMC type of S&Bs in.

rksimple
03-26-2008, 10:33 PM
Mike Cecil just told me he has 3 of the USMC type of S&Bs in.

Are they the same 2250 that PR was charging? Dang thats tempting...I'm addicted.

Vu 308
03-26-2008, 10:34 PM
Call him and find out? I dont know to be honest. I am not a S&B fan

Prc329
03-26-2008, 10:36 PM
I'm actually afraid to look threw one. I like my IOR so much that I am scared to look threw an S&B before I can buy one. That is why I didn't ask Pete to look threw his USO.

Hmm, I think I can save enough by the end of summer or maybe November at the latest to where the wife won't notice :D

wildcard
03-26-2008, 10:43 PM
Only when its the same exact issue that happened on 5 or 6 of the initial run (mine was the first) that was supposed to be fixed. It means something...time will tell.

Not to mention that one out of a small handful equates to a significant percentage. Brings to light a lot of doubt when you specifically tried to address the same issue before.

wildcard
03-26-2008, 10:45 PM
You can't go wrong with either S&B or USO. I do think I like the USO a little more though..

rksimple
03-26-2008, 10:56 PM
You can't go wrong with either S&B or USO. I do think I like the USO a little more though..

With all the custom features, how could one not like USO? I wish I could get the S&B glass and reputation with an EREK knob and GAP reticle. Would be ideal. If USO's prices come down at all when NF and PR come online with FFP scopes, I may have to order one...or a couple...

wildcard
03-26-2008, 11:01 PM
I think I still may have to go for one of the SH IOR if the rest of the batch proves to be reliable. I like IORs and it has all the features that I want. Can't really go wrong with the price especially when it includes the rings!

MarcS
03-26-2008, 11:02 PM
I'm convinced about the benefits of FFP scopes after my trip to RO earlier this month. Not only does it help for movers but on closer range targets you can turn it down and make it easier to spot your impacts while still using the same holdovers/unders and wind hold off.

I tried using the halfway point and half the mil value hold idea on a 1.5 MOA mover at 400 yards from cover/barricade firing point. My brain was spinning while thinking about many things. The 35 MPH full value wind, how much to hold BEHIND the mover in one direction then calculate the hold in front from the other direction, crap the wind just changed speed, the impossible position over a 3' cement culvert, crap the wind just changed direction, safely transitioning between positions around and over the culvert, crap did that speed come back up, and guess what, I held my regular mil holds and missed.

There's no doubt in my mind that FFP scopes are the only way to go if you plan on using any kind of graduated reticle in rifle shooting.

Marc

rksimple
03-26-2008, 11:08 PM
I'm convinced about the benefits of FFP scopes after my trip to RO earlier this month. Not only does it help for movers but on closer range targets you can turn it down and make it easier to spot your impacts while still using the same holdovers/unders and wind hold off.

I tried using the halfway point and half the mil value hold idea on a 1.5 MOA mover at 400 yards from cover/barricade firing point. My brain was spinning while thinking about many things. The 35 MPH full value wind, how much to hold BEHIND the mover in one direction then calculate the hold in front from the other direction, crap the wind just changed speed, the impossible position over a 3' cement culvert, crap the wind just changed direction, safely transitioning between positions around and over the culvert, crap did that speed come back up, and guess what, I held my regular mil holds and missed.

There's no doubt in my mind that FFP scopes are the only way to go if you plan on using any kind of graduated reticle in rifle shooting.

Marc

Great description Marc. Often times it has to be experienced to be fully realized. Holding behind the mover, huh? Sounds fun.:D Hopefully we don't have that kind of wind for the big matches this year.

Timberwolf
03-27-2008, 12:24 AM
It'll also effect your ability to hold off for elevation/wind/movement. You can always mathematically calculate it to compensate.. but that just complicates things.

Complicate . . . I'd should say so . . . I don't have enough fingers and toes to do that kind of stuff.

ar15barrels
03-27-2008, 1:03 AM
Is the SnipersHide 3-18 still a second focal plane scope?
I saw no mention of first focal plane reticle on Liberty's spec page...

Prc329
03-27-2008, 1:28 AM
Is the SnipersHide 3-18 still a second focal plane scope?
I saw no mention of first focal plane reticle on Liberty's spec page...

Its a FFP.

ar15barrels
03-27-2008, 1:50 AM
Its a FFP.

Let me get this right then...

3-18 power
35mm tube
include TPS rings
FFP illuminated MP8 reticle
metric knobs with 10 mils of elevation in one rotation
Just under $1300

What's not to like?

LibertyOptics
03-27-2008, 6:41 AM
My website is not current. This is my fault.

The price is $1495. The reticle is non-illuminated. Seekins Precision alloy Ultra rings, BC caps, ARD, shipping, all included. The other specs are current.

There is nothing not to like, except of this damn issue. The scope in question I do not believe is the second batch, I believe it was made before the defect was corrected. However, this is not a good thing, as they all were supposed to be corrected before import. I'm still sorting this out. Suffice to say I have a lot of questions and I'm going to get answers.....today.


Scott

wildcard
03-27-2008, 10:08 AM
The deal is even a little sweeter if you're a Calguns member (before 03/27/08).. take advantage of it! Check out post #11.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=93330&page=2

PistolPete75
03-27-2008, 10:45 AM
libertyoptics finally mades it way here to calguns. sounds like a deal.

cocorador
04-02-2008, 7:47 PM
I have one of these scopes and love it. Purchased it from Scott at Liberty Optics. He's a very nice person to talk with and I trust him completely.

I have a low serial number and was a little scared but I took it out last weekend and no issues. I first mounted the IOR on my 338 Lapua for 40 rounds, no muzzle device, then re-mounted it on my 300 WSM for another 20 rounds.

The only thing that broke was my safety on my Jewell trigger. A spring popped off and I was able to re-install it when I got home. The scope was perfect and no issues whatsoever. If there were, I'm sure Scott will take good care of the issues. I know it was only 60 rounds total, but heck, my shoulder was giving up on me.

Also, the scopes with reported issues had only a couple of rounds before failure, so I think my 60 rounds was good enough to know.

The only thing I'm un happy about is the special deal Scott's giving to Cal gun members with the torque wrenches. JUST KIDDING SCOTT! I just wish I knew. Thanks Scott for the excellent service.

Armada/G G

LibertyOptics
04-21-2008, 10:25 PM
Armada, let me make it up to you.

Calgunners,

Since this initial post, things have been quiet on the "breakage front" with this second round of scopes. Knock on wood, but so far, so much better.

I realize that not everyone needs a set of torque wrenches. So, between now and April 30, any Calgunner who purchases a SH 3-18x42 with rings, caps, and ARD will receive a free set of Peltor Tactical 7s earmuffs. Just to be on the same page, here's a link: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=541841

Every shooter needs quality hearing protection, these are a premium product.

Thanks for the opportunity to serve.

Scott

Tacticalintervention
04-26-2008, 11:46 AM
Hey Scott is good to deal with. While I ahve not found IOR to be what I want to use, Scott alsmots makes it wortha try again

Now on FFP versus RFP reticles. Both work well for different reasons.

FFP is great for dialing just off top power and having leads and hold overs correct. They suck for precision at eitehr top or lowest power depending on reticle. You et a reticle in a3-12 you can aim small with at top power and at 3X good luck seeing mils. Its best at half power plus. I like the 4-16 SxB the best of any of these because it seems to balance best for precision and up close.

Now RFP is easiest to aim small with at great distance because the reticle you see appears same size (Eventhough it actually changes in size)

You dial off main power and holds and leads go to poop. A trick I sue is to use NXS's with the four times zome 3.5-1 or 5.5-22. I use a MILR reticle. Now when I hold of for movers I just dial down to minimum power, for increase in FOV.

Now my MLR reticle is no longer markes in half Mil distances. It is in 2 MIl spaces instead. Walker that would be 1 MIL lead now becomes bracketed between center and first marking. Try it its not rocket science and works well.

Everything has plus's and minus's

cocorador
04-26-2008, 5:48 PM
Armada, let me make it up to you.

Calgunners,

Since this initial post, things have been quiet on the "breakage front" with this second round of scopes. Knock on wood, but so far, so much better.

I realize that not everyone needs a set of torque wrenches. So, between now and April 30, any Calgunner who purchases a SH 3-18x42 with rings, caps, and ARD will receive a free set of Peltor Tactical 7s earmuffs. Just to be on the same page, here's a link: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=541841

Every shooter needs quality hearing protection, these are a premium product.

Thanks for the opportunity to serve.

Scott

NO need to make it up to me Scott. As long as I know you will do your best to treat eveyone right, that's good enough for me, and you have. From both SH and Calguns. I think that many of the members on this site are also members of the Hide. You've always gone out of your way to take care of us on the optics department and that's all we can ask for. Please keep up the good work. Also, good luck in your new place. I'm jealous. Thanks again for the info on allergies, got the doctor to prescribe me Asteline for my seasonal allergies. Works great.

Thanks again.
:)

Rust
04-28-2008, 5:54 PM
I'm going to try to get my SH mounted and out to shoot this weekend. I looked at some of the serial numbers guys who had problems posted. Mine is actually lower than some of theirs which makes me a little leery. I'm hoping that IOR held tubes that were already numbered and that I don't have one from the first run with the second gen. knobs. But if it makes it out at all its just going on a 223 or a 6.5 grendel with a brake so I doubt the recoil will be enough to effect it. I half want to put it on something with a little oomph to test it out, but at the same time I don't want to push it.