Hollywood Police OLL Friendly!

[Giovani X]

So I just got off work a couple hours ago and I 'm sitting in my bedroom working on some music. Next thing you know the police chopper is hovering over my apartment building with the sun on lighting up my place. Now let me explain I have roof access from my bedroom upstairs directly on to the roof. Now I can hear some one on the roof running around... maybe cops... maybe not. So I got my *** out of the chair and loaded my XD-40 and grabbed my surefire G2Z(LED). I went to sit back at the computer and the door with roof access began to shake violently. I yelled out "Who's there... Who's there?", after I got no response I covered the door and made my way to the stairs that head down to my living room. I stopped on the stairs and held for a second, the Helicopter now shaking the building. I took my phone from my pocket and called the Police to report the attempted intrusion. They took my report and said one had already been made. I said thank you and held fast now in my kitchen covering my front door, because I can now hear someone in the hallway... The police. They knock at my door and after verifying that they were who they said, a quick check out the peephole to see multiple flashlights searching the halls, I placed my gun down on the floor inside and stepped out of My apartment with only my Flashlight.
Then I got the felony jump. Hands up, into cuffs, etc. The only thing I can think now is @#$@#$%@. They ask if there are any guns in the Apt and I tell them yes , but you do not have my permission to go into the apt. They took note of that and entered my apt, Two male officers leaving me in the halls cuffed with a female officer (kinda cute too.) I can hear them moving around inside..."How many guns in the house sir?" I tell them three. They continue on there search. Now she begins to chat me up. What did I hear, what happened, typical questions that should be asked by the officer.I begin to recant my story with my face to the wall, where they asked me to keep it. She tells me I can turn and face her, but to face the wall if they begin to come outside. She was very polite and asked a few questions about the security in the building. I told her this was not really that uncommon up until this whole nasty misunderstanding. Then comes the voice from inside "Where is the third the gun sir." Now my heart stops. They obviously have the pistol from the floor in the front hallway. My Shotgun sits in a large gun sock by my desk, that makes two. Now the OLL..."It's in a locked case upstairs, you cant miss it, keys are on my keychain by my wallet on the desk." The female officer continues to ask questions and then I hear the bolt of the My CMMG OLL rifle (prince 50.) Slam forward. I tell the female officer that he cant remove the magazine because it is California legal and locked in to place. She yells this out to the officers inside and they take another second and then come down the stairs and back into the hallway. They immediately apologized for the mistake and removed the cuffs and took a report from me on what had happened. After they got my info and the what had gone down we talked flashlights, tattoos, and what a crappy place Hollywood has become. After that I invited them down to The Firing Line for some shooting on me. They could not have been more polite and never asked me a question about any of my guns after they found them. They then explained that the suspect on my roof was in a black coat with a pistol. I was wearing a black Firing Line shirt from work, close enough and I agreed they all shook my hand giving me their fist names and said there goodbyes. I returned to my Apt to find nothing really moved around and all of my weapons laying open and safe on the rifle case. Funny thing though the Aimpoint on my rifle had both lens covers open and was left on... I think some one has black rifle disease. I really hope too see them at the range, good bunch they are. My hats off to the Hollywood PD. You guys know what's up.

[SFFRONTMAN]

Good story, glad nothing bad happened to you.

[sloguy]

why did you open your door?

[Stormfeather]

why did you open your door? Im assuming it because he thought he was going to have a "good" confrontation with the officers.
Situation like this he did exactly what he should have done UP TO A POINT.

* Once you have called police, let them handle it.
* YOu shouldnt have went outside.
* Shouldnt have allowed them access to your domicile,
* Shouldnt have allowed them access to your weapons,
* make no statements,

. . . . .and the list goes on and on. Let them do their jobs, you did your by reporting the crime and defending your home. No need to engage officers and deter them from the real threat. All the time wasted talking to you/detaining you, was resources that could have been utilized looking for the real bad guy.

[tenpercentfirearms]

And never post your experience on a firearms discussion board unless you want to be Tuesday morning quarterbacked into the next century. :rolleyes:

[USN CHIEF]

It sounds like you was doin good and then it all starting going south for a couple of minutes on you..
Now, why did you allow them access into your apt. again?

[savageevo]

he said that he did not give them permission to come in but they noted it and went in anyways. If I were that guy, I would sue for unlawfull search. Why would they need to know where all his guns are especially when he was the one that called and is the renter of the appartment? He should of showed his ID with address and the cops should of put two plus two together.

[SemiAutoSam]

When did Hollywood start having their own PD ?

I always thought Hollywood was LAPD's Jurisdiction.

[AKman]

Did you get her phone number?

[gosparx]

Glad to hear it turned out like it did.

The only serious problem I see at this point is that you only have three guns!! :eek:

[gir007]

thats an interesting experience. even thought they went in without permission. if they were chasing a suspect in the premises they needed to make sure they could try to find him. in my eyes it seems kinda ok. but the fact they were decent about it and especially after and did not hassle you about the oll. I wish we had cops like that here in sd. good thing you are ok. btw did they find the guy?

[tyrist]

Hot pursuit is one of the exceptions to getting a warrant prior to entering. When the police are chasing a suspect it's always best to just stay inside your home. You don't want to become a hostage/victim.

[USN CHIEF]

Glad to hear it turned out like it did.

The only serious problem I see at this point is that you only have three guns!! :eek:

+100000

Outstanding observation......:D

[rmeyer]

"So I got my *** out of the chair and loaded my XD-40"

You store it unloaded?

[biscuitninja]

Nice job. Again, I would have NOT gone out there unless there was REASON to. Curosity in this type of situtation can be a very bad thing.

Glad everything turned out great though. I'd get a safe and lock everything up.

-bix

[scewper]

...the Aimpoint on my rifle had both lens covers open and was left on...

ha ha ha, one of them definitely does have BRD if he/she is playing around with yer stuff after they checked it.

[eta34]

My favorite part about these posts is how everyone seems to state, "Well, I would have done X!" The chest puffing is hilarious.

Glad it worked out ok for you.

[dreyna14]

He did not give permission to enter, however, in this case they did have cause to enter without permission or a warrant since they were obviously looking for a suspect on the run who may have enter his residence. If he didn't open the door, they would have likely kicked it down. Glad he responded to defend his home, then disarmed himself when he saw the police. Also, very happy to see that the officers were polite, not rough on him, and knew the law regarding OLL's.

[SunriseF150]

Did they even catch the suspect they were after? Seems like all effort stopped once they came into your place. Did you not inform them that he is on your roof trying to get inside from your access door (even though they already knew he was on the room)?

[GenLee]

Great story, handled nicely IMHO.

[bear308]

oi, you need more guns, I thought we taught you better than that. Guess we'll screw with ya about it on wed. No more knives until you get at least as many guns.

[pottymouth310]

Good story. You always hear how bad LAPD is. especially in Hollywood. looks like they have a couple cops that appreciate guns too...

[DedEye]

Did you get her phone number?

+1. Only question that matters. Cute cop chatting you up and you invite her to shoot? That had better become a date.

[bear308]

+1. Only question that matters. Cute cop chatting you up and you invite her to shoot? That had better become a date.

I call dibs if she comes in:43:

[ARRRR-15]

Did they even catch the suspect they were after? Seems like all effort stopped once they came into your place. Did you not inform them that he is on your roof trying to get inside from your access door (even though they already knew he was on the room)?

+1 seems like were missing that part of the story.

From what I read, it seems that you were the running suspect and you made it to your house just in time. Came in through the roof, called the cops, and dropped your handgun on the floor. :p

[Stormfeather]

And never post your experience on a firearms discussion board unless you want to be Tuesday morning quarterbacked into the next century. :rolleyes:



So um. . Wes. . . what are you trying to say? :D
Ya know we love dissecting every aspect of a tactical encounter, and yes we even tuesday morning QB it, But as I said, he did good. He came out of it alive, not in jail, with his firearms intact, got to talk to a pretty lady who had him handcuffed (most of us have to spend good money to get this part) and even possibly inadvertently converted/infected a LEO with BRD!
All in all, a pretty positive encounter as far as encounters go. I only pointed out the obvious small things he could have done different. And since he did state he did not comply with a search of his residence, they noted it, but continued, he did that correct as well.

My favorite part about these posts is how everyone seems to state, "Well, I would have done X!" The chest puffing is hilarious. Glad it worked out ok for you.

Its not about puffing chests out or saying "I woulda done this. . or that. . " its about critiquing it so one of us knows how to react in the future. Every experience is a learning experience folks. It should be no different than when you go to a couple of shooting schools, you glean the better parts from the instructors that work for you and utilize them and dont use the rest. The same mindset applies here. Use what information you find works for you, and save that in the mental rolodex for future encounters if you have any.
So, did you at least get a number off of the female officer there stud?? :cool:

[eviioiive]

im pretty sure this thread needs about 8 more pages of how his rights were violated, the cops are as*holes, and he needs to sue....

[FortCourageArmory]

im pretty sure this thread needs about 8 more pages of how his rights were violated, the cops are as*holes, and he needs to sue....

Only 8? That seems a litle light.

[11Z50]

The actions of the cops seem reasonable to me. I think I'd have stayed on the line with the 911 operator, but that might not have been an option.

Cuffing might have been unnecessary, but the cops had every right to control the OP until things got sorted out. It's nice that the LEO's were polite and apologized for the inconvenience. That goes a long way.

[Gisray]

If i was the cop who responded yes i would have cuffed you and searched your apt whether or not you gave me permission. Look at it this way....what if someone (bad guy) is holding a loved one hostage? I am looking no matter what, especially if he called 911 and stated the susp was attempting to enter his location and then does not stay on the line with 911.

If they would have come across some illegal stuff then that would have been kicked in court based on the not allowing them to enter, that pesky 4th amendment. :rolleyes:

On a side note I would have finger F**** his stuff too.:D

On a side note you should have told the 911 operator that you were armed, what wearing, who else was their....it does help.

[savageevo]

I am wondering why did they have to search for every gun. If he had one or a thousand, why. He was handcuffed and why did they just ask him where his ID was and made sure he was the resident. I say he could be a millionare by the end of the year for trampling on his const. rights. Here let me help you. Contact these people and when this is over. I get half;)

http://trutanichmichel.com/

[mymonkeyman]

It's doubtful the cops did anything illegal because of fleeing felon / exigent circumstances rules (they give extreme discretion to officers in "emergency" situations where there is a "dangerous" person around), although the officers probably were excessive from a policy/prudence standpoint in attempting to secure locked away guns when you are already in handcuffs and being watched. Very glad everything turned out all right for you though.

[Blackwater OPS]

His rights were violated! the cops are as*holes! He needs to sue!;)

[hitman13]

get a date with the female officer, if she turns you down tehn sue the dept for their injustices!!!

[jester]

And never post your experience on a firearms discussion board unless you want to be Tuesday morning quarterbacked into the next century. :rolleyes:


Tell me about it! :(

[50 Freak]

My question is if they were after a perp on the loose, why did they have to search your apt for your 3 guns. They were after a human being not after guns.

Once a positive ID was made, they should have left your premise. I would be calling their capt and chewing his ear off. If that were happening to me, I'd be on a phone with an attorney.

I can't believe you see this as a positive event. You basically had your rights taken away and are fine with it. Who gives a F%#$K if they liked your OLL or not. They entered your home without your consent. Many can argue that they entered under extigent circumstances, but once they ID'd you. They were FINISHED. They had no legal authority to search your home for firearms. WAKE THE F UP.

[CitaDeL]

Im assuming it because he thought he was going to have a "good" confrontation with the officers.
Situation like this he did exactly what he should have done UP TO A POINT.

* Once you have called police, let them handle it.
* YOu shouldnt have went outside.
* Shouldnt have allowed them access to your domicile,
* Shouldnt have allowed them access to your weapons,
* make no statements,

. . . . .and the list goes on and on. Let them do their jobs, you did your by reporting the crime and defending your home. No need to engage officers and deter them from the real threat. All the time wasted talking to you/detaining you, was resources that could have been utilized looking for the real bad guy.

+1

Id file a complaint before I started blowing them kisses.

[AKman]

+1. Only question that matters. Cute cop chatting you up and you invite her to shoot? That had better become a date.

Did she try to cop a feel while you were cuffed? Or was it just heavy frisking.

[Shotgun Man]

Thanks for the post.

It is a cautionary tale to avoid police contact at all costs. I wonder if they would have raided a stand-alone home with such arrogance and impunity.

What outrageous conduct.

[capo]

My question is if they were after a perp on the loose, why did they have to search your apt for your 3 guns. They were after a human being not after guns.

Once a positive ID was made, they should have left your premise. I would be calling their capt and chewing his ear off. If that were happening to me, I'd be on a phone with an attorney.

I can't believe you see this as a positive event. You basically had your rights taken away and are fine with it. Who gives a F%#$K if they liked your OLL or not. They entered your home without your consent. Many can argue that they entered under extigent circumstances, but once they ID'd you. They were FINISHED. They had no legal authority to search your home for firearms. WAKE THE F UP.

DING DING DING!!! Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!!!

They may have had the right to enter your apartment due to exigent circumstances (chasing or searching for a suspect that they have reasonable suspicion that may be in your place), however, they only have the right to search for that suspect, NOT your guns. If they happen to see a gun that they think may be illegal, they have to exit the premises, detain you, lock down the apartment in its current state, get a search warrant, and go back in to inspect/confiscate your guns. Same goes for anything else that they see which they believe to be illegal like drugs, etc.

I would consider perhaps filing a notice with the department, I don't think I would contact a lawyer personally, or escalate it to a formal complaint, but I would at least talk to the watch commander and express my uneasiness in what happened.

I'm not a lawyer, nor am I a cop hater...in fact I am soldier now and plan to be a cop by the time I am 35, however, I also plan to follow the book, and think all cops should do the same.

[tyrist]

Police Officers can render all weapons safe at a possible crime scene. How did they know a suspect was not hiding inside of the apartment.

One time a SWAT team said a house was clear after using tear gas and doing a building search. A detective was inside afterwards in a room alone conducting an investigation and behold the suspect pops up from underneath a pile of clothes and tells the detective your dead. Fortunately his mac10 jams and the detective blasts the suspect.

The Officers had a possible crime scene and possible suspect until proven otherwise. Having the guns rendered safe until the investigation is completed is not unreasonable.

[mymonkeyman]

DING DING DING!!! Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!!!

They may have had the right to enter your apartment due to exigent circumstances (chasing or searching for a suspect that they have reasonable suspicion that may be in your place), however, they only have the right to search for that suspect, NOT your guns. If they happen to see a gun that they think may be illegal, they have to exit the premises, detain you, lock down the apartment in its current state, get a search warrant, and go back in to inspect/confiscate your guns. Same goes for anything else that they see which they believe to be illegal like drugs, etc.


I'm sorry but this is wrong. SCOTUS has held that after police get in validly due to exigent circumstances, they can pretty much do whatever they want, including searching for and collecting evidence completely unrelated to the reason for entry. Police can always seize contraband in plain sight like drugs, etc.

[50 Freak]

The Officers had a possible crime scene and possible suspect until proven otherwise. Having the guns rendered safe until the investigation is completed is not unreasonable.

Once they made a positive ID that the OP was indeed the resident of said household they were done. Also remember, they already did a sweep of his apt. Investigation was done at that point.

I'm sorry but this is wrong. SCOTUS has held that after police get in validly due to exigent circumstances, they can pretty much do whatever they want, including searching for and collecting evidence completely unrelated to the reason for entry. Police can always seize contraband in plain sight like drugs, etc.

Somewhat correct....If they found a bloody knife along side a "how to chop up your neighbors for dummies" book on the living room table. Then yes, it's valid evidence. They purposely looked for his three guns. When finding only two, they searched his safe for the third one....This is way beyond the scope of the original PC under exigent circumstances.

I'm not a lawyer, someone correct me if I am wrong....And please cite Scotus ruling or code if you do so.

[fairfaxjim]

I'm sorry but this is wrong. SCOTUS has held that after police get in validly due to exigent circumstances, they can pretty much do whatever they want, including searching for and collecting evidence completely unrelated to the reason for entry. Police can always seize contraband in plain sight like drugs, etc.

I don't see where their unreasonable search of his apartment meets the exigent circumstances test.

Then comes the voice from inside "Where is the third the gun sir." Now my heart stops. They obviously have the pistol from the floor in the front hallway. My Shotgun sits in a large gun sock by my desk, that makes two. Now the OLL..."It's in a locked case upstairs, .....

Doesn't sound like contraband or plain sight. Since when are legally owned firearms, legally stored in your own residence contraband. This just highlights the fact that LE has been trained that firearms ARE contraband, until proven otherwise, instead of the other way around. LE administration had such a hard on with civilians owning and posessing firearms that they have turned the law around to bully everyone into complying with illegal demands, searches, seizures, and detainment whenever a firearm happen to be on the scene. In reality, me, you, or anyone for that matter, legally posessing a firearm doesn't present LE with any more PC or right to detain, search or seize that legally posessing a cell phone. LE and the DA's have simply made the consequences of standing up for your rights so damn expensive that few seldom will.

[50 Freak]

Quick search pulled this up

Exigencies created by the government cannot be the basis for excusing compliance with the warrant requirement. See, e.g., United States v. Hackett, 638 F.2d 1179, 1183-85 (9th Cir.'80)

Those LE's screwed you dude....they didn't even have the courtesy to buy you dinner or ask you if you wanted lube....I can't believe some of the posters here playing this off as if the OP was in the wrong.

[mymonkeyman]

Once they made a positive ID that the OP was indeed the resident of said household they were done. Also remember, they already did a sweep of his apt. Investigation was done at that point.



Somewhat correct....If they found a bloody knife along side a "how to chop up your neighbors for dummies" book on the living room table. Then yes, it's valid evidence. They purposely looked for his three guns. When finding only two, they searched his safe for the third one....This is way beyond the scope of the original PC under exigent circumstances.

I'm not a lawyer, someone correct me if I am wrong....And please cite Scotus ruling or code if you do so.

Warden v. Hayden, 387 U.S. 294 (1967)

Held:

1. "The exigencies of the situation," in which the officers were in pursuit of a suspected armed felon in the house which he had entered only minutes before they arrived, permitted their warrantless entry and search. McDonald v. United States, 335 U. S. 451, 456. P P. 298-300.

2. The distinction prohibiting seizure of items of only evidential value and allowing seizure of instrumentalities, fruits, or contraband is no longer accepted as being required by the Fourth Amendment. P P. 300-310.

(a) There is no rational distinction between a search for "mere evidence" and one for an "instrumentality" in terms of the privacy which is safeguarded by the Fourth Amendment; nor does the language of the Amendment itself make such a distinction. P P. 301-302.

Also, under Terry v. Ohio and the billion related cases too many to cite, officers have huge discretion in securing weapons for purposes of officer safety. They don't need probable cause for this, only reasonable suspicion of a danger to officer safety, which was triggered when the OP answered that there were guns in the house.

[mymonkeyman]

Quick search pulled this up



Those LE's screwed you dude....they didn't even have the courtesy to buy you dinner or ask you if you wanted lube....I can't believe some of the posters here playing this off as if the OP was in the wrong.

Except the gov.'t didn't create the exigency. They did not put the dude on the OP's roof. The case you cited has to do with gov.'t created exigency or where the gov.'t otherwise really could have got a warrant but essentially waited until it was too late and then claimed exigent circumstances. Even in the case you cite and the case that that case cites for the rule, the cops got off the hook and the evidence was not suppressed, because the court created an exigency explanation post hoc that the officers themselves did not have / use in entering / seizing evidence.

[Peashooter]

What if they were in a safe?

[Linh]

If you got a date with the female cop then it was meant to happen this way if not then you shouldn't have opened the door unless they knocked.

If there was a shootout between cops and bgs in front of my house I'm staying in door locked and loaded. Cause if I go out then the cops or the bgs will shoot me.

As for sueing them I highly doubt it would work out since they were in the process of looking for someone and you appeared so that doesn't help. Now if they knocked on your door and welcomed themselves in that would be another story. JMHO

[50 Freak]

I believe in Warden v. Hayden, the evidence seized was related to the perp who entered the victim's home. Scotus ruled such evidence was legally obtained and a warrant was not needed. Besides, the victim homeowner gave the LE permission to enter. This has nothing to do with evidence seized from the victim's home that were the victims, only the perp.

In Terry v. Ohio, this has to do with what is known as a "Terry Search" usually done to a person on the streets. Again, this case is not applicable.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I would think you would have a hell of a time winning a case like this based on those two cases. Just my 2 cents.

[saki302]

IMO, get a large SECURE safe, keep all but your essential defense guns in it. If ever asked to open the safe under conditions above, tell them to pound sand.

If they want to secure your defense guns you have laying out, that's fine from a safety perspective. Digging in closets is not, IMO.

-Dave

[SunriseF150]

What I want to know is if they just all together stopped going after the original suspect once you opened the door and they came in after you? Cause thats sure how it sounds.

[tyrist]

What I want to know is if they just all together stopped going after the original suspect once you opened the door and they came in after you? Cause thats sure how it sounds.


When Officers are in foot pursuit of a suspect every unit in the area that is able to respond does. He was detained by Officers conducting a search for the suspect, but the ghetto bird was in the air and there is a 99% chance other Officers had already set up a perimeter around the location. Sometimes when on a perimeter multiple suspects will be caught and you have the victim identify the correct one if they are able.

[Sniper3142]

I understand why the cops entered his apartment to search for the suspect.

Securing his firearms might be a bit much since they were looking for a person BUT the OP did VOLUNTEER the information to them (a hug mistake IMHO).

Some people have said that if they were these cops, they would have entered the OPs apartment without his approval also. One person even said he would "kick the door in" if needed. I call BS on these responses. Unless you plan on entering EVERY apartment in the complex, you won't be entering a closed and locked door. Now if there was evidence that the suspect entered a particular apartment, I would understand making entry to locate him.

I'm glad everything turned out okay for the OP.

And I'm still waiting to hear whether he got her digits!

:)

[tgun]

So what is the proper answer to the questions "Are there any guns in the house?" and "How many guns are there in the house?"

[SemiAutoSam]

2ND Amendment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

4th Amendment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


Oh and the obligatory NOYFB.



So what is the proper answer to the questions "Are there any guns in the house?" and "How many guns are there in the house?"

[DedEye]

So what is the proper answer to the questions "Are there any guns in the house?" and "How many guns are there in the house?"

"There's nothing illegal in the house sir."

[capo]

I'm sorry but this is wrong. SCOTUS has held that after police get in validly due to exigent circumstances, they can pretty much do whatever they want, including searching for and collecting evidence completely unrelated to the reason for entry. Police can always seize contraband in plain sight like drugs, etc.

You basically just stated that if an officer has an exigent reason to enter my property, he or she has carte blanche to search my house from floor to ceiling for any contraband that he or she wants to, which is completely unrelated to the exigent reason for entering my property.

If this is correct, welcome to Russiamerica.

Again, if police enter your house due to exigent circumstances, and see evidence of illegal activity UNRELATED to the reason that they entered, they have to exit, SECURE THE HOUSE, and get a warrant. Any investigation or evidence collection that they do on an unrelated crime without a warrant, guess what...CASE DISMISSED! During this time they can deny you and/or anyone else access to the house, and detain you.

They don't need probable cause for this, only reasonable suspicion of a danger to officer safety, which was triggered when the OP answered that there were guns in the house.

One could argue, and quite well I would think, that any reasonable suspicion of danger to officer safety goes out the window when the homeowner is outside of his apartment, handcuffed, on his knees, with his face in the wall. The officers can enter the premises and secure it, but by secure it, that means that can make sure there are no other PEOPLE in there. Even cops know that guns don't just come to life and shoot people.

Now, in regards to exigent circumstances and "securing" his weapons, here is a page right out of the book.

Exigent Circumstances Searches...

Exigent circumstances means an emergency situation requiring swift action to prevent:

- imminent danger to a person's life or safety,
- serious damage to property,
- imminent escape of a suspect, or
- evidence is about to be destroyed or removed

NOTE: Once inside, peace officers may do whatever is necessary to resolve the emergency -- nothing more. Once the emergency has dissipated, a warrant may be needed for further searching.

Scope of the Search:

Under exigent circumstances, the primary purpose of the officer's entry is to attend to the emergency situation. After entering the premises, officers may conduct a search only if it is reasonable to believe a search is necessary to secure the emergency. ***hard to reasonably suspect considering the guy was outside in handcuffs***

Officers who are conducting a lawful search based on exigent circumstances may seize any item in PLAIN VIEW if there is probable cause to believe the item is contraband or evidence to a crime.

The OP clearly stated that the officer entered his safe to get his OLL. What happened here is wrong, the information above is from my PC832 book, a class that I recently completed.

They did not have PC or reasonable suspicion to take some of the actions that were taken. Period.