Some reading on subcaliber ammo in 10 round magazines

[hoffmang]

I had been mentioning some points in Hunt that related to putting subcaliber ammo in an otherwise 10 round magazine (think 9mm in a 10 round Sig .40S&W magazine which works nicely in the 9mm version.)

Here is Hunt's reply to the opposition for a preliminary injunction (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/hunt/Hunt-Plaintiffs-Reply-To-Opp-Preliminary-Inj-2002-04-10.pdf). Read section B 3 at the top of page 7 (10 in the PDF) to get a flavor of the argument that Hunt was making about using subcaliber shotgun shells in an otherwise non large-capacity magazine.

This is the Order denying in part the AG's demurrer (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/hunt/Hunt-Order_Re_Defendants_Demurrer_to_FAC-2003-03-18.pdf). You'll note starting at the last paragraph on page 5 that Hunt's claim about sub caliber ammunition was thrown out of the case. You'll note that the judge is basically saying that the rule of construction is to look to how the magazine is marketed and intended to be used.

From that one can see decent support that a magazine that is designed, intended, and marketed to hold 10 rounds of .40S&W or .458 SOCOM but which can also hold more than 10 rounds of 9mm or 5.56mm are legal to buy in California.

A note though. This is a district court case and not an appeals court. This is only advisory, but I think its a pretty accurate way that a court would attempt to deal with the issue especially since the .40S&W 10 round magazine issue is very common here in California.

-Gene

[leelaw]

How many .223 rounds can fit in a 10rd .450 Bushmaster magazine?

J/K... :p

[aplinker]

How many .223 rounds can fit in a 10rd .450 Bushmaster magazine?

J/K... :p

Why are you kidding? This is exactly right.

http://www.shop.umlautarms.com/product.sc;jsessionid=D113F04C882BDBF385DB4B40811F 272A.qscstrfrnt02?categoryId=41&productId=31


.50 Beowulf® Magazine 10-Round

10 Round Magazines for the .50 Beowulf® weapons system. Floor Plate is stamped "Alexander Arms - .50 Beowulf"

This is a 10-Round Magazine that is the same size as a typical USGI 30-Round 5.56mm Magazine.

Also available in your choice of 10 Round, 7 Round and 4 Round models.

Weight of 0.30lbs.

[leelaw]

Why are you kidding? This is exactly right.

Because I don't want some knucklehead to go out and do something like that, without good legal backing, and, when caught, say "oh, well this leelaw fella told me to do it" because I certainly didn't.

[aplinker]

Because I don't want some knucklehead to go out and do something like that, without good legal backing, and, when caught, say "oh, well this leelaw fella told me to do it" because I certainly didn't.

"I read on the internet it's ok" You mean that's not a defense? :eek:


;)

[leelaw]

"I read on the internet it's ok" You mean that's not a defense? :eek:


;)
I've heard it before when I questioned a "pre-ban, registered" Stag in an AW configuration, owned by some punk 18 year-old.

I'm not going to be the one giving the advice on something without solid backing, like loading a .450 Bush mag with .223, etc.. :p

[CCWFacts]

.50 Beowulf® Magazine 10-Round

10 Round Magazines for the .50 Beowulf® weapons system. Floor Plate is stamped "Alexander Arms - .50 Beowulf"

Can that actually hold and feed 556? The mag body looks the same but it said the lips must be wider for 50 Beo.

[CrackedShot]

Interesting analysis Gene, thanks for posting. Does make one ponder the ambiguities of the law. Although there is some risk associated, as there are many who read this site. However......... life is a series of risk assessments........one just has to decide which risks they are willing to accept and which ones they wish to avoid?

[hoffmang]

If one cares to use subcaliber ammo in an otherwise legal 10 round magazine I would observe two safety rules.

1. Own the firearm/conversion kit/upper for the correct use of the 10 round magazine. In the handgun version, one would want to own both the 9mm barrel and the .40 S&W barrel for a 229.

2. You can not modify a magazine to work in another firearm in a way that keeps it from working normally in the firearm it was designed for. If your modification doesn't impact its use in its original firearm you should be ok.

-Gene

[aplinker]

Can that actually hold and feed 556? The mag body looks the same but it said the lips must be wider for 50 Beo.

uh huh :)

Like a pre-ban

[peekay331]

From a practical perspective, I personally would not want to be caught with a .40 mag holding 12 rounds of 9mm IN my 9mm P226. I would also avoid keeping the .40 mag loaded with more than 10 rounds of 9mm unless I was shooting. I wouldn't mind using a .40 mag for the extra rounds, but I would empty it during transportation to and from the range.

I don't believe you can be convicted, but why give the officer/DA any reason to drag you through the criminal justice system?

[Scarecrow Repair]

"I read on the internet it's ok" You mean that's not a defense?

Sure it is. I read it on the internet.

[wilit]

FYI, an Alexander Arms .50 Beo 7-round mag will accept, hold, and reliably feed 5.56 rounds. I don't know exactly how many as I only had 10 rounds left when I tried it, but I believe they are standard 20 rounders with the "mag lips opened up"

[aplinker]

FYI, an Alexander Arms .50 Beo 7-round mag will accept, hold, and reliably feed 5.56 rounds. I don't know exactly how many as I only had 10 rounds left when I tried it, but I believe they are standard 20 rounders with the "mag lips opened up"

10's hold 30 :)

[razorx]

Wouldn't want to justify that loaded .50 10 round mag with 556 unless there was an unusual situation justifying it ala zombie-lite and above. Standard home invasion won't cut it or any other localized incident.

So keep it on the shelf and certainly not pre-loaded. But there just in case. I can't imagine possession being a concern even if you don't have anything else. Though, if you have a home invasion incident and use your trusty 38 special, they might cart off all your other guns and ammo just because they can and could try to invent some additional charge.

I love paranoia.

[aplinker]

Wouldn't want to justify that loaded .50 10 round mag with 556 unless there was an unusual situation justifying it ala zombie-lite and above. Standard home invasion won't cut it or any other localized incident.

So keep it on the shelf and certainly not pre-loaded. But there just in case. I can't imagine possession being a concern even if you don't have anything else. Though, if you have a home invasion incident and use your trusty 38 special, they might cart off all your other guns and ammo just because they can and could try to invent some additional charge.

I love unnecessary paranoia.

You're too conservative. Might as well keep that lower unbuilt in the back of the safe, too.

As long as you're using the mag in a detachable magazine build, you're fine. You might want to have the Beo with you.