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View Full Version : imbert smithers says Keltec is a gray area


HUTCH 7.62
03-13-2008, 1:42 PM
Hah imbert & smithers told me they won't transfer a kel-tec SU-16ca because it's too much of a gray area.

Soldier415
03-13-2008, 1:49 PM
Hah imbert & smithers told me they won't transfer a kel-tec SU-16ca because it's too much of a gray area.

I believe the grey area is between their ears :p

Socal858
03-13-2008, 1:54 PM
what idiots lol

RaceDay
03-13-2008, 2:00 PM
Thats silly. Part of the reason I keep my Keltec is knowing that it has NO gray area.

aplinker
03-13-2008, 2:02 PM
And instances like this are why I'm of the opinion that ALL firearms are equally "gray" in the minds of the ignorant.

I will add that the SU-16 IS gray when compared to an AR. :D

Thats silly. Part of the reason I keep my Keltec is knowing that it has NO gray area.

Dirtbiker
03-13-2008, 2:16 PM
Hell even Turners carries the SU-16.

jumbopanda
03-13-2008, 2:17 PM
Yea, well...some people out there believe that anything other than a bolt action rifle is illegal.

Omega13device
03-13-2008, 2:25 PM
These guys are 10 minutes from me but this kind of thing is why I drive 30 minutes each way to use another FFL who actually knows what he's doing.

bigthaiboy
03-13-2008, 2:52 PM
If Turners are happy to stock SU16CAs virtually in all their stores, then it has to be CA legal to the point of being idiot-proof. Obviously, some things are not idiot-proof enough for the people at Imbert & Smith.

-hanko
03-13-2008, 3:05 PM
If Turners are happy to stock SU16CAs virtually in all their stores, then it has to be CA legal to the point of being idiot-proof. Obviously, some things are not idiot-proof enough for the people at Imbert & Smith.
I&S are fudds spreading FUD. They've always been ignorant...I moved to Belmont in the late 1950's.

Their ignorance is bliss sometimes. If you check the long gun consignment racks every couple of weeks, 4 or 5 times a year they'll completely blow the price on used rifles or shotguns. I've bought several guns priced low by 50% or more, usually standard guns produced for a short time in rare calibers.;)

-hanko

HUTCH 7.62
03-13-2008, 3:07 PM
I Should call them just to see if they will transfer a mini-14

zcktomcat
03-13-2008, 3:07 PM
Well considering it borrows features from some of the evilest rifles ever created, it has to be in a gray area. I read that a 13 year old got a hold of one SU-16 and took out an entire pre-school from 3 or 4 miles away. Odd part was that he was aiming it in the direction of a high school, but the bullet turned completely around and went into its standard baby seeking mode.

HUTCH 7.62
03-13-2008, 3:09 PM
I&S are fudds spreading FUD. They've always been ignorant...I moved to Belmont in the late 1950's.

Their ignorance is bliss sometimes. If you check the long gun consignment racks every couple of weeks, 4 or 5 times a year they'll completely blow the price on used rifles or shotguns. I've bought several guns priced low by 50% or more, usually standard guns produced for a short time in rare calibers.;)

-hanko

hmmmm I am looking for a long action rem 700

-hanko
03-13-2008, 3:12 PM
I Should call them just to see if they will transfer a mini-14
Used mini's end up in the long gun rack periodically. Prices seem to be around the going rate in CA.

Start visiting them 2x a month or so, you'll find what you want (more often, you buy something you didn't realize you were looking for;)) sooner or later.

-hanko

bwiese
03-13-2008, 3:37 PM
Let Imbert & Smithers stick to guns with wood on 'em.

Last time I heard they thought flash hiders were illegal on bolt guns.

They're decent folks and their gunsmithing on 'regular' guns seems to be pretty good, but basically they're kinda Fudd Central.

[It also would not surprise me if they're really walking the straight & narrow since it appears a lotta old-line gunshops run by Old Farts (pardon my language) have a 30 year accumulation of trivial paperwork issues that the ATF can use against them in their ongoing War on FFLs - who knows if I&S has problems in this area, dunno - but tons of other similar shops have.].

ProtecSylt
03-13-2008, 4:05 PM
I don`t understand you, Gentleman.
It is his house - it`s his rules. So the owner of Imbert & Smithers doesn`t like SU-16s because in his opinions they are POS (which is actually the real reason - but it doesn`t matter in this context).
Too much hassle - so he won`t bother.
It`s his right to run his business the way he wants to. Because he thinks OLLs are a problem - or potentially might be - he decided to not deal with them. He wants to tend more towards the 'hunting' crowd, since he obviously is big on hunting himself (if you`ve ever been there and looked at the walls you`ll know what I mean).
You guys are like the crusaders. Just because you found OLLs for yourself, you need to convert EVERYBODY to acknowledge that they are legal. But some people just don`t care. And sometimes these exact people happen to own gun shops.
As far as I understand Imbert & Smithers was never big on black rifles - even back then when they were legal in the original configuration.
They do have incredible deals on used guns sometimes, because their pricing can be off... and because they do cater to the hunting crowd, they get some pretty oddball stuff that you probably won`t find anywhere else.

(and no, I don`t work there anymore. I used to and I pointed a lot of people with interest in OLLs towards this website. I own a few myself and I have a few coming... and I do my OLL stuff at Irvington Arms and am very happy with them.)

Steyr_223
03-13-2008, 4:21 PM
I agree with you on Irvington Arms, great guys. I&S, had a very good gunsmith back in 1999/2000/2001 name Joseph or Joe..He did some work on my surplus Mausers and Enfields..He did good work.

wellfedirishman
03-13-2008, 4:28 PM
To paraphrase the phrase about Clinton and the economy...

I&S seem to specialize in hunting guns, old C&R guns (incl SKS, Garand, etc), historical stuff (i.e. Grandad's guns) That's the market they cater to, and they run a nice shop for those type of guns. They have a good selection of old style (blue steel and wood) guns, and their prices are pretty good for those. I have bought several from them in the past (vintage 22s, C&Rs, hunting shotgun etc).

Remember, a lot of people don't care for black rifles. I&S caters to that crowd, rather than to the 'tactical' crowd. That is a business decision on their part, and they either gain or suffer from it based on the traffic that comes to their store. If they don't want to deal with black rifles (even gray area ones) that is their loss. They probably figure the loss is not worth the perceived hassle of dealing with 'black' guns.

There's room in the market for everyone, and we all benefit by having a good selection of dealers catering to different needs/desires. I have found I&S very helpful in the past when I wanted specific vintage stuff, or asked them to hold something for me for a couple days, etc.

mymonkeyman
03-13-2008, 4:30 PM
I&S sucks. Also notice the AR clone they have on the wall. They will tell you that AR clones are all illegal and then if you point that to them their heads explode.

-hanko
03-13-2008, 4:44 PM
I&S sucks. Also notice the AR clone they have on the wall. They will tell you that AR clones are all illegal and then if you point that to them their heads explode.
I gotta' disagree.

As a couple before me pointed out...you don't go to I&S for an oll, an fal, or anything used in the last 25 years by the military. I'd even doubt that they'd sell a recent M1A.

That's not why I go there. I'm looking for deals in C&R's or something I can use to dump a deer or an elk. An oll is not the ideal gun for shooting large animals.

I&S is obviously successful in their intended market.

Their decision is to focus more on blue steel & walnut guns. Nothing wrong with that. If I need AR parts or (God help me) yet another FAL, I'm gonna' go someplace else. You're not going to convince them to change their focus.

YOU need to give a break to folks who might live and breathe weapons other than AR's. We need to stand united in the prk...things will not get better in CA unless we ALL do.

Sorry for the soapbox.

-hanko

mymonkeyman
03-13-2008, 4:47 PM
I gotta' disagree.

As a couple before me pointed out...you don't go to I&S for an oll, an fal, or anything used in the last 25 years by the military. I'd even doubt that they'd sell a recent M1A.

That's not why I go there. I'm looking for deals in C&R's or something I can use to dump a deer or an elk. An oll is not the ideal gun for shooting large animals.

I&S is obviously successful in their intended market.

Their decision is to focus more on blue steel & walnut guns. Nothing wrong with that. If I need AR parts or (God help me) yet another FAL, I'm gonna' go someplace else. You're not going to convince them to change their focus.

YOU need to give a break to folks who might live and breathe weapons other than AR's. We need to stand united in the prk...things will not get better in CA unless we ALL do.

Sorry for the soapbox.

-hanko

If they want to say ARs are illegal, they should not have one up on the wall.

They are also very overpriced on everything, and then make you feel good by offering you 10% knocked off the ticket price, so they keep a healthy 100% gross profit margin. Also they ignore women or young adults who walk in.

jdm49
03-13-2008, 4:57 PM
What makes it even funnier is that they had Bushmaster Carbon15 with sealed magwells in there at one time.

dfletcher
03-13-2008, 5:14 PM
Considering that they carry the Min 14 and M1A what is their reason for asserting the KelTec is in a legal grey area? Something to do with the thing being under 30" OAL when folded in two?

BTW, I have no problem with them not carrying it because they think it's in a grey area, so long as they don't assert I shouldn't buy one because it's in a grey area.

shark92651
03-13-2008, 8:10 PM
They may be confused because it folds in half and has a threaded barrel. If someone is set in their ways and would rather not bother understanding the law, I can see why they may just say "no thanks".

HUTCH 7.62
03-13-2008, 8:13 PM
All I have to say a kel-tec is perfectly legal in Kommiefornia, it's even sold in shops who refuse to deal with OLL (that's ok too) but come on, next they will tell us that they won't PPT a mini-14 or M-1 carbine because its to taboo.

Omega13device
03-13-2008, 8:24 PM
If someone is set in their ways and would rather not bother understanding the law, I can see why they may just say "no thanks".
Own a gun store but would rather not bother to understand the law...hmm...

1lostinspace
03-13-2008, 8:30 PM
maybe they thought you said SU27
a fighter jet like that might be a problem here in CA just keep a 10 rounder pinned and you should fine.:xwing:

shark92651
03-13-2008, 9:55 PM
Own a gun store but would rather not bother to understand the law...hmm...

Yeah, not a very good combination to mix legal liability and apathy, huh?

bigthaiboy
03-13-2008, 10:10 PM
Own a gun store but would rather not bother to understand the law...hmm...


Apparently so....Like trying to charge $50 for PPTs :

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=77605&highlight=imbert

You can't tell me, "their house, their rules", on this one.

gordoe
03-14-2008, 12:33 AM
Well I did a FTF PPT with 7.62 Hutch, nice guy, today at Big 5, took a long time (manager was lagging), but its ready for pick up on the 24th.

tzahoy
03-14-2008, 6:38 AM
I like Imbert and Smithers. They have great deals there, and I've done a couple PPT's there one for a NIB Series 70 Gold Cup, and one for a full lug unfluted 29. Both times I was treated well, charged $45 which is ok with me, and I scored on some reloading components as well. I got 1,000 small pistol primers for less than $40 which is as good as you're going to get around here for a brick and mortar store. Sometimes there are some awesome deals on the used racks.

You guys keep whining about them, and I'll keep snapping up the deals.

kurac
03-14-2008, 6:59 AM
I inquired about a Keltec several months ago at I&S and was told they won't carry it because its a "plastic piece of junk".

It is true they don't carry any tactical stuff, and they seem to be doing ok, actually quite well.

Yute
03-14-2008, 8:00 AM
That's weird. I swear I remember Imberts stocking a Bushmaster toploader at one time. Anyone see that? Anyone?

Oh wait, I bought it from them :Angel_anim:

t001
03-14-2008, 10:16 AM
I've seen an AR-type firearm on one of their back (repair) racks, too.

grywlfbg
03-14-2008, 10:52 AM
Sure, it's their prerogative if they don't want to deal in OLL's (or even Kel-tec's) but they shouldn't be spreading FUD. They should just tell people they don't deal in those types of firearms instead of telling them they're illegal when they have no idea what they're talking about.

Those kinds of shops we could do without.

ProtecSylt
03-14-2008, 12:16 PM
Those kinds of shops we could do without.

Really? Now the whole shop should be gone because they don`t know their way around OLLs?
If you go to a guy that specializes in classic Mustangs and ask for a Toyota Hybrid - what do you expect? A knowledgable answer to how the hybrid battery system works? A couple of extra parts in the back "just in case somebody with a Toyota shows up"?
On the other hand - should they say "the batteries in Toyota Hybrids are illegal"? No. That makes them ignorant - but does not call for closing them down. You want OLLs - go to someone who knows his way around them.

I&S are by far not the antichrists they are made out to be here... and when I read earlier in this thread that "nobody will talk to you when you`re a female or a young adult", I have to wonder where fud-central really is (the shop is run by a woman).