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Richieboy
03-12-2008, 7:56 PM
Just picked up a M16 upper minus BC/CH. I have no use for the barrel and would like to know what you guys think its worth?

Its a 20" HBAR with no markings(that I can see). The A1 upper is marked LM but that's it. The finish is good with a few little blemishes here and there. I have no way of knowing the round count, and have not fired it myself. Included with it are the triangle handguards, a pitted but usable front cap, and the gas tube. No FSB, FH, or barrel nut assy are included.

I know very little about retro rifles but the FSB appears pre '70, which would indicate the age of the barrel if it's all original.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/Richieboy-/Picture015.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/Richieboy-/Picture018-1.jpg

Any ideas on the worth of the barrel/handguards/cap and gas tube?

DB2
03-12-2008, 8:00 PM
If the barrel is original it would have markings on it. If it has absolutely no markings, it is probably a newer commercial barrel. It looks to be black also, which would be a refinish.

You'd probably get about $100-150 since the barrel has no markings.


Looks like a mixmaster to me.

NeoWeird
03-12-2008, 8:05 PM
I would be interested in the upper though. Let me know if you are parting it or just selling the entire thing/only the barrel.

ETA: That barrel also looks too thick to be a 'retro' era barrel. At first I thought it might have been a rebarrel SP1 upper but if it were rebarreled to a thicker barrel than the FSB wouldn't have fit. Chances are you either have a mixmaster retro upper with a custom barrel or the more likely a mixmaster with a cheapo barrel. Is the barrel even chrome lined? That's a good indication, but not always, to it's quality.

ETA again: sorry, but I need to slow down and look at pictures more. The M16A1 and it's variants, to which that upper originally belonged, used flat delta rings if I remember right. Yours is flared indicating it's a newer delta ring. FSB are very hard to judge age, especially to an untrained eye. Chances are the oldest part of the rifle is the upper, and there is a good chance, that since the rest are new parts, that it itself is a new part, such as those made by Fulton. I don't know of any current commercial A1 uppers, but that's not to say there havne't been (or custom jobs to make a C7 upper look like an A1).

DB2
03-12-2008, 8:21 PM
Ya that is definetly NOT an original barrel. I have M16 upper in front of me. The barrel contour is slightly different and the flash hider is no way correct. Still worth 100 bucks if it's chrome lined. Less though if it isn't

NeoWeird
03-12-2008, 8:31 PM
Ya that is definetly NOT an original barrel. I have M16 upper in front of me. The barrel contour is slightly different and the flash hider is no way correct. Still worth 100 bucks if it's chrome lined. Less though if it isn't

Not necessarly. A custom barrel turned by a gunsmith will neither be chrome lined nor marked. If it were an A2 or C7 upper then I would imagine that it's a cheap-o kit. The fact that it has the A1 upper leads me to believe that it was pieced together and probably a little older to boot. Me thinks it might be an older custom turned barrel on M16 imported parts from before us civilians had it so good.

Richieboy
03-12-2008, 11:18 PM
Thanks for all the info!

The upper is an A1 with no shell deflector, so as far as I know its old. It does have the large round forward assist that does not fit A2 lowers(they are aledgedly hard to find). It's also a small hole pivot with the FA cut in it. Trap door and delta ring are not correct. FSB is the old kind with the forging flash machined and a drain hole under the sight post putting it at 1967-1969 according to:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=241681
It has regular rifle ramps, not M4 ramps.

Here's some more pics and info. Not a bad find for 200 :)
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=119&t=517979

Does the $100ish price include the handguards and other stuff or is it just for the barrel?

ar15barrels
03-13-2008, 12:53 AM
That's a no-name gunshow upper.
The military (colt etc...) never produced 20" HBARs.

Nikola
03-13-2008, 12:56 AM
I don't know of any current commercial A1 uppers, but that's not to say there havne't been (or custom jobs to make a C7 upper look like an A1).

Doesn't CMMG currently offer A1 uppers?

ar15barrels
03-13-2008, 12:57 AM
Model 1 bought a crapload of A1 uppers (attached to M16 lowers) a few years ago.
Perhaps this is an upper that got re-barreled and re-sold along the way.

NeoWeird
03-13-2008, 1:11 AM
CMMG, along with MANY companies, offer C7 uppers which are the transitional A1 upper with brass deflector and are frequently mislabeled as A1 uppers because of their rear site being the A1 site. They are essentially A2 uppers but with the less advanced A1 site.

The A1 upper, as shown above, is essentially a slabside upper with the forward assist. It has no brass deflector and uses the A1 site. A similar upper was used on the Colt SP1 but it used a large pivot pin hole to prevent M16 uppers from being used on civilian lowers. These, while looking almost identical to an A1, are not quite A1s because of this feature.

There is nothing fancy, rare, special, etc about A1 uppers. They are just not produced anymore so you have to find someone who is selling their privately owned upper, such as the OP did.

Richieboy
03-13-2008, 1:44 AM
LM Forge Code on the upper is Martin Marietta = Army contract spare mfg.

Neo is correct, there are no current production true A1 uppers. Fulton, DPMS, etc use the C7 pattern w/ brass deflector.

Being thats its most likely a "no-name gunshow barrel" whats it worth?

ar15barrels
03-13-2008, 8:42 AM
Being thats its most likely a "no-name gunshow barrel" whats it worth?

$150 to $200 without bolt carrier and charging handle.

NeoWeird
03-13-2008, 9:16 PM
The upper itself is probably in the $50-$150 range depending on condition, quality, etc. I know that's a large spread, but then again you are talking about uppers that range from seeing more combat that anyone would care to even think about to those that were in storage their entire life. Seeing as that uppers was probably refinished, and was rebarreled, it's safe to say it's probably seen a good chunk of action. Current market value of about $125, maybe more since it has the "rare" large forward assist, even though that raises the value very little.

The barrel is still good as a plinking barrel and nothing else, and is probably good for $30-50 depending again on condition and buyer's preference. The handguards are probably GI surplus and worth SOMETHING but not much more than $10.

So $200 for that upper shipped, without bolt, carrier, and charging handle, is a pretty fair and decent price. Now had it had the slab side carrier or the original charging handle and the price would have easily doubled or tripled if both were present.

Richieboy
03-13-2008, 10:00 PM
Barrel/handguards/cap/tube are sold. Thanks for all the info guys. :)