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cypher
03-10-2008, 2:49 PM
This is going to be very NooB question.

in CA is it legal to own a rifle with:

A flash hinder?
A flash suppressor?

Explain the difference between a hinder and a suppressor. I though I understood the difference but then I have seen them listed for sale as a hinder/suppressor.

I have ordered all the parts for my first OLL build and want to make sure it will be legal. I ordered the CMMG 16" CAR w/ A2 hinder on it. (Of course it will have a prince 50 or BB)

1064chubbs
03-10-2008, 2:51 PM
if your gonna have a BB or prince 50 you need not worry about anything.

Hopi
03-10-2008, 2:51 PM
This is going to be very NooB question.

in CA is it legal to own a rifle with:

A flash hinder?
A flash suppressor?

Explain the difference between a hinder and a suppressor. I though I understood the difference but then I have seen them listed for sale as a hinder/suppressor.

I have ordered all the parts for my first OLL build and want to make sure it will be legal. I ordered the CMMG 16" CAR w/ A2 hinder on it. (Of course it will have a prince 50 or BB)

Welcome to the forum....


Go here:

http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm


Then here:

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

Then here:
http://www.calguns.net/OLL/assembly.html

jandmtv
03-10-2008, 2:52 PM
This is going to be very NooB question.

in CA is it legal to own a rifle with:

A flash hinder?
A flash suppressor?
Explain the difference between a hinder and a suppressor. I though I understood the difference but then I have seen them listed for sale as a hinder/suppressor.

I have ordered all the parts for my first OLL build and want to make sure it will be legal. I ordered the CMMG 16" CAR w/ A2 hinder on it. (Of course it will have a prince 50 or BB)

one in the same.

legal if you are doing a fixed mag build, like a p50 or BB.

please use the search function, all of these issues have been covered many times.

tempdrummer
03-10-2008, 2:54 PM
One difference is theres no such thing as a flash hinder...its flash Hider.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_suppressor

Librarian
03-10-2008, 2:57 PM
This is going to be very NooB question.

in CA is it legal to own a rifle with:

A flash hinder?
A flash suppressor?
Explain the difference between a hinder and a suppressor. I though I understood the difference but then I have seen them listed for sale as a hinder/suppressor.
That would be 'hider', though the device would 'hinder' the display of the combustion products to the user by 'hiding' it somewhat.

The difference is between a flash hider/suppressor and a muzzle brake. Muzzle brakes are legal pretty much all the time, unless they attach to a threaded barrel.

ETA: yes, threaded barrel on a pistol; I apologize for the red herring - since the original question was about an OLL, I probably should have left it out.

And semi-auto only, according to PC 12276.1 (4)(A).

OLLs with fixed mags can have the rest of the features, because the definition of a California AW rifle includes 'removable magazine'

aplinker
03-10-2008, 3:09 PM
Muzzle brakes are legal pretty much all the time, unless they attach to a threaded barrel.


Muzzle brakes are ALWAYS legal, on anything. However, threaded barrels are an assault weapon feature on semi-automatic pistols, in which case those threads (unless permanently covered with the MB), would make it illegal.

I know you understand this, but I wanted to make the clarification.

Flash hiders/flash suppressors are SB23 assault weapon "features" on centerfire, semi-automatic rifles. The links given above will be VERY helpful.

Sgt Raven
03-10-2008, 3:16 PM
Muzzle brakes are ALWAYS legal, on anything. However, threaded barrels are an assault weapon feature on semi-automatic pistols, in which case those threads (unless permanently covered with the MB), would make it illegal.

I know you understand this, but I wanted to make the clarification.

Flash hiders/flash suppressors are SB23 assault weapon "features" on centerfire, semi-automatic rifles. The links given above will be VERY helpful.


This is another case of someone not understanding the difference between the Fed. '94 AWB and Ca's AWB. Threaded barrels and bayonet lugs was part of the '94 AWB but not SB23. ;)

aplinker
03-10-2008, 4:01 PM
This is another case of someone not understanding the difference between the Fed. '94 AWB and Ca's AWB. Threaded barrels and bayonet lugs was part of the '94 AWB but not SB23. ;)

I'm pretty sure Librarian was referring to pistols. He's a smart cookie.

ohsmily
03-10-2008, 4:09 PM
Oh boy, here we go with the flash hinders again. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=42206&highlight=flash+hinder
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1003455&postcount=4

dfletcher
03-10-2008, 4:19 PM
One difference is there's no such thing as a flash hinder...its flash Hider.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_suppressor

If you hinder the hider you'll end up with more flash - if you hinder the flash it's a hider ....... ;)

tempdrummer
03-10-2008, 5:20 PM
If you hinder the hider you'll end up with more flash - if you hinder the flash it's a hider ....... ;)

you say potato I say tomato

:D

fairfaxjim
03-10-2008, 5:31 PM
If you want to understand CA gun laws, the first thing you need to know is they don't make ANYTHING legal. What they do do is make a whole lot of things illegal. Unfortunately, they often do that in combination with other things that may, or more often, may not be related to each other.

The AW laws were written with the intent of making ALL AR, AK, and most everything that looked like them illegal. The resultant laws started with an attempt to list all of those firearms, but that quickly got out of hand. To make that more confusing, they used terms like "all" and "series" in describing the banned firearms. A court case later found that those were not descriptive enough to be usable, and required firearms to be listed specifically by manufacturer and model. The legislature subsequently made a bad situation worse by trying to ban non listed firearms by "features", or actually by a combination of features, much like a Chinese restaurant dinner menu. The only thing the features seem to have in common is that the legislators didn't particularly like the look of them, so decided that two of those features would be a banned firearm.

To further confuse the issure, the federal firearms AW ban had some a features component to it also. It included some of the same, and some different features than that of CA. That law has now sunsetted, and is no longer in force. You will still see reference to pre-ban and post-ban firearms or features. Those only serve to describe what is on that particular firearm, as there is not federal ban now. Those terms have nothing to do with CA law. In order to fully understand the CA AW laws, you need to read the laws, know the history, know the court history, and do a process of elimination. Fortunatelly, in the upper right hand corner of every calguns.net page is a link to the CA AW ID Flowchart, which will basically do the process of elimination for you.

I always tell people to read the laws and understand them before relying on others to tell them what is and isn't legal. The person answering your question can be perfectly correct as he understands the situation. However, your situation may not be exactly as he understands it, and his answer may be incorrect for you. You need to be comfortable that you are legal, and be able to defend your position. "A guy on calguns.net told me it was legal" is a pretty poor defense in court.

Heatseeker
03-10-2008, 6:21 PM
Reading through this thread has me a bit confused(not all that hard to achieve :rolleyes:). On a featureless rifle/carbine build, are threaded barrels considered an evil feature. Looking at the flow chart(which is absolutely brilliant, BTW), I see no reference to threaded barrels.

My next build, now in the planning stage, will be a featureless carbine length AR. I was planning on installing a muzzle break on a threaded barrel. But if that's a no-no in this great state, I'll have to alter course a bit.

jandmtv
03-10-2008, 6:31 PM
threaded barrels on rifles = OK (not evil)
threaded barrels on handguns = NOT OK! (Felony)

aplinker
03-10-2008, 6:38 PM
Threaded barrels, on any rifle, are legal - 100%.

The only time a threaded barrel is an issue is with a semi-automatic pistol, as it's considered a "feature" for an assault weapon.

However, if the threads are PERMANENTLY covered (with a muzzle attachment), then it would be allowed.

oaklander
03-10-2008, 6:39 PM
Threaded barrels are OK on handguns that have fixed magazines of 10 rounds or less.

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:

. . .

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

jandmtv
03-10-2008, 6:43 PM
so a threaded barrel on a revolver is ok?

JayRuff
03-10-2008, 11:18 PM
all this CA legal mumbo jumbo is giving me a big headache

aplinker
03-10-2008, 11:25 PM
Yeah, of course... I should just go back to quoting directly so I don't forget the little pieces.

Do you know of a semi-auto handgun that doesn't have a detachable magazine (short Calguns designs)? Mateba I guess qualifies...

Threaded barrels are OK on handguns that have fixed magazines of 10 rounds or less.

shark92651
03-11-2008, 6:43 AM
all this CA legal mumbo jumbo is giving me a big headache

The headache the CA legal system could give you if you don't understand all of this would be far more painful ;)