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ICONIC
03-16-2014, 12:38 PM
I have been carrying a Mantis Karambit for my EDC.

http://www.mantisknives.com/images/Products/_0031_MK3_Cinq3.jpg


I live and work in LA city so the smaller blade of the knife passes the carry laws.
THe issue I am worried about is if the finger hole could be considered a brass knuckle, I looked up the PC and found nothing about the Karambit mentioned, but the brass knuckle is mentioned.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

RobertMW
03-18-2014, 2:45 PM
The PC reads that it needs to have the purpose of protecting the hand, or for better striking. Personally, I feel that since it is just your pinky that would be covered, I don't think it could really do either.

On another note, I hope that thing has one hell of a lock, because if you trid to stab instead of slash, and the lock disengages, it looks like it would take a hell of a bite out of your fingers.

CSACANNONEER
03-18-2014, 2:51 PM
I've always wondered what this curved design is good for? Is it just the tactifool crowd needing to have crap that they think looks cool? Or, am I missing something?

wamphyri13
03-18-2014, 2:56 PM
It should be a solid knife and not a folder. The karambit is a Indian design, I believe, but I could be wrong. It's not a new style. Shouldn't be a folder, though.
Ryan

uxo2
03-18-2014, 3:16 PM
I've always wondered what this curved design is good for? Is it just the tactifool crowd needing to have crap that they think looks cool? Or, am I missing something?


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Is it just the tactifool crowd needing to have crap that they think looks cool

It all depends IF they know how to use it.

NYT
03-18-2014, 3:21 PM
the hole is used for attaching a clip or other tethering system....

readysetgo
03-19-2014, 7:48 AM
Rough crowd?

First, let's look at the Penal Code, that so far, no one has cited or linked to, shall we?

PENAL CODE - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
TITLE 3. WEAPONS AND DEVICES OTHER THAN FIREARMS [19910 - 23025]
DIVISION 6. KNUCKLES [21710 - 21890]
CHAPTER 1. Composite Knuckles or Hard Wooden Knuckles [21710- 21710.]
CHAPTER 2. Metal Knuckles [21810 - 21890]

Looks like OP is mostly concerned w/ Ch. 2 Metal Knuckles.

21810. Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any metal knuckles is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.
(Amended by Stats. 2012, Ch. 43, Sec. 95. Effective June 27, 2012.)

21890. Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, metal knuckles are a nuisance and are subject to Section 18010.

...basically, it's bad and scary, don't have 'em, don't sell 'em, don't stick 'em in your orifices. Right?

We need a definition, I think. We can find that too.

PENAL CODE - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
TITLE 1. PRELIMINARY PROVISIONS [16000 - 17360]
DIVISION 2. DEFINITIONS [16100 - 17360]

16920.
As used in this part, “metal knuckles” means any device or instrument made wholly or partially of metal that is worn for purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand and that either protects the wearer’s hand while striking a blow or increases the force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving the blow. The metal contained in the device may help support the hand or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of projections or studs which would contact the individual receiving a blow.

OK? Here's my own opinion. Could it be used as a 'offensive or defensive weapon that protects the wearers hand or increases force'? Yes. BUT so could a horseshoe or several hundred other common items, tools etc.

I think OP's knife is NOT a 'metal knuckle' as relates to the PC. It's primary purpose is a knife, the bit on the end is secondary and to me, is mainly for retention of the weapon.

IANAL, form your own dang opinion. :p That is all... :D

Aldemar
03-19-2014, 11:12 AM
To hold a Karambit properly, the handle is obvoiusly inside your fist. Ca law specifies that brass knuckles are on the outside of your fist. I don't see an issue here.

I bought one "just for the hell of it" a few years ago and find it's useless as an EDC. I went back to my plain ordinary folder after the first time I had to use it as an actual knife. It now resides in the back of my safe somewhere.

gaberaynes
03-19-2014, 11:33 AM
It is a folding blade with one ring your good the law is for fixed blades and two ringed I have a fixed blade one ring on ccw the only issue I was advised of is the double rings and fixed blades

Ninask
03-19-2014, 11:58 AM
The karambit is a different approach to knife fighting,
and your technique is very different,
in the hands of a good practitioner it is an awesome weapon,
but don't carry a karambit for protection until you have learned how to manipulate this exotic weapon,
for all intent purposes it is a specialty weapon, a sub-category of typical knife fighting
N

Eirerogue
03-19-2014, 12:32 PM
I carry a Emerson Karambit with a 3" blade as my EDC. Karambits are originally an Indonesan design and in the hands of a good practioner, it's amazingly deadly. I can open and deploy my opened folder as fast as an auto, it's blade size is legal (now that I live in NV, it's NTE 3"). No issue with the round hole on the grip. It greatly assists in drawing the knife and placing it into your hand in a natural position.

bug_eyedmonster
03-24-2014, 3:35 PM
I carry a Emerson Karambit with a 3" blade as my EDC. Karambits are originally an Indonesan design and in the hands of a good practioner, it's amazingly deadly. I can open and deploy my opened folder as fast as an auto, it's blade size is legal (now that I live in NV, it's NTE 3"). No issue with the round hole on the grip. It greatly assists in drawing the knife and placing it into your hand in a natural position.



I carry an Emerson Super Karambit when I feel that I'm going to an area where I'm in need of actual protection or carry it weak side to aid in weapon retention when carrying a pistol exposed. I have trained with one along with other knives, and it's one of the most efficient knives I can be with (compared to regular knives). Legally, if I ever need to pull the karambit for defense, the last thing I'm worried about it being held accountable for a type of brass knuckles, the other end is much more dangerous.


Jerry

laabstract
03-24-2014, 7:52 PM
Seems a little gimmicky I prefer this guy.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31QYvRTz+GL._SS400_.jpg

blazeaglory
03-27-2014, 7:27 AM
Karambits are awesome blades when used properly. They are shaped like eagles claws...And we all know that eagles claws are soooo useless right?

Spaceghost
04-23-2014, 11:39 AM
This has been discussed before, not worth the risk.

GuyFawkes
04-25-2016, 9:04 PM
It is a folding blade with one ring your good the law is for fixed blades and two ringed I have a fixed blade one ring on ccw the only issue I was advised of is the double rings and fixed blades

You added a fixed blade to your CCW license? I didn't know you could do that. Which county?

gorn5150
05-15-2016, 2:16 PM
I've always wondered what this curved design is good for? Is it just the tactifool crowd needing to have crap that they think looks cool? Or, am I missing something?

That curved blade style is used for slashing as opposed to stabbing. It digs in to the flesh much better. The karambit is from the Indonesia area. It was used as a farming implement by the Filipinos before they started using it as a weapon. It's history starts way before the tactifool movement.

Saintwicked
05-15-2016, 2:21 PM
This one goes everywhere with me. http://www.karambit.com/karambits/folding-karambits/emerson-waved-karambits/fox-479-black-g10-folding-karambit-emerson-wave/

Bull's_eye
07-06-2016, 10:53 AM
I've been considering getting one for bleeding out fish while kayak fishing. Seems the curved blade would be really easy to hook under the gills and pull through. Wonder if anyone makes one with a titanium blade to hold up to the salt water.

GuyFawkes
07-06-2016, 11:02 AM
OK? Here's my own opinion. Could it be used as a 'offensive or defensive weapon that protects the wearers hand or increases force'? Yes. BUT so could a horseshoe or several hundred other common items, tools etc.

I think OP's knife is NOT a 'metal knuckle' as relates to the PC. It's primary purpose is a knife, the bit on the end is secondary and to me, is mainly for retention of the weapon.

IANAL, form your own dang opinion. :p That is all... :D

Technically nothing worn on your hand can increase the "force" of a blow, only the pressure. Pressure = Force / Area

When you use a pointed object as opposed to a blunt object the difference is the area not the force. Smaller area, larger pressure, same force.

Then again, this would be looking only at the letter of the law and not the intention of the law which is obviously to reduce pressure of the blow.

TwentyOneFeet
07-06-2016, 12:16 PM
Titanium is terrible blade material. Just get a folding hawk bill knife if you like that. Spyderco has a lot. And probably in H1 steel, which is engineered for salt environments. The Spyderco harpy is an option. Or you can just get a cheep one from a hardware store that will work fine, and not a big deal if it falls off the dock.
I've been considering getting one for bleeding out fish while kayak fishing. Seems the curved blade would be really easy to hook under the gills and pull through. Wonder if anyone makes one with a titanium blade to hold up to the salt water.

TwentyOneFeet
07-06-2016, 12:23 PM
As for the OP, LA is stupid. Carry the penal code folded in your wallet. As other posters have stated, the hole is for retention. The blade is a hook. Popping through ribs and hooking behind kneecaps for take downs requires the retention hole. Especially covered on blood. This is not a fighting knife. It's for defense and typically best used for weapon retention, as another has stated. Picking someone off your rifle, etc.

This weapon is used in kali, and even if you practice kali, I still don't recommend this weapon for self defense, unless your instructor has confidence in your ability. This blade hurts more users than any other type of blade.

TwentyOneFeet
07-06-2016, 12:40 PM
This is the only thing that concerns me,
"The metal contained in the device may help support the hand or fist"

Either be prepared to argue with an officer with your faded penal code you have in your wallet, or stop carrying in.

My buddy has a matriarch and we put a lanyard on it so he can deploy it like a waved karambit. The matriarch has a wave on it all ready. It function a lot like a ring would deployment wise, but retention wise, you'll have to make some type of ring lanyard or something.

Just extra hassle and dangerous. I have a black talon ll and it's a murderous beast. I can't imagine using it to defend myself, much less open a box in front of ANYONE. If I was an assassin, then yeah. Good ear to ear knife. But that's illegal. The bad kind of illegal.

GuyFawkes
07-09-2016, 10:29 AM
As for the OP, LA is stupid. Carry the penal code folded in your wallet. As other posters have stated, the hole is for retention. The blade is a hook. Popping through ribs and hooking behind kneecaps for take downs requires the retention hole. Especially covered on blood. This is not a fighting knife. It's for defense and typically best used for weapon retention, as another has stated. Picking someone off your rifle, etc.

This weapon is used in kali, and even if you practice kali, I still don't recommend this weapon for self defense, unless your instructor has confidence in your ability. This blade hurts more users than any other type of blade.

In most of the marketing and training videos I've seen for karambits they do use the finger hole as an impact weapon as well as for retention. This is the issue that concerns me.

TwentyOneFeet
07-09-2016, 10:45 AM
The same argument can be made for this http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-r-2-ZDIBmsM/UgsFX58AGNI/AAAAAAAAAP0/s1nNGUit0sY/s1600/ft17.jpg
As well, honestly, because of how vague it is. Which also means it could be fought the other way. Either way it's bad. You're going to have to argue with the cop either way. Chances are he will probably think a Karambit is illegal anyway.

GuyFawkes
07-09-2016, 10:52 AM
The same argument can be made for this http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-r-2-ZDIBmsM/UgsFX58AGNI/AAAAAAAAAP0/s1nNGUit0sY/s1600/ft17.jpg
As well, honestly, because of how vague it is. Which also means it could be fought the other way. Either way it's bad. You're going to have to argue with the cop either way. Chances are he will probably think a Karambit is illegal anyway.

If "worn for purposes of offense or defense" then yes.

ScottsBad
07-09-2016, 10:59 AM
It should be a solid knife and not a folder. The karambit is a Indian design, I believe, but I could be wrong. It's not a new style. Shouldn't be a folder, though.
Ryan

You cannot legally conceal it in CA if it is fixed blade. That folding karambit is legal I believe.

As for it's usefulness....well it's only good for one thing and that is self defense.

I keep a 4" folder that opens fast, or a 3.25" ASSISTED folder. Both have pocket clips for easy removal. It is easier to explain a slightly more traditional folder, even if it is an aggressive folder, than a karambit.

ScottsBad
07-09-2016, 11:08 AM
Technically nothing worn on your hand can increase the "force" of a blow, only the pressure. Pressure = Force / Area

When you use a pointed object as opposed to a blunt object the difference is the area not the force. Smaller area, larger pressure, same force.

Then again, this would be looking only at the letter of the law and not the intention of the law which is obviously to reduce pressure of the blow.

The way that knife is designed you can use the weight of your body in a ripping motion. That will make employing force more efficient, by a lot. It's not a stabber it is a grabber.