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View Full Version : A Place to Shoot, Tac / Prec Rifle Match - 22 March 08


Timberwolf
03-06-2008, 8:47 AM
Tactical / Precision Rifle Match
March 22, 2008

A Place to Shoot in Saugus, CA will be having its monthly Tactical / Precision Rifle Match on Saturday, March 22, 2008. Registration will begin at 0700 and the first stage will begin at 0730. The match should run until approximately 1200.

The fee for the match will be $25.00 for early registration, $30.00 for match day walk-ons. Plaques and certificates will for awarded to the top three finishers and a medal will be awarded to the top shooter in the 100 - yard dot drill. This is limited to 20 competitors so pre-registration is suggested. Furthermore, since this is the Saturday before Easter I would like to get a solid count as to who will be attending to insure that we have the minimum number of competitors to run the match (5 shooters minimum). If you’re interested in registering or have any questions either PM me through this forum or email me directly at billerwin@msn.com.

rksimple
03-06-2008, 9:20 AM
I'll let you know. Randy just got the brake in yesterday. He just has to spin it up and paint it and I think its done.

wildcard
03-06-2008, 9:23 AM
Well I can't just let Ryan get a free trophy.. he's going to have to work for it.. I want a piece of the action! If I say "Yes" right now, does that mean I'll have to shoot first AGAIN?

Timberwolf
03-06-2008, 9:25 AM
Well I can't just let Ryan get a free trophy.. he's going to have to work for it.. I want a piece of the action! If I say "Yes" right now, does that mean I'll have to shoot first AGAIN?

I thought you liked shooting first :p

wildcard
03-06-2008, 9:37 AM
I thought you liked shooting first :p

I actually do.. but having a few people in front of you helps with sighting and scoring :)

PistolPete75
03-06-2008, 11:32 AM
count me in. i would like to shoot at position 5 if possible. tnx!

wildcard
03-06-2008, 11:37 AM
count me in. i would like to shoot at position 5 if possible. tnx!

Guys with nice rifles go first! So we skipping class?

PistolPete75
03-06-2008, 12:18 PM
Guys with nice rifles go first! So we skipping class?

yep yep. again position #5 would be great. i'm learning to do my wind adjustments in mills, so please place me in the middle somewhere. tnx Bill!

Prc329
03-06-2008, 12:27 PM
I am pretty sure I will be there.

DON AUGUSTINE
03-06-2008, 12:30 PM
Bill-
I cant pm you for some reason---Ill be at your match.


Thanks DON AUGUSTINE

EmphaticThumb
03-06-2008, 12:32 PM
I will be there, unless you don't want me back since I shot the base of your target last match.

PistolPete75
03-06-2008, 12:35 PM
Bill-
I cant pm you for some reason---Ill be at your match.


Thanks DON AUGUSTINE

are you bringing your buddies too?

DON AUGUSTINE
03-06-2008, 12:39 PM
If he is back from Bragg he will come with me if not I will get all the info we need for the N/S shin-dig

wildcard
03-06-2008, 12:45 PM
Ok.. I'll be there.

Timberwolf
03-06-2008, 1:01 PM
I will be there, unless you don't want me back since I shot the base of your target last match.

You're fine

Cypriss32
03-06-2008, 5:58 PM
Ill go. Sighted in my rifle today. Did my load development with 210gr VLDs, 5 shots one hole. 60.0 grs RL22.

Timberwolf
03-07-2008, 9:38 AM
Well it looks like we'll have way more than the minimon 5 shooters so all is a go. Since its Easter weekend maybe I'll put out some colored eggs to find and shoot. A long range Easter Egg Hunt.

PistolPete75
03-07-2008, 9:40 AM
Well it looks like we'll have way more than the minimon 5 shooters so all is a go. Since its Easter weekend maybe I'll put out some colored eggs to find and shoot. A long range Easter Egg Hunt.

that'll be cool. good idea. i haven't done an easter egg hunt in years!

wildcard
03-07-2008, 9:48 AM
Do I get a point bonus for spending my birthday shooting with y'all?

Timberwolf
03-07-2008, 10:26 AM
Sure, I'll bring my old leather garrison belt and I'll give you "points" equal to your age plus a couple to grow on

wildcard
03-07-2008, 10:29 AM
Sure, I'll bring my old leather garrison belt and I'll give you "points" equal to your age plus a couple to grow on

Let's keep our private lives.. private.





I'll PM you ;)

Timberwolf
03-07-2008, 10:32 AM
:oops:- forgot about the no ask no tell policy . . . :smilielol5:

PistolPete75
03-07-2008, 10:42 AM
Do I get a point bonus for spending my birthday shooting with y'all?

Your birthday and my birthday is only 2 days from each other. The question should be can WE get birthday points?

wildcard
03-07-2008, 10:54 AM
Your birthday and my birthday is only 2 days from each other. The question should be can WE get birthday points?

I never knew that. When is your b-day?

PistolPete75
03-07-2008, 10:20 PM
March 24th. I will be turning 21 yrs old.

Timberwolf
03-07-2008, 11:01 PM
March 24th. I will be turning 21 yrs old.

Sheesh I've got ties older than that.

PistolPete75
03-07-2008, 11:31 PM
Sheesh I've got ties older than that.

that is the best b-day present i could have ever got. tnx Bill! i'm actually turning 33!

ar15barrels
03-08-2008, 12:05 AM
i'm actually turning 33!

Kids...

Prc329
03-08-2008, 8:23 AM
My son turns 1 on the 25th.

Timberwolf
03-08-2008, 8:56 PM
that is the best b-day present i could have ever got. tnx Bill! i'm actually turning 33!

I was 33 once

wildcard
03-09-2008, 1:36 PM
Turning 28 here. I'll officially be in my "Late 20's"

Timberwolf
03-17-2008, 9:49 AM
BTT - if you're planning to attend and haven't let me know yet sing out - I'm expecting a pretty good turnout this month.

PistolPete75
03-17-2008, 11:37 AM
looking forward to the match. c u there.

rksimple
03-17-2008, 1:23 PM
You gonna make it Nayt? I'd love to take a look at your rifle.

Timberwolf
03-17-2008, 1:35 PM
He indicated yesterday he would be.

Prc329
03-17-2008, 1:39 PM
You gonna make it Nayt? I'd love to take a look at your rifle.

I'll be there.

wildcard
03-17-2008, 1:47 PM
I should just stay at home.. I can't compete with this cutom rifle group :( I need a handicap.

Timberwolf
03-17-2008, 1:49 PM
As I side note Bob and I went over some COF ideas yesterday and Savannah and I got "down and dirty" a few times to test our thoughts - y'all are so going to hate me - word to the wise you may want to bring either elbow pads or at least wear a long sleeve shirt/jacket, and gloves might be advisable as well (as I dig splinters out of my hand).

Timberwolf
03-17-2008, 1:51 PM
I should just stay at home.. I can't compete with this cutom rifle group :( I need a handicap.

I already said you didn't have to go first and now you want a handicap too . . . .

Prc329
03-17-2008, 1:58 PM
Wildcard, you have nothing to worry about. As Pete said, its the indian not the arrow. I am pretty sure you will still out shoot me. My position shooting sucks and my rifle ways 83 lds :D

wildcard
03-17-2008, 2:02 PM
I already said you didn't have to go first and now you want a handicap too . . . .

Ever watch "Wishmaster" where the guy twists everyone's wishes into something negative?

You probably planned to put someone shooting a Mosin Nagant or an AR with a EOTech first, and then me second anyways ;)

You saw all those fancy rifles.. but I guess I'll do my best with my inferior set-up and old school 168 SMKs..

rksimple
03-17-2008, 2:04 PM
Ever watch "Wishmaster" where the guy twists everyone's wishes into something negative?

You probably planned to put someone shooting a Mosin Nagant or an AR with a EOTech first, and then me second anyways ;)

You saw all those fancy rifles.. but I guess I'll do my best with my inferior set-up and old school 168 SMKs..

I've shot your rifle with that new brake. I don't think you're giving up much to a custom. In these matches, its all shooter.

wildcard
03-17-2008, 2:07 PM
Wildcard, you have nothing to worry about. As Pete said, its the indian not the arrow. I am pretty sure you will still out shoot me. My position shooting sucks and my rifle ways 83 lds :D

Haha. We have all kinds of different schools of thought here.

Some believe it's the Indian..
Some believe it's the Bow..
And some believe it's the Arrow..

I personally believe it is 50% Indian, 32.5% Bow, 12.5% Arrow, and 5% plain luck :)

I'll be practicing those position in the comfort of my home throughout the week.

wildcard
03-17-2008, 2:15 PM
Just messing around with you guys. As long as my rifle can throw some bullets out the front of the muzzle, that's good enough for me! It'll be fun. Who's showing up early to zero their rifle? I'll be there..

Timberwolf
03-17-2008, 2:18 PM
Just messing around with you guys. As long as my rifle can throw some bullets out the front of the muzzle, that's good enough for me! It'll be fun. Who's showing up early to zero their rifle? I'll be there..

Yes anyone who wants to zero ahead of time post it or PM me and I'll get targets set up for it Friday night before I leave so that its just a mattr of going up laying down and shooting.

rksimple
03-17-2008, 2:23 PM
Haha. We have all kinds of different schools of thought here.

Some believe it's the Indian..
Some believe it's the Bow..
And some believe it's the Arrow..

I personally believe it is 50% Indian, 32.5% Bow, 12.5% Arrow, and 5% plain luck :)

I'll be practicing those position in the comfort of my home throughout the week.

Lets not forget ~30% course of fire. A stage where its timed and 12 rounds are needed is much different than a one round stage.

rksimple
03-17-2008, 2:24 PM
Yes anyone who wants to zero ahead of time post it or PM me and I'll get targets set up for it Friday night before I leave so that its just a mattr of going up laying down and shooting.

I'd put it at about a 90% chance I'll need to zero there. May not even have time to rezero the knobs and set the zero stop.

DON AUGUSTINE
03-17-2008, 3:13 PM
I will need to zero my mess.

PistolPete75
03-17-2008, 3:22 PM
it is the indian and not the bow. 2 different cars will take you to the same place. one might be a little faster, but they'll both end up at the same place.

my reason of spending the big bucks was that this is my last type of rifle that i will need. 30cal, .308 is what i'm sticking with forever. no need to go small bore or go the distance to a .338 lupua

i like to have the best that i can afford to shoot out of. buy once and don't look back.

i've seen everyone shoot. there is not a crappy shooter that i know of here. everyone here is capable of shooting sub-moa groupings, and hitting steel out to 900-1000yards.

ar15barrels
03-17-2008, 3:46 PM
i've seen everyone shoot. there is not a crappy shooter that i know of here. everyone here is capable of shooting sub-moa groupings, and hitting steel out to 900-1000yards.

You should have seen me yesterday.
It was ugly.
8" plates at 350yds from some contorted form of un-supported prone with my 8.5lb AR...
I could not hit crap with the 4 MOA chevron in my 4x Accupoint.
I need something with a crosshair.
Took 3-4 shots to make the hit. :(

PistolPete75
03-17-2008, 3:49 PM
You should have seen me yesterday.
It was ugly.
8" plates at 350yds from some contorted form of un-supported prone with my 8.5lb AR...
I could not hit crap with the 4 MOA chevron in my 4x Accupoint.
I need something with a crosshair.
Took 3-4 shots to make the hit. :(

your getting too used to shooting precision rifle. when i wear too many hats, my mind might get confused of what i'm supposed to be doing.

your a good shot. mayby your just wearing too many hats like me.

ar15barrels
03-17-2008, 3:51 PM
your getting too used to shooting precision rifle. when i wear too many hats, my mind gets might get confused of what i'm supposed to be doing.

Nah, I'm just more used to my 4x ACOG with it's crosshair/ladder reticle than that 4 MOA tall triangle thing...

Why doesn't Trijicon offer the Accupoint with an ACOG TA01NSN reticle in the first focal plane?
That would be THE 3gun optic to own.
I need to try a Meopta K-dot.

PistolPete75
03-17-2008, 3:59 PM
i can understand that. i was so used to shooting my mark 4 that i had a hard time switching to us optics.

it's an ergonomics thing for me. once you get used to the feel of something, and then you have to learn it all over again.

anyways, see you all this weekend. happy shooting.

rksimple
03-17-2008, 4:24 PM
Nah, I'm just more used to my 4x ACOG with it's crosshair/ladder reticle than that 4 MOA tall triangle thing...

Why doesn't Trijicon offer the Accupoint with an ACOG TA01NSN reticle in the first focal plane?
That would be THE 3gun optic to own.
I need to try a Meopta K-dot.

I thought trijicon was going to offer some of the finer acog reticles in the accupoints? That would be quite the 0-400 yard optic.

Prc329
03-17-2008, 4:25 PM
That is why if I buy a FFP scope it will be the SH IOR. As a mater of fact I may just do that and sell my current one. The reticles and controls are pretty much the same.

I was going to buy a new rifle but I think I talked myself out of it on the way home. I have 2 ARs need to finish as well as I want to do an AR10. I have a check burning a hole in my pocket and my eyes were getting big :)

Prc329
03-17-2008, 4:27 PM
Damn, hopefully Scott can have it to me by Friday so I can zero it Saturday. I am 99% sure I will be switching to all mils and being happy.

rksimple
03-17-2008, 4:29 PM
That is why if I buy a FFP scope it will be the SH IOR. As a mater of fact I may just do that and sell my current one. The reticles and controls are pretty much the same.

I was going to buy a new rifle but I think I talked myself out of it on the way home. I have 2 ARs need to finish as well as I want to do an AR10. I have a check burning a hole in my pocket and my eyes were getting big :)

Hold off just a bit on the IOR SH edition. See if the new ones have the failures that the old ones had. There seemed to be quite a few. Then again, maybe I'm just "once bitten twice shy" right now on the SH IOR. Scott at LO and IOR have really stepped up the CS problem IOR had before. Even if it breaks, they'll take care of you.

This fall, Premier Reticle is supposed to be coming out with their own FFP mil/mil scope. Supposed to be just a bit more than the SH IOR. Might be one to look at. Theres also the FFP nightforce. Options are opening up for those who want FFP, illumination, and mil/mil.

Prc329
03-17-2008, 4:32 PM
I have been following it pretty closely because I have wanted one for a while. The failure was traced to an exotic material used to hold an important part in place. Now it has been replaced with steel. Is the nightforce available yet? Damn I forgot the SH is non illuminated :(

Vu 308
03-17-2008, 4:41 PM
That is why if I buy a FFP scope it will be the SH IOR. As a mater of fact I may just do that and sell my current one. The reticles and controls are pretty much the same.

I was going to buy a new rifle but I think I talked myself out of it on the way home. I have 2 ARs need to finish as well as I want to do an AR10. I have a check burning a hole in my pocket and my eyes were getting big :)

YO PRC..got a guy selling one for 1100.00 up here..brand spanking new IOR SH edition.

I dunno if it is sold yet or not.

Prc329
03-17-2008, 4:44 PM
Find out for me and have him email me. I'll PM you.

Prc329
03-17-2008, 6:26 PM
dammit. I am to indecisive.

rksimple
03-17-2008, 8:21 PM
Yes anyone who wants to zero ahead of time post it or PM me and I'll get targets set up for it Friday night before I leave so that its just a mattr of going up laying down and shooting.

Randy just emailed me with a pic of the unfinished rifle. Should be ready tomorrow. If I don't get a chance to go out by friday, I'll let you know.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/RyanKerr1.jpg

wildcard
03-17-2008, 8:44 PM
0Ooh.. sexy.

Do you get to choose what color you want to finish it?

Going to do some camo?

Prc329
03-17-2008, 8:46 PM
I really like the look of the silver barrel. Considering leaving mine that way.

rksimple
03-17-2008, 8:55 PM
0Ooh.. sexy.

Do you get to choose what color you want to finish it?

Going to do some camo?

Silver looks pretty slick. But he's going to finish it in black moly. I was going to do tan, but thought the black would provide a better base while I decide what camo I want to do. I'll probably try the alumahyde on the stock to see how well it holds up and how it looks. Then go from there.

Timberwolf
03-17-2008, 10:13 PM
I really like the look of the silver barrel. Considering leaving mine that way.

I've got a fresh can on florescent pink krylon at the range :whistling:

PistolPete75
03-17-2008, 10:55 PM
i like the stainless look too. very nice. can't wait till i see the s&b on that bad boy.

rksimple
03-18-2008, 12:54 PM
I've got a fresh can on florescent pink krylon at the range :whistling:

No need. He got it done. Hope I can break outta here early and go pick it up tonight.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/Ryan_Kerr5.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/Ryan_Kerr3.jpg

wildcard
03-18-2008, 12:58 PM
Look at what you guys did..

ar15barrels
03-18-2008, 1:11 PM
No need. He got it done. Hope I can break outta here early and go pick it up tonight.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/Ryan_Kerr5.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/Ryan_Kerr3.jpg

Someone has a short neck to shoot with the scope that far back.

Prc329
03-18-2008, 1:15 PM
O.K., you just convinced me to paint mine :)

wildcard
03-18-2008, 1:17 PM
dammit. I am to indecisive.

ANOTHER Nayt moment :)

Timberwolf
03-18-2008, 1:25 PM
O.K., you just convinced me to paint mine :)

I guess this means you won't be needing my painting services . . . I had the perfect camo scheme for your barrel too, florescent orange, hot pink and blazing lime green.

rksimple
03-18-2008, 1:31 PM
Someone has a short neck to shoot with the scope that far back.

Thats the same thing I thought. I'll need to see how it feels.

PistolPete75
03-18-2008, 1:40 PM
I guess this means you won't be needing my painting services . . . I had the perfect camo scheme for your barrel too, florescent orange, hot pink and blazing lime green.

those are the best colors. why don't you go first, and we'll all follow right behind you. then we'll do a testing of which colors have the tighests groupings.

Timberwolf
03-18-2008, 1:47 PM
those are the best colors. why don't you go first, and we'll all follow right behind you. then we'll do a testing of which colors have the tighests groupings.

Savannah hates flash

Prc329
03-18-2008, 2:01 PM
I guess this means you won't be needing my painting services . . . I had the perfect camo scheme for your barrel too, florescent orange, hot pink and blazing lime green.

I have an AR that may end up those colors :D

wildcard
03-20-2008, 5:46 PM
Just to brings things back on topic for just a second.. is the round count the usual 25?

And as a reminder, I'll be there at 7 to zero.

rksimple
03-20-2008, 5:57 PM
25? Thats it? Seems we had more earlier last year. Toward the end of the year, round count started going down.

ar15barrels
03-20-2008, 6:11 PM
25? Thats it? Seems we had more earlier last year. Toward the end of the year, round count started going down.

I fired 14 rounds in January.

Timberwolf
03-20-2008, 11:49 PM
Bring 50 rds we may have a few 5 - 10 rd strings

PistolPete75
03-21-2008, 3:01 PM
not as ready as i want to be, but i'll be there tomorrow. i mixed two lots of rl15, and it's making my dope from 600yard plus a little cookoo. i didn't think it mattered, but it did. c you tomorrow.

ar15barrels
03-21-2008, 3:02 PM
i mixed two lots of rl15

RTFM. ;)

PistolPete75
03-21-2008, 3:06 PM
opps. can you say vertical stringing? 600yards plus, i'm gonna have to do a little guessing. at least, only 1 round is past 600yards anyways.

ar15barrels
03-21-2008, 3:09 PM
opps. can you say vertical stringing? 600yards plus, i'm gonna have to do a little guessing. at least, only 1 round is past 600yards anyways.

For your own education, I recommend a chronograph session with this ammo.
Look at the actual differences in velocity at each shot while noting the amount of drop at 600.

It will start to scare you into loading for tight ES/SD, but that's a good thing. :)

PistolPete75
03-21-2008, 3:14 PM
For your own education, I recommend a chronograph session with this ammo.
Look at the actual differences in velocity at each shot while noting the amount of drop at 600.

It will start to scare you into loading for tight ES/SD, but that's a good thing. :)

i did a test run last weekend, and i had a wide variance of 40-60fps. 2720 to 2780fps out of nayt's chrono. did some test shooting, and my result from 600yards plus was very inconsistant. positive side was that was the last of that batch that was mixed, but the negative side is my dope is all screwed up from 600-1000yards. i'll get it fixed by the next match though. never again will i save a 1/10 of a pound of powder and mix it up with a new batch of powder.

anyways gotta get some case lube and reload, cause i ain't got no more ammo left. c u tomorrow.

ar15barrels
03-21-2008, 11:02 PM
c u tomorrow.

I'm doing 3gun tomorrow.
The biggest match of the year is next weekend so I have been shooting a 3gun or action type match every weekend for the last 3 weeks...

I'll be back to try some precision rifle next month though.
Gotta get tuned up for North/South, SCPRC and maybe SVSC...

PistolPete75
03-22-2008, 2:12 PM
good match Bill. calgunners finished 1st through fourth. there were 12 or 14 shooters. jason got first place, then ryan, pasqel, and me. jason was on fire.

you guys missed out, winds from 5-15mph.

we missed you naty and randall. next time you guys got to come out and play.

Prc329
03-22-2008, 3:43 PM
I overslept. Alarm was set for 5:30pm instead of am.

good match Bill. calgunners finished 1st through fourth. there were 12 or 14 shooters. jason got first place, then ryan, pasqel, and me. jason was on fire.

you guys missed out, winds from 5-15mph.

we missed you naty and randall. next time you guys got to come out and play.

PistolPete75
03-22-2008, 4:59 PM
nayt, i dunno how you shoot with your bipod with claws. it is way too high to shoot prone with for me. i'm going to get rid of mine, and go with the shorter version.

Prc329
03-22-2008, 8:17 PM
Its a 6"-9" bipod. The 9"-13" was way to tall with the pod claws.

Cypriss32
03-23-2008, 12:35 AM
Im waiting for the results... Its no surprise randle was not there.

ar15barrels
03-23-2008, 1:21 AM
Im waiting for the results... Its no surprise randle was not there.

I told everyone I would not be there 2 months ago. :rolleyes:
I have been shooting every 3gun match available through this weekend to get ready for SMM3G next weekend. ;)

ar15barrels
03-23-2008, 1:21 AM
good match Bill. calgunners finished 1st through fourth. there were 12 or 14 shooters. jason got first place, then ryan, pasqel, and me.

How did Adam finish?

Timberwolf
03-23-2008, 7:29 AM
I'll post the results later today. All shot a good match despite the ever present wind that made all use good ol' "Kentucky windage" to drift their rounds in at any distance over 200 yards.

A word to the wise for our NorCal brothers . . . if you want to concede and just agree that this year's trophy will remain at the Wolf's Lair I'll understand . . . I'd hate to see y'all drive many hours only to return empty handed.

Cypriss32
03-23-2008, 8:55 AM
Not last I dont think? Yesterday was dedicated to leanring some new stuff. I went my reasoning skills, no dope/data.

Vu 308
03-23-2008, 10:15 AM
I'll post the results later today. All shot a good match despite the ever present wind that made all use good ol' "Kentucky windage" to drift their rounds in at any distance over 200 yards.

A word to the wise for our NorCal brothers . . . if you want to concede and just agree that this year's trophy will remain at the Wolf's Lair I'll understand . . . I'd hate to see y'all drive many hours only to return empty handed.


Now now Twolf....if you call that lil 10mph puff wind then we are all good.

How about you gift wrap that trophy, send an a nice thank you for not whooping our asses in our own house card up North and we may let you walk away. LOL.

PS....my S.C.A.W.R (so cal *** whoopin rig) is almost dialed in.

5 Shot group below was at 600 in wind yesterday afternoon. 12.5MOA to 600
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/vuhpham/260rem600yard.jpg

rksimple
03-23-2008, 10:53 AM
Now now Twolf....if you call that lil 10mph puff wind then we are all good.

How about you gift wrap that trophy, send an a nice thank you for not whooping our asses in our own house card up North and we may let you walk away. LOL.

PS....my S.C.A.W.R (so cal *** whoopin rig) is almost dialed in.

5 Shot group below was at 600 in wind yesterday afternoon. 12.5MOA to 600


It wasn't necessarily the 10-15 mph wind, it was what the wind was doing. Its not like a nice flat range where you can see mirage, the wind is more consistent, etc. Not to say that the sac valley wind hasn't betrayed me, but its easier than having 4 different wind directions and speeds between you and the target, as well as firing at angles. It was a learning day at APS, for sure.

BTW VU, what are you running in the 260? 139 scenars? What powder? I get 12.25 MOA to 600 with the 155 scenars at 2925 in a 308. Not too bad for an old dog of a caliber, eh?

ar15barrels
03-23-2008, 10:54 AM
It wasn't necessarily the 10-15 mph wind, it was what the wind was doing. Its not like a nice flat range where you can see mirage, the wind is more consistent, etc. Not to say that the sac valley wind hasn't betrayed me, but its easier than having 4 different wind directions and speeds between you and the target

Sounds like a normal day at WEGC to me...

rksimple
03-23-2008, 11:10 AM
Sounds like a normal day at WEGC to me...

Never been there. Are there targets up on hillsides and such? Its always fun trying to see mirage when you're shooting across gullys, canyons...or out of a dumpster.:D I should have some pics soon.

ar15barrels
03-23-2008, 11:39 AM
Are there targets up on hillsides and such?

Yep.
We don't really have any flat ground and certainly no good places to read mirage.
Much like APS, but our canyon is longer and narrower, being mostly closed at both ends.

http://www.wegc.org/images/wegcsat3.jpg

View from the 500M firing line looking towards the target pits a few days after the 2003 fire:
http://www.wegc.org/fire/Fire04.JPG

Prc329
03-23-2008, 11:55 AM
SCPRC should be interesting.

rksimple
03-23-2008, 11:59 AM
SCPRC should be interesting.

Yeah, we need to do some recon at a monthly match there.

ar15barrels
03-23-2008, 12:15 PM
Yeah, we need to do some recon at a monthly match there.

Highly recommended.

Timberwolf
03-23-2008, 3:01 PM
WEGC can get knarly - the cross drafts and swirls will test your skills - every set of canyons has their quirks . . . APS has its own liitle ones as does WEGC - if you've not shot there before I'd highly recommend hitting one of Mark's matches before SCPRC '08 and take detailed notes.

Vu 308
03-23-2008, 3:58 PM
It wasn't necessarily the 10-15 mph wind, it was what the wind was doing. Its not like a nice flat range where you can see mirage, the wind is more consistent, etc. Not to say that the sac valley wind hasn't betrayed me, but its easier than having 4 different wind directions and speeds between you and the target, as well as firing at angles. It was a learning day at APS, for sure.

BTW VU, what are you running in the 260? 139 scenars? What powder? I get 12.25 MOA to 600 with the 155 scenars at 2925 in a 308. Not too bad for an old dog of a caliber, eh?


139s
H4831SC 47.0gn...slightly compressed but 0 pressure signs in my rifle.
Rem Brass
2.240 to OGIVE
F210M primer

2925....fast load. 308 is a good work horse and you can't beat it for barrel life. But with the 155s going that fast you are pushing the 308 to its limits.

12.25 there..but @ 200ASL I bet you will be almost 13MOA.

I am almost .5 to .75MOA high when i shoot down south.

rksimple
03-23-2008, 4:04 PM
139s
H4831SC 47.0gn...slightly compressed but 0 pressure signs in my rifle.
Rem Brass
2.240 to OGIVE
F210M primer

2925....fast load. 308 is a good work horse and you can't beat it for barrel life. But with the 155s going that fast you are pushing the 308 to its limits.

12.25 there..but @ 200ASL I bet you will be almost 13MOA.

I am almost .5 to .75MOA high when i shoot down south.


Sounds like a good load. Have you chronoed it? What do you expect for barrel life with that load?

My actual dope for my 2925 load is around 11.75 MOA to 600 up here at 4000ft where I live. I love these higher elevations.

Timberwolf
03-23-2008, 4:05 PM
[QUOTE=Vu 308;1084877]
2925....fast load. 308 is a good work horse and you can't beat it for barrel life. But with the 155s going that fast you are pushing the 308 to its limits.

QUOTE]

Vu - the new load I'm working with for my .308 is pushing the 155 Scenars at 2970 fps @ 10' from the muzzle at 60 F. I've just started working with this load and it may be replacing my old standby 175 load if I can just bring myself to do it.

rksimple
03-23-2008, 4:08 PM
[QUOTE=Vu 308;1084877]
2925....fast load. 308 is a good work horse and you can't beat it for barrel life. But with the 155s going that fast you are pushing the 308 to its limits.

QUOTE]

Vu - the new load I'm working with for my .308 is pushing the 155 Scenars at 2970 fps @ 10' from the muzzle at 60 F. I've just started working with this load and it may be replacing my old standby 175 load if I can just bring myself to do it.

Those rock barrels are screamers. I hope I can get my Bartlein to do that!

Timberwolf
03-23-2008, 4:13 PM
[QUOTE=Timberwolf;1084892]

Those rock barrels are screamers. I hope I can get my Bartlein to do that!

How true. I don't know if its just this barrel or Rocks in general but this is THE fastest barrel I've ever had, but its also my first Rock (not knocking the other custom barrels). I now has 4K+ rds down the tube and no apprecialbe loss in accuracy. Of course the way I shoot who could tell anyway.

Vu 308
03-23-2008, 5:48 PM
[QUOTE=Vu 308;1084877]
2925....fast load. 308 is a good work horse and you can't beat it for barrel life. But with the 155s going that fast you are pushing the 308 to its limits.

QUOTE]

Vu - the new load I'm working with for my .308 is pushing the 155 Scenars at 2970 fps @ 10' from the muzzle at 60 F. I've just started working with this load and it may be replacing my old standby 175 load if I can just bring myself to do it.

Twolf, @ 60 degrees that may be good to go but up here in August with that...100 + degrees + a hot chamber after multiple rounds could spell trouble.


RK..I am looking around 2500 to maybe 3K if I baby the barrel which I won't.

To be honest I don't chrony much. I just shoot it at distance and see how the load performs. I run some numbers to get generic drop data and then confirm on the 1K range.

Looks like at 600 my verticle spread is less than 1/2MOA so I am good to go.

Vu

rksimple
03-23-2008, 7:02 PM
[QUOTE=Timberwolf;1084892]

Twolf, @ 60 degrees that may be good to go but up here in August with that...100 + degrees + a hot chamber after multiple rounds could spell trouble.


RK..I am looking around 2500 to maybe 3K if I baby the barrel which I won't.

To be honest I don't chrony much. I just shoot it at distance and see how the load performs. I run some numbers to get generic drop data and then confirm on the 1K range.

Looks like at 600 my verticle spread is less than 1/2MOA so I am good to go.

Vu

You don't chrono? Do you run field firing solutions? Any info on that program? I remember you saying the guy that developed it shot with you guys. I'm looking to buy it.

Timberwolf
03-23-2008, 9:14 PM
I tested it at 80 deg this weekend with no problems - during load testing I went as high as .5 grn above the load I settled on without pressure signs so we'll see. With RE 15 I'm not that worried about temp swings as I've found it nearly as stable as Varget. If it does raise a little I'm more worried about it going outside the accuracy node.

Vu 308
03-23-2008, 9:26 PM
[QUOTE=Vu 308;1085083]

You don't chrono? Do you run field firing solutions? Any info on that program? I remember you saying the guy that developed it shot with you guys. I'm looking to buy it.


Nope...I own a Chrony...but never worry myself with numbers like that. People start chasing their tails worried about ES and SDs.

I shoot mine at 600 and 800, 900, and 1K...proof is on the paper.

I run stuff in Fields Firing Solution to get generic come ups to get me started but never rely on a computer to tell me what I can see on paper at distance.

For example...if your load shoots 10X at 1K..and your chrony tells you its 50FPS ES...are you going to care? I don't.

But on the other hand if you get good numbers and your load sucks at distance, what is more important?

Blaine Fields Fields firing solution is bad a55 and probably one of the most accurate ballistics software you can buy.

If I were to carry a PDA with software FFS would be it.

+ He is one hell of a guy.

PistolPete75
03-24-2008, 12:05 PM
Its a 6"-9" bipod. The 9"-13" was way to tall with the pod claws.

just sold my bipod with claws for $175, and ordered a regular 6-9 swivel with pod locks.

your right the 9-13 was ridiculous high, and claws are a little annoying to straighten out all the time.

Prc329
03-24-2008, 12:56 PM
just sold my bipod with claws for $175, and ordered a regular 6-9 swivel with pod locks.

your right the 9-13 was ridiculous high, and claws are a little annoying to straighten out all the time.


I have actually been thinking of selling both of mine and getting the AI bipod.

PistolPete75
03-24-2008, 1:03 PM
I have actually been thinking of selling both of mine and getting the AI bipod.

whatever gives you a steady prone. ai bipod is so pricey, and i don't see an advantage over the harris expect for the looks.

wildcard
03-24-2008, 1:05 PM
Yeah.. Pod Claws are nice once you get them into the ground.. but they're a pain in the butt when you're deploying or stowing them.

Great if you're having a practice session in the loose dirt or sand.. but horrible if you're on the move.

The one way to overcome this con is to friction lock it in place.. but this does not apply to the leg notch version. The friction lock itself also adds a level of inconvenience..

Timberwolf
03-24-2008, 1:09 PM
whatever gives you a steady prone. ai bipod is so pricey, and i don't see an advantage over the harris expect for the looks.

It pans and cants whereas a Harris only cants. AIs are a little taller than you may need with an AI except in the field. The way the AI stock is the 6-9 Harris is perfect in most applications where you're shooting off a flat surface.

rksimple
03-24-2008, 1:13 PM
The bad about the AI is that you can't lock it down. Its not as stable as a Harris locked down with a pod loc (to me anyway). The AI bipod takes some getting used to they say.

Prc329
03-24-2008, 1:15 PM
It pans and cants whereas a Harris only cants. AIs are a little taller than you may need with an AI except in the field. The way the AI stock is the 6-9 Harris is perfect in most applications where you're shooting off a flat surface.

That is the reason I was considering it but couldn't find the height on the AI bipods. Anyone know where to get HK hooks for a TIS sling?

The only issue I have with my 6-9 is at APS it can be difficult to see the buff from the rifle line prone with it. I either have to get it out of the dirt and either put it on the tie or the concrete. Then the but of the rifle is either on the ground or close to it.

PistolPete75
03-24-2008, 1:15 PM
what do you mean it by when it "pans"?

Prc329
03-24-2008, 1:16 PM
what do you mean it by when it "pans"?

It spins so the legs stay put if tracking a mover or engaging multiple targets some distance from each other..

PistolPete75
03-24-2008, 1:25 PM
i'm just gonna start practice shooting off a sack too. improvising on the field is a must. i learned that lesson last weekend.

Timberwolf
03-24-2008, 1:52 PM
The AI is 9-13 - it can be a little high for prone especially if the target is even or down hill especially if you're using only your hand as rear support (ala SCPRC). Like I said I use my AI mainly when I'm field shooting or in unknown territory where I don't know what to expect - if I need it lower in the front I dig a furrow for the feet - if I'm shooting off a pad or real flat area I rely on the 6-9 Harris. Both are in my drag bag all the time. At last years SCPRC I used the 6-9 as alot of the shots were angled down.

Timberwolf
03-24-2008, 1:54 PM
Also I don't recommend using the side sling hookups if you plan on slinging up. Get a front hand stop with a sling swivel and drill and tap the rear of the stock on the bottom for a stud.

EmphaticThumb
03-24-2008, 2:13 PM
Just to muddy the bipod waters, if you are interested in a AI(Parker Hale) style bipod Versa Pod makes a few different heights and I think some models have a friction lock to tighten up the cant. I have read mixed reports on the quality of their products but I haven't seen one in person. I might get one for my .22 if I start putting together a rifle for the .22 Tactical match since it is the same style as the AI.

Link "sniper" bipod (http://www.versapod.com/proddetail.asp?prod=150%2D049)

Timberwolf
03-24-2008, 2:36 PM
I have seen a few Versa Pods here and there - the reports on them are mixxed but they are not the same quality as the AI bipod. To me its like comparing a Harris bipod and a Stoney Point bipod.

rksimple
03-24-2008, 4:11 PM
I have seen a few Versa Pods here and there - the reports on them are mixxed but they are not the same quality as the AI bipod. To me its like comparing a Harris bipod and a Stoney Point bipod.

I'll have to take a look at yours again next time. Did you have to get used to it not being "stable" and wanting to flop around from side to side? I might be in the market for one. We got a bunch back in taxes and wifey said I could put an AIAW on layaway if I want. I think she wants something too. I have to be careful with this.:D

Timberwolf
03-24-2008, 4:15 PM
Once you get used to it its fine - I never notice any flop but then I don't use a PodLoc on my Harris either.

QuickOnTheDraw
03-24-2008, 7:17 PM
That is the reason I was considering it but couldn't find the height on the AI bipods. Anyone know where to get HK hooks for a TIS sling?

The only issue I have with my 6-9 is at APS it can be difficult to see the buff from the rifle line prone with it. I either have to get it out of the dirt and either put it on the tie or the concrete. Then the but of the rifle is either on the ground or close to it.

Look here for the HK hooks for the TIS Sling

here...http://www.diytacticalstore.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=136