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aileron
03-05-2008, 05:33 AM
Don't care for his interpretation, especially the blurb about just learning about the 2nd. Hogwash.

Articles like this appear to me as if they are trying to sway the justices through the press. As if maybe they will read the article, and consider it.



By LAURENCE H. TRIBE
March 4, 2008; Page A16

The Supreme Court is set to hear oral argument later this month in a politically charged gun-control case from the District of Columbia. The case involves a city resident who contends that the District is violating his rights under the Second Amendment with a citywide ban on handguns.

Gun enthusiasts on the right are all but daring justices who protect a woman's right to choose, nowhere mentioned in the Constitution, to trash the "right of the people to keep and bear arms," enshrined in the text of the Second Amendment. If the Supreme Court does what they fear and reduces the gun right to a relic of the days when all "able-bodied men" constituted each state's "militia," they will use that defeat to suggest that we need a president who will bring us a truly "conservative" Supreme Court.

Those on the left have at the same time challenged a court that they see as already leaning hard right to live up to its conservative principles, follow precedent, and limit the Second Amendment -- as the text of its preamble seems to invite -- to the preservation of each state's "well-regulated militia," ending once and for all the idea that the Constitution enshrines a personal right to wield firearms.

The court would be foolhardy to accept either side's invitation that it plunge headlong into the culture wars by accepting these extreme ways of framing the issue. It is true that some liberal scholars like me, having studied the text and history closely, have concluded, against our political instincts, that the Second Amendment protects more than a collective right to own and use guns in the service of state militias and national guard units. Opponents of the District's flat ban on handgun possession have cited my words to the court and in newspaper editorials in their support.

But nothing I have discovered or written supports an absolute right to possess the weapons of one's choice. The lower court's decision in this case -- the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals found the District's ban on concealable handguns in a densely populated area to be unconstitutional -- went overboard. Under any plausible standard of review, a legislature's choice to limit the citizenry to rifles, shotguns and other weapons less likely to augment urban violence need not, and should not, be viewed as an unconstitutional abridgment of the right of the people to keep or bear arms.

For the Supreme Court to go any further than this in overturning the lower court's decision -- for it to hold, for instance, that no firearms ban could violate the Second Amendment unless it were to prevent states from organizing militias in their collective self-defense, as the District appears to urge -- would gratuitously fan the flames of doubt about the court's commitment to core constitutional principles, and would save no lives in the process.

Equally foolish would be a decision tilting to the other extreme and upholding the lower court's decision simply because the right to bear arms is, judicial precedent to the contrary notwithstanding, a right that belongs to citizens as individuals. Such a holding would confuse the right to bear arms with a right to own and brandish the firearms of one's choosing.

Worse than that, it would transform a constitutional provision clearly intended and designed to protect the people of the several states from an all-powerful national government into a restriction on the national government's uniquely powerful role as governor of the nation's capital, over which Congress, acting through municipal authorities of the District, exercises the same kind of plenary authority that it exercises over Fort Knox.

Using a case about national legislative power over gun-toting in the capital city as a vehicle for deciding how far Congress or the state of California can go in regulating guns in Los Angeles would be a silly stretch.

Chief Justice John Roberts, ever since his days as a judge on the court of appeals, has virtually defined judicial modesty by opining that if it is not necessary for the court to decide an issue, then it is necessary for the court not to decide that issue. For this reason, and for the further reason that the scholarship on the reach of the Second Amendment and its implementation is still in its infancy, the court should take the smallest feasible step in resolving the case before it.

Issuing a narrow decision would disappoint partisans on both sides and leave many questions unresolved. But to do anything else would ill-suit a court that flies the flag of judicial restraint.

Mr. Tribe, a professor of constitutional law at Harvard Law School, is the author of the forthcoming book "The Invisible Constitution" (Oxford Press).

bulgron
03-05-2008, 06:48 AM
When I read things like this:


Equally foolish would be a decision tilting to the other extreme and upholding the lower court's decision simply because the right to bear arms is, judicial precedent to the contrary notwithstanding, a right that belongs to citizens as individuals. Such a holding would confuse the right to bear arms with a right to own and brandish the firearms of one's choosing.


I have to wonder if the author has done even minimal research into the case. This case is about the right to own weapons in one's own home. And I doubt very much that anything coming out of the Heller case could ever result in a citizen having the right to "brandish" a weapon.

Why do people not understand that for most of us in the gun culture, we want the right to keep and bear arms, yes, but we also expect ourselves and others to do so responsibly and with a modicum of decorum?

mymonkeyman
03-05-2008, 08:33 AM
This is dumb. Firstly he ignores that the DC ban is not only a handgun ban but a ban on all functional firearms in the home: you cannot have a shotgun or rifle in your house for protection in DC, it must stay locked up with a trigger lock or unassembled, with no exception for self-defense.

Secondly, what kind of right is a right to bear arms of the governments choosing? Would he support a right to speech of the government's choosing, or a right to the free practice of a religion of the government's choosing? A right to be secure in the home and articles of the government's choosing?

And how are handguns legally in the home more likely to "augment urban violence" than the current situation, which is massive lawlessness?

GenLee
03-05-2008, 09:08 AM
Letters like this frighten me. Here we have an author, thats a constitutional lawyer? Educated and obviously with the ability to write and interpret the english language, but can so ignorantly misinterpret a plainly written document such as the constitution. Scary.

aileron
03-05-2008, 09:54 AM
Remember this guy is often quoted as a liberal Lawyer who admitted to the 2nd amendment being an individual right.

Here is Gura's comment this morning.

http://www.dcguncase.com/blog/


Professor Tribe

March 4th, 2008 by Alan Gura

In today’s Wall Street Journal, Prof. Laurence Tribe stated the D.C. Circuit went “overboard,” that our position is “extreme,” that handgun bans are constitutional, and that Congress can essentially ignore the Second Amendment when legislating for Washington, D.C.

This is quite a change from Prof. Tribe’s position in May, 2007. At that time, in correspondence with us, Tribe said he would consider playing a “more central role” in our case, with the aim of helping us appeal to justices he perceived to be centrist and left of center. It’s difficult to see how his current position would accomplish that goal.

Paratus et Vigilans
03-05-2008, 11:29 AM
Larry Tribe: No fool like an old fool. :)

Harvard Law = My Articles Get Published

. . . . and that's about it.

Larry Tribe's serious thinking goes into search and seizure issues, the exclusionary rule and Miranda warnings. What he knows about 2nd Amendment and RKBA could fit in a thimble, with room to spare, IMHO.

Silverback
03-05-2008, 11:46 AM
Letters like this frighten me. Here we have an author, thats a constitutional lawyer? ........


:rolleyes: And some of us will go so far as to vote for one. :mad:

dfletcher
03-05-2008, 12:47 PM
So, it's an individual right - but it's an individual right that may be regulated to the point of extinction by the government. Now I get it.

Which school has produced more buttheads - Harvard or Berkley?

hoffmang
03-05-2008, 04:53 PM
The Tribe thing is a mess.

DC's brief filed yesterday - refers to the Tribe Oped. Now, know that the brief was done and at the printer before the WSJ was published and think about two things.

1. Was the WSJ complicit in assisting Tribe in undermining the Second Amendment?

2. Is Larry Tribe just trying to go back on his position to either cover for or to actually get a Supreme Court nomination out of his former student - Barak Obama?

Don't even get me started about how Tribe wanted to support Heller until it became inconvenient or an insult to his ego that his name wasn't Alan Gura...

-Gene

aileron
03-05-2008, 05:27 PM
So now, Lets recap:

1. The US Solicitor General files a brief trying to gut the 2nd, by saying we can continue business as usual which is to allow a continuous eroding of the 2nd amendment. But, its an individual right.

2. He then requests and is granted time with SCOTUS.

3. Laurence Tribe now manages to get the WSJ to publish this article, and miracle of miracle, his article is known by Petitioners before its published and in their brief? :(

Dirty. Dirty. Dirty.

trashman
03-05-2008, 07:00 PM
know that the brief was done and at the printer before the WSJ was published and think about two things.

1. Was the WSJ complicit in assisting Tribe in undermining the Second Amendment?


Gene, that *really* makes my head hurt. Not that I've ever looked to the WSJ editorial page for intellectual consistency, and maybe it's the desert heat out here in the Mojave, but still....

--Neill
(momentarily in) Palmdale, CA

Liberty1
03-05-2008, 09:49 PM
http://dcguncase.com/blog/2008/03/04/professor-tribe/

March 4th, 2008 by Alan Gura

In today’s Wall Street Journal, Prof. Laurence Tribe stated the D.C. Circuit went “overboard,” that our position is “extreme,” that handgun bans are constitutional, and that Congress can essentially ignore the Second Amendment when legislating for Washington, D.C.

This is quite a change from Prof. Tribe’s position in May, 2007. At that time, in correspondence with us, Tribe said he would consider playing a “more central role” in our case, with the aim of helping us appeal to justices he perceived to be centrist and left of center. It’s difficult to see how his current position would accomplish that goal.