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tboyer
03-03-2008, 02:28 PM
Just so every one knows, in San Francisco you must
keep your handgun unloaded and locked up
Sorry I can't provide a web link, but this was
part of a package, and it seems too recent
to be posted on San Francisco's police code
website

Mikail Ali <Mikail.Ali@sfgov.org> wrote:
Subject: Re: Gavin's firearms legislation
To: Thomas Boyer <tomtom94103@yahoo.com>
CC: Kevin Ryan <Kevin.Ryan@sfgov.org>
From: Mikail Ali <Mikail.Ali@sfgov.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:30:15 -0800

Mr. Boyer,

Here's the information that you requested. It was on the SFGOV website.

SEC. 4512. HANDGUNS LOCATED IN A RESIDENCE TO BE KEPT IN A LOCKED
CONTAINER OR DISABLED WITH A TRIGGER LOCK.
(a) Prohibition. No person shall keep a handgun within a residence
owned or controlled by that person unless the handgun is stored in a
locked container or disabled with a trigger lock that has been
approved by the California Department of Justice.
(b) Definitions.
(1) "Residence." As used in this Section, "residence" is any
structure intended or used for human habitation including but
not limited to houses, condominiums, rooms, in law units,
motels, hotels, SRO's, time-shares, recreational and other
vehicles where human habitation occurs.
(2) "Locked container." As used in this Section, "locked
container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and
locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock or similar
locking device.
(3) "Handgun." As used in this Section, "handgun" means any
pistol, revolver, or other firearm that is capable of being
concealed upon the person, designed to be used as a weapon,
capable of expelling a projectile by the force of any explosion
or other form of combustion, and has a barrel less than 16
inches in length.
(4) "Trigger lock." As used in this Section, a "trigger lock"
means a trigger lock that is listed in the California
Department of Justice's list of approved firearms safety
devices and that is identified as appropriate for that handgun
by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the
handgun or to the physical characteristics of the handgun that
match those listed on the roster for use with the device under
Penal Code Section 12088(d).
(c) Exceptions. This Section shall not apply in the following
circumstances:
(1) The handgun is carried on the person of an individual
over the age of 18.
(2) The handgun is under the control of a person who is a
peace officer under Penal Code Section 830.
(d) Lost or Stolen Handguns. In order to encourage reports to law
enforcement agencies of lost or stolen handguns pursuant to San
Francisco Police Code Section 616, a person who files a report with a
law enforcement agency notifying the agency that a handgun has been
lost or stolen shall not be subject to prosecution for violation of
Section 4512(a) above.
(e) Penalty. Every violation of this Section shall constitute a
misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be punished by a fine not to
exceed $1,000.00 or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed
six months, or by both.
(f) Severability. If any provision, clause or word of this chapter
or the application thereof to any person or circumstance is held
invalid, such invalidity shall not affect any other provision,
clause, word or application of this Section which can be given effect
without the invalid provision, clause or word, and to this end the
provisions of this Section are declared to be severable.
(Added by Ord. 193-07, File No. 070683, App. 8/1/2007)

Lieutenant Mikail Ali
Senior Advisor for Public Safety
Mayor's Office of Criminal Justice
City Hall, Suite 496
1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Place
San Francisco, CA 94102
Mikail.Ali@sfgov.org
Direct (415) 554-5320
Fax (415) 554-6995

"Determination without discipline is dreaming." - Paul E. Sheppard





Thomas Boyer
o.com> To
Mikail.Ali@sfgov.org
03/03/2008 01:09 cc
PM
Subject
Gavin's firearms legislation










Hi Mikail: could you please send me the police code, for the Mayor's
firearm
package.
Thanks
Sincerely
Tom Boyer


MAYOR GAVIN NEWSOM, DISTRICT ATTORNEY KAMALA HARRIS UNVEIL NEW FIREARMS
LEGISLATION
Four proposals to regulate firearms aim to make San Francisco safer from
gun violence
SAN FRANCISCO, CA - On the steps of Providence Baptist Church in the
Bayview Hunters Point District -joined by numerous families and community
groups affected by gun violence - Mayor Gavin Newsom and District Attorney
Kamala Harris today introduced legislation to limit the proliferation of
illegal firearms in San Francisco.
The legislative proposals include:
• Prohibiting possession and sale of firearms on County property. This law
disallows guns in local parks, community centers, schools, and government
buildings, and restricts the possibility of gun shows or gun sales from
City and County property.
• Requiring handguns kept in homes to be stored locked containers. This
regulation will protect against accidental shootings by children and
teenagers, which could in the future prevent tragic accidental deaths like
the 14-year-old girl who died in the Western Addition recently. It will
also decrease the possibility of burglaries resulting in stolen weapons.
• Increasing regulatory requirements on gun dealers, to minimize
inappropriate sales of handguns that make their way to the black market.
• Establishing a gun offender registry requiring individuals convicted of a
gun crime to maintain updated information with the city.
“My office has worked diligently for weeks to prepare this legislation,
with the full support of the District Attorney’s office,” said Mayor
Newsom. “Limiting the amount of guns on our streets and upholding the
public safety of all San Franciscans, residents and visitors alike,
continue to be my number one priorities,” continued the Mayor.
“I created this legislation with the Mayor because we firmly believe that
illegal guns are the biggest threat to public safety in San Francisco,”
said District Attorney Harris. “As District Attorney, I am bound to do
everything in my power to protect our residents and our children from gun
violence.”
Local crime statistics:
• The San Francisco Police Department seized 1, 158 guns in 2005 and 1,104
guns in 2006.
• While in 2001, 81 patients were admitted to SF General Trauma Center for
serious injuries resulting from gunshots. The number of patients admitted
for serious injuries rose to 228 by 2006.
• Similarly, the total number of shootings that resulted in nonfatal
injuries documented by SFPD was 269 in 2005, 303 in 2006.
• Gun crimes in and around schools and on buses carrying students to and
from school have become increasingly common.
• In 2003 and 2004, 52% of the City’s gun violence victims were under the
age of 25.
• In 2006, the DA’s Office prosecuted 45% more juvenile gun offenses and
doubled the conviction rate for felony gun trials to 90%, compared to 43%
in 2003.
Homicides committed with handguns are the leading cause of firearms related
injuries and death in California.
###


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now.

MEU(SOC)
03-03-2008, 02:41 PM
When in the world are politicians going to realize the crimes involving firearms are usually committed by those who obtained the weapon illegally? Seriously, I don't think we have serious problems in CA with law abiding gun owning individuals since they're non-felons to begin with. I can understand laws regarding "junk guns" like the .38 Special and such, but sooner or later we're going to end up like England and Australia here. That would mean no CMP programs...bad marksmanship in the country as a whole, and in time of war everybody is cannon fodder. :mad:

GuyW
03-03-2008, 02:43 PM
Heller II

aka

Son of Heller

the proton
03-03-2008, 02:45 PM
I see where it mentions that they must be locked up, but am I missing where it says it must be unloaded?

Sniper3142
03-03-2008, 02:55 PM
Impossible to enforce stupidity.

Any LE or Govt thug stupid enough to go knocking on a door asking if all their handguns were "properly" secured might have a very, very bad day. And anyone foolish enough to allow any LE or Govt thug inside their residence to check should learn better.

:mad:

CitaDeL
03-03-2008, 03:18 PM
Just so every one knows, in San Francisco you must
keep your handgun unloaded and locked up
Sorry I can't provide a web link, but this was
part of a package, and it seems too recent
to be posted on San Francisco's police code
website

Mikail Ali <Mikail.Ali@sfgov.org> wrote:
Subject: Re: Gavin's firearms legislation
To: Thomas Boyer <tomtom94103@yahoo.com>
CC: Kevin Ryan <Kevin.Ryan@sfgov.org>
From: Mikail Ali <Mikail.Ali@sfgov.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:30:15 -0800

Mr. Boyer,

Here's the information that you requested. It was on the SFGOV website.

SEC. 4512. HANDGUNS LOCATED IN A RESIDENCE TO BE KEPT IN A LOCKED CONTAINER OR DISABLED WITH A TRIGGER LOCK.
(a) Prohibition. No person shall keep a handgun within a residence
owned or controlled by that person unless the handgun is stored in a
locked container or disabled with a trigger lock that has been
approved by the California Department of Justice.
(b) Definitions.
(1) "Residence." As used in this Section, "residence" is any
structure intended or used for human habitation including but
not limited to houses, condominiums, rooms, in law units,
motels, hotels, SRO's, time-shares, recreational and other
vehicles where human habitation occurs.
(2) "Locked container." As used in this Section, "locked
container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and
locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock or similar
locking device.
(3) "Handgun." As used in this Section, "handgun" means any
pistol, revolver, or other firearm that is capable of being
concealed upon the person, designed to be used as a weapon,
capable of expelling a projectile by the force of any explosion
or other form of combustion, and has a barrel less than 16
inches in length.
(4) "Trigger lock." As used in this Section, a "trigger lock"
means a trigger lock that is listed in the California
Department of Justice's list of approved firearms safety
devices and that is identified as appropriate for that handgun
by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the
handgun or to the physical characteristics of the handgun that
match those listed on the roster for use with the device under
Penal Code Section 12088(d).
(c) Exceptions. This Section shall not apply in the following
circumstances:
(1) The handgun is carried on the person of an individual
over the age of 18.(2) The handgun is under the control of a person who is a
peace officer under Penal Code Section 830.
(d) Lost or Stolen Handguns. In order to encourage reports to law
enforcement agencies of lost or stolen handguns pursuant to San
Francisco Police Code Section 616, a person who files a report with a
law enforcement agency notifying the agency that a handgun has been
lost or stolen shall not be subject to prosecution for violation of
Section 4512(a) above.
(e) Penalty. Every violation of this Section shall constitute a
misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be punished by a fine not to
exceed $1,000.00 or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed
six months, or by both.
(f) Severability. If any provision, clause or word of this chapter
or the application thereof to any person or circumstance is held
invalid, such invalidity shall not affect any other provision,
clause, word or application of this Section which can be given effect
without the invalid provision, clause or word, and to this end the
provisions of this Section are declared to be severable.
(Added by Ord. 193-07, File No. 070683, App. 8/1/2007)

Lieutenant Mikail Ali
Senior Advisor for Public Safety
Mayor's Office of Criminal Justice
City Hall, Suite 496
1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Place
San Francisco, CA 94102
Mikail.Ali@sfgov.org
Direct (415) 554-5320
Fax (415) 554-6995



So,... if you live in SF you are 18+ and carry your handgun on your person you are exempt from keeping it unloaded and locked inside your own residence. Neverminding State preemption and the inability to enforce the ordinance.

Librarian
03-03-2008, 04:24 PM
"Just because you legally possess a gun in the sanctity of your locked home doesn't mean that we're not going to walk into that home and check to see if you're being responsible and safe in the way that you conduct your affairs," Harris said.SF DA Kamala Harris (http://cbs5.com/politics/san.francisco.gun.2.455726.html), May 16, 2007.

As has been widely noted, San Francisco and Ms. Harris seem to have forgotten the terms 'probable cause' and 'warrant'.

dasmi
03-03-2008, 04:27 PM
I can understand laws regarding "junk guns" like the .38 Special and such
Since when is ".38 Special" a gun? It's a cartridge, And even if it was a gun, what makes it junk? And what gives some fat disgusting waste of skin bureaucrat the right to tell me I can't own something?

dfletcher
03-03-2008, 04:45 PM
Impossible to enforce stupidity.

Any LE or Govt thug stupid enough to go knocking on a door asking if all their handguns were "properly" secured might have a very, very bad day. And anyone foolish enough to allow any LE or Govt thug inside their residence to check should learn better.

:mad:

Most unlikely of course. My concern is the poor guy that calls PD because of a minor problem - someone tossed a rock through his window & he wants a report taken for insurance - and PD enters the home & sees a rifle standing in a closet corner or a pistol tucked under some clothes. Yes, we can say "why'd you let that happen, dummy" but that's not the point. The law should be tossed just as the Berkley semi ban should be tossed.

1911_sfca
03-03-2008, 05:01 PM
When in the world are politicians going to realize the crimes involving firearms are usually committed by those who obtained the weapon illegally?

One would assume that a possible goal of this ordinance is to make it more difficult for burglars to obtain those firearms illegally.

Riodog
03-03-2008, 05:55 PM
Not to sidetrack this thread, but what is this crap??





almost forgot, Ms Harris, go screw yourself.
Rio

Patriot
03-03-2008, 05:58 PM
Not to sidetrack this thread, but what is this crap??





My guess is that it's the code you see when a character is improperly transliterated between fonts/formatting/etc.

sloguy
03-03-2008, 06:09 PM
Since when is ".38 Special" a gun? It's a cartridge, And even if it was a gun, what makes it junk? And what gives some fat disgusting waste of skin bureaucrat the right to tell me I can't own something?

i think he meant "saturday night special" not "38 special".

wolfmann
03-03-2008, 07:35 PM
Im just hoping that we will get a positive decision on Heller to put a leash on these people.
My GOD a statement of illegal search from the city DA?
Where did she get a degree from?
If this statement could be proved we could have fun with this.

edwardm
03-03-2008, 08:26 PM
I assume you use the word "goal" in a highly tongue-in-cheek manner.

Perhaps I should say "I hope..."

One would assume that a possible goal of this ordinance is to make it more difficult for burglars to obtain those firearms illegally.

ldivinag
03-03-2008, 08:35 PM
dont you people get it.

you're supposed to ask the bad guy to wait, while you load your LOCKED firearm before they can continue...

shees...


[/sarcasm]

Riodog
03-03-2008, 09:34 PM
My guess is that it's the code you see when a character is improperly transliterated between fonts/formatting/etc.

Thanks, I was just wondering.
Rio

FallingDown
03-03-2008, 10:31 PM
One would assume that a possible goal of this ordinance is to make it more difficult for burglars to obtain those firearms illegally.

The best way to make firearms difficult for burglars to obtain is to ban all firearms, if there's no guns, the burglars can't get them, right?

bg
03-04-2008, 01:34 AM
My eyes are so bad...Where's it stated in those laws above that
the weapon has to be unloaded ?

thegratenate
03-04-2008, 05:05 AM
There is also an exemption for the times that the weapon is on your person. If I'm not mistaken it does look like a law that does nothing more than attempt to lessen the number of stolen guns on the streets.

The way that it appears to me is that it is perfectly legal to have a loaded firearm on your person or otherwise directly under your control while you are inside of your home. If the firearm is not under your control, then it needs to be locked appropriately. The easiest way to accomplish that would be to have it in a safe, but trigger locks or disassembly is also available for those that do not own a safe.

It does look like feel good legislation to me, as it is probably not something that is realistically enforceable. But if people voluntarily comply, or if the mere passing of the law raises awareness, it has the potential to keep some guns out of the wrong hands, and there is nothing wrong with that.

mecam
03-04-2008, 06:00 AM
Does SF consider having a loaded magazine in the handgun, empty chamber a "loaded weapon"?

MEU(SOC)
03-04-2008, 10:18 AM
Since when is ".38 Special" a gun? It's a cartridge, And even if it was a gun, what makes it junk? And what gives some fat disgusting waste of skin bureaucrat the right to tell me I can't own something?

Snub nose "Saturday Night Special" revolver chambered in .38 Special. That's one of the "junk guns" used in many crimes over the decades. Cheap to buy, low quality metal...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_special

dasmi
03-04-2008, 10:22 AM
Yes, I know what a "Saturday Night Special" is. .38 special snubs can also be very high quality, very fine weapons. Think Colt Detective Special, Smith and Wesson J Frame, etc. My point, however, was that no one has the right to tell me I can't buy a cheap gun. What if that's all I can afford? Should someone be denied the means of self defense because a soulless bureaucrat says so?

M. Sage
03-04-2008, 05:49 PM
This ordinance is old news. It's also been thrown out twice now, and the city is appealing to the CA Supreme Court to have it reinstated. It's null and void at this time.

Snub nose "Saturday Night Special" revolver chambered in .38 Special. That's one of the "junk guns" used in many crimes over the decades. Cheap to buy, low quality metal...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_special

And affordable personal protection for those who don't lots of money. Also, the term "Saturday night special" has racist roots.

Bruce
03-04-2008, 10:31 PM
Snub nose "Saturday Night Special" revolver chambered in .38 Special. That's one of the "junk guns" used in many crimes over the decades. Cheap to buy, low quality metal...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_special


Most so called SNS's are .22LR or .25acp ala Raven Jennings et al. RG back in the day. I haven't seen one of those though in years. Remember a short barrel does not a "Saturday Night Special" make; and to Sarah Brady, Chucky Schumer, or Di Fi a Kimber Warrior is a "Saturday Night Special" :eek:

BTW Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source of reference.;)

MEU(SOC)
03-05-2008, 09:59 AM
BTW Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source of reference.;)

I'm aware of that. I simply posted that link to show some info on the history of the "Saturday Night Special" and "junk guns" without having to type an essay myself.

From what I remember when all the junk gun legislation was going on, the core issues had to do with cheap and dangerous pistols that could malfunction due to poor metallurgy. There were some social and economic issues that were married with the problem too. Add some politics to the mess...and it gets really ugly! I don't have any problems with the banning of junk guns due to poor metallurgy, as long as they have some lab standard for testing pistols to support the position.

It's not my desire to even comment on the whole social and economic situation regarding the so called junk guns. I'll that one to Berkeley students and the like.

dixieD
03-05-2008, 10:32 AM
Impossible to enforce stupidity.

Any LE or Govt thug stupid enough to go knocking on a door asking if all their handguns were "properly" secured might have a very, very bad day. And anyone foolish enough to allow any LE or Govt thug inside their residence to check should learn better.

:mad:

The DA is already quoted saying she wants to do this. I'll bet they'll just go with no-knock warrants to ensure compliance.;)

dixieD
03-05-2008, 10:36 AM
SF DA Kamala Harris (http://cbs5.com/politics/san.francisco.gun.2.455726.html), May 16, 2007.

As has been widely noted, San Francisco and Ms. Harris seem to have forgotten the terms 'probable cause' and 'warrant'.

Also note that Harris has been campaigning for Obama the Awsome. If he gets elected I wonder what her chance is of getting a post in the administration possibly as Attorney General. That would make Ruby Ridge and Waco seem like childs play.....

gunn
03-05-2008, 02:38 PM
dont you people get it.

you're supposed to ask the bad guy to wait, while you load your LOCKED firearm before they can continue...

shees...


[/sarcasm]



Just to I understand things properly, this only applies to handguns and not rifles or shotguns, right?

CitaDeL
03-05-2008, 04:29 PM
Just to I understand things properly, this only applies to handguns and not rifles or shotguns, right?

If you believe this ordinance applies to anything at all, Id suppose so.

bunni
03-05-2008, 07:14 PM
I can understand laws regarding "junk guns" like the .38 Special and such...

And here is the problem with firearms activists - Fudd doesn't care about legislation regarding "assault weapons" and Mr. Rifleman thinks wheel guns are junk and has no issue with laws regulating them.

:rolleyes:

M. Sage
03-05-2008, 07:42 PM
I'm aware of that. I simply posted that link to show some info on the history of the "Saturday Night Special" and "junk guns" without having to type an essay myself.

From what I remember when all the junk gun legislation was going on, the core issues had to do with cheap and dangerous pistols that could malfunction due to poor metallurgy. There were some social and economic issues that were married with the problem too. Add some politics to the mess...and it gets really ugly! I don't have any problems with the banning of junk guns due to poor metallurgy, as long as they have some lab standard for testing pistols to support the position.

It's not my desire to even comment on the whole social and economic situation regarding the so called junk guns. I'll that one to Berkeley students and the like.

For questionable materials and poor craftsmanship, look no farther than a Soviet 91/30 built in 1942. Oh, wait... I have one of those. :eek:

"Junk gun" is just another term for a cheap gun. Yep, they can be pretty crappy. But there isn't any reason to ban them with legislation, since personal injury lawsuits will do the job much more certainly.

yellowfin
03-05-2008, 11:19 PM
Impossible to enforce stupidity.

Any LE or Govt thug stupid enough to go knocking on a door asking if all their handguns were "properly" secured might have a very, very bad day. And anyone foolish enough to allow any LE or Govt thug inside their residence to check should learn better.

:mad: And any of the inclination to do so should be removed from their job before given the opportunity.