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shda5582
02-21-2014, 1:45 PM
Reference thread, posing this thread since that one is locked: http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=13491198
-----------
So, I would like to address/say a few things, since unfortunately your thread is locked to responses. *cracks knuckles*

First, I call total bs that anything was "taken out of context".

Unless you count this (http://www.ibtimes.com/armatix-ip1-first-smart-gun-sold-usa-video-1557231) and that (http://voiceofrussia.com/us/2014_02_21/New-smart-gun-takes-aim-at-gun-control-8719/) and maybe Salon's (http://www.salon.com/2014/02/19/the_era_of_smart_guns_may_soon_be_upon_us/) articles to be taking you "out of context"? Wait, I guess that (http://www.pressherald.com/news/Smart_gun_is_a_new_leader_in_high-tech_arms_race_.html) must have been out of context too?

I am calling you out on this. Flat out, you guys WERE planning on selling this hideous piece of gun-control in a physical form from the very start. From when you were having Armatix test it on your ranges, you were planning on selling this (and I might add that Oak Tree never responded to concerns raised in this forum regarding this). You are listed as the only company in every single news article in California as selling this. You guys have only backpedaled due to the overwhelming public outcry from pro-2a people that weren't going to permit you guys to get away with being Sacramento's testing ground for this. That you have gone so far as to blatantly lie to the very people that keep you guys in business is a total disgrace; that you sold out to the politicians trying to strip our rights from us is the only worse offense I can think of.

Second, to start addressing your points:


You didn't sell any because of the insane price of it, also due to the concerns about the tech being flawed, no one was about to buy it.
You lie on your assertion that you weren't ever going to sell any. There's marketing stuff plastered all over your range on the entryway. Or was that "out of context" as well?
I haven't (yet) dug into this bit about you not being an authorized dealer, but the circumstantial is pretty bad anyways. But since you can't convict on circumstantial, trust me, I WILL be looking into this. edit: oops, guess I did find that info, and it didn't take very long at all: Only listed Armatix dealer in California, and it's YOUR address. (http://firearm-dealers.findthebest.com/l/132091/Armatix-Usa-Inc)
edit: Continued from above....in case you want to attack the source of that as not being reliable, how about from the ATF themselves (https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/)? Just enter in the boxes in the following order: 9, 95, 01414. Comes up to your address in their (Armatrix's) name.

There's the evidence, and your conviction as being against pro-2a people in this state. Oh, I almost forgot, you didn't just try to screw us over, you did this.....

Third, you do realize that with your press release, of which I totally doubt that your owner would have told them that he was selling said pistol when he really wasn't....you do know that you have now f*cked over all of New Jersey, correct? In 3 years, no one there will be able to purchase a handgun unless it comes equipped with this "faulty" smart tech? Congratulations for your actions and greed totally screwing over an entire state.

Fourth, you people have made me ashamed to say that I once enjoyed shooting there. Hell, I even purchased a pistol from you guys almost a year ago, and it makes me sick to say that. I feel sick that money that I gave you wound up support this assault on our rights, and that you were content to let it happen. If it wasn't far past the statue of limitations I would have done a chargeback on my card to ensure you didn't see a dime of my money going to help you do this.

End point: you have been planning on this all along, and you have only put this statement up on this forum to address the naysayers here, and ONLY that. You are trying to do damage control only here, but that will not be enough to help you. When you issue a press release that states all of what you just did, publicly disavow that you had intended to sell this pistol, AND you remove from your FFL license the ability to sell this pistol, it will not overnight fix this PR disaster, but it will go a long way to restoring your credibility to those of us that believe in our rights and will not stand for any company trying to assist in taking them away. To say nothing of those of us that keep you in business, although that should be a given.

Failure to issue said press release will result in an escalation of PR against you, and that's a fight that despite all your firearms and ammo, you are ill-equipped to fight. I have a bunch of pissed-off gun owners at my back; I'm also a geek, which means I know how to use social media to spread the word against you. Issue the press release publicly decrying this gun and the tech, revoke the FFL licensee, apologize to gun owners both here and in New Jersey, and you might get out of this with your business intact. If not....*shrug*

philobeddoe
02-21-2014, 2:07 PM
Thank you.

shda5582
02-21-2014, 2:14 PM
For?

philobeddoe
02-21-2014, 2:22 PM
The time and effort for drafting that response, laying out the facts/argument, links, etc.

shda5582
02-21-2014, 2:23 PM
No problem. Quite easy for me, my line of work has taught me how to find stuff very quickly and I happen to type pretty damn quick :)

vintagearms
02-21-2014, 3:05 PM
Btt

CSACANNONEER
02-21-2014, 3:17 PM
They will delete this thread as soon as they read it. But, I'll just leave this here in case they want to explain

Well this is interesting. A little googling and found Armatix USA located at the same address as Oaktree Gun Club as a type 08FFL (importer license).


http://firearm-dealers.findthebest.com/l/132091/Armatix-Usa-Inc

A search on ATF for that license corroborates that Armatix USA is at the Oaktree address

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/FOIA/FFLs/2014/January/TXT/0114-ffl-list-california.txt

What say you now Oaktree?

It appears that Oaktree IS Armatix-USA!!!!!!!!

ChrisBrooklyn
02-21-2014, 3:26 PM
Scum of the earth.

shda5582
02-21-2014, 3:28 PM
They will delete this thread as soon as they read it. But, I'll just leave this here in case they want to explain



It appears that Oaktree IS Armatix-USA!!!!!!!!

They can try. I have my entire post saved intact to easily facilitate copy/paste to another forum where they can't erase it.

I will copy your links, add them to my saved post, and give appropriate credit.

Maltese Falcon
02-21-2014, 3:31 PM
Spread far and wide..

.

Moto
02-21-2014, 3:37 PM
What a shame.

philobeddoe
02-21-2014, 3:45 PM
8Sp-VFBbjpE

Kodemonkey
02-21-2014, 7:15 PM
I am not sure that Oaktree can revoke the 08FFL even if they wanted to. The law office that filed the corporation paperwork (Armatix USA is a Delaware corp and listed out of Beverly Hills) probably has control over it. Oaktree had to have given permission, of course, and I am sure there was a deal brokered between the two entities. I am certain money changed hands. I can imagine, and this is pure speculation, that a foreign company would need help in understanding the ins and outs of selling a gun here and there was some consultation done by Oaktree for a price. Perhaps Oaktree was going to get in the arms importation business with them.

We will probably never know the full truth, but it is undeniable that these two are bedfellows and that unwinding this deal is really Oaktree's only option. 2A advocates are swift and unyielding. This will be a very difficult road ahead of them.

It's too bad, I've given them thousands of dollars. I've brought them a ton of business from fellow shooters. I am known by name in there, and was even asked to give feedback on their "fun shoots" they started to implement. All I can say is that I am sorely disappointed. I come in contact with a lot of the shooting community and this will be topic of conversation for a long while.

AUstate
02-21-2014, 10:50 PM
They were part of this from the beginning, this was brought up when people saw they were allowing private testing of the Safe Gun.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=809987

And then brought up again here, but sadly Oaktree management still went along with it.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=857969

How and why a gun range would do this is honestly beyond me. Especially after hearing and reading what people's thoughts on the subject were. But it was all ignored.

Dirte
02-22-2014, 12:54 AM
Excellent work. Thank you.

Reference thread, posing this thread since that one is locked: http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=13491198
-----------
So, I would like to address/say a few things, since unfortunately your thread is locked to responses. *cracks knuckles*

First, I call total bs that anything was "taken out of context".

Unless you count this (http://www.ibtimes.com/armatix-ip1-first-smart-gun-sold-usa-video-1557231) and that (http://voiceofrussia.com/us/2014_02_21/New-smart-gun-takes-aim-at-gun-control-8719/) and maybe Salon's (http://www.salon.com/2014/02/19/the_era_of_smart_guns_may_soon_be_upon_us/) articles to be taking you "out of context"? Wait, I guess that (http://www.pressherald.com/news/Smart_gun_is_a_new_leader_in_high-tech_arms_race_.html) must have been out of context too?

I am calling you out on this. Flat out, you guys WERE planning on selling this hideous piece of gun-control in a physical form from the very start. From when you were having Armatix test it on your ranges, you were planning on selling this (and I might add that Oak Tree never responded to concerns raised in this forum regarding this). You are listed as the only company in every single news article in California as selling this. You guys have only backpedaled due to the overwhelming public outcry from pro-2a people that weren't going to permit you guys to get away with being Sacramento's testing ground for this. That you have gone so far as to blatantly lie to the very people that keep you guys in business is a total disgrace; that you sold out to the politicians trying to strip our rights from us is the only worse offense I can think of.

Second, to start addressing your points:


You didn't sell any because of the insane price of it, also due to the concerns about the tech being flawed, no one was about to buy it.
You lie on your assertion that you weren't ever going to sell any. There's marketing stuff plastered all over your range on the entryway. Or was that "out of context" as well?
I haven't (yet) dug into this bit about you not being an authorized dealer, but the circumstantial is pretty bad anyways. But since you can't convict on circumstantial, trust me, I WILL be looking into this. edit: oops, guess I did find that info, and it didn't take very long at all: Only listed Armatix dealer in California, and it's YOUR address. (http://firearm-dealers.findthebest.com/l/132091/Armatix-Usa-Inc)
edit: Continued from above....in case you want to attack the source of that as not being reliable, how about from the ATF themselves (https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/)? Just enter in the boxes in the following order: 9, 95, 01414. Comes up to your address in their (Armatrix's) name.

There's the evidence, and your conviction as being against pro-2a people in this state. Oh, I almost forgot, you didn't just try to screw us over, you did this.....

Third, you do realize that with your press release, of which I totally doubt that your owner would have told them that he was selling said pistol when he really wasn't....you do know that you have now f*cked over all of New Jersey, correct? In 3 years, no one there will be able to purchase a handgun unless it comes equipped with this "faulty" smart tech? Congratulations for your actions and greed totally screwing over an entire state.

Fourth, you people have made me ashamed to say that I once enjoyed shooting there. Hell, I even purchased a pistol from you guys almost a year ago, and it makes me sick to say that. I feel sick that money that I gave you wound up support this assault on our rights, and that you were content to let it happen. If it wasn't far past the statue of limitations I would have done a chargeback on my card to ensure you didn't see a dime of my money going to help you do this.

End point: you have been planning on this all along, and you have only put this statement up on this forum to address the naysayers here, and ONLY that. You are trying to do damage control only here, but that will not be enough to help you. When you issue a press release that states all of what you just did, publicly disavow that you had intended to sell this pistol, AND you remove from your FFL license the ability to sell this pistol, it will not overnight fix this PR disaster, but it will go a long way to restoring your credibility to those of us that believe in our rights and will not stand for any company trying to assist in taking them away. To say nothing of those of us that keep you in business, although that should be a given.

Failure to issue said press release will result in an escalation of PR against you, and that's a fight that despite all your firearms and ammo, you are ill-equipped to fight. I have a bunch of pissed-off gun owners at my back; I'm also a geek, which means I know how to use social media to spread the word against you. Issue the press release publicly decrying this gun and the tech, revoke the FFL licensee, apologize to gun owners both here and in New Jersey, and you might get out of this with your business intact. If not....*shrug*

xMAC1x
02-22-2014, 1:42 PM
Very well done op.

BCA142
02-22-2014, 4:24 PM
Maybe calgunners should show up at Oak Tree and display their displeasure and also educate others who do not know what has happened. A good start.

ZirconJohn
02-22-2014, 4:44 PM
Armatix iP1 Is The First 'Smart Gun' Sold In USA
International Business Times
By Vincent Balestriere
on February 21 2014 3:22 PM

Following text FROM (above link in OP) http://www.ibtimes.com/armatix-ip1-first-smart-gun-sold-usa-video-1557231
That price point will no doubt turn some would-be buyers away from the iP1. And yet, James Mitchell, owner of the Oak Tree Gun Club, the only dealer currently selling the iP1, believes the pistol could “revolutionize the gun industry.”

Thank you for posting this... I am going to tell EVERYONE... every firearm enthusiast, hunter, collector... friends, family... tell them ALL what this traitor of the firearms community did against 2A Rights...!

Thank you Mr. shda5582 for posting this.

Now I am going to research who these people are, where the Gun Range is and warn everybody to STAY AWAY...!!!

Maltese Falcon
02-22-2014, 11:12 PM
Such a shame for a nice facility...

.

shovelon
02-23-2014, 6:46 AM
Nice work.

Guess I won't be satisfied until the banners come down and James Mitchell himself issues a statement.
Until then I will just burn out my membership.

Steve1968LS2
02-23-2014, 7:01 AM
Just more of the "skeet gun" sellouts that don't give a crap about the other gun owners out there.. so long as thiers if left alone.

Maybe the Brady group will send them an MVP award?

PowderBurner823
02-23-2014, 8:20 AM
Everyone has their own point, some agreeable and some not. I'm sure that this is not the first range to do something that the "gun community" has not agreed with...

So I guess we boycott all ranges that we don't agree with and close them down. Then where will we be?? Where will we shoot??

We can fight the politicians, we need more than words on a forum. A lot of people hide behind their "handle" on a forum with a lot of bantering.

It's not like Oak Tree is getting rid of all their guns and only selling the "Smart Gun".

6114DAVE
02-23-2014, 8:35 AM
Everyone has their own point, some agreeable and some not. I'm sure that this is not the first range to do something that the "gun community" has not agreed with...

So I guess we boycott all ranges that we don't agree with and close them down. Then where will we be?? Where will we shoot??

We can fight the politicians, we need more than words on a forum. A lot of people hide behind their "handle" on a forum with a lot of bantering.

It's not like Oak Tree is getting rid of all their guns and only selling the "Smart Gun".
It's a little more than just doing something we " don't agree with" they singlehandedly brought about a handgun ban in New Jersey that was dormant into action ...sure no big deal ..:facepalm: oak tree isn't getting rid of all their guns and only selling smart guns...New Jersey FFLs are

madjack956
02-23-2014, 8:53 AM
Everyone has their own point, some agreeable and some not. I'm sure that this is not the first range to do something that the "gun community" has not agreed with...

So I guess we boycott all ranges that we don't agree with and close them down. Then where will we be?? Where will we shoot??

We can fight the politicians, we need more than words on a forum. A lot of people hide behind their "handle" on a forum with a lot of bantering.

It's not like Oak Tree is getting rid of all their guns and only selling the "Smart Gun".

Some people just don't get it... Oak Tree opened a can of worms.

As far as some people hiding behind their "handle", my name is jack. Is your name powder or burner?

SkyHawk
02-23-2014, 9:27 AM
Everyone has their own point, some agreeable and some not. I'm sure that this is not the first range to do something that the "gun community" has not agreed with...

So I guess we boycott all ranges that we don't agree with and close them down. Then where will we be?? Where will we shoot??

We can fight the politicians, we need more than words on a forum. A lot of people hide behind their "handle" on a forum with a lot of bantering.

It's not like Oak Tree is getting rid of all their guns and only selling the "Smart Gun".

By repeatedly posting this in every thread concerning this subject, you have made it apparent that: A) you do not comprehend the gravity of their actions, or B) you are a shill for Oak Tree.

Let me answer your oft asked question though: If we shut down this gun range, we will shoot at gun ranges who do not lie in bed with the anti-gun movement. Simple. There are and will be plenty of them. If this range goes under, another REAL 2A supporting range will replace it. Get over it. These people suck, they have betrayed us in the worst way. They deserve to go out of business and I will do everything I can to further that outcome.

SWalt
02-23-2014, 10:08 AM
They couldn't think their way out of a paper bag.


What happens when the fancy decoder ring/watch fails in 10 yrs?
What happens when the fancy decoder ring/watch is lost?
What happens when the chips/electronics fails in 15 yrs?
What happens when the "tech" is out dated in 30 yrs?
What happens when manufacturer doesn't support that "old tech"?
How much will it cost for repairs when these "high tech" abortions go bad.
How long will it take to get back your highly expensive high tech abortion from repair when you can only afford 1 highly expensive high tech abortion.


I could go on and on.

My 1903 Springfield works just fine and will continue to do so. "High tech" isn't an answer to anything, it becomes obsolete. All these a**hats did is give government planned obsolescence.

shark92651
02-23-2014, 11:55 AM
Everyone has their own point, some agreeable and some not. I'm sure that this is not the first range to do something that the "gun community" has not agreed with...

So I guess we boycott all ranges that we don't agree with and close them down. Then where will we be?? Where will we shoot??

We can fight the politicians, we need more than words on a forum. A lot of people hide behind their "handle" on a forum with a lot of bantering.

It's not like Oak Tree is getting rid of all their guns and only selling the "Smart Gun".

Smart gun technology could set New Jersey law into motion

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/23/us/new-jersey-smart-gun-law/

Under the law, Hoffman must determine whether the smart guns meet industry standards and are available for retail sale. The law says "personalized handguns shall be deemed to be available for retail sales purposes if at least one manufacturer has delivered at least one model of a personalized handgun to a registered or licensed wholesale or retail dealer in New Jersey or any other state."

The New Jersey State Police then will issue a list of firearms that meet the technological standard. Within three years of the guns hitting the market, they will be the only kinds of firearms sold in New Jersey.

California tried to pass a similar law last year. You think they won't keep trying?

funnybookz
02-23-2014, 8:30 PM
How could they sell it if it isn't on the roster? Sure they could sell it to LEOs and those who are exempt, but what about microstamping? Is it available for SSE? I haven't seen anything that suggests that it is.

slick_rick
02-23-2014, 8:54 PM
How could they sell it if it isn't on the roster? Sure they could sell it to LEOs and those who are exempt, but what about microstamping? Is it available for SSE? I haven't seen anything that suggests that it is.

It's on the roster

ngeurds
02-23-2014, 10:40 PM
I am no wizard when it comes to computers and the internet, but can we please get some type of website going to counter this bull crap? This is the kind of stuff that misinforms the general public and those who have not made up their minds on guns. We need too counter the liberals at every point possible. They are letting in illegals to out number us as they know they can get them on their side by offering them the benefits that you and I enjoy. They are tactfully using them against us (by offering them citizenship, cell phones, well fare...you name it) to push their agenda. We need to come together to counter this by putting out real statistics that display how unreliable this technology is. I don't even know where to start, because these firearms are new. I do know that we need to confront this crap though!

Here is the site: http://smartgunlaws.org/

Lets fight this because like Obamacare the liberals are likely to shove this down our throats if the opportunity arises.

ngeurds
02-23-2014, 10:43 PM
This may be able to help get started.

http://bearingarms.com/new-jersey-assemblyman-rips-smart-gun-that-fails-every-single-magazine/

SimonBirch
02-23-2014, 11:27 PM
Doesn't surprise me about oaktree. I feel like ace ventura whn he found out einhorn was finkle lol. Btw I went to their range with hi cap mags (pre ban). RSO told me I couldn't have those. Told him they were pre ban. He said "I don't care, if u don't like it u can get the f$%& out"

Funny ive been looking for a place to open a gun range. Maybe when they shut down I'll get a good deal on the their land. Suck it easy oak tree

Dantedamean
02-24-2014, 1:33 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if the user ID requirement goes into effect next year thanks to these guys.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

LeftCoast Grower
02-24-2014, 2:14 AM
Oak Tree shot themselves in the foot, but think it's ok because they still have another foot left.

Kodemonkey
02-24-2014, 10:17 AM
Let me answer your oft asked question though: If we shut down this gun range, we will shoot at gun ranges who do not lie in bed with the anti-gun movement. Simple. There are and will be plenty of them. If this range goes under, another REAL 2A supporting range will replace it. Get over it. These people suck, they have betrayed us in the worst way. They deserve to go out of business and I will do everything I can to further that outcome.

This range wont be closed down. First off, the property can probably never be used for anything but a gun range. I was told that when Booge Mercer Died and left the proprerty to the American Diabetes Association, that the ADA had difficulty selling it because it couldn't be anything but a gun range. That's when Jim Mitchell bought it. He's owned it since 2000.

I can see 2 different outcomes if a boycott actually worked (and I'm not saying it would):

1) They would drop the pistol shop and be clays only. The ATA shooters tend to not give a crap about the pistol shooters and probably would applaud the disappearance of the pistol range.

2) Mitchell loses so much money he has to sell it. That would take a long time and it would almost certainly stay a range. The community around it in Santa Clarita is moderate conservative and you don't hear bad press in the local papers about the range. The people here are indifferent to its existence, so I would say it wouldn't have to fight city hall if it changed ownership.

Not to throw water on a fire, I am just trying to be realistic.

Kodemonkey
02-24-2014, 10:23 AM
Here is another point I want to make about the gun itself. Why on earth did they build their first gun as a 22?

-It's not a self defense pistol
-22LR is difficult to make it reliably feed

If I were marketing a gun I would be chambering it in 9mm. It is abundant, it feeds reliably, and it is an actual self defense round. It makes me think that the electronics cannot handle the recoil from a centerfire round.

Moto
02-24-2014, 12:32 PM
Here is another point I want to make about the gun itself. Why on earth did they build their first gun as a 22?

-It's not a self defense pistol
-22LR is difficult to make it reliably feed

If I were marketing a gun I would be chambering it in 9mm. It is abundant, it feeds reliably, and it is an actual self defense round. It makes me think that the electronics cannot handle the recoil from a centerfire round.

Probably because its made by a repressive company that does not want the general
Public to have formidable Caliber weapons. I'm sure they have no intentions on building of of those piece of garbages in anything but 22.

SoCalGunny
02-24-2014, 1:19 PM
Here is another point I want to make about the gun itself. Why on earth did they build their first gun as a 22?

-It's not a self defense pistol
-22LR is difficult to make it reliably feed

If I were marketing a gun I would be cambering it in 9mm. It is abundant, it feeds reliably, and it is an actual self defense round. It makes me think that the electronics cannot handle the recoil from a center fire round.

I have a thought. I think their electronics can't handle continuous recoil from a real caliber and thats why why stuck with .22lr

Beroen
02-24-2014, 9:40 PM
I have a thought. I think their electronics can't handle continuous recoil from a real caliber and thats why why stuck with .22lr

Unfortunately poted modern electronics are verry resistant to extreme vibration and harmonics : -(

george tirebiter
02-24-2014, 10:08 PM
If you have a Yelp account go and post a negative review. I've had my issues with them on the rifle range that I've posted about before and I have as a result dropped my membership with them. They can pound sand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AntiScreed
02-25-2014, 10:17 AM
KNOCK OFF THE LIES! Oaktree has never sold armatix stuff or will. I've never heard a bigger bunch of friggin women cackling in my life here. Oaktree is the strongest 2A advocates there is you morons.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

shda5582
02-25-2014, 10:32 AM
KNOCK OFF THE LIES! Oaktree has never sold armatix stuff or will. I've never heard a bigger bunch of friggin women cackling in my life here. Oaktree is the strongest 2A advocates there is you morons.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

Usually don't respond to trolls...but anti-whatever-your-name is, did you even look at the information I put up in the OP, or are you just knee-jerking with your post? I invite you to reread my OP, look at the evidence that the ONLY address listing for Armatix's FFL is, indeed, Oak Tree's address. That, plus multiple sourced news articles that stated that Oak Tree was selling the pistol, are pretty hard to refute as solid evidence that they had the intention to sell it.

AntiScreed
02-25-2014, 10:44 AM
So now you are believing the media huh?

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shda5582
02-25-2014, 10:49 AM
So now you are believing the media huh?

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

No.

I am believing the information from the ATF themselves that show that the only address on Armatix's FFL is at Oak Tree's address. Not to mention, they interviewed the owner of Oak Tree, and if they weren't selling it, I highly doubt that he would have gone on record as stating that they are. IF it's false, why haven't they issued a press release stating that they were misquoted?

I know you don't believe me. Please go to my OP, see the link that I put up, and then if you don't believe THAT, then check the next line under that that gives instructions as to how you can look it up on the ATF's own website.

AntiScreed
02-25-2014, 10:53 AM
You have no proof AND you have fallen for and continue to keep going... the media lie they intended all along.

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shda5582
02-25-2014, 10:57 AM
You have no proof AND you have fallen for and continue to keep going... the media lie they intended all along.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

Look in the OP. The proof is posted there, and it's NOT from the media. It's from Armatix's own FFL license.

defcon
02-25-2014, 10:59 AM
dont worry i have an EMP wrist band to disable the guns :43:

AntiScreed
02-25-2014, 10:59 AM
Gawd! You are dense. I'VE READ EVERYTHING DUDE! And that piece of information means NOTHING!

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AntiScreed
02-25-2014, 11:00 AM
And yes it was the media lie that YOU are conforming to. Good grief

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Beroen
02-25-2014, 11:28 AM
It's a conspiracy 😱


Even if they let them test this abortion of a fire arm there that in its own right is enough of A Anti 2A choice to warrant a complete boycott of this range....



I took screen shots of it just in case the "media conspiracy" disappears

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/26/ezapyvan.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/26/abusaqap.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/26/pe4ymutu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/26/eme4evur.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/26/guhavepa.jpg

cwilliams
02-25-2014, 12:07 PM
You have no proof AND you have fallen for and continue to keep going... the media lie they intended all along.

The only proof I personally need that Oak Tree and Armatix had some sort of partnership is my own two eyes. I had visited the range many times in the past 6 months and saw the signs and building. Whether they sold the gun or not is not my personal topic of debate. They are 100% guilty by association for allowing them the use of the range and address. I, and many others, have a MAJOR problem with that.

shovelon
02-25-2014, 12:30 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/26/pe4ymutu.jpg

Found this. It show the Beverly Hills mailing address with the name Belinda Padilla as owner of the phone # , the president of Armatix US. The Beverly hills phone # is at this address.

So Armatix US is headquartered in Beverly Hills, and Oak tree is the staging location?

http://www.privacystar.com/lookup/310-498-3043

SAP_Pete
02-25-2014, 5:26 PM
Armatix has a long history of trying to use politics and gun control to create a market for their overpriced, idiotic designs. Obviously, there is no demand for a .22 pistol / watch combination for 2 grand that might or might not work when you need it (self defense).
In Germany they tried to get state and federal laws passed to create a market for their crap, same in Switzerland (see Armatix / Segmüller). The partnership with HK went to hell in a hand basket, and Anschuetz is feeling the heat as well.
I don't see how anybody purporting to be pro gun ownership can support Armatix in any way.

pitbull30
02-25-2014, 5:37 PM
Thats a shame. I liked a burger after clays.

If you do some google searches international articles come up in other languages. Translate them into English and guess who shows up. :toetap05:

dragonboy221
02-25-2014, 10:53 PM
I lol at the idiots who go to oak tree.. Why pay $20 to shoot at ONE range (meaning each range cost $20), when you can go to aplacetoshoot for $12..........

Not only they are cheaper, they have a better range and it's newer. Oaktree's owner is a cheap piece of sh*t who won't update their range with new equipment , even though they are making so much money. Have you ever shot at the steel pistol range?? Everything is falling apart.....

I hope u read this Mitchell, you cheap bastard.

rm1911
02-26-2014, 5:59 AM
I lol at the idiots who go to oak tree.. Why pay $20 to shoot at ONE range (meaning each range cost $20), when you can go to aplacetoshoot for $12..........



Not only they are cheaper, they have a better range and it's newer. Oaktree's owner is a cheap piece of sh*t who won't update their range with new equipment , even though they are making so much money. Have you ever shot at the steel pistol range?? Everything is falling apart.....



I hope u read this Mitchell, you cheap bastard.


I agree. APTS is overall a nicer range. However for me it's pretty simple. Oak tree is open until 10 a few nights per week. It's the only times me and my kids can shoot.

And damn, all that steel!!!

But the rifle range kinda blows.

Bushwack44
02-26-2014, 6:48 PM
I don't mean to step in anyone's poo, but I know very little about Armatix. As I understand, it's a company that produces a firearm that requires a watch (or other nearby electrical device) to function.

For someone who has yet formed an opinion (and is asking to be educated), can someone offer a little more as to why this is a bad thing? If there is a link available, please post it. Google doesn't provide much information.

FWIW, I've gone to Oaktree almost weekly for the past 30 months. It has been my experience that people who have issues with ROs walked into the range with a chip on their shoulders (I've seen it 4-5 times). I've never seen an RO be nothing but respectful and go above and beyond with help or advice to new and seasoned clientele.

And yes, there are a couple Armatix banners on display at the range (at least there was as of last Sunday).

pitbull30
02-26-2014, 8:14 PM
I don't mean to step in anyone's poo, but I know very little about Armatix. As I understand, it's a company that produces a firearm that requires a watch (or other nearby electrical device) to function.

For someone who has yet formed an opinion (and is asking to be educated), can someone offer a little more as to why this is a bad thing? If there is a link available, please post it. Google doesn't provide much information.

FWIW, I've gone to Oaktree almost weekly for the past 30 months. It has been my experience that people who have issues with ROs walked into the range with a chip on their shoulders (I've seen it 4-5 times). I've never seen an RO be nothing but respectful and go above and beyond with help or advice to new and seasoned clientele.

And yes, there are a couple Armatix banners on display at the range (at least there was as of last Sunday).

The short answer is its paving the way for all guns to have this silly unreliable tech. The long version will be coming by many others.

Bushwack44
02-27-2014, 8:03 AM
The short answer is its paving the way for all guns to have this silly unreliable tech. The long version will be coming by many others.

I appreciate the passion some have regarding this issue but this could be years and years away. Meanwhile, knuckleheads in the state capitol have found a back door preventing firearms from selling in the state today. Micro-stamping.

B-Bye to Ruger and b-bye to S&W. This is happening now. If some want to boycott private enterprise due to testing technology that may never become economically feasible, so be it. Heck, if that's what Oaktree participated in, so be it. If not them, it would be another range. As a businessman and firearm enthusiast, I don't see anything unethical or immoral about it. The much bigger concern is the back door state capital knuckleheads have found that now discourage firearm manufacturers from doing business in California.

Anyway, don't mean to hijack the thread. Need to find relevant info on Armatrix to solidify a stance. For now, I don't fault Oaktree if they participated in testing the technology.

Kodemonkey
02-27-2014, 8:41 AM
The short answer is its paving the way for all guns to have this silly unreliable tech. The long version will be coming by many others.


That's pretty much it. The longer version is:

California doesn't want you to have guns. Have a seat, here is a brief history of the CA DOJ Circus of Firearm Ownership Encumbrance™ :

So first, they made you take a written test. You only had to do it once in your lifetime.

Then that wasn't good enough. So they re-named it the HSC and made you take it every 5 years

But wait, we should make sure your guns are "not unsafe". So we need all manufacturers to submit to a drop test and a fee (of course) and we shall call it the Roster of Hanguns Certified for sale. And it would be required for all new handgun sales in CA.

But that wasn't good enough. There was a need to make sure that the gun couldn't be fired without a magazine, because if a cop ever got into a struggle with his own gun and a bad guy he could simply drop the magazine and the gun would be useless. But first we need to make sure we exempt all the cops, because they don't want this tech. But lets require it for the rest of the citizens.

Hey! I've got another great idea. Let's make it so that anyone who doesn't know anything about guns to understand that a gun is loaded without even having to touch it. The loaded chamber indicator was born, and it is now required for all new pistols to be allowed on the roster.

Damn, there are too many people STILL buying guns! Remember that law we passed a decade ago stating if microstamping ever became a viable technology that we can add it to the requirements of the "not unsafe" roster of guns that can be sold? Well, I think it's time to say it's viable - even though we aren't engineers or gun manufacturers.

Now, no new guns can make it on the list.

But, that pesky roster has so many guns still on it. What can we do? Ah, we can just say any "substantive change" to a pistol will require it to be certified and it will need a loaded chamber indicator, magazine safety disconnect, and microstamping! This is brilliant. We will define "substantive change" to mean; "moving a production location, a change in metallurgy, a change in molding process."

Now we can whittle that pesky roster down to nothing in only a few years!! Yay, high fives all around!

What's that you say? A new James Bond tech that requires the user to wear a special watch to fire it? Ohhhh, I think that's a great idea! Oh, and it's headquartered right here in Los Angeles! Wow, sharpen the pencils guys - we've got more work to do....

Kodemonkey
02-27-2014, 8:46 AM
I appreciate the passion some have regarding this issue but this could be years and years away. Meanwhile, knuckleheads in the state capitol have found a back door preventing firearms from selling in the state today. Micro-stamping.

B-Bye to Ruger and b-bye to S&W. This is happening now. If some want to boycott private enterprise due to testing technology that may never become economically feasible, so be it. Heck, if that's what Oaktree participated in, so be it. If not them, it would be another range. As a businessman and firearm enthusiast, I don't see anything unethical or immoral about it. The much bigger concern is the back door state capital knuckleheads have found that now discourage firearm manufacturers from doing business in California.

Anyway, don't mean to hijack the thread. Need to find relevant info on Armatrix to solidify a stance. For now, I don't fault Oaktree if they participated in testing the technology.

It's not years away. It's already law in New Jersey. After the first gun is sold, 3 years later all guns are required to have this tech to be sold in that state.

CA tried to pass a similar law last year. It failed. This may be the push that makes it pass this year.

Microstamping is already being sued. You don't think they want to have a plan B? Count on it.

Bushwack44
02-27-2014, 9:19 AM
Cool - appreciate the additional info. But in an era of free enterprise (or at least capitalism), not sure what good dissing on Oaktree will do when so many other ranges would have stepped in (assuming Oaktree allowed for testing - I'm reading conflicting information).

Take that passion..err..anger and apply it to the knuckleheads in the state capitol; whether with your wallet, by protest to those that make decisions, your vote or all three.

Footnote: As a society, for decades we took it for granted that when we wrote a check at a retailer, providing a 2nd form of ID was muscle memory - you just did it. In reality, the retailer is telling saying YOU ARE A THIEF and we don't trust YOU that your check won't bounce.

That's how laws are enacted. The good people are assumed guilty while in daily life, the bad people could care less. This needs to change.

Kodemonkey
02-27-2014, 9:34 AM
Cool - appreciate the additional info. But in an era of free enterprise (or at least capitalism), not sure what good dissing on Oaktree will do when so many other ranges would have stepped in (assuming Oaktree allowed for testing - I'm reading conflicting information).

Take that passion..err..anger and apply it to the knuckleheads in the state capitol; whether with your wallet, by protest to those that make decisions, your vote or all three.


While I agree with you, I think most of the people here write letters and send money. The problem is that we are a minority. Most of this stuff has to be fought at the civil rights level in court.

I can't speak for the rest of the people here, but I was a big fan of Oaktree. I was a member for 3 years, and bought a lot of stuff from them. I even helped them sell stuff when I saw someone post in the "want to buy" and I would tell them Oaktree had it if I knew it was in inventory. For that reason I was on good terms with the GM - even had his personal cell phone number.

Finding out this Armatix deal was like finding out my wife was cheating on me with Barbara Boxer. I'm shocked, hurt, and disgusted all at the same time.

madjack956
02-27-2014, 10:12 AM
Cool - appreciate the additional info. But in an era of free enterprise (or at least capitalism), not sure what good dissing on Oaktree will do when so many other ranges would have stepped in (assuming Oaktree allowed for testing - I'm reading conflicting information).
Take that passion..err..anger and apply it to the knuckleheads in the state capitol; whether with your wallet, by protest to those that make decisions, your vote or all three.

Footnote: As a society, for decades we took it for granted that when we wrote a check at a retailer, providing a 2nd form of ID was muscle memory - you just did it. In reality, the retailer is telling saying YOU ARE A THIEF and we don't trust YOU that your check won't bounce.

That's how laws are enacted. The good people are assumed guilty while in daily life, the bad people could care less. This needs to change.

Dissing on Oaktree just put all the other gun ranges in check. And I would like to think that there really wasn't that many other ranges willing to shoot themselves and their customers in the foot by helping the anti's along.

As far as the knuckle heads in the state capitol; if we had the same sway over them as Oaktree, they would be back peddling right now too. But that's definitely not the case.

Bushwack44
02-27-2014, 3:58 PM
Dissing on Oaktree just put all the other gun ranges in check. And I would like to think that there really wasn't that many other ranges willing to shoot themselves and their customers in the foot by helping the anti's along.

As far as the knuckle heads in the state capitol; if we had the same sway over them as Oaktree, they would be back peddling right now too. But that's definitely not the case.

Appreciate the passion but you (I say in generalities) don't have any sway over Oaktree. In fact, the firearm community says otherwise. They are as busy as ever. And even if you got a mass boycott against them, and shut them down which would be the end result (as if that could ever happen), what good are you doing the firearm community??? You're creating more harm then good.

While I need to educate myself on the technology, efforts should go to the root of the issue. Not how (passionately) one boycotts small business. Again, I respect the position many of you hold but I feel it is misplaced.

Re-group and re-evaluate (who the enemy is).

Kodemonkey
02-28-2014, 11:11 AM
Sorry to cross-post but I posted an update from Oaktree in this thread

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=13547406#post13547406

(Mods, maybe we need to merge threads) Post #443

Steve1968LS2
03-01-2014, 7:35 AM
Gawd! You are dense. I'VE READ EVERYTHING DUDE! And that piece of information means NOTHING!

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

Troll.. yea, we see it.. :)

lol.. so dense it's actually entertaining.. troll on troll.. troll on...

SoCalGunny
03-01-2014, 3:18 PM
Gawd! You are dense. I'VE READ EVERYTHING DUDE! And that piece of information means NOTHING!

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

Sounds like we have an employee here or someone with a financial stake in Oak Tree Gun Club.

From the sounds of it probably one of the "Gun Girls" :fud:

shda5582
03-05-2014, 12:21 PM
Trying to shut me up isn't going to work Oak Tree. It just adds fuel to the fire I'm building against you.

Turns out that apparently Oak Tree is complaining to Yelp about the negative reviews and are having them taken down. Just got a mail from Yelp about it....


From: "Yelp HQ" <no-reply@yelp.com>
Sent: March 5, 2014 12:20 PM
To: <redacted> (my personal e-mail)
Subject: Message from Yelp HQ [ 2223932 ]
__________________________________
MAR 05, 2014 | 12:20PM PST
Hi there,

We're contacting you about your review of Oak Tree Gun Club. Though we understand this business has recently received media attention and that users may have strong opinions, Yelp reviews should be focused on everyday customer experiences with a business; we think this is an important requirement for keeping Yelp a useful site for consumer reviews. While you are welcome to post your comments on Yelp Talk, please note that at this time we will be removing any repostings from you to this business listing.

For more information about our Content Guidelines, please visit: www.yelp.com/guidelines

Regards,
Ruby
Yelp User Support
San Francisco, California

Yelp Official Blog | http://officialblog.yelp.com
Yelp Frequently Asked Questions | http://www.yelp.com/faq
Yelp for Business Owners | https://biz.yelp.com

shovelon
03-05-2014, 4:20 PM
I don't get it.

What did you say?

shda5582
03-05-2014, 5:22 PM
I basically 1 star'd them and explained it was due to them hosting and selling this particular pistol, it was a threat to 2a rights, they refused to publicly answer questions, etc.

bigcalidave
03-06-2014, 9:41 AM
I'd like to see oak tree respond to these articles, and not just deny it. The Washington Post is refuting the denial.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/03/06/the-smart-gun-controversy-at-oak-tree-gun-club/

There is a picture of the Armatrix posted with a price tag from your store.

shda5582
03-06-2014, 10:28 AM
bigcalidave: you kinda beat me to it, was coming here to repost what I did in the Smart Gun Tech thread, so I give props to you bringing it first before I did.

Here is my post from the other thread:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/03/06/the-smart-gun-controversy-at-oak-tree-gun-club/

Whoa.

At this point, it's IMPOSSIBLE for Oak Tree to deny they were ever going to sell the pistol. The first article, 2nd picture CLEARLY shows the sale tags in the case, along with a UPC bar code.

Why is that significant? UPC barcodes have to be entered into the POS (point of sale) system to be scanned for sale/inventory purposes. THERE is the damning proof I've been hoping we would get, this proves that Oak Tree had planned on selling this, because if they were just using the facility to demo/test the guns, there is NO reason for them to put the gun in the system for sale.

GOTCHA Oak Tree!



edit:

OH WAIT, it gets better. Oak Tree, you are DONE and I WILL see you shut down for your lies, manipulation, and attempt to destroy our 2a Rights.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/california-smart-gun-store-prompts-furious-backlash/2014/03/06/43432058-a544-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html


Padilla, whose company has a federal firearms license registered to Oak Tree’s address, soon discovered that Armatix hats and other merchandise were put away. The special firing range that she and Oak Tree outfitted, painted blue with a large Armatix sign, was repainted. When she took a client to buy the gun at the store, she was told there were “computer glitches.”



I should point out that Padilla's statement proves that they were having it available for sale, and were only unable to sell it because of "computer glitches". All we have heard from Oak Tree is denials and flat-out lies that they had ever intended to sell this. Proof enough for everyone that I was right?

shovelon
03-06-2014, 12:01 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/03/05/Local-Enterprise/Images/Armatix031394060953.jpg


A picture is worth a thousand words.


Bummer

SoCalGunny
03-06-2014, 3:09 PM
YUP.... They said they NEVER sold such a thing.... Pathetic

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/03/06/the-smart-gun-controversy-at-oak-tree-gun-club/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/california-smart-gun-store-prompts-furious-backlash/2014/03/06/43432058-a544-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html

rally200
03-06-2014, 3:31 PM
KNOCK OFF THE LIES! Oaktree has never sold armatix stuff or will. I've never heard a bigger bunch of friggin women cackling in my life here. Oaktree is the strongest 2A advocates there is you morons.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk






fly, we can't cure stupid, but I can ignore you...








Sent from my HTC6990LVW using Tapatalk

SoCalGunny
03-06-2014, 3:47 PM
KNOCK OFF THE LIES! Oaktree has never sold armatix stuff or will. I've never heard a bigger bunch of friggin women cackling in my life here. Oaktree is the strongest 2A advocates there is you morons.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

oh yeah?

http://i58.tinypic.com/206oenr.jpg

SoCalGunny
03-06-2014, 3:48 PM
Same thing happened to me. I got the same Email


Trying to shut me up isn't going to work Oak Tree. It just adds fuel to the fire I'm building against you.

Turns out that apparently Oak Tree is complaining to Yelp about the negative reviews and are having them taken down. Just got a mail from Yelp about it....


From: "Yelp HQ" <no-reply@yelp.com>
Sent: March 5, 2014 12:20 PM
To: <redacted> (my personal e-mail)
Subject: Message from Yelp HQ [ 2223932 ]
__________________________________
MAR 05, 2014 | 12:20PM PST
Hi there,

We're contacting you about your review of Oak Tree Gun Club. Though we understand this business has recently received media attention and that users may have strong opinions, Yelp reviews should be focused on everyday customer experiences with a business; we think this is an important requirement for keeping Yelp a useful site for consumer reviews. While you are welcome to post your comments on Yelp Talk, please note that at this time we will be removing any repostings from you to this business listing.

For more information about our Content Guidelines, please visit: www.yelp.com/guidelines

Regards,
Ruby
Yelp User Support
San Francisco, California

Yelp Official Blog | http://officialblog.yelp.com
Yelp Frequently Asked Questions | http://www.yelp.com/faq
Yelp for Business Owners | https://biz.yelp.com

Dirte
03-06-2014, 4:38 PM
Wow! Never in my entire life have I seen any person/organization get caught like this. I'm seriously awestruck at that picture with their name on the price tag. This would be fun to watch if it weren't so tragic.

I don't see how anyone can possibly defend them now in any way. Even if you had the position that its a free market, or that they didn't deserve to get punished this bad, no one can deny that they bold face lied to us all about not intending to sell it. I wouldn't support any business, anywhere, in any field, once I had absolutely irrefutable proof they were unethical.

William de Lamberton
03-07-2014, 7:36 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/03/05/Local-Enterprise/Images/Armatix031394060953.jpg


A picture is worth a thousand words.


Bummer

Up a notch and back to boil, I'm afraid...

california-firearms-shop-backs-away-from-smart-gun-after-backlash (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/07/california-firearms-shop-backs-away-from-smart-gun-after-backlash/?intcmp=latestnews)

xMAC1x
03-08-2014, 3:58 AM
Supporting oak tree, is supporting the antis.

shovelon
03-08-2014, 4:06 PM
That Fox article was exerpted from the WashPost. See it here complete here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/california-smart-gun-store-prompts-furious-backlash/2014/03/06/43432058-a544-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html

Kestryll has had some talks with them, and something may come of it. I hope it is good.

george tirebiter
03-09-2014, 1:18 PM
Follow up Examiner to their article in support of OTGC

http://www.examiner.com/article/questions-grow-over-gun-range-s-relationship-with-un-supporting-aramatix

Oldmandan
03-09-2014, 8:40 PM
Why do these guys still have a sub-forum on here? Boot em off!

shotlady
03-09-2014, 8:50 PM
I sure am disappointed to see this.

ZirconJohn
03-09-2014, 9:01 PM
OMG... I just NOW found out Oak Tree Gun Club has a SubForum here on CalGuns... :cuss: :no:

Now; this NOT my site, and not my place to say this... I understand that... this how I FEEL...!!!

Oak Tree... you need to do yourself a favor and delete your account here... you are NOT wanted, and moreover... you are NOT appreciated here... :toetap05:

PLEASE... CHECK OUT...!!!... and don't let the door HIT you where... :mad:

http://media.giphy.com/media/zHIO8dt6tgIoM/giphy.gif

shovelon
03-09-2014, 10:08 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/california-smart-gun-store-prompts-furious-backlash/2014/03/06/43432058-a544-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.htmlPadilla, whose company has a federal firearms license registered to Oak Tree’s address, soon discovered that Armatix hats and other merchandise were put away. The special firing range that she and Oak Tree outfitted, painted blue with a large Armatix sign, was repainted. When she took a client to buy the gun at the store, she was told there were “computer glitches.”

I don't ever remember hats and other merchandise being displayed in the gunshop. Perhaps the booth outside.

Had anyone else seen the Armatix hats or other accessories for sale there?

XDJYo
03-10-2014, 12:17 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/03/05/Local-Enterprise/Images/Armatix031394060953.jpg





A picture is worth a thousand words.





Bummer


Is this pic posted on yelp too? If not, it should be. Caption to go with it too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

shotlady
03-10-2014, 8:23 PM
Im pretty sure I saw the gun there. but don't remember if there were hats or sundries. just never occurred to me as anything of importance.


ya know when you **** up. say it. no one can give you any **** after you own it. own it, take yer lumps and move on-
perhaps they didn't understand the implications of carrying a product like this... perhaps they were balderdashed. it could happen...

but then just own it... no lieing or side stepping.

dang. just dang. im just really disappointed. :(

RECCE556
03-11-2014, 6:13 AM
What a bunch of backstabbing, backpedaling liars. Oak Tree, you guys deserve a big F-U. I'll never do any business with you guys again.

SonofWWIIDI
03-11-2014, 6:49 AM
Awesome, informative post OP! Thanks for your effort!
:clap:



[QUOTE=Kodemonkey;13514242]This range wont be closed down. First off, the property can probably never be used for anything but a gun range. I was told that when Booge Mercer Died and left the proprerty to the American Diabetes Association, that the ADA had difficulty selling it because it couldn't be anything but a gun range. That's when Jim Mitchell bought it. He's owned it since 2000.

I can see 2 different outcomes if a boycott actually worked (and I'm not saying it would):

1) They would drop the pistol shop and be clays only. The ATA shooters tend to not give a crap about the pistol shooters and probably would applaud the disappearance of the pistol range.

2) Mitchell loses so much money he has to sell it. That would take a long time and it would almost certainly stay a range. The community around it in Santa Clarita is moderate conservative and you don't hear bad press in the local papers about the range. The people here are indifferent to its existence, so I would say it wouldn't have to fight city hall if it changed ownership.

Not to throw water on a fire, I am just trying to be realistic.[/QUOTE

Group buy?

Calguns Members Range!

:D

vcollins
03-11-2014, 7:19 AM
I used to go to the pistol range often, pretty nice before they redesigned it. But they really screwed the pooch on this one...

Dhoggs
03-13-2014, 10:14 AM
This place will never get a dime from me!

addie
03-14-2014, 10:41 PM
I don't know how I missed this thread. Needless to say, I was disappointed like many of us. I bought my CZ P-01 from them a couple of years back at a great price and was impressed with them in general.

Too bad about this...can't rationalize supporting them any longer.

AntiScreed
03-15-2014, 10:56 AM
One thing that separates us from the gun-grabbers is the ability to step back from our emotions and see a problem for what it really is. There is nothing inherently wrong with “smart” guns. If someone could produce a magical, unicorn, smart gun that would only shoot bad guys, never ran out of batteries, and had perfect reliability in all conditions, I’d buy it (of course, such a gun does not exist). The problem is mandating the use of this technology. Directing anger towards Oaktree is no different than the gun-grabbers projecting their fear on guns.


Narcissism is the belief in nothing masquerading as tolerance of everything...Ayn Rand
www.2AFight.com

bigcalidave
03-15-2014, 2:16 PM
You really had to post that multiple places? What is with your weird defense of this company? Until they come out with some sort of response that isn't a blatant lie, there is no reason to sit here and say that the response is unfounded. This was a terrible idea all around, they are obviously connected to armatix, and should have apologized instead of lying about it.

AntiScreed
03-15-2014, 2:19 PM
Yup

Narcissism is the belief in nothing masquerading as tolerance of everything...Ayn Rand
www.2AFight.com

ixta70
03-15-2014, 2:33 PM
Wow missed a lot once I stopped coming on here. I had just bought a handgun from them last year. Never going back again

shda5582
03-15-2014, 3:23 PM
Screed, if this tech was so good, why aren't they mandating it for law enforcement? Why is it only for us civilians?

AntiScreed
03-15-2014, 8:15 PM
You seriously miss the entire point of this....I can't help you understand since you clearly have an agenda against Oaktree. You remind me of the leftie whacks I battle every day.

Narcissism is the belief in nothing masquerading as tolerance of everything...Ayn Rand
www.2AFight.com

LeftCoast Grower
03-15-2014, 8:37 PM
Oaktree lies.
Oaktree blows.
Now Oaktree sits silent on the matter.
Simple as that.

shda5582
03-15-2014, 10:13 PM
You seriously miss the entire point of this....I can't help you understand since you clearly have an agenda against Oaktree. You remind me of the leftie whacks I battle every day.

Narcissism is the belief in nothing masquerading as tolerance of everything...Ayn Rand
www.2AFight.com

I have a beef with any company that would try to infringe on our 2a rights, as Oak Tree has done. They may not have done it on purpose, or to be malicious, but in the end, they still did.

And funny that you accuse me of being a leftist when I'm a Libertarian, but I digress.

AntiScreed
03-15-2014, 11:52 PM
Lol

Narcissism is the belief in nothing masquerading as tolerance of everything...Ayn Rand
www.2AFight.com

boltmopar
03-16-2014, 2:47 PM
I'm actually surprised they stopped deleting comments on their facebook page.

AntiScreed
03-16-2014, 3:59 PM
Not true bolt. Never happened.

Narcissism is the belief in nothing masquerading as tolerance of everything...Ayn Rand
www.2AFight.com

shda5582
03-17-2014, 7:25 AM
Not true bolt. Never happened.

Narcissism is the belief in nothing masquerading as tolerance of everything...Ayn Rand
www.2AFight.com

Do you have proof? What is your source? How do you have inside knowledge of what Oak Tree would or would not be doing on their Facebook?

Champagne-N-Beer
03-17-2014, 2:48 PM
Hahaha - comical.

So, which is it AntiScreed? It never happened - They didn't delete? Or is it not true - they never stopped deleting?

Can't be both.

I think we have a resident Charlie Chaplin in here :) Nice to have a little laughter with such a touchy subject... :0)

SoCalGunny
04-21-2014, 7:00 PM
Bought another gun that would of been from Oak Tree if it were not for this. Way to go Oak Tree :)

Cobra Tactical, Addax Tactical and Island View Tactical are getting my money and have been going to a place to shoot and Angeles to shoot instead of here. Its on my mind every second im driving to/from or at the range/shop since I used to do everything at Oak Tree.

If you guys would of owned up to it up front and been honest id probably not be so against you guys but as an instructor and take typically 1-3 new shooters a week shooting I tell them all about the "Smart Gun" lies.

SoCalGunny
04-21-2014, 7:06 PM
I used to go to the pistol range often, pretty nice before they redesigned it. But they really screwed the pooch on this one...

Its really gone to hell in the last couple years too. It used to be really nice but its just been neglected for the last couple years. Speed plates no longer worked, they don't upkeep the re-painting of targets an the movers/spinners just don't work anymore. Its gone to crap.

They used to be the BEST then they grew to accommodate EVERYTHING and happily accepted being sub par but having a wide variety of shooting bays. Sad really.

SoCalGunny
04-21-2014, 7:08 PM
Not true bolt. Never happened.

Narcissism is the belief in nothing masquerading as tolerance of everything...Ayn Rand
www.2AFight.com

THey have personally deleted mine from there as well as yelp and blocked me from their facebook page.

Quit lying.

AntiScreed
04-23-2014, 3:56 PM
Good

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

CSACANNONEER
04-23-2014, 3:59 PM
I'm actually surprised they stopped deleting comments on their facebook page.

I'm surprised how many grown men waste their time on facebook or even care about facebook.

boltmopar
04-28-2014, 5:28 AM
I'm surprised how many grown men waste their time on facebook or even care about facebook.

You need one to be able to read most comments on pages, it is no different then coming on to OT here. I just don't post picture or play games on there. You should read this article though apparently people from the forum are harassing Ms. Padilla.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/us/politics/smart-firearm-draws-wrath-of-the-gun-lobby.html?emc=edit_th_20140428&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=65551179&_r=0

funnybookz
04-28-2014, 10:08 AM
I'm surprised how many grown men waste their time on facebook or even care about facebook.


You apparently don't understand how social media or the internet works.

Personally, about 35-45% of my work comes from clients I have met trough social media.

You're making it out to be a kids or women's thing. That's kind of funny.

golfguy
05-10-2014, 4:16 PM
To the owners of oak tree and their electronic gun:

You can't fix stupid. Stupid lasts forever.

xMAC1x
05-19-2014, 11:11 PM
They should be treated as well as the Sterling's.

AntiScreed
05-20-2014, 6:40 PM
Zzzzzzzzzz

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

shotlady
05-22-2014, 10:06 PM
I really do think armitrix mislead them about the benefits of selling this piece. making like it was a win for OT and a win for the shooters. when for sure it was a political thing. who hasn't bought **** because a distributer wasn't honest-I think they got balderdashed. I think they are a vendor that wanted to bring us the newest and the neatest.
I am a member I spoke in depth with a few people tonight. me thinks OT was mislead. & I know it wasn't with bad intentions.

Moto
05-22-2014, 10:24 PM
I really do think armitrix mislead them about the benefits of selling this piece. making like it was a win for OT and a win for the shooters. when for sure it was a political thing. who hasn't bought **** because a distributer wasn't honest-I think they got balderdashed. I think they are a vendor that wanted to bring us the newest and the neatest.
I am a member I spoke in depth with a few people tonight. me thinks OT was mislead. & I know it wasn't with bad intentions.

Actions speak louder than what you "think"

Their actions and also lack of, their deceit and indifference to everyone here is unacceptable and unconscionable.
Cut the crap ma'am. WE, the true enthusiasts and fighters of our constitution got , what was that ridiculous word you used? Oh yeah balderdashed!

shotlady
05-23-2014, 5:38 PM
one can think what they want, that's why I used the word think. balderdashed. how is your lack of knowledge of this word make me ridiculous? you sound like a f'n lib. knock it off. we are all on the same team.

I don't knock other views or opinions, doesn't make them right or wrong. doesn't make me right or wrong. this is a discussion board. and believe me no one is more disappointed on the silence than me. this is just my opinion.

xMAC1x
06-03-2014, 6:19 AM
Anything new?

meyerlemony
06-16-2014, 2:08 PM
Doesn't surprise me about oaktree. I feel like ace ventura whn he found out einhorn was finkle lol. Btw I went to their range with hi cap mags (pre ban). RSO told me I couldn't have those. Told him they were pre ban. He said "I don't care, if u don't like it u can get the f$%& out"

Funny ive been looking for a place to open a gun range. Maybe when they shut down I'll get a good deal on the their land. Suck it easy oak tree

I'd go in on that with you! Imagine - create a beautiful, immaculate facility, offer awesome customer service, put some more of that land to good use...

You'd make a fortune.

lendo_21
06-16-2014, 5:24 PM
I really want oak tree to respond to this..

shda5582
06-17-2014, 7:25 AM
If we haven't gotten a response from them by now, I doubt we're ever going to.