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View Full Version : BB or featureless?


Kestryll
02-26-2008, 11:18 AM
Well, I'm picking up my lower tonight and haven't figured out which way to go with it.

I have the lower and a LPK on the way, a 16" upper with flash hider and a collapsible stock. Logic says put a BB on it and run with it.

However I do not own any 10 round mags, all I have is several 30 rounders and some 20 rounders that I bought years ago when I was saving up for an AR before the ban. I never could get the cash together and ended up getting a Mini cheap but still had the mags for the AR.

So, it's buy a BB and several 10 rounders or buy either an A2 stock and MM grip or a U-15 and replace the flash hider with a brake.

I figure a BB and mags is about $100-$150 and it's about the same to get an A2 and a MMG and a bit more for a U-15.

What to do, what to do....

MonsterMan
02-26-2008, 11:20 AM
Kestryll, I will send you a MMG for free.

It's just a way of saying thanks for this site.

You don't have to use it if you don't want to go featureless, but at least you'll have one if you want to try it out.

PM coming.

:)

Hopi
02-26-2008, 11:27 AM
I run feature-less, there's nothing like practicing tactical reloads on my couch with 30 rounders......

jandmtv
02-26-2008, 11:29 AM
well, there is your answer, IMHO if you have all those pre-ban mags, use them! go featureless, if you dont like it, you can always go the bb route.

Full Clip
02-26-2008, 11:39 AM
well, there is your answer, IMHO if you have all those pre-ban mags, use them! go featureless, if you dont like it, you can always go the bb route.

Exactly.

DedEye
02-26-2008, 11:45 AM
Go featureless, then build another with a bullet button :43:.

SunriseF150
02-26-2008, 12:16 PM
What about pinning (not sure how permanent it would need to be, or if just a screw or something would do) the collapsable stock into the desired setting and using a MMG with it? You can get your thumb over the fin of the grip, but then it's over the line of the exposed part of the trigger (not like you wouldn't shoot with your thumb on the same side anyways as it's probably more comfortable that way).

.45shooter
02-26-2008, 12:23 PM
If i had Hi cap mags laying around collecting dust and MM is willing to give a grip for Free....Well thats a no brainer...Built another lower with a BB...

Kestryll
02-26-2008, 12:46 PM
Kestryll, I will send you a MMG for free.

It's just a way of saying thanks for this site.

You don't have to use it if you don't want to go featureless, but at least you'll have one if you want to try it out.

PM coming.

:)

Wow, I'm a bit caught off guard by this.

Thank you!

I will send you my address via PM

Kestryll
02-26-2008, 12:50 PM
What about pinning (not sure how permanent it would need to be, or if just a screw or something would do) the collapsable stock into the desired setting and using a MMG with it? You can get your thumb over the fin of the grip, but then it's over the line of the exposed part of the trigger (not like you wouldn't shoot with your thumb on the same side anyways as it's probably more comfortable that way).

That never crossed my mind but it's not a bad idea at all!

It's not the shape of the stock but that fact that is collapses that becomes a legal issue so why not just lock it?

Now I need to find a picture to see how a collapsible looks with a MMG!

Dedeye is right however, I still will need to build two more.
I want one with a MM grip for general service, one with a Bullet Button for evil goodness and one with a U-15 and a scope for target shooting.

*sigh* after fending off BRD for so long I'm feeling the first symptoms.... :D

Steyr_223
02-26-2008, 12:54 PM
I started with a feature less with a U15. It was followed by a evil featured one with a Prince 50. The next one was a feature less with a Monster Man and a full stock.

My current in progress will have a bullet button with evil features..

Diversity is Good.

Lohse
02-26-2008, 12:56 PM
Order up a BB from Wes.

There are some mags for sale in the for sale forumn at a pretty good price here: http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=84426

bwiese
02-26-2008, 12:59 PM
I vote MM grip or U15 stock myself....

The ability to use real detachable mags has true practicality.

One of the reasons Gene, I & others fought the DOJ so hard on issues of redefinition of 'detachable magazine' was not only to keep DOJ honest, but to keep 'em preoccupied while MMGs & U15s were gaining traction.

Alison was fighting so hard against methods of fixed mag attachment she got blown away by all the folks using legit hicaps in their MMG/gripless builds.

jumbopanda
02-26-2008, 1:01 PM
As long as you've got hicaps, go featureless.

bwiese
02-26-2008, 1:02 PM
It's not the shape of the stock but that fact that is collapses that becomes a legal issue so why not just lock it?

I'd have it locked down good (screwed/pinned/Threadlok) - not any kinda thumbscrew setup. Don't want it 'accidentally' becoming collapsible in a police evidence locker should something untoward happen.

Now I need to find a picture to see how a collapsible looks with a MMG!

Hmm, the last pic I saw seemed to have a slight risk of allowing a skinny hand w/long fingers behind the MMG... perhaps you have to add some filler behind MMG to get it up to the receiver extension ("buffer tube"). Frankly, it doesn't look too good either, apperance-wise IMHO. MMG design was tuned for A2 stocks.

SunriseF150
02-26-2008, 1:22 PM
I'd have it locked down good (screwed/pinned/Threadlok) - not any kinda thumbscrew setup. Don't want it 'accidentally' becoming collapsible in a police evidence locker should something untoward happen.

Yes some kind of permanent lock down is the way to go. Like an allen (or security bit) screw.


Hmm, the last pic I saw seemed to have a slight risk of allowing a skinny hand w/long fingers behind the MMG... perhaps you have to add some filler behind MMG to get it up to the receiver extension ("buffer tube"). Frankly, it doesn't look too good either, apperance-wise IMHO. MMG design was tuned for A2 stocks.

Well even if your thumb can get over the fin, it will still be over the line of the exposed part of the trigger. So would it even matter?

I stuck a mmg (placed on but not screwed down) on one of my lowers that has a magpul CTR on (lower doesn't have any FCG cause i'm waiting on funds for a JP trigger). It looks pretty good and if you did stick your thumb over the fin part it's over the line of the trigger. So it seemed like it would be legit if the stock was pinned in place. Although my camera took a dump on me so I can't get a pic of it to show you what it looks like. But it did look pretty good.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
02-26-2008, 1:30 PM
I'd suggest featureless. I went U-15 for the hicap reason.

MonsterMan
02-26-2008, 1:39 PM
Hmm, the last pic I saw seemed to have a slight risk of allowing a skinny hand w/long fingers behind the MMG... perhaps you have to add some filler behind MMG to get it up to the receiver extension ("buffer tube").

The only place that drops below the "line" is the last 1 inch of the top of the fin. I don't believe anyone could place their "web" their and still reach the trigger. They might be able to get their thumb over it, but it would be such a position that I don't think anyone could call it a "pistol style grasp" anymore.

If anyone can do it, post pics. I would love to see.

Hopi
02-26-2008, 1:39 PM
I'd have it locked down good (screwed/pinned/Threadlok) - not any kinda thumbscrew setup. Don't want it 'accidentally' becoming collapsible in a police evidence locker should something untoward happen.



Hmm, the last pic I saw seemed to have a slight risk of allowing a skinny hand w/long fingers behind the MMG... perhaps you have to add some filler behind MMG to get it up to the receiver extension ("buffer tube"). Frankly, it doesn't look too good either, apperance-wise IMHO. MMG design was tuned for A2 stocks.

I run a pinned M-4 stock, and I cut a pistol grip down at the bolt. It leaves a very small shelf that helps to steady my hand. It is very comfortable and I can wield it with one hand for reloading and such. It acts very much like the old SRB but is thicker and does not push into the palm at all.

Kestryll
02-26-2008, 4:10 PM
I'd have it locked down good (screwed/pinned/Threadlok) - not any kinda thumbscrew setup. Don't want it 'accidentally' becoming collapsible in a police evidence locker should something untoward happen.



Hmm, the last pic I saw seemed to have a slight risk of allowing a skinny hand w/long fingers behind the MMG... perhaps you have to add some filler behind MMG to get it up to the receiver extension ("buffer tube"). Frankly, it doesn't look too good either, apperance-wise IMHO. MMG design was tuned for A2 stocks.

If I do the collapsible stock route I'll likely use a through and through bolt with a locktite and locknut combo, why leave it to chance?

I think I'm going to start looking for an A2 stock however, it does look better that way.

elSquid
02-26-2008, 4:54 PM
If I do the collapsible stock route I'll likely use a through and through bolt with a locktite and locknut combo, why leave it to chance?

I think I'm going to start looking for an A2 stock however, it does look better that way.

If you are trying to build a handy rifle, another option is to buy a RRA "entry" A2 stock. I'm currently considering this for my upcoming MMG build. ( I assume that the MMG will have to be slightly modded to fit. )

-- Michael

aplinker
02-26-2008, 8:59 PM
I can't believe you haven't built an AR already! Where have you been? Haven't you been to Calguns.net? :D

tenpercentfirearms
02-26-2008, 9:45 PM
I wonder who would send you the A2 stock and a muzzle brake at cost? :rolleyes:

Probably the same guy who sent you the Centermass Tactical CALGUNS serial # SB23-0001 for free.

Kestryll
02-26-2008, 10:37 PM
I wonder who would send you the A2 stock and a muzzle brake at cost? :rolleyes:

Probably the same guy who sent you the Centermass Tactical CALGUNS serial # SB23-0001 for free.

By the time I'm done with this I'm going to have to put a label on it, "Calguns 0001, brought to you by Ten Percent Firearms' :D

Wes, you rock.
I'll PM you with my address and to get a total from you.

Thank you.

tenpercentfirearms
02-26-2008, 11:38 PM
We forgot the ambi selector.

inda_bebe
03-22-2008, 9:53 PM
on my 16", A2 stock, MMG and detachable mag button.

could a birdcage be used on this rifle if i was to use a preban 30 round mag? or it MUST be replaced w/ a MUZZLE BREAK?

DedEye
03-22-2008, 9:58 PM
Delete your post above, it is an admission of a felony (if the rifle is in CA in such a configuration).

A flash suppressor is an evil feature and cannot be used on a detachable mag rifle! It doesn't matter whether you're using 30 round magazines or not, you CANNOT have a detachable magazine rifle with a flash suppressor.

inda_bebe
03-22-2008, 10:03 PM
anyone have a spare muzzle break that i can use for a day or just buy tonight? im here in orange county.

inda_bebe
03-22-2008, 10:04 PM
you CANNOT have a detachable magazine rifle with a flash suppressor.


what if a bullet button was used w/ a flash suppressor?

DedEye
03-22-2008, 10:07 PM
what if a bullet button was used w/ a flash suppressor?

With a bullet button, you can have any and all evil features.

MonsterMan
03-22-2008, 10:10 PM
But you can't use your 30 round mags.

inda_bebe
03-22-2008, 10:11 PM
damn, i need a muzzle break tonight. Please someone have one available in O.C.

shark92651
03-22-2008, 10:17 PM
damn, i need a muzzle break tonight. Please someone have one available in O.C.

I have YHM Phantom muzzle brakes, both flat and agressive end. I'm in Newport Coast. Do you need to pick it up tonight or will tomorrow be ok?

hawk1
03-22-2008, 10:18 PM
Nope, and can't use the twenty's either... 10 round max

JayRuff
03-22-2008, 10:18 PM
If looks matter to you, go with a BB ;) But then again, it would be allot cooler to use 30 round mags :D

inda_bebe
03-22-2008, 10:23 PM
dave, i was gonna give you a call. but i dont get off from the hospital till 7am.

aplinker
03-23-2008, 2:44 AM
You could've come by Randall's (AR15barrels). He's got a drawer full of every comp/brake you could think of. Was just at his place tonight.

ar15barrels
03-23-2008, 12:21 PM
Featureless for sure.
Buying/using 10 round mags when you don't HAVE to is just stupid.

And I'll donate a simple Stag brake to the project if Kestryll wants to come over...

blisster
03-23-2008, 12:49 PM
so legally owned, pre-ban hi-cap mags can't be used with an otherwise CA-complaint (BB or P50) pistol-grip equipped AR?

ar15barrels
03-23-2008, 12:52 PM
so legally owned, pre-ban hi-cap mags can't be used with an otherwise CA-complaint (BB or P50) pistol-grip equipped AR?

You can not use legally owned large capacity magazines in a "featured" rifle.

aplinker
03-23-2008, 4:28 PM
so legally owned, pre-ban hi-cap mags can't be used with an otherwise CA-complaint (BB or P50) pistol-grip equipped AR?

:eek:

Think about why the use of the BB or P50 allows features - because it makes it a "fixed magazine" rifle with a magazine capacity of no more than 10rds.

If you stuck a mag with more than that into a BB build, even without any other features, you'd have an assault weapons, as "fixed magazine with more than 10rds" is an AW.

blisster
03-23-2008, 6:50 PM
ahhhh, riiight. I had to go back and re-read the verbage, now i see. Thanks!

wearemisled
03-25-2008, 12:47 AM
I have the same issue that I am debating right now. I want all those beautiful "evil" features but was lucky enough to buy five pre-ban 30 round AR mags and twelve 40 round Mini-14 mags (bought so many because I already owned the Mini) back in 1999, in right before the ban (smartest thing I ever did now that we have OLL's). So I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet and build two AR's. :eek: :cool:

dragonbait1a
03-25-2008, 1:25 AM
Featureless! If it was a target gun I may have a different opinion but 16" BBL = Detachable Mags to me!

YMMV

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