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jcaoloveshine
02-23-2008, 8:30 PM
what kind of rifle or shotgun would you guys recommend for home defense? seeing as im not yet 21 i cant get a pistol so these are my only options.

jandmtv
02-23-2008, 8:49 PM
goto big5 and get a rem 870.

tombinghamthegreat
02-23-2008, 9:00 PM
Go to big 5, get a remington 870 or a mossberg 500(590 or 590a1 depending on what you want). But a shotgun is a better weapon for home defense than most rifles. The reason is because home defense is close range combat and most rifles that would be effective in that situation are banned in California. I am not saying a rifle is useless but there could be downsides to using a rifle and a risk of shooting though walls depending on your location. Of course a handgun is good defense firearm in that situation but since you are not 21....

.223
02-23-2008, 9:16 PM
Of course a handgun is good defense firearm in that situation but since you are not 21....

Some handgun cartridges are just as capable of overpenetration. Even shotguns can do it, but aren't as likely to AFAIK.

HKROB
02-23-2008, 9:48 PM
Mossberg 500 18" barrel $250 from Big5 add a ATI pistol griped stock thats what works for me.

8205

Mac
02-23-2008, 10:07 PM
....

Higbean
02-23-2008, 10:10 PM
Mossberg 500 18" barrel $250 from Big5 add a ATI pistol griped stock thats what works for me.

8205

I would spend a little more money and get an 870 police from the start if I were you. They are worth the extra dollars IMHO. If you are looking to upgrade it I would highly recomend staying away from any of the ATI products. Pure junk plain and simple. Tacstar makes a good side saddle. Knoxx, Mesa or Speed Feed stock. If you go Mossy, don't put a pistol grip stock on it. Can't operate the safety. Did I mention to stay away from ATI stuff?

deleted by PC police
02-23-2008, 10:34 PM
I would spend a little more money and get an 870 police from the start if I were you. They are worth the extra dollars IMHO. If you are looking to upgrade it I would highly recomend staying away from any of the ATI products. Pure junk plain and simple. Tacstar makes a good side saddle. Knoxx, Mesa or Speed Feed stock. If you go Mossy, don't put a pistol grip stock on it. Can't operate the safety. Did I mention to stay away from ATI stuff?

Thanks for the input. I was going to order an ATI stock for my Remington 870tommrow.

s2000news
02-23-2008, 10:38 PM
I would spend a little more money and get an 870 police from the start if I were you. They are worth the extra dollars IMHO. If you are looking to upgrade it I would highly recomend staying away from any of the ATI products. Pure junk plain and simple. Tacstar makes a good side saddle. Knoxx, Mesa or Speed Feed stock. If you go Mossy, don't put a pistol grip stock on it. Can't operate the safety. Did I mention to stay away from ATI stuff?

I have had a very different history with mine.

I have a Mossberg 590, added a ATI collapsible stock with pistol grip and had no issues. Safety is still available and works fine. The Mossberg has seen thousands of rounds, both at clays and other things. :) Works like a charm.

HUTCH 7.62
02-23-2008, 10:45 PM
Nothing says f-you like looking down the wrong end of a 45-70 Govt. Marlin guide gun.

chsk9
02-23-2008, 10:52 PM
Not 21? How about one of these.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/common/search/search-results1.jsp?QueryText=blcak+powder+pistol&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=blcak+powder+pistol&noImage=0&&firstPage=true

Plenty of folks used this type in the past with good effect.

errr.... keep your powder dry! :eek:

JPglee1
02-23-2008, 10:58 PM
Mossberg 500A w/the 5rd tuebe, 18" barrel///

Pawn shops are full of them, Mossie warranties them even if they are 30yrs old, an 80s one I bought used needed a trigger group and they fixed it free including freight.

Even NEW they are around $229 with 2 barrels at Big 5....

Good luck.

J

HUTCH 7.62
02-23-2008, 11:03 PM
errr.... keep your powder dry! :eek:

LOL...........:jump:

acolytes
02-23-2008, 11:07 PM
I have 2 shotties. My first was a regular 16 gauge pump with a traditional rifle stock. I didnt like the feel because I'm used to assault rifles, so I went out and got a mossberg 500 tactical with a pistol grip and collapsible stock. Feels PERFECT! That's my home defense weapon of choice. Mossberg 500 tactical with a flashlight mount and buckshot.

franks71vw
02-23-2008, 11:07 PM
:eek::cool2::pum ill take a crack at this trick question Saiga 12 witha 20 rd drum loaded with OO and Slug in an everyother pattern???

JPglee1
02-23-2008, 11:10 PM
:eek::cool2::pum ill take a crack at this trick question Saiga 12 witha 20 rd drum loaded with OO and Slug in an everyother pattern???

Clear the smoke outta yer VW before you post again ;)

A S12 w/a Wraithmaker is a FELONY in Califas, dude.....


Id BE careful the advice you give, even in jest....


Semi auto shotgun with more than 10rds is illegal... semi w/a detach mag is illegal... yer double stuft on that one haha


J

sloguy
02-23-2008, 11:21 PM
id say a oll ar. or even a ak. your going to want one eventually anyway. if your doing this on the cheap then a sks could work out well.

if you choose a shotgun make sure you use 00 buck or better. slugs are good. do not use birdshot unless you have a really good reason to "have" to use it. it wounds too shallow to ensure a mechanical stop. rem870 or moss500 are fine. only real differences are where the controls are. its personal choice. the ones ive handled new on the shelf all rattle the same.

id recomend a rifle just for the "rattle factor". shotguns rattle and when your moving around they tell a badguy exactly where you are in the house.

whatever you get, put in the range time. shotguns arent the room clearing wonderweapon many think they are. you still have to aim.

frigginchi
02-23-2008, 11:49 PM
I'm lookin for one of these.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_19_46/ai_65017379

http://www.gengerketactical.com/pictures/600DSCN1448.jpg

aplinker
02-24-2008, 12:16 AM
Yes, buy an unproven, out of manufacture platform for self defense.

Just get a Mossberg 500 or 590 (anything you want, as cheap as you can find or as nice as you'd like)

or

Remington 870

Get a 12ga and at least 5 round capacity

If you can afford it, get one parkerized.

Get one with a shorter (18.5") barrel

Put on a shorter stock and a PG if it's more comfortable for you.

Get a tritium front bead

DONE.

I'm lookin for one of these.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_19_46/ai_65017379

http://www.gengerketactical.com/pictures/600DSCN1448.jpg

frigginchi
02-24-2008, 12:18 AM
I already own a few registered AW, 2 shotguns and 2 OLL. I'm willing to buy a fun toy.

Yes, buy an unproven, out of manufacture platform for self defense.

Just get a Mossberg 500 or 590 (anything you want, as cheap as you can find or as nice as you'd like)

or

Remington 870

Get a 12ga and at least 5 round capacity

If you can afford it, get one parkerized.

Get one with a shorter (18.5") barrel

Put on a shorter stock and a PG if it's more comfortable for you.

Get a tritium front bead

DONE.

aplinker
02-24-2008, 12:56 AM
That's fine, but the OP asked about HD

I already own a few registered AW, 2 shotguns and 2 OLL. I'm willing to buy a fun toy.

zcktomcat
02-24-2008, 1:10 AM
OLL in California is a horrible choice. The ultimate would be an AR pistol. The perfect combination of firepower and size for CQB. Of course they are a pain to acquire in the PRK. But if you want to go rifle you need a rifle with detachable magazines. No one wants to be cracking the rifle in half or shoving a cartridge in the mag release during a shootout. For rifle I'd go with a KelTec su16. Plop a red dot and you have a great short range set up.

Mac
02-24-2008, 1:15 AM
....

aplinker
02-24-2008, 1:45 AM
OLL in California is a horrible choice. The ultimate would be an AR pistol. The perfect combination of firepower and size for CQB. Of course they are a pain to acquire in the PRK. But if you want to go rifle you need a rifle with detachable magazines. No one wants to be cracking the rifle in half or shoving a cartridge in the mag release during a shootout. For rifle I'd go with a KelTec su16. Plop a red dot and you have a great short range set up.

:rofl2:

This is just so full of wrong info.

The AR pistol is not that difficult to get in CA, but would require the magazine to be fixed (the magwell is outside the pistol).

Further, an AR pistol is a horrible choice for SD. The reason the 5.56 round is effective, at all, is because of velocity. A 6-8" barrel doesn't get the 5.56 moving. It could be compensated for with larger rounds, but this just adds recoil to a poorly designed pistol.

AR rifles can be made in CA with detachable magazines, using the MMG or U-15, or did you think the only ARs were the Bushmaster top loaders?

The SU-16 is one rifle I would NEVER trust my life to. Never. (I even like my SU-16)

The point was he CAN have a pistol if under 21yrs of age as long as it's blackpowder. :D

Just a thought, if he was wanting a pistol.

He could also get one through an interfamilial transfer (up/down lineage)

Paratus et Vigilans
02-24-2008, 1:47 AM
The point was he CAN have a pistol if under 21yrs of age as long as it's blackpowder. :D

Just a thought, if he was wanting a pistol.

Yeah, I can just imagine plugging some intruder with my Remington New Army 1858 cap and ball .44. :eek: Huge flash, big cloud of gunsmoke, nasty dirty wound from the nasty greasy lead ball . . . that BG's last earthly thought will be, "WTF was that . . . . ???" :D

I love shooting mine (from Cabela's, in SS) but the thing is, once you've got 'er loaded up, there's only the one way to get 'er unloaded . . . .

Knight
02-24-2008, 1:59 AM
Just do what most people have already suggested and get a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500/590. Again, as someone already mentioned, Your local Big5 should probably have pretty good deals on these guns. If you're the patient kind, you might want to wait for them to go on sale, as they seem to do so pretty often (at least at my local store).

sloguy
02-24-2008, 2:14 AM
OLL in California is a horrible choice. The ultimate would be an AR pistol. The perfect combination of firepower and size for CQB. Of course they are a pain to acquire in the PRK. But if you want to go rifle you need a rifle with detachable magazines. No one wants to be cracking the rifle in half or shoving a cartridge in the mag release during a shootout. For rifle I'd go with a KelTec su16. Plop a red dot and you have a great short range set up.

i guess you never heard of a mmg or bb huh?

sloguy
02-24-2008, 2:17 AM
. . that BG's last earthly thought will be, "WTF was that . . . . ???" . . . .

that paints a very poetic picture in my head. i like it.

Horus408
02-24-2008, 7:23 AM
Go with the Rem or Moss shotgun, you can trick it out in the future.
Hi Mom!

Higbean
02-24-2008, 8:14 AM
I think it is funny how many people are truely internet ninjas when it comes to self defense in the home. Don't use anything less than 00 buck? An AR pistol is the best HD weapon ever? OLL for home defense?

I wouldn't want to go through a law suit having killed an intruder with a single shot Thompson Center, let alone be a test case with an OLL.

An AR pistol would be the worst choice as a HD gun. The muzzle blast alone would be a good reason, but add the miniscule gas system, crappy ballistics and inability to reload and it is a done deal.

As for the 00 buck comment, there is plenty of power behind lesser loads. #4 buck is my favorite with 27 .243 caliber pellets. I wouldn't want to use any dove loads, but bird shot at home defense distances would work great. Next time you are at the range buy a box of high base #5s or even #6s. Heck, open one up before you shoot. Then come on here and tell me they wouldn't do the trick.

caldude
02-24-2008, 8:30 AM
As for the 00 buck comment, there is plenty of power behind lesser loads. #4 buck is my favorite with 27 .243 caliber pellets. I wouldn't want to use any dove loads, but bird shot at home defense distances would work great. Next time you are at the range buy a box of high base #5s or even #6s. Heck, open one up before you shoot. Then come on here and tell me they wouldn't do the trick.

I read somewhere that even #6 bird shot, while not ideal, is acceptable as a HD round. At 10-15 feet, there isn't going to be much spread on the pattern, so you still end up with an almost solid slug of lead (in little pellets) hitting the perp (assuming you can aim). That's still going to cause a great big bloody ole wound, and probably knock them back.

vandal
02-24-2008, 8:37 AM
Having tested different birdshot at the range -- You can put me in the "they wouldn't do the trick" camp. Not enough penetration. #4 buck may be GTG but I didn't test it. I am sticking with 00.

I wouldn't want to use any dove loads, but bird shot at home defense distances would work great. Next time you are at the range buy a box of high base #5s or even #6s. Heck, open one up before you shoot. Then come on here and tell me they wouldn't do the trick.

sloguy
02-24-2008, 8:41 AM
bird shot at home defense distances would work great.

hahahahahhahahahahahaha.

a 22lr rifle would be a better stopper than birdshot.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
02-24-2008, 8:47 AM
Remington 870 will last a life time. Your grand kids will be using it.

Higbean
02-24-2008, 9:09 AM
I read somewhere that even #6 bird shot, while not ideal, is acceptable as a HD round. At 10-15 feet, there isn't going to be much spread on the pattern, so you still end up with an almost solid slug of lead (in little pellets) hitting the perp (assuming you can aim). That's still going to cause a great big bloody ole wound, and probably knock them back.

Well, that certainly is true, but here is the problem. Too many folks have read stuff on the internet so it must be true. Not trying to attack anyone here, just pointing out what I have seen myself.

"hahahahahhahahahahahaha.

a 22lr rifle would be a better stopper than birdshot."

Whatever you've got to tell yourself. I know this is a pretty hot topic, but try this next time you are at the range. Measure the longest shot you would have to make in your house. Take some different loads of bird shot and do some testing yourself at the same distance.


To the OP, sorry for the Hi Jack man.

rksimple
02-24-2008, 9:09 AM
Having tested different birdshot at the range -- You can put me in the "they wouldn't do the trick" camp. Not enough penetration. #4 buck may be GTG but I didn't test it. I am sticking with 00.

+1. #4 buck is the smallest I'd go for HD. Bird shot, even at close distances, does not penetrate deep enough to hit vitals.

AJAX22
02-24-2008, 10:06 AM
Yeah, I can just imagine plugging some intruder with my Remington New Army 1858 cap and ball .44. :eek: Huge flash, big cloud of gunsmoke, nasty dirty wound from the nasty greasy lead ball . . . that BG's last earthly thought will be, "WTF was that . . . . ???" :D

I love shooting mine (from Cabela's, in SS) but the thing is, once you've got 'er loaded up, there's only the one way to get 'er unloaded . . . .

They make drop in conversion cylinders which allow you to use .45 ACP or .45 LC or .44 long etc.

You mail order the gun, mail order the cylinder, put the cylinder in the gun, and then you have a legally aquired pistol in CA while under age.

I had a .38 SPL converted .1858 remington when I was 18-19

and for BP guns, you don't have to shoot them to unload them, you can use a ball jag (looks like a little corkscrew to pull the lead ball out (take the caps off first)

As far as the whole birdshot for self defense thing goes.... its a bad idea. anything over 10 feet and a heavy leather jacket will prevent most penetration. and you will NOT make it through the rib cage.

aplinker
02-24-2008, 10:25 AM
+1. #4 buck is the smallest I'd go for HD. Bird shot, even at close distances, does not penetrate deep enough to hit vitals.

+3 on this. Penetration isn't there with less.

JPglee1
02-24-2008, 10:33 AM
:
Further, an AR pistol is a horrible choice for SD. The reason the 5.56 round is effective, at all, is because of velocity. A 6-8" barrel doesn't get the 5.56 moving. It could be compensated for with larger rounds, but this just adds recoil to a poorly designed pistol.

Ive personally seen 10.25" uppers break 2500fps with 55gr issue LC ammo and my personal 11.5" does 2700 with same ammo.

Guys on ARF.com have chrono'd 7.5" uppers over 2300FPS which aint bad to me. Imagine using 40gr VMAX ammo with a 7.5" upper that was 1:9... 2500+ FPS and massive frag. People compare a 7.5" upper to a .22magnum....

.22WMR:
40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lbf (439 J)

.223 Rem w/7.5" upper:

55gr FMJ 2300 ft/s 800+ ft/lbs energy

Thats a lot stronger than a .22WMR or .22LR, by far.... plus it will penetrate car doors, house walls/doors, etc in a compact package.



I agree 100% about using anything but a handheld "regular" pistol w/a tactical light/rail OR a shotty soley for HD.... I use #4 buck or larger. Sometimes Ill alternate #4 and #0 buck. But Im weird.




J

aplinker
02-24-2008, 10:56 AM
You really need 2500+ for the 5.56 to work properly and fragment. If they can do that, then that's good. I'm surprised it does it out of that short of a barrel. With exotic ammo it could work, too. It just doesn't make sense -- muzzle blast and flash would be huge, the pistol recoil axis is HIGH and many other issues, especially in CA without detachable mags.




Ive personally seen 10.25" uppers break 2500fps with 55gr issue LC ammo and my personal 11.5" does 2700 with same ammo.

Guys on ARF.com have chrono'd 7.5" uppers over 2300FPS which aint bad to me. Imagine using 40gr VMAX ammo with a 7.5" upper that was 1:9... 2500+ FPS and massive frag. People compare a 7.5" upper to a .22magnum....

.22WMR:
40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lbf (439 J)

.223 Rem w/7.5" upper:

55gr FMJ 2300 ft/s 800+ ft/lbs energy

Thats a lot stronger than a .22WMR or .22LR, by far.... plus it will penetrate car doors, house walls/doors, etc in a compact package.



I agree 100% about using anything but a handheld "regular" pistol w/a tactical light/rail OR a shotty soley for HD.... I use #4 buck or larger. Sometimes Ill alternate #4 and #0 buck. But Im weird.




J

M. Sage
02-24-2008, 11:00 AM
Remington 870, Mossberg 500, either way, get the 18" barrel and you should be good to go. Then learn how to use it.

An off-list rifle in carbine version with either a MMG or U15 and detachable mags would be equally good (my HD arm is an off-list Romy AK with detachable mags), but again, learn to use it properly!

That doesn't mean sitting at a bench, it means educating yourself on techniques and practicing them at the least, or preferably taking a class, depends on your budget.

The up-sides of a long arm for HD are that it's got much better stopping power than a handgun, is usually much easier to aim (if you can't point-shoot center mass at distances well beyond across the room, you need more practice) than a handgun. The down-side is that it's harder to handle in tight spaces and you have to worry about a BG getting hold of it. That's part of where training and education comes in.

Well, that certainly is true, but here is the problem. Too many folks have read stuff on the internet so it must be true. Not trying to attack anyone here, just pointing out what I have seen myself.

"hahahahahhahahahahahaha.

a 22lr rifle would be a better stopper than birdshot."

Whatever you've got to tell yourself. I know this is a pretty hot topic, but try this next time you are at the range. Measure the longest shot you would have to make in your house. Take some different loads of bird shot and do some testing yourself at the same distance.


To the OP, sorry for the Hi Jack man.

.22LR would be more effective than bird shot. Bird shot will hit in one solid chunk, yes, but the individual pellets then go their separate ways and won't penetrate deeply. Bird shot is pretty well useless. Forget testing it "at the range" unless you've mixed up a batch of ballistic gelatin. There are tons of ballistic gelatin tests you can find with a quick Google search, however, that disprove the possible effectiveness of birdshot as an HD load. The penetration just isn't there.

For example: http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/ballistics_shotgun.html

Or: http://www.brassfetcher.com/

You can expect #6 bird shot to penetrate about 10" of ballistic gelatin. With the proper load, a .22 LR will go 14", with 12" being pretty widely considered the minimum penetration needed for defensive situations.

Personally, I'd rather have a .22 autoloader than birdshot...

GuyW
02-24-2008, 5:44 PM
...but the thing is, once you've got 'er loaded up, there's only the one way to get 'er unloaded . . . .

?? I'd A) pull the caps, and/or B) pull the cylinder....

Stubby
02-24-2008, 8:16 PM
I should also add to the list a nice little M1 carbine. It's lightweight, easy to maneuver in a tight environment, and loaded with softpoint or hollowpoint loads is a very effective manstopper. As an added bonus if you live in a county that is not so gun friendly and worry about a stupid gun ignorant DA attempting to charge you with assault weapon violation after using an OLL to defend yourself. The M1 carbine will not invoke the wrath of stupid DA's.;)

Then again, I suppose if you live in that type of county your are probably screwed even if you use a BB gun.:banghead:

HKROB
02-24-2008, 8:27 PM
I would highly recomend staying away from any of the ATI products. Pure junk plain and simple. Tacstar makes a good side saddle. Knoxx, Mesa or Speed Feed stock. If you go Mossy, don't put a pistol grip stock on it. Can't operate the safety. Did I mention to stay away from ATI stuff?

Tell us how you really feel :confused:

zcktomcat
02-24-2008, 9:28 PM
I kind of meant the ar pistol as a joke (at least in CA). In defense of the awesome ar pistol, like stated earlier the loss in velocity on shorter barrels is really negligible. Recoil isn't that bad especially with a muzzle break. Plus with the shorter barrels navigating close quarters is made substantially easier. As for the moster man grip, its great as long as you don't care that you have next to no control of your weapon, should someone try to take it from you. The U15 doesn't have that problem though. And while BB is great it is a bit awkward to operate, especially if you were fighting for your life. Shotguns are fine, they will scare anyone s**tless. Recoil will be a bit heavy. In all honesty my first choice is my XD-9. Ammo is cheap enough so I shoot it all the time, its incredibly reliable, and being small you can hide it easier than a full length rifle/shotgun.

Ech0Sierra
02-24-2008, 9:46 PM
Q. My department is considering using 10" or 11.5" barrels for our ARs. They are so cool, and everyone knows that all the real go-fast, high-speed, low-drag operators use SBRs. Plus, Robert DeNiro uses one in "Heat." What's the best ammo to use to poke big holes in the bad guys with these?

We dislike this question. We dislike it because of its premise. The premise is that 10" or 11.5" barrels are good choices for law enforcement or defensive use. We strongly disagree with this premise. Some of us actually dislike even 14.5" barrels, in fact.

The primary wounding mechanism for .223 and 5.56 ammunition is fragmentation. The primary factor in fragmentation is velocity. The primary velocity booster is barrel length. 11.5" barrels barely bring milspec (NATO) 55 grain FMJ to 2700 fps (the critical fragmentation threshold for many FMJ .223 rounds). Accordingly, any distance at all drops the rounds below fragmentation velocity. 10" barrels are unlikely to ever get rounds above fragmentation velocity at all.

If you are saddled with a department mandated SBR we recommend the following:

1. A marathon letter writing campaign citing the Ammo Oracle often persuading the powers that be to see reason and potentially save lives by giving you REAL weapons, not toys.

2. Use heavier rounds known to fragment at lower velocities and do more tissue damage such as:

68 grain Hornady Match OTM
69 grain SMK OTM
75 grain Hornady TAP
77 grain Nosler OTM

Obviously, you should probably have a 1:7" twist.

Under no circumstances should you take comfort in the assurances your armorer gives you that the latest soft point or hollow point law enforcement specialty round will solve the problem. Most likely it will not. Soft point and hollow point rounds lack penetration even at high velocity. Because they are not prone to yawing or fragmentation lower velocities will not increase penetration as with many fragmenting rounds.
This is why AR pistols are a bad idea.

Spearo
02-24-2008, 9:47 PM
I have 2 shotties.


Yo yo yo SHOTTY... holla!
Ayeeeeeeeeee:rolleyes:

Mac
02-24-2008, 9:54 PM
....

Linus
02-24-2008, 10:38 PM
Big-5 sale!
http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.com/big5/default.aspx?action=detail&storeid=2504019&rapid=0&listingid=-2092034725&offerid=
CHARLES DALY ‘FIELD TACTICAL’ 12-GAUGE PUMP SHOTGUN
3 DAYS ONLY SPECIAL PRICE! $179
http://akimages.crossmediaservices.com/dyn_li/200.0.88.0/Retailers/Big5SportingGoods/080217_2n3DT_54a.JPG

duenor
02-24-2008, 11:03 PM
You have several very nice choices, despite your residency and age.

Pistols
1. BP pistol with R&D Conversion cylinder. I have an 1858 Rem with a 45LC (blackpowder only, not smokeless) cylinder. Works great. $200 for the BP gun, $150 for the cylinder.
2. legal loophole pistols (family transfer). dont know too much about this other than Ive known people to do it.

Rifles
1. M1 Carbine. highly accurate, good sized 30cal round, compact gun. $600
2. Ruger PC9. ditto above
3. Ruger PC40. ditto above
I chose these rifles for these reasons:
a. affordable
b. large round, limited penetration but will still go through cover.
c. affordable ammo

shotguns
1. benelli m1 s90. ~600$. put a pistol grip on it if you worry about having to open doors.
2. rem 870 or mossberg 590.
2. any old used pump action shotgun. you can get ones for as low as $100.

use any time of BUCKshot.

Solidmch
02-24-2008, 11:35 PM
I have a remington 870 tricked out by scatter tech. However I really enjoy my benelli m4.

aplinker
02-25-2008, 12:33 AM
My statement about recoil with an AR pistol isn't that it's heavy, but rather that (if shot 1-handed as happens in MANY SD situations) its action axis is very far above the grip, causing tons of muzzle climb.

Regardless, it's just a silly choice.

ANY pump 12-ga will do the trick with anything called buckshot.

If you want something with a good reputation: Remington 870 or Mossberg 500/590.

Short that, find a may to get a handgun from your parents or get a Katana like the PS3 kid. If a 14 year old can do it, so can you.




shotguns
1. benelli m1 s90. ~600$. put a pistol grip on it if you worry about having to open doors.
2. rem 870 or mossberg 590.
2. any old used pump action shotgun. you can get ones for as low as $100.

use any time of BUCKshot.

I'll tell you what. If you can find me 10 Benelli M1S90's at $600 I'll buy them all.

Chunky_lover
02-25-2008, 8:28 AM
Big-5 sale!
http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.com/big5/default.aspx?action=detail&storeid=2504019&rapid=0&listingid=-2092034725&offerid=
CHARLES DALY ‘FIELD TACTICAL’ 12-GAUGE PUMP SHOTGUN
3 DAYS ONLY SPECIAL PRICE! $179
http://akimages.crossmediaservices.com/dyn_li/200.0.88.0/Retailers/Big5SportingGoods/080217_2n3DT_54a.JPG

good price might get one today for my mom anyone know if its a good shotgun?

1911su16b870
02-25-2008, 9:56 AM
Home Defense - Remington 870 - shot gun is power and speed
Rifles are power and accuracy
Pistols are what you fight with while extracting yourself to your shotgun or rifle :D

JPglee1
02-25-2008, 10:59 AM
You really need 2500+ for the 5.56 to work properly and fragment. If they can do that, then that's good.. It just doesn't make sense -- muzzle blast and flash would be huge, the pistol recoil axis is HIGH s.

Frag in the 5.56 was found to be an unintended consequence of design...This jackets + deep cannalures =frag....

At 25yds a 55gr will frag at less than 2500 ft/s, and since we're talking HD here, thats about the furthest you'd be away....

As for recoil, shove the buffer into your shoulder, problem solved :D

Ill still take my Mossberg tho, thanks :)



J

Chunky_lover
02-25-2008, 5:34 PM
Okay I just bought the Shotgun from Big 5 the CHARLES DALY ‘FIELD TACTICAL’ and I had to buy a ca legal type of cable lock, even though I have 5 other ones. Or if I had bought one within 30 days and had a receipt for it. Now I remember someone saying you dont need one when transporting a rifle and if that is correct then why do I need one to leave the store. Is it just a store thing because im sick of spending money on trigger locks when buying a gun. 6 years ago when I was buying hand guns I was able to reuse old trigger locks when leaving the store, is this something new. Im just glad it was only $10 and not $20 like the last one I had to get. Its always good to have one for a gun but I have a couple extra so thats why I dont like to be forced to buy another one, what makes the mossberg stamped one or the kimber one I have so bad.

Paradiddle
02-25-2008, 8:26 PM
I should also add to the list a nice little M1 carbine. It's lightweight, easy to maneuver in a tight environment, and loaded with softpoint or hollowpoint loads is a very effective manstopper. As an added bonus if you live in a county that is not so gun friendly and worry about a stupid gun ignorant DA attempting to charge you with assault weapon violation after using an OLL to defend yourself. The M1 carbine will not invoke the wrath of stupid DA's.;)

Then again, I suppose if you live in that type of county your are probably screwed even if you use a BB gun.:banghead:

Beat me to it - I was going to recommend the M1 Carbine. Like a 10/22 on roids to shoot - accurate enough at 100 yards and a plane HOOT to shoot. Very small and light - quick pointing.

Don't tell anyone that the .30 carbine penetrates more then 5.56 though - because they will argue with you all day long! ;)

www.theboxoftruth.com

vinny_land
02-25-2008, 10:04 PM
doesnt the M1 Carbine fire the pistol cartridge? These guns look neat but if they do use a pistol round, i need to be 21.

sloguy
02-26-2008, 7:24 AM
doesnt the M1 Carbine fire the pistol cartridge? These guns look neat but if they do use a pistol round, i need to be 21.

its about the same as 357 mag but a little better penetration even with softpoints.

you dont have to be 21 for the gun. and few places age check you on 30 carbine ammo because very few pistols use it. its commonly known as a rifle round and thats half of its bad reputation. too many people equate it as a full rifle round but it doesnt perform as such. its a heck of a pistol round but its a weak rifle round.

i love my m1 carbine. i just dont like the price of ammo fr it.

Paradiddle
02-26-2008, 10:14 AM
doesnt the M1 Carbine fire the pistol cartridge? These guns look neat but if they do use a pistol round, i need to be 21.

30 caliber carbine is a intermediate rifle round.

Go to www.theboxoftruth.com for many interesting tests on penetration and bullet damage.

PS - I've found 30 carbine cheaper then .223 recently! Never believe the internet with regards to this rifle.

mymonkeyman
02-26-2008, 11:13 AM
Okay I just bought the Shotgun from Big 5 the CHARLES DALY ‘FIELD TACTICAL’ and I had to buy a ca legal type of cable lock, even though I have 5 other ones. Or if I had bought one within 30 days and had a receipt for it. Now I remember someone saying you dont need one when transporting a rifle and if that is correct then why do I need one to leave the store. Is it just a store thing because im sick of spending money on trigger locks when buying a gun. 6 years ago when I was buying hand guns I was able to reuse old trigger locks when leaving the store, is this something new. Im just glad it was only $10 and not $20 like the last one I had to get. Its always good to have one for a gun but I have a couple extra so thats why I dont like to be forced to buy another one, what makes the mossberg stamped one or the kimber one I have so bad.

For longguns, it's a CA law thing. It requires that you either have a safe (and sign the safe affidavit) or buy a trigger lock at sale or present a receipt for a new lock bought w/in 30 days prior to pickup.