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View Full Version : Is there a way to make on on list AK california legal?


dotchoy
02-21-2008, 2:31 PM
Is ok to swap out a on list reciever for a off list one. Or is there more to it.

leelaw
02-21-2008, 2:34 PM
There is a lot involved in swapping out receivers on an AK variant.

It'd be easier to buy a new one, and make sure that it is built in compliance of the feature ban

BaronW
02-21-2008, 2:36 PM
If it's on the list and you didn't register it when the window was open, that receiver is verboten, period.

bwiese
02-21-2008, 3:34 PM
There is a valid defense for possession of a listed stripped *receiver* that is not an operational firearm.

This does not erase the prior crime of illegal AW ownership, but if person has a lawyer and STFU, it significantly raised burden of proof.

Someone illegally possessing an unreg'd 'listed' AW should immediately strip it down to receiver - then contact a lawyer to arrange for surrender of it to an LE agency.

THERE IS NO WAY TO MODIFY A GUN WITH A "LISTED" RECEIVER INTO A LEGAL (non-A.W.) FIREARM - other than destroying that receiver and replacing with a non-listed receiver, with appropriate configured features suite. (Depending on the gun this is often more trouble than it's worth - AKs)

hitman13
02-21-2008, 3:39 PM
yes you can, in just 5 easy steps!!!

1. move out of state
2. wait 6 months or so
3. join the military
4. get stationed in california
5. get military permit


or just buy a new AK!!!!

dotchoy
02-21-2008, 3:50 PM
There is a valid defense for possession of a listed stripped *receiver* that is not an operational firearm.

This does not erase the prior crime of illegal AW ownership, but if person has a lawyer and STFU, it significantly raised burden of proof.

Someone illegally possessing an unreg'd 'listed' AW should immediately strip it down to receiver - then contact a lawyer to arrange for surrender of it to an LE agency.

THERE IS NO WAY TO MODIFY A GUN WITH A "LISTED" RECEIVER INTO A LEGAL (non-A.W.) FIREARM - other than destroying that receiver and replacing with a non-listed receiver, with appropriate configured features suite. (Depending on the gun this is often more trouble than it's worth - AKs)

So if the gun is already chopped it's ok to use the parts from it to build on a new off list reciver. Right??? Even though it's a pain in the Butt.

JHC
02-21-2008, 3:57 PM
So if the gun is already chopped it's ok to use the parts from it to build on a new off list reciver. Right??? Even though it's a pain in the Butt.


Parts is parts and they have not been banned, just the sheetmetal receiver is evil, you can build your parts into a new MAK90 on a GT receiver.

jamesob
02-21-2008, 4:06 PM
there is a company that converts on list rifles to a fixed ten round and they come with a letter from doj saying they are o.k to have. but im not sure if they do private conversions or not. im not even sure they are in business anymore.

CaptMike
02-21-2008, 4:39 PM
Right before the ban went in to effect here in California, I sent all of my listed weapons to out of state family for storage. When I found this website and found out about the OLL info, I immediately purchased new legal lowers for my rifles. I took a drive to visit my "Family" (my guns) and stripped them down and brought all the parts back to California minus the unregistered receivers. The receivers are staying in a box out of state but the rest of the parts came home with me. I now have assembled two friends with new legal receivers her in california, taking into account all of the restrictions. Now I can finally use my 22 AR 30 round mags that have been in the basement. I will soon be able to use my 6 30 round AK mags and the 75 round drum that was in the same box with the are mags. got to love Calguns.

I would recommend against bringing any of the banned recievers in to the state because you are risking legal problems. If they are already here, dissassemble immediately and follow the info others have given you already. Good luck and enjoy

cessna182k
02-21-2008, 5:30 PM
Is there anything wrong with possessing the remnants of a listed receiver that was destroyed (cut into multiple pieces) before the ban took effect, or is there an obligation to turn it in to LE?

PolishMike
02-21-2008, 5:32 PM
Is there anything wrong with possessing the remnants of a listed receiver that was destroyed (cut into multiple pieces) before the ban took effect, or is there an obligation to turn it in to LE?

I THINK if its cut to BATFE standards its no longer considered a receiver.

pc_city
02-21-2008, 7:29 PM
Is there a way to make an on list AK california legal?
Have you tried kissing Iggy on the lips?:eek:

BillCA
02-21-2008, 8:18 PM
:puke:

Originally Posted by pc_city
Have you tried kissing Iggy on the lips?:eek:



:kiss: + :iggy: = :puke:

Would you rather have to kiss him somewhere else? :shock:

bwiese
02-21-2008, 8:18 PM
yes you can, in just 5 easy steps!!!
1. move out of state
2. wait 6 months or so
3. join the military
4. get stationed in california
5. get military permit


No, because since it was already an illegal AW, you just added a "transportation" charge to a simple illegal possession charge, digging yourself further in the hole.

bwiese
02-21-2008, 8:22 PM
there is a company that converts on list rifles to a fixed ten round and they come with a letter from doj saying they are o.k to have. but im not sure if they do private conversions or not. im not even sure they are in business anymore.

This is the Evan's Gunsmithing/GBSales fiasco - well, really yet-another-Iggy-fiasco - and I don't believe they're doing this anymore; they're just welding up OLLs these days.

Iggy's accidental approval of listed guns that were welded up - mentioning taking something out of "series status" despite names (and after Harrott) - was laughable, and resulted in a 4+ hr disaster remediation meeting at DOJ in late November 2006.

In addition, this was with list rifles that Evan's legally imported due to their AW permit. They could not (and would not, as a matter of law as well as preference) work on an illegal listed rifle; no CA AW permittee will touch an unregistered illegal AW.

bwiese
02-21-2008, 8:25 PM
So if the gun is already chopped it's ok to use the parts from it to build on a new off list reciver. Right??? Even though it's a pain in the Butt.

Yeah. Just make sure it's legal in other aspects (16" bbl min length, no full auto parts, and not configured into an AW).

CALI-gula
02-21-2008, 9:35 PM
This is the Evan's Gunsmithing/GBSales fiasco - well, really yet-another-Iggy-fiasco - and I don't believe they're doing this anymore; they're just welding up OLLs these days.

Iggy's accidental approval of listed guns that were welded up - mentioning taking something out of "series status" despite names (and after Harrott) - was laughable, and resulted in a 4+ hr disaster remediation meeting at DOJ in late November 2006.

In addition, this was with list rifles that Evan's legally imported due to their AW permit. They could not (and would not, as a matter of law as well as preference) work on an illegal listed rifle; no CA AW permittee will touch an unregistered illegal AW.

I was reading through this thread, and wondering form the very first post, just when the conversation would get around to Evan's Gunsmithing and Mr. Chinn. :D

.

dotchoy
02-21-2008, 9:37 PM
Yeah. Just make sure it's legal in other aspects (16" bbl min length, no full auto parts, and not configured into an AW).

Thanks bwiese your always the man when it comes to these types of issues.

AJAX22
02-21-2008, 10:00 PM
Just a thought,

But doesn't the ban list specify that the guns on the list all be semi auto?

If they are not configured as semi automatic guns can the argument be made that they are not in fact banned?

12276. As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the following designated semiautomatic firearms:

bohoki
02-21-2008, 10:08 PM
no the reciever is the listed item so you cannot do what you pose in the subject title

why don't poeple just use screws to bolt on the trunions some locktite and allenhead round head screws would look great

hmm does anybody know if welding the trunnion makes it one piece (for the 10 parts rule)

hitman13
02-21-2008, 10:29 PM
No, because since it was already an illegal AW, you just added a "transportation" charge to a simple illegal possession charge, digging yourself further in the hole.

i was kidding:rolleyes:

trinydex
02-22-2008, 5:03 PM
Now I can finally use my 22 AR 30 round mags that have been in the basement. I will soon be able to use my 6 30 round AK mags and the 75 round drum that was in the same box with the are mags. got to love Calguns.
i seem to be the only one confused about this...

motorhead
02-22-2008, 6:54 PM
the correct method of turning an unregistered listed reciever legal is by making (4), 1/4" torch cuts through the center.

Builder
02-22-2008, 7:12 PM
why don't poeple just use screws to bolt on the trunions some locktite and allenhead round head screws would look great
It works for a while until the recoil forces causing shear across the screws overcomes the clamping force of the screws. Either the receiver holes elongate or the screws are damaged.
hmm does anybody know if welding the trunnion makes it one piece (for the 10 parts rule)TIG welding works quite well in building an AK from a parts kit and a receiver. Welding does not change the parts count. How they are fixated together does not change the fact that the parts are still there.
Thanks,
Builder

CaptMike
02-23-2008, 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtMike70
Now I can finally use my 22 AR 30 round mags that have been in the basement. I will soon be able to use my 6 30 round AK mags and the 75 round drum that was in the same box with the are mags. got to love Calguns.

i seem to be the only one confused about this...

Just to clarify. I configured my AR rifles using the MonsterMan Grips with no other illegal parts. I had a quantity of 30 round magazines, that I purchased back in the late 80's before the ban, saved in boxes in the basement. The magazines are standard 30 round magazines in 5.56. The total quantity of magazines was 22. I also have one 40 rounder mag. I also had a quantity of AK rifle magazines for the 7.62x39 cartridge. They included several 30 round magazines and one 75 round drum magazine. I sent my rifles out of state, but I kept my magazines in the state, just in case. It finally paid off because now I can legally use all of my old magazines in my new legally configured OLL rifles. Hope that clears it up for you.

trinydex
02-23-2008, 1:44 AM
i thought it didn't matter if they were preban or not... nothing in ca can have greater than 10 round capacity. but maybe i'm confused...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=296199

sorry i was indeed confused. but this thread has confused me further... how do you prove how many preban mags you had before 2000?

motorhead
02-23-2008, 3:02 AM
you don't have to. just no new ones to be sold. of course repair parts for existing are ok. mmg eliminates the pistol grip, essetially making your ak a saiga. me likee. now if i can just figure out where to put my thumb. monsterman should consider a thumbrest, that would be sooo cool.

trinydex
02-23-2008, 3:09 AM
if you don't have to then what's preventing me from buying some preban magazines and alleging that i've had them all along and then put 'em on my "safe" ak?

JHC
02-23-2008, 6:25 AM
if you don't have to then what's preventing me from buying some preban magazines and alleging that i've had them all along and then put 'em on my "safe" ak?

The law prevents you from doing that, you are a law abiding citizen right?
Bringing in a full-cap mag that you didn't have prior to 2k could result in a felony and felons cant have guns, who would risk their rights over some extra rounds?

trinydex
02-23-2008, 2:14 PM
doesn't it just seem so arbitrary though? how would they even make a case against you? if the mags are serialized to be preban and they're obviously not new how can anyone tell the difference who orginally owned them? i'm just so confused at how unrigorous this area of the gun ban is... but then again they don't even specify what high capacity consists of.

elSquid
02-23-2008, 3:24 PM
doesn't it just seem so arbitrary though? how would they even make a case against you? if the mags are serialized to be preban and they're obviously not new how can anyone tell the difference who orginally owned them? i'm just so confused at how unrigorous this area of the gun ban is... but then again they don't even specify what high capacity consists of.

Yes, it's a dumb law. And it would be hard to prosecute. However, it's still the law, so be smart and respect it.

-- Michael

Max-the-Silent
02-23-2008, 3:27 PM
Is ok to swap out a on list reciever for a off list one. Or is there more to it.

You'd end up spending a significant amount of money iover and above what a new compliant AK would cost.

Strip and surrender the piece in question, or better yet remove it from the state.

bwiese
02-23-2008, 3:28 PM
doesn't it just seem so arbitrary though? how would they even make a case against you? if the mags are serialized to be preban and they're obviously not new how can anyone tell the difference who orginally owned them? i'm just so confused at how unrigorous this area of the gun ban is... but then again they don't even specify what high capacity consists of.

It IS arbitrary. Please do not expect rationality or thought in CA's gun laws. These laws were designed as a political attack on our ilk.

'High capacity ammunition feeding devices' are indeed defined as those holding over 10 rounds. (There are exemptions for .22cal tube magazines, and tube magazines for lever-action guns.)

This is in no way a recommedation for illegal conduct. Burden of proof is on the prosecution.

Hicap mag cases are incredibly difficult to prove except for when the defendant is stupid, verbal and doesn't have a lawyer.

The hicap mag law has to allow possession, because hicap mags you acquired in CA anytime before 2000 (even if you moved out of CA) are legal.

It's also legal to repair legal hicap mags with parts that may indeed give the mag a new appearance - so even a date code on a mag tube is irrelevant, and mags are not serialized since manufacturing tradition treats them as near-disposable/ consumable items. They are essentially uncontrollable in CA: possession of a hicap mag does not indicate illegal conduct.

The only people getting popped for hicap mags are the idiots who bought one an an outta state gunshow, were observed transporting back into CA, and then got popped. (This *has* happened, though I believe it was also assoc. w/AW violations.) Other bad behavior with hicap would be to have the mags on your VISA card bill, or having a hicap mag for a gun that didn't exist or was not sold/in production reasonably before 2000.

The other risk area for hicap mags is if people use them as fixed mags in a fixed-mag semiauto centerfire rifle. This triggers the secondary definition of generic AW; a semiauto centerfire rifle with fixed mag must have a fixed mag that holds 10rds or less.