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View Full Version : Has anyone been checked for 922R compliance?


hoax
02-19-2008, 10:19 PM
Just wondering. Seems like a lot of hoops to jump through when I haven't heard on anyone being checked for it.

Not that I'm suggesting in any way that anyone here should not follow the exact letter of the law.

SemiAutoSam
02-19-2008, 10:42 PM
All of my Imported Rifles are pre 1989 so they aren't required to be fitted with those 7 or 10 US made parts.

Pryde
02-19-2008, 11:01 PM
AFAIK, people who get busted for 922(r) as an add-on charge for when they get busted for something else. Say your house gets raided for drugs and in addition to the pound of cocaine they find in your closet, they find your legally owned AK47. Upon closer inspection of your AK (after they send it into evidence) they find that it lacks enough US parts to be compliant with 922(r).

Now in addition to your cocaine charges, you are also stuck with a 922(r) charge.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I read awhile back on another forum that nobody has ever been busted for 922(r) alone in the US.

five.five-six
02-19-2008, 11:04 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I read awhile back on another forum that nobody has ever been busted for 922(r) alone in the US.

yet, but they are coming for us

hoffmang
02-19-2008, 11:06 PM
I'd really be interested in any actual 922(r) charges - even enhancers to other criminal activity - who weren't dealers or importers.

It's not clear to me that ATF actually has the authority to enforce that law on non dealers or manufacturers.

-Gene

oaklander
02-19-2008, 11:07 PM
I haven't heard of any busts, but it's obviously better to stay within the law. Not only that, but when building a rifle from a kit, certain parts *should* be replaced anyways.

For example, AK triggers are notoriously slappy (they have trigger slap), so replacing the FCG is 3 parts right there. Often people find that the buttstock is too short, so that's another part there. If people weren't lucky enough to have pre-bans, they can get new American mags (that's three parts right there).

In sum, it's pretty easy to get up to the required number of parts.

AK's need six U.S. parts. If there's no PG, then they only need five. FAL's need 7 as I recall. It's not the number of U.S. parts that 922(r) regulates - it's the number of foreign parts.

AFAIK, people who get busted for 922(r) as an add-on charge for when they get busted for something else. Say your house gets raided for drugs and in addition to the pound of cocaine they find in your closet, they find your legally owned AK47. Upon closer inspection of your AK (after they send it into evidence) they find that it lacks enough US parts to be compliant with 922(r).

Now in addition to your cocaine charges, you are also stuck with a 922(r) charge.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I read awhile back on another forum that nobody has ever been busted for 922(r) alone in the US.

mymonkeyman
02-19-2008, 11:18 PM
I've searched the legal databases and was unable to find a single 922(r) case that resulted in some electronically indexed opinion. That doesn't mean someone didn't cop a plea to it, or that it even went to a jury trial (but it is unlikely). I did find a civil administrative law case where the ATF pulled someone's FFL over 922(r) violations. I doubt they would every bring a 922(r) case all the way to trial, because there are significant due process and administrative law concerns with the "sporting" classification and 922(r). Also, it'd be extremely hard to prove. I think the BATF only really cares about enforcing it against people who modify guns en masse.

That being said, it's still the (stupid) law.

mymonkeyman
02-19-2008, 11:20 PM
I'd really be interested in any actual 922(r) charges - even enhancers to other criminal activity - who weren't dealers or importers.

It's not clear to me that ATF actually has the authority to enforce that law on non dealers or manufacturers.

-Gene

It's a criminal case, so it gets enforced by the DOJ or the local US Attorney's office. The ATF may act as the police in the case (rather than the FBI). The big thing is that the ATF has rulemaking authority over firearms so their interpretation gets deference in a court proceeding. Good luck actually figuring out what the ATF has decided in any sensible way. They don't publish regulations that says X is sporting or X is not sporting.

hoffmang
02-19-2008, 11:36 PM
mymonkey,

I was a bit imprecise. My point was simply that I don't think that the interpretation that 922(r) is enforceable against non FFLs is correct. However, as I am reviewing the US Code I'm disagreeing with my own prior interpretation. 922(r) does on its face state "any person."

Talk about something ripe for challenge post Heller in DC.

-Gene

Ford8N
02-20-2008, 4:35 AM
I've also seen the point that some US parts are not marked "US" and are identical and perfect copies of the foreign part. And if you get down to "molecular grain" markers of foreign steel, I would bet that 99.9% of US parts are made with foreign made steel. I have seen US floor plates that are perfect copies compared to foreign made, side by side. I too think 922r is wide open for a challenge. And I've been watching these gun boards for years and have heard of no one getting checked just for 922r. If you are getting hassled for 922r, I would bet the Man is on you for far worse things.

saki302
02-20-2008, 4:35 AM
Don;t quote me on this, but I remember someone mentioning the possession of a non-922r compliant weapon is not illegal, but the act of creating a non-compliant weapon is. So if you bought a non compliant weapon, the violation would be on the guy you bought it from (or who presumably did the illegal modding).

I could be wrong, but I remember this coming up in a discussion a few years back.

The main thing as another poster said is, by the time you get an AK to the point you're happy with it, it will likely be compliant anyways :)
The new US triggers are light years ahead of the foreign parts.
The FAL on the other hand- it took me a whole evening with the stones to get my US made trigger/hammer/sear to feel as good as the basic military unit (on my DSA built Imbel pre-00 regged AW).

-Dave

hoax
02-20-2008, 6:31 AM
You guys confirmed what I had been thinking.

I just can't see a law enforcement agency or a DA sitting down with a rifle and trying to figure out the country of origin for all the parts.

hoax
02-20-2008, 6:33 AM
Don;t quote me on this, but I remember someone mentioning the possession of a non-922r compliant weapon is not illegal, but the act of creating a non-compliant weapon is. So if you bought a non compliant weapon, the violation would be on the guy you bought it from (or who presumably did the illegal modding).

So all you would have to say is that you "bought it that way"? Thats pretty easy to do, especially if you bought the firearm from out of state.

And especially if your SKS came from a vendor that has since been shut down for selling illegally configured rifles. Hrmmmmmmmm!!!!!

TonyM
02-20-2008, 7:40 AM
As always, CYA.

Just because you never know what's coming next, I keep all my invoices for the parts to my builds. They go in the same file in my safe as my DROS paperwork and invoices for my guns.

It's really no big deal to keep the paperwork, but would be a big deal if you had to one day present proof.