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View Full Version : talk me out / into a 223 rig


Exodus343
12-21-2013, 10:44 PM
I currently own a 308
and for some weird reason, I get this idea that I should get a 223 rig...

must be one of those days :rolleyes:

frt96
12-22-2013, 7:05 AM
Lots of cheap fun. I can hit golf balls @200yds with mine. I have a cheapo stevens 200 with a nikon buckmaster 4.5X14. If you like varmit hunting, they are a great rig for that also.

SMarquez
12-22-2013, 7:17 AM
Do it. Mossberg Varminters look nice. I thought I saw one on closeout at Turners.

Yerman
12-22-2013, 7:19 AM
Are you set on a bolt gun? How about a varmint ar in 223

kentactic
12-22-2013, 7:26 AM
Dosent the ruger scout come in .223 or .308...

mark501w
12-22-2013, 7:26 AM
Fun guns for a little more powder you get a lot more performance ,.22/250.

CobraRed
12-22-2013, 7:51 AM
I dont see the point. If you already have ammo or reloading stuff for .308, switching to .223 isn't really cheaper. It doesn't do anything better except maybe less recoil if you want it.

Save for a proper 6.5 rig, imo.

However, if you want to plink, i like the idea. Sometimes it's nice not to try to shoot precision all the time. Maybe try palma sights?

RuggedJay
12-22-2013, 8:02 AM
Cheaper components, cheaper to load rounds since you don't use so much powder, cheaper bullets, primers, less recoil. Why not?

toby
12-22-2013, 8:13 AM
I can already see where this thread will go. No No No! what you really need is a Rossi Circuit Judge revolver rifle...:eek:

CobraRed
12-22-2013, 8:16 AM
Cheaper components, cheaper to load rounds since you don't use so much powder, cheaper bullets, primers, less recoil. Why not?

Having to pay hazmat/shipping on new/different primers and powder then dies if you can even find them doesn't really bring "saving money" to mind.

Plus case prep on .223 kills me.

Exodus343
12-22-2013, 8:18 AM
Yeah I just want to have another caliber to precision shoot with, and this is going to be a bolt rig
I do plan on getting a 6.5 creedmoor but I'm waiting for my 308 barrel to be burned out....

Iloveguns
12-22-2013, 8:43 AM
I would wait if I was you. I guarantee you will rebarrel your 308 before its "shot out"!! How much range time has your 308 seen?

Exodus343
12-22-2013, 8:47 AM
Ever since I got it set up it's seen at least 700 rounds
Almost at 800 lol

Divernhunter
12-22-2013, 9:50 AM
A 223 is nice to have and goes well with the 308. BTW I use the same powder for both.
I do not understand why someone would be concerned about more reloading stuff. I load for 35+ different cartridges and if I was not on a small disablity income it would be more. That is one of the points about reloading.
I have several 308 and 223 rifles. I have worn out a barrel on a 223 shooting mostly ground squirrels. I would not use any of my 308's for that on a steady bais for a number of reasons.

Get one and you will enjoy it.

Exodus343
12-22-2013, 10:05 AM
yeah I just realized I could use the money on a new rig to perfect my 308 reloading equipment

I still need:
Typs S redding Dies (no idea which one, FL or Neck sizing)
Hornady Concentricity Gauge
most likely I'll go green on my press too :rolleyes:

89 Vision
12-22-2013, 10:55 AM
I had that itch awhile back. I scratched it by getting an H&R Handi Rifle, single shot in .223. The previous owner had it professionally free-floated and glass bedded. It was a nice cheap way to go, and now I no longer itch.

mjmagee67
12-22-2013, 11:00 AM
Gawd if you need talked into it then you don't want one.

russ69
12-22-2013, 12:14 PM
A 223 bolt is a fun rifle. I shoot the 55 grain Blitzking and it shoots nice groups. I have one heavy barrel and one light weight. My light weight is a Ruger stainless M77 MKII with a trigger job and a 12 power scope. Wow, it shoots really good as do most 223s. Just about everybody makes a 223 rifle so you can buy the brand you like. It's fun shooting little groups with a sporter weight rifle.

Exodus343
12-22-2013, 12:55 PM
Reason I am on the fence is the start up: rifle, glass, stock, reloading dies, etc etc

I want one to practice fundamentals with and to bring new shooters in
Not to mention it'll be much cheaper to load for it

bitethebullet
12-22-2013, 2:20 PM
Get an Axis or Ruger American...The Axis can be had scoped...buy some dies, use same powder, and have some fun. On a few occasions, I'll load my axis with some 70 vld's and go out to 500-600 yards...the idea is to work on the fundamentals of shooting without burning extra dough shooting the .308 all the time

Jet Setter
12-22-2013, 2:22 PM
Stick to your .308. 223 is just not cheap enough to be worth it - if you already don't have a set up.

smittty
12-22-2013, 5:26 PM
I have a very accurate 223 MVP Predator which I'd rather shoot than my 308. I probably would have been content just having the 223.

bluegoose95401
12-22-2013, 5:43 PM
one of my all time favorite guns to shoot is the mini 14 i have shot tons of them and have never shot one i dint like. the newer ones are a lot more accurate then the old ones ( out of the box) but have higher gas pressure so it will throw your spent cases really far. that can be fixed with a gas bushing set from great west gun smithing or an adjustable gas block just my .02

Exodus343
12-22-2013, 5:45 PM
I'm speaking strictly
On a bolt action platform
Semi auto 5.56/223 just don't appeal like they do to other younglings my age

vliberatore
12-22-2013, 5:59 PM
Are you planning on using this only for precision shooting?

Area 52
12-22-2013, 6:00 PM
I will second a Mini 14. Big 5 has them on sale in SoCal at least this week for $739.99. I know you said bolt gun, but I enjoy the heck out of mine. An Accu-strut, a tighter fitting synthetic stock, and a low magnification scope will give you a very versatile and fun rifle for a good price. Minis aren't designed to drive tacks but a new production one with the mentioned mods will be at least as accurate as an out-of-the-box AR.

1859sharps
12-22-2013, 6:12 PM
I currently own a 308
and for some weird reason, I get this idea that I should get a 223 rig...

must be one of those days :rolleyes:

argument for.... do you have the money to afford a new rifle cash? If yes, go forth and buy one.

argument against....do you have the money to afford new rifle cash? If no, start saving or just accept that you don't have one and can't afford it at this time.

For me, at the end of the day when it comes to guns that is really all that matters. can you afford it..if yes, go buy it. If you can't, just keep walking on so to speak.

why? because curiosity is a valid reason as any. aka, I want to try out a 223 rifle etc. if you find you don't use it, don't like it etc, you can always sell it.

So, that really brings it back to...can you or can't you afford it cash. if yes, go buy one. if not, start saving or forget about it.

my 2 cents for what it's worth.

should note, I do put more thought into what gun I buy than it would seem by my above comments. Am I currently shooting enough to justify the purchase, would I use it, what would I use it for etc, etc. but when all those other logical and reasoned out pro's and con's are considered...it really (at least for me) comes down to can I or can't I afford it.

dangerranger
12-22-2013, 6:31 PM
Why? Because a 308 makes a mess of a bobcat! I have several caliber hunting rifles, Because each fills a need. DR

Exodus343
12-22-2013, 6:38 PM
Are you planning on using this only for precision shooting?

yup...
that's why I'm kinda learning towards a 6.5 creedmoor
idk man I can't make up my mind
I'm so freaking indecisive

vliberatore
12-22-2013, 6:40 PM
yup...
that's why I'm kinda learning towards a 6.5 creedmoor
idk man I can't make up my mind
I'm so freaking indecisive

That's probably the route I'd go then. I'm not too familiar with the caliber in terms of recoil (for the new shooters you mentioned) but that would accent the .308 nicely if you did the build right.

Exodus343
12-22-2013, 6:43 PM
That's probably the route I'd go then. I'm not too familiar with the caliber in terms of recoil (for the new shooters you mentioned) but that would accent the .308 nicely if you did the build right.

yeah I guess new shooters will just have to buy their own guns LOL

;)

ERdept
12-22-2013, 6:48 PM
Answer:

243


Carries much further than 223, buck wind better than 308. 223 cannot hunt deer in many states. Illegal.


243, like the 270, shoot flatter than it's parent cartridge, the 308, and 30-06 respectively.


Can kill Varmints to deer. 69 grains to 110.

jarhead714
12-22-2013, 6:49 PM
Stick to your .308. 223 is just not cheap enough to be worth it - if you already don't have a set up.

I got back into shooting .223 because I thought I'd save money over feeding my M1A but it's not really working out. Now I use it between .308 sessions to take a "break" but still keep on shooting. You know?

Exodus343
12-22-2013, 7:57 PM
Answer:

243


Carries much further than 223, buck wind better than 308. 223 cannot hunt deer in many states. Illegal.


243, like the 270, shoot flatter than it's parent cartridge, the 308, and 30-06 respectively.


Can kill Varmints to deer. 69 grains to 110.

dat barrel life kills the deal :(

bitethebullet
12-22-2013, 8:41 PM
Saving roughly $0.30 a round vs .308 has me shooting a practicing with .223 more often...depending on how expensive the setup you want, you would have to shoot around 1000-2000 rounds to get close to breaking even...I don't look at the initial rifle purchase as part of the equation though..just an excuse to tell my wife I'm gonna save some money... ;)

Bungi
12-22-2013, 8:44 PM
Take look at the Ruger M77 "Predator" in 223. The reviews say this rifle is extremely accurate and I love the look.

Some don't like the green/brown laminated stock, but I think it looks great.

Exodus343
12-22-2013, 8:47 PM
Take look at the Ruger M77 "Predator" in 223. The reviews say this rifle is extremely accurate and I love the look.

Some don't like the green/brown laminated stock, but I think it looks great.

yeah I was actually looking at that rifle
cept in 6.5 creedmoor :rolleyes:

bluegoose95401
12-22-2013, 9:24 PM
I'm speaking strictly
On a bolt action platform
Semi auto 5.56/223 just don't appeal like they do to other younglings my age

ya i understand that i do enjoy the bolt action. one thing that you can do with a mini is get the adjustable gas block and turn off the gas pressure to it making it a non semi auto "bolt action" as some would call it. as for a strictly bolt action im not sure that .223 would be the way i would go there are so many other calibers that are much more interesting to use in a bolt only gun

milotrain
12-22-2013, 9:34 PM
What about a 30BR? You can run lighter bullets than you run in the .308, less recoil, doesn't burn up barrels and you use the same powder as you use in the .308. You can also run the light 30BR bullets in the .308 if you feel like it.

I really like the 6BR, but none of the components cross over, but also not a barrel burner.

gorenut
12-22-2013, 10:55 PM
Besides cheaper ammo.. a big reason why a bolt action in 223 would appeal to me is if you never intend to shoot past 600 yards and mostly around 300 yards. 223 would allow you to practice dealing with windage, etc at a closer range vs something like a 308.

Also the reality of it is.. majority of the shooters I know in CA don't hunt. So having a bigger caliber would mostly be just for fun (I love shooting big bullets or higher recoil rounds).

toby
12-23-2013, 4:34 AM
Beware of the man with only one caliber of rifle.

ar15barrels
12-23-2013, 8:06 PM
dat barrel life kills the deal :(

Lower bullet costs of 6mm cartridges make the cost-of-use about identical between 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges.
6mm's wear out barrels faster, but recoil less.
6.5mm's last longer and recoil more.
Pick your poison...

Exodus343
12-23-2013, 8:15 PM
6.5 creedmoor It is!
Now I just need to wait til I need to rebarrel

ar15barrels
12-23-2013, 8:49 PM
6.5 creedmoor It is!
Now I just need to wait til I need to rebarrel

You don't HAVE to wear out the 308 barrel before you rebuild the gun.
I have rebuilt LOTS of rifles with only 300-500 rounds through the original 308 barrel.
Just get a PTG one piece 0.703" diameter bolt and a barrel blank ordered so you are ready once they come in...

Pete1979
12-23-2013, 9:47 PM
The biggest problem with .223 bolt guns is that they are handicapped by the twist rate, it's hard to find one with a twist faster than 1/9. I bought a Howa 1500 varmint a few years ago cheap, I didn't realize at the time it was a 1/12...
I still love to shoot it, 52-53gr bullets go into little ragged hole groups a bit over 1/2 moa consistently and you can shoot it all day long.



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Exodus343
12-23-2013, 9:57 PM
You don't HAVE to wear out the 308 barrel before you rebuild the gun.
I have rebuilt LOTS of rifles with only 300-500 rounds through the original 308 barrel.
Just get a PTG one piece 0.703" diameter bolt and a barrel blank ordered so you are ready once they come in...

that is very true
I do feel I can still learn lots from the 308 before I DO decide to rebarrel into a different caliber and experiment

However, another part of me just wants a cleaner/better 308 barrel lol

jetman624
12-24-2013, 12:17 AM
I have a 700P in .223 and probably would not go that route again. IMO, the only thing a .223 bolt gun really has going for it is that it is cheap to shoot.

It is hard to find one that has barrel twist that will shoot the 75gr+ bullets, but even if you do, you pretty quickly become limited by case capacity. And of course most of these heavier rounds would have to be single shot unless you want to eat up MORE case capacity stuffing the bullet in there to get it to feed from a mag.

I would save the money and shoot the .308 more, or put it towards the parts like Randal said for an upgrade.

mark501w
12-24-2013, 7:55 AM
Accurate economical real squirrel & coyote killers If your looking for a .222 type varmint gun there great.

JMP
12-24-2013, 8:55 AM
I want one to practice fundamentals with and to bring new shooters in
Yes, this is a good idea. I do not think you can afford NOT to own a .223. I have a 700 in .223 that I shoot all the time...it can be very challenging to shoot in the wind.

As far as new shooters...well, I consider the .308 a fluff round, so if they can't learn on that, they may not be worth the effort to teach. ;)

vincewarde
12-24-2013, 1:21 PM
The biggest problem with .223 bolt guns is that they are handicapped by the twist rate, it's hard to find one with a twist faster than 1/9. I bought a Howa 1500 varmint a few years ago cheap, I didn't realize at the time it was a 1/12...
I still love to shoot it, 52-53gr bullets go into little ragged hole groups a bit over 1/2 moa consistently and you can shoot it all day long.

Yep - that's the biggest problem with my Rem. 788 in .223.


As for cost of ammo, in the past I have found I can reload quality .233/5.56 for about the same cost as a .17 HMR. Needless to say, I would rather shoot a .223.