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GJJ
02-13-2008, 1:34 PM
I got my sister into shooting about 2 years ago. She bought a Glock 17. She shoots it about once a month and is starting to get proficient. She is a typical female - small and not a die hard gun enthusiast.

She would like to also own a rifle for fun and for the rare possibility of a Katrina like scenario. We all know a rifle is better than a handgun if things ugly.

Unfortunately, she lives in Cali.

Which rifle would you pick?

ViPER395
02-13-2008, 1:36 PM
I'm assuming this is excluding rimfire rifles?

.223
02-13-2008, 1:37 PM
AK74 for simplicity and cheap ammo, some form of AR, or maybe a Mini 14.

Jicko
02-13-2008, 1:40 PM
If you read thru a lot of first hand experience from Katrina...... a handgun is *better* than a rifle, in their opinions....

My girl love her 24" varmint heavy bull barrelled AR. Almost ZERO recoil/muzzle flip, and dead accurate.

But that probably isn't the best SHTF rifle. Yet, with her knowing the ins and outs of an AR.... it would be easy to equipe her with a different upper and she would be good to go.

Fobjoe
02-13-2008, 1:46 PM
Always have to support the Saiga. Due to ammo prices and recoil, .223 or 7.62x39 would be good for first time shooters. Has detachable mag for SHTF, it's cheap (for now), utterly reliable. Only downside is the FUD. Don't be a victim like I almost was. Plus no issues using steel cased ammo which is still pretty cheap

ViPER395
02-13-2008, 1:49 PM
I'd go for a Mini-14. Maybe a KelTec SU-16, though i'm not a fan.

I don't think a first timer should get an AR or other neutered rifle for their first. I'm biased though, as I don't see why anyone would want an AR in CA.

Bucc
02-13-2008, 1:49 PM
I'll agree first choice in an AR second an AK maybe one in 5.54X39.
I would skip the Ruger especially if she might not stay here.
Why have a rifle you can't get high quality magaziness for?

ViPER395
02-13-2008, 1:53 PM
Why have a rifle you can't get high quality magaziness for?

Are you kidding me?

There is so much disinformation and rumour bashing the Ruger Mini platform that it disgusts me.

Iknownot
02-13-2008, 1:53 PM
Have you taken her rifle shooting? Did she like one caliber over another or one type of rifle over another? There are so many different types.

If you wanted to be nice to her and she doesn't have much experience, you're probably better off staying with smaller calibers and smaller sized rifles.

.223 in something simple like a K-T SU-16 or a M1 Carbine, both rifles that are on the lighter side of things with minimal recoil. There are also several lever guns in pistol calibers, not to mention a few pistol caliber semi auto carbines (ruger PC 9 or Marlin Camp Carbine) that could be good choices too, depending on what she was interested in.

River Jack
02-13-2008, 1:59 PM
SKS all the way. They are sweet looking battle rifles, are relatively inexpensive to buy, eat cheap ammo, are easy to maintain & clean, and are powerful but not so much that it is unpleasant to shoot; great guns in my opinion. I recommend getting a Russian, my favorite, as most have a chrome-lined barrel. They are also the more collectible of the bunch, therefore will command a somewhat higher price. If you want a cheaper end SKS, get the Yugo (CA legal model w/o the grenade launcher of course) or a Chinese.

At any rate, you can't go too wrong with an SKS.

Iknownot
02-13-2008, 2:05 PM
You really think recommending an almost 9 lb rifle for a first time shooter is a good idea? I don't think they are going to have as much fun with an SKS compared to something light.

And recoil on an SKS is not slight, either.

moulton
02-13-2008, 2:07 PM
SKS all the way. They are sweet looking battle rifles, are relatively inexpensive to buy, eat cheap ammo, are easy to maintain & clean, and are powerful but not so much that it is unpleasant to shoot; great guns in my opinion. I recommend getting a Russian, my favorite, as most have a chrome-lined barrel. They are also the more collectible of the bunch, therefore will command a somewhat higher price. If you want a cheaper end SKS, get the Yugo (CA legal model w/o the grenade launcher of course) or a Chinese.

At any rate, you can't go too wrong with an SKS.
+1, get her a paratrooper sks, nice short barrel and lighter weight. My sister in law has one and it can out perform my brothers fal all day long

Fitz87
02-13-2008, 2:13 PM
Saiga all the way, extremely reliable gun, very light. I think it only weighs like 7 pounds unloaded and is very accurate, either the.223 or 7.62x39 would be good, not much recoil on either of those.

frigginchi
02-13-2008, 2:17 PM
gsg-5

ohsmily
02-13-2008, 2:24 PM
+1, get her a paratrooper sks, nice short barrel and lighter weight. My sister in law has one and it can out perform my brothers fal all day long

What does that mean? Does it dance or sing? Or are you talking accuracy? range? reliability? etc? Example?

sloguy
02-13-2008, 2:40 PM
lotta silly talk here. ok, my 2 cents, the opinions of a bunch of guys who dont even know the girl are not qualified to pick her rifle for her. my advice is to go shoot a bunch of diffrent rifles and form your own opinions. the mini, ar, ak, sks, are all good guns. is cost a factor? does it have to be a magazine fed semi auto? what about a pump action shotgun with slugs?

lotta options out there. i say shoot em all before deciding.

Patriot
02-13-2008, 2:46 PM
I got my sister into shooting about 2 years ago. She bought a Glock 17. She shoots it about once a month and is starting to get proficient. She is a typical female - small and not a die hard gun enthusiast.

She would like to also own a rifle for fun and for the rare possibility of a Katrina like scenario. We all know a rifle is better than a handgun if things ugly.

Unfortunately, she lives in Cali.

Which rifle would you pick?

If this wasn't CA, I'd say look at a Hi-Point 995 or a Kel-Tec sub2000. Both inexpensive 9mm carbines that are relatively compact and lightweight. Ammo compatibility is pretty much a given (and certain models of the Kel-Tec can take Glock mags).

Hard to go wrong with the M1 Carbine IMO. I think by the case .30 Carbine plinking ammo costs roughly the same as .223 plinking ammo. It is very lightweight (around 5.5lbs if I am not mistaken). Fun gun.

As mentioned, pistol caliber carbines are another option. A Marlin 1894 lever action in .357/38 with a 20" barrel is about 6lb (runs around $400).

Both of the above are very handy and - IMO - handle well.

SKS carbines are cheap and Wolf steel-cased ammo is going to be less expensive than .233. Very utilitarian.

For a new shooter, AK/AR derivatives might not be the best choice due to the complex legal situation + neutering required.

Definitely try before you buy so to speak.

Sorry to disagree but I really don't think a pump action shotgun with slugs is a good choice for a small-statured shooter's only longarm.

GJJ
02-13-2008, 3:12 PM
I wanted to stay away from OLLs - AKs, Saigas, AR15s. She wouldn't have a clue how to inform some officer of the reasons why these guns are legal.

I would go with the Mini except for the fact that the only mags I have seen reliably work are 20 round factory mags and the PMI 30 round mags. She can't legally buy either.

SKS would be awkward for a female, non gun beginner to load

I have not heard good reliability reports on the Keltec.

The PC9 is interesting. It might be worth considering. Common caliber with her handgun. Except, a .223 or 7.62 would be a lot better.

saber
02-13-2008, 3:45 PM
I would second the lever action. I have a Winchester 94 that my wife loves. You don't have to deal with magazines and they run like a champ.

No worries about legalities because if those ever get banned or you get stopped for having one, we are in serious do do.

Iknownot
02-13-2008, 3:46 PM
The PC9 is interesting. It might be worth considering. Common caliber with her handgun. Except, a .223 or 7.62 would be a lot better.

Having shot the pc9 at my local gun range, I'd personally go with an M1 carbine. It's just a nicer rifle.

However, if running the same ammo is important then the PC9 would be a good choice. Check out the Marlin Camp carbine also. You'll have to find one used but they are easy to run across. They are much nicer than the PC9, with a better trigger feel, IMO.

gosparx
02-13-2008, 3:48 PM
I wanted to stay away from OLLs - AKs, Saigas, AR15s. She wouldn't have a clue how to inform some officer of the reasons why these guns are legal.

I sympathize and agree with your concern, but if your sister is going to own a gun of any kind in this state, particularly a rifle, she had better become very familiar with the gun laws.

IMO, even once you decide on a rifle, the only way she is going to end up coming to the range on a regular basis is if she is having fun shooting.

When I take friends out shooting, the guns the women enjoy the most are the simple (pretty much stock with a red dot sight) ARs and the AKs. It may be "source of all evil", but the pistol grip on these guns does make them easy to hold and very comfortable to shoot.

Another really fun gun, that I can make a bold claim that your sister (and you) would really enjoy shooting, is the PS90. The big problem them is that ammo is kind of pricey, and the guns are very pricey. But they are small and very easy for a small framed person to hold, plus they don't kick at all and they very accurate. They are also incredibly easy to field-strip and clean.

Lots and lots of choices of firearms, most of them great choices. But like I said, regardless of what you get, your sister is going to have to understand the moronic and asinine gun laws in this state!

Actually, it's too bad that these are now illegal to buy in this state, because this would have been the perfect first gun for someone!!! Inexpensive to buy, cheap ammo and no recoil at all!!! :43:
7957

Linus
02-13-2008, 4:12 PM
I sympathize and agree with your concern, but if your sister is going to own a gun of any kind in this state, particularly a rifle, she had better become very familiar with the gun laws.

When I take friends out shooting, the guns the women enjoy the most are the simple (pretty much stock with a red dot sight) ARs and the AKs. It may be "source of all evil", but the pistol grip on thes

Can't argue with that. She's going to have to learn the CA laws so if possible why not an AR. But like others have said, she should just go and test a bunch of rifles/calibers to see what she likes best.

packnrat
02-13-2008, 4:47 PM
cheep is the sks, lots of ca leagle toy you can put on it.

if not then a ca aproved ar clone.

both easy shooters,

the sks is a breze to reload with strippers,

the ar not so easy to open the gun up.


brass hounds rule:TFH:

.

deldgeetar
02-13-2008, 4:47 PM
I would reccomend an M1 Carbine myself. I bought my girlfriend one and she absolutely loves it. Ammo is a little expensive but worth it. A Saiga wouldn't be a bad idea either. My girlfriend is small (5 feet and 97 pounds) and she can shoot mine all day with no problems. She even likes the Garand but she has trouble holding it for more than a clip.

CSACANNONEER
02-13-2008, 4:58 PM
I'd suggest a good bolt action. Most female shooters that I've seen can out shoot most guys. So, why not get her a gun that is capable of shooting <1MOA? Also, I'd rather have new shooters learn with bolt guns. That way they don't get caught up in the whole "spray and pray" mentallity and instead, they really learn how to shoot properly. Also, I'd suggest a .22 only because ammo is cheap and that way she can afford more trigger time which will make her a better shooter. Of course, if you feel the need to get her a military style semi auto, a custom Hello Kitty (or whatever theme she likes) AR would be "cool".

11Z50
02-13-2008, 5:20 PM
I'd have to recommend a .22LR, and probably a semi-auto. A tube-mag can get you more than 10 shots, and while the 22LR is not a man-killer, it will do the job, and is better than nothing.

If she has a gun she enjoys shooting, she's likely to shoot it more and get to be good with it. She can store several thousand rounds of 22LR easily and economically. In the event of a "katrina" situation, she can grab up her gear and be ready in minutes, to either flee or defend her home.

If your sister already has a decent handgun for self-defense, a good 22LR can provide additional options at minimal cost.

J_Rock
02-13-2008, 6:10 PM
A pink AR maybe? :D

http://www.beaglexp.com/archives/BARBIE1%20(2).jpg

Sampachi
02-13-2008, 6:13 PM
+1 on the M1 Carbine. Maybe an SKS for a cheaper alternative. A friend of mine who shot my T38 Arisaka carbine really liked it, since it had a mild recoil and was handy. I'm not suggesting an Arisaka, but do consider one of the Commercial Czech or Ruger bolt actions in .223 or 7.62x39. They make for fun shooting.

weezil_boi
02-13-2008, 6:34 PM
If she really wants an instant self defense weapon, get the gal a shotgun and plenty of 00 buck. That is assuming she wants to keep unfriendlies from comming into her house. If she plans to CARRY a rifle around ina SHTF scenario, well... it better be easy to "hide". No sense in drawing attention. So for that purpose, and the common use of ammo, and the low recoil, ease of use... I agree... Kel-Tec SU16.

If she will put in the time at the range, a rifle will do. Otherwise, have her stick with the shottie. If you have doubts... ask her to load and snap any centerfire cartridge in a semi-auto rifle with out showing her how. Then ask her to do the same with a 12 gauge... dont show her how. That would be a good excercise to see how shed do when cold, scared, tired, hungry and sick... thats SHTF. My wife is comfy with my Remmy 870. My 1.5 cents.

acolytes
02-13-2008, 6:47 PM
My fiance never cared too much for guns until I got her a 10/22 with a tapco t6 stock and red dot sight. Its a fun little gun to shoot and good for a first time shooter. She loves it and now is a gun enthusiast. Im thinking her next rifle will be an AK or AR.

movie zombie
02-13-2008, 6:56 PM
levers:

.357 calibre Marlin 1894C is 6 pounds and has an 18.25 inch barrel. can also use .38 ammo.

any Marlin lever action .22.

inexpensive ammo for both.

the .357 for fun and defense. the .22 just for fun.....

movie zombie

M1A_KICHI
02-13-2008, 6:59 PM
Hmmm...I got a pc9 and when I take my girl out she loves to shoot that instead of my other toys. Only real negative thing (for some) is the heavy trigger pull but it has a purpose with that being not easily pulling the trigger. Ammo is still cheap and it barely has any real recoil. It is also built pretty solid. People have also mentioned an m1 carbine which is another good choice.

caldude
02-13-2008, 7:25 PM
Of the guns mentioned, my choices:
#1 - M1 Carbine - Light, FUN to shoot, not much kick, ammo cost isn't too bad
#2 - Marlin 1894 - Same characteristics as the M1, but not semi-auto

.22s are okay if learning how to shoot, but I wouldn't recommend as a SHTF gun. I've had too many problems with my SU-16 to recommend that, and I don't know what a PC9 is.

SKS's are heavy, not real easy to load (although stripper clips make it MUCH easier), and aren't real accurate (at least mine isn't), but the ammo is really cheap and the gun is very reliable.

ARs, AKs, etc. have too many gray areas for a newbie who may not know the laws.

WINGEDSWORD
02-13-2008, 7:42 PM
If she is new to rifles, I would not suggest any semi-auto. As several others have said, A lever action carbine in .357 is an excellent choice. Light, handy,
minimum recoil and no detachable mags to fool with or lose. second choice
would be agood bolt action in .223. Both Remington and Ruger make youth models that would work well for a small woman. Also, any manual action is far safer, for a beginner than a semi-auto.

Bucc
02-13-2008, 8:02 PM
Are you kidding me?

There is so much disinformation and rumour bashing the Ruger Mini platform that it disgusts me.




So what disinformation did I offer up?

So beside Rugers supremely overpriced and hard to acquire 20s what are the alternatives?
Don't say Triple K.
I have a 5 gallon bucket full over TKs that are all junk and most have been back to the factory for repair and several were factory replacements.
I have three that work, all twenty rounders and that's out of over a dozen.
They are friendly enough customer service wise but after you pay more in shipping for each mag than you did for the mag it gets ridiculous.
So no, not triple k.
Yup, a bucket full of shiny new scrap metal sitting in the garage in Havasu.

Mec Gar?
No they suck too.
One of the plastic fantastics?
I have seen them work for a few thousand rounds then start to wear out same as the Thermold replica or better called Thermold rip off mags...at best hit or miss just like Triple K.
John Masens are also really hit or miss.
National magazine makes a great paper weight.
Pro mag..... need I go there? I will say some Pro Mag polymer mags work OK if they work at all and even that is luck in my opinion.
Ruger makes a killer mag but they are hovering at $50 each.
They find out a vendor is selling to civies and Ruger either reduces severely the inventory they will send or cuts them off altogether.
They will sell you a really nice 5 round mag for $35 and it will never fail you.
Yaaaaay five whole rounds! I'm all aquiver!
C products was talking about making a mini 14 mag and I'd love to see it.
Seems they can't get them to work right and won't put out a bad magazine......good for them.

The sights blow on a mini, the new ones may be OK but I have never shot a new one...mine were 20 years old.
Try getting parts for a mini. Then look at AR parts.
Minis do funny things barrel wise when you fire more than 20 rounds through them.
I have seen already minute of pie plate groups open up 6 inches at 100 yards. I've never seen an AR, M1A, SU-16, M1 carbine or really anything else do that.
Speaking of barrels.... where do you get a new one? Hmmmmmm?
Oh yeah, right, Ruger says factory install only.
Same with hammer, firing pin or bolt assembly, trigger, sear parts, ...parts exchange at the factory only.
If you happen to have an old 180 don't jack up the rear sights....they don't make them anymore and you send your rifle to New Hampshire.
Fact is any factory service for the mini generally goes to NH.

So tell me again about the disgusting disinformation?


All that said I do have a few Rugers and love em but they just are not up to par with a good AR.

xenophobe
02-13-2008, 9:02 PM
Wow... I can't believe how ludicrous some of these suggestions are.

For a first time rifle owner? A Ruger 10/22 without a second thought. Possibly a Marlin or Savage in .17HMR.

GJJ
02-13-2008, 9:10 PM
I am coming to the conclusion that there are no "good" choices for California. Some choices are less bad than others.

If she lived in a free state, I would recommend an AK. Simple to disassemble. Sights just like her handgun. Good stopping power. Reliable.

Bucc
02-13-2008, 9:24 PM
No, there are lots of good choices just not really great ones.
A Saiga might be a good idea.

aplinker
02-14-2008, 12:21 AM
If she doesn't want a 10/22 to learn to shoot, then add a more hefty rifle...

Then this would be my choices (for ease of use, cheapness and reliability):
1.) Saiga in .223 or 7.62x39
2.) M1 Carbine
3.) Ruger PC40, PC9 or .45acp carbine
4.) Remington 7615 pump action rifle (takes AR mags)

What's the issue with a MMG equipped AR or AK? It's not more difficult on those than it is on a Saiga.

Bucc
02-14-2008, 12:27 AM
Wow... I can't believe how ludicrous some of these suggestions are.

For a first time rifle owner? A Ruger 10/22 without a second thought. Possibly a Marlin or Savage in .17HMR.


Except that he specifically mentioned a SHTF Katrina type scenario.
Without that caveat I would say you are spot on.

bluestaterebel
02-14-2008, 12:47 AM
mini14

apbrian112
02-14-2008, 1:28 AM
i would say a fixed oll build with a light-weight 16" barrel build. roughly as much as a mini-14.
-$135 (+tax dros) doublestar lower (metroshot)
-$500 (give or take) rifle kit from j&t or del-ton
-$50 (mag + mag lock)

add accesories as you go along.

or you could go on the inexpensive side and get a saiga .223 or 7.62x39

apbrian112
02-14-2008, 1:30 AM
oh, plus a ceiner 22lr conversion kit to plink around with.

pullnshoot25
02-14-2008, 1:36 AM
Ruger 10/22 always makes a good first rifle.

What about a Sub2000 to match the Glock?

snaggletooth
02-14-2008, 3:21 AM
For a "katrina" type of rifle, and considering the region, its probably more likely a earthquake or riot, I'd recommend a socom I, or scout. I know a lot of people will say too much weight or recoil, but if my 100 lbs cousin can lug a socom I the way she does, I think any female will be able to. The recoil is actually not that much and the cost of ammo is nothing compared to the piece of mind, that stopping power will provide. Why kid youself in thinking that a double tap will do, with the wussy .223 (although it does have its uses), when you know that you can stop most vehicles with a .308, and it has penetrative qualities for the shtf scenarios. Thats just my 2 cents

Bugei
02-14-2008, 8:07 AM
I'd have to recommend a .22LR, and probably a semi-auto. A tube-mag can get you more than 10 shots, and while the 22LR is not a man-killer, it will do the job, and is better than nothing.


+1. 10-22 all the way. If she's never handled a rifle before, she needs to shoot a LOT. Of course, she'll already have the pre-ban 30-round mags from the last 10-22 she owned, so she can reuse those. Heck, even an AR7 isn't something a guy want to run into if he breaks into her house: 10 rounds of .22LR in the chest and face area will generally cause some severe introspection and career reconsideration on the part of Mr. Burglar.

If she's gotta have ammo compatibility, I can recommend the Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm to go with the Glock. M1 carbine also a good choice; the ammo ain't cheap, but it's handy and the length of pull is good for shorter arms.

GJJ
02-14-2008, 9:21 AM
10/22 won't work. It does not reliably stop bad guys. They may die. But, it will take time. Time gives them the chance to do a lot of bad things before they exit the planet.

River Jack
02-14-2008, 9:25 AM
Although 10/22s are a hoot and certainly everyone should own one or two, the original post said that she wanted a rifle for 1) fun (10/22 are certainly fun), and 2) possible shtf scenario (this is where the 10/22 would fall short, unless you are hunting squirrels for dinner). For a shtf situation, I wouldn't want anything less than a .223 (AR), better yet 7.62x39 (AK or SKS) or if you really want the knock down power .308 (M1 or M1A). Again, although ARs and AKs are certainly fun and all, I like the SKS due to similicity and affordablility (to purchase and shoot). Sure, it's heavier than the ARs and AKs but I doubt any rifle she would choose would need to get lugged around that much. It would also be much easier on the shoulder than the .308.

CSACANNONEER
02-14-2008, 9:38 AM
10/22 won't work. It does not reliably stop bad guys. They may die. But, it will take time. Time gives them the chance to do a lot of bad things before they exit the planet.

Of course it will work well as a training rifle. She could get a larger caliber to shoot as well but, she can afford more trigger time with a .22lr. Also, there's a reason that many survial guns, including military issue, are chambered in .22lr. One big advantage is that you can carry a lot of ammo since it's lite and small. Also, a .22lr has the potential to instantly drop a man or large animal with one shot. It's about shot placement. I'll tell you that if I owned guns and had to choice only one to take with me for survival, it will be a .22 with 2k-3k rounds of ammo. I can't carry 1K of .223 on my back w/other gear and the thoughht of trying to carry a 1919 or one of my imaginary 50BMGs along with enough ammo is rediculous. For long term survival, a .22lr is a great choice.

Bugei
02-14-2008, 10:34 AM
Although 10/22s are a hoot and certainly everyone should own one or two, the original post said that she wanted a rifle for 1) fun (10/22 are certainly fun), and 2) possible shtf scenario (this is where the 10/22 would fall short, unless you are hunting squirrels for dinner). For a shtf situation, I wouldn't want anything less than a .223 (AR), better yet 7.62x39 (AK or SKS) or if you really want the knock down power .308 (M1 or M1A). Again, although ARs and AKs are certainly fun and all, I like the SKS due to similicity and affordablility (to purchase and shoot). Sure, it's heavier than the ARs and AKs but I doubt any rifle she would choose would need to get lugged around that much. It would also be much easier on the shoulder than the .308.
YMMV, and I have to agree with a lot of it. We wouldn't pick that rifle for ourselves for the time when shtf...but we're not new shooters. In a shtf situation, though, I'm looking to break contact and fade back rather than get into a shootout. I submit a .22LR would do that job just as well. I prefer to wear the rabbit hat as a civilian in a bad situation, rather than the bear hat. I'd want a new shooter to do the same; not stand and slug it out with a main battle rifle: just put their heads down long enough to E&E.

You can rely on a .22 to put a man down: you just have to shoot him more. I came up on the M16, and it falls into the same category for me. It will do the job, just not with a single shot, unless it's precisely placed.

Again, new shooter. And if the new shooter can only afford one rifle to learn on and then carry, she'll shoot more with a .22 than anything else. Think of how many .22's you've put downrange than any other caliber.

Like I said, for you and me, a bigger caliber with more pop is perfectly in order. I just replaced with SKS with a .308 Saiga, for all the reasons you specified. It's tough finding a new Cali-legal SKS these days, by the way.

But for a new woman shooter who can only own one rifle, the 10/22 is the nerts. I gotta stand by that.

GJJ
02-14-2008, 10:49 AM
You are assuming you can run.

A .22 can not reliably put a man down. Sometimes-yes. Eventually-yes. A .22 is a training rifle. It has no business as a self defense tool.

Based on the credible responses to this thread, I would say the Saiga is the best choice.

CSACANNONEER
02-14-2008, 11:00 AM
A Saiga is only a 3-4moa rifle at best. If that's the kind of shooting that your friend is going to be happy with then, go for it. As for a .22lr reliably putting a man down, it's all about shot placement. I've seen deer drop in their tracks with one well placed .22lr and I've known a man that was hit with a 50BMG during his stay in Korea and he is still walking around like nothing happened. So, a Saiga and all the ammo she can carry (along with other survival equipment) is better than a .22lr and more ammo? A .22lr is also much easier to improvise a surpressor for if the need should arise. I am not suggesting that anyone ever break the law. I'm just pointing out facts. Also, in a SHTF senerio, .22lr is probably the most common round that you will be able to find. Everyone has some.

xenophobe
02-14-2008, 11:28 AM
Except that he specifically mentioned a SHTF Katrina type scenario.
Without that caveat I would say you are spot on.

Yeah, but there's no such thing as SHTF. It's a pure fantasy situation. In any case, all you really need is one handgun. A rifle would be more trouble than it's worth in an urban situation, and if the SHTF for real, you could easily obtain a rifle from any number of the hordes of looters and theives coming to attack and rape your family and household animals.

Bugei
02-14-2008, 11:31 AM
You are assuming you can run.

A .22 can not reliably put a man down. Sometimes-yes. Eventually-yes. A .22 is a training rifle. It has no business as a self defense tool.

Based on the credible responses to this thread, I would say the Saiga is the best choice.

Well, yes: I'm assuming I can run. Barring that, I'd have to say that a Saiga is a better self-defense tool than a .22, and that if the .22 is what I have, I'll be using that instead. As for the reliability of putting a man down, I don't believe that they're issuing bullet-proof faces, even in these enlightened times.

I just did a quick Internet search: this popped up.
US Justice statistics (see http://ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/guic.txt)
From 1982 to 1993, of the 687 officers who were
killed by firearms other than their own guns, more
were killed by .38 caliber handguns than by any
other type of weapon.

Percent of law
enforcement
officers killed
Type of firearm with a firearm

.38 caliber handgun 25.2%
.357 Magnum handgun 12.1
9 millimeter handgun 9.5
12 gauge shotgun 7.4
.22 caliber handgun 5.4
.22 caliber rifle 4.4

9.9 percent of officers killed were with a .22. I agree it's not the manstopper I choose to bet my life on. But I don't discount it as not being a credible manstopper.

I don't think that I would teach a new female rifle shooter on a Saiga.

And, honest; I do find my responses credible. Again, YMMV.

wikidklown
02-14-2008, 11:48 AM
An oll AR <-- light and accurate but expensive.
A Cali compliant SKS <--- very nice shooter cheaper than AR
a Cali compliant AK <-- cheaper as well
Saiga's are comin up <--- seem to be getting popular but could be due to the low price. I never shot one.
you could also tell her to get a .22 rifle for warm ups.

Don't forget the shotty for home defense....

grywlfbg
02-14-2008, 12:19 PM
M1 Carbine all the way. CMP has them for $420. Hardly any recoil, large enough bullet to stop a person, Fulton makes reliable 10-rd mags.

I bought a CMP M1 Carbine rifle for my wife last year and she found it very easy to shoot. Much easier to operate than an AR (fewer buttons and levers, you can easily see if it's chambered, etc).

http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm

NickN27
02-14-2008, 12:32 PM
Get her trained and experienced with a riffle first, if it takes getting her a ruger 10/22 so be it, but let her know that riffle is not good for anything other than plinking, and varmints, she will need to step up to a real riffle if she wants anything effective. IMO build her a OLL AR lightweight upper setup. She lives in CA and owns a gun, she should be well informed if how things are here.

Bucc
02-14-2008, 12:50 PM
Yeah, but there's no such thing as SHTF. It's a pure fantasy situation.


OH MAAAAAAAN!
Thank a bunch!
You just totally wrecked 20 years of fantasies revolving around me rescuing a sorority of exclusively playmate material buxom silicone enhanced ethnically diverse 20 year old bi nympho hotties from hoards of gay nazi zombie bikers.
This leaving there not another functioning live male withing 500 miles tasking me with the job of repopulating the area for mankind........
Thanks loads.....jerk.











P.S.
I still say Saiga but maybe an AR with a .22 upper....

GJJ
02-14-2008, 1:33 PM
Katrina happened. The Rodney King riots happened. Never say never. SHTF is rare. But, it is real.

acolytes
02-14-2008, 1:49 PM
I think if I went after someone and they put 2-3 .22lr rounds into me center mass or any part of the body, it might not kill me right there but it will stop my aggression real fast. lol

caldude
02-14-2008, 2:07 PM
Yeah, but there's no such thing as SHTF. It's a pure fantasy situation.

And this is from someone who lives in the Bay Area. A very real SHTF can occur when the BIG ONE hits. I'm sure you've seen the post Katrina pictures of people protecting their neighborhoods with their rifles. Could happen here too.

pullnshoot25
02-14-2008, 2:32 PM
In the case of a SHTF rifle, might I suggest a good ol' .44Mag? I love my levergun and revolver and I think they fit the bill in terms of weight, capacity, knockdown power and damned good looks. A .357 levergun might not be so bad either.

Here is my .44Mag pair. Winchester '94 Trapper (bought from a guy here on Kalguns) and a Taurus Tracker. For the weight of a SOCOM and 1/2 the price, you can have a rifle and handgun in the same caliber. a good holster and sling and plenty of ammunition with damned good knockdown power and good reloading ability. Also, the levergun is not "scary looking" to the common individual and I have had quite a few people ask me if it is a Red Ryder. That said, you can carry this rifle somewhere under your arm and not too much alarm will be raised over it (given the SHTF situation).

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/pullnshoot25/my44s.gif

I will post pictures at a later time of my new rig from Simply Rugged.

Nodda Duma
02-14-2008, 3:16 PM
My first rifle was an M1 Carbine. It was a good choice. Nice transition gun from 22's to full power rifles like Enfields, Mausers, & etc. I think it'd be a good transition gun from pistols as well.

I believe that it would be a good choice as well for SHTF simply because it is lightweight and short...that is what you want in a rifle that you have to swing around in an urban environment or if you have to be on foot for any long period of time. In addition, using commercial soft point ammo gives very good knock-down power. Not enough to take down a deer except at closer range (less than 100yds) but more than adequate to stop an attacker IMO.

It is also very fun to plink and an inexpensive rifle compared to other alternatives like an AK, AR, etc. But above all it is lightweight, short, and low recoil.

-Jason

ibanezfoo
02-14-2008, 8:35 PM
I got my sister into shooting about 2 years ago. She bought a Glock 17. She shoots it about once a month and is starting to get proficient. She is a typical female - small and not a die hard gun enthusiast.

She would like to also own a rifle for fun and for the rare possibility of a Katrina like scenario. We all know a rifle is better than a handgun if things ugly.

Unfortunately, she lives in Cali.

Which rifle would you pick?

My wife started with a 10/22 and a 20 ga. shotgun. She fired a friends Mini14 and had to have one. I only got to buy an AR if she got to shoot it first, which she did and loved it. My wife is small, barely over 5' and little over 100 lbs. and she can handle all our rifles up to the 30-06 which she doesn't like.

-Bryan