PDA

View Full Version : Neighborhood Watch Warning of recent home invasions reply


otteray
02-11-2008, 7:48 PM
City neighborhood watch group recent email warning compelled me to reply about some very recent home invasions; since protecting one's self seems to have never been brought up:

Thanks for the "heads-up."

This is what the our community's Neighborhood Watch is all about when it comes to the unforgivable crime of terrifying home invasions:
Reporting, Alerting, and Neighborhood Action.
My front and back doors now are locked. Now that the thieves see how easy it is to steal around here, they may become bolder.


For me, in these uncertain times, it's my personal opinion that it's a good idea to have a 3-fold combined personal or family protection plan:

one plan for immediate action, a plan for retreat, and a plan for last resort defense of you life and loved ones in your home; using the plans in any order, as needed.

That's just my own plan; perhaps SCPD could help with developing more appropriate strategies in the future?

Let's stick together and do all we can to help our law enforcement stop these creeps; to lock them behind bars, where they belong!

I wanted to include the words "have a firearm", but I guess I realized the politically correct elements here would think I was a "gun-nut."
What do you think? I am trying to slowly open the door to home protection discussions with our Watch Group and local PD.
Did I shirk my duty to my community by not advising them to arm themselves if possible?

GuyW
02-11-2008, 7:51 PM
...but I guess I realized the politically correct elements here would think I was a "gun-nut."


Well, maybe it just me, but I don't lose any sleep over what some @#$_ole "thinks"....

Bizcuits
02-11-2008, 7:56 PM
While I am techincally not suppose to suggest it, there is nothing saying I couldn't...

Although, everytime I deal with a resident who doesn't show obvious signs of a liberal attitude, the topic of purchasing a firearm and properly training with it always seems to come up. :D

If someone asks me for advise for home defense or how to protect their family. I tend to be honest, but try to use colorful words.

otteray
02-11-2008, 8:55 PM
I'm just hoping that the Neighborhood Watch person with our local PD picks up on this thought and offers a discussion about home protection. I'll keep pursuing it.
Then, I could voice my thoughts about firearms for home defense.
At least, that's my plan.
I don't think the Santa Cruz PD is totally anti. I never saw that attitude.
They did let me use their own shooting range to shoot a department issued semi-auto rifle and a pistol when I participated in the Citizens Police Academy along with many other local folks doing the same.

eaglemike
02-11-2008, 9:43 PM
My impression is that most people do not know the police are not responsible for an individuals safety. I read a couple of cases several years ago about that. Maybe some of the legal scholars here could provide the info - at the time it was not important for me to save the info.

If some of the more liberal people that believe the government will always be there to save them knew the real situation, their position might change for the better (IMHO). :) I don't know if the local PD would be willing to provide that information, and might not even know. Of course, I could be wrong - it happens.....

all the best,

Mike

M. Sage
02-11-2008, 9:54 PM
I'd mention something firearms related. At least get the idea that putting up a fight isn't a bad idea.

You can't always just "give them what they want." Sometimes what they want is your life.

oaklander
02-11-2008, 11:22 PM
Home invasions in my home are met with the immediate death of the perpetrator.

That's my simple one-part plan.

:D

radioactivelego
02-12-2008, 3:02 AM
I never really got neighborhood watches much at all. At least in my neighborhood. A grand total of 1 out of every 10 houses on my block have a retired person or stay at home mom who is too busy to be checking outside every 10 seconds for an irregularl work van or nondescript Honda Civic with tinted windows watching between 10:45-11:00AM.

BSlacker
02-12-2008, 5:04 AM
Neighborhood Watch is for people who are not up to speed with basic stuff like have extra water and lock your doors.
IMHO it is not for home invasion type crimes. Sure one should be observant when around the neighborhood but come on how would you know if your next door neighbor is having a home invasion right now. Most police departments frown on home protection advice that includes gun ownership.
You mentioned that you are just now routinely locking your doors. Did you actually go to the meetings? Around here that is the first and last thing they tell home owners every meeting it is a mantra.
One of my neighbors an elderly lady reported suspicious vehicles using the parking lot across from her for drug activity. Sure enough the PD busted a creep in the lot. Now she is scared of every vehicle thinking it is a druggie coming to get her for turning them in. Some people need to just keep quiet for their own peace of mind. Most of your neighbors never thought of being a security guard why do you want them to be one?
I am the resident gun nut here in my watch group. I get asked after every meeting by someone about what gun to get for home protection. I always answer get lights and locks first. Most of these people haven't put forth the least effort and cost to improve security around the home with cheap lights and locks, locks that will be used, they don't have good tight locks on their windows but they want a gun like it is magic. Well if you can't be trusted to lock your doors and windows when you leave your home, as evidenced by someone coming into your home through an unlocked door or window to steal your Xbox thingy. Yes it happened here and the neighbor who is supposed to be watching my place didn't lock their house when they left, then how is it I want you with a gun living next to me. So it would have been a gun and a Xbox stolen. How does that make me more secure to have a little creep running around with a gun.
I don't think the email needs a response. It was info not a question.
Neighborhood Watch is defined by your neighbor telling the police yea I watched him run south with my neighbors stuff.

Ironchef
02-12-2008, 8:11 AM
I disagree. My wife is head of our neighborhood watch for our 180 unit condo complex in a crime ridden ****hole part of Antioch. Because of our vigilence, we stopped a home invasion at the residence below our unit. We also have a Pittsburg LEO in our complex and he has offered to teach how to properly lock up your place, how to know what to look for in parking lots and in patios, etc. Because of obvious lack of interest from the majority of neighbors, it may be a failure..but if ONE crime is stopped because of vigilant neighborhood watch members, it'll all be worth it. I think the goal is to get neighbors NOT to be afraid to call police, not to be quiet about crimes, and not to put their heads in the sand. Because it is what it is..just watching out for your neighbors.

We had 4 BMAs kicking in a gate to the back patio of our neighbor below, I happened to look out our living room window down at them, startled them, and they ran like the punkass losers there are. PD came and did their usual nothing, didn't even look where we told them the bad guys ran, and me and the neighbor patched up his fence and barricaded it some what. Well, 30 minutes later, the same 4 shameless assheads come barreling through the gate, enter their patio, 1 or 2 of them are fighting with the home owner at his sliding back door. I'm out on my patio with my SAR light and I'm screaming "police!! police!! ROBBERY!!" etc, etc and lighting them up with the light..and eventually they realize it's a lost cause and run again. Police??? yeah, the came back again to do the same usual nothingness.

In short, we're on our own. If anyone thinks they're not and that the PD is there to protect them or respond in a timely enough manner are sorely mistaken. Dog and gun ownership are all you can rely on..and indoor familial tactical training. The wife and kids and I have monthly fire/earthquake and tactical drills where we practice concealing mom and kids in master bathroom while papa positions himself with the handgun between family and bad guy while mommy calls the PD. Kids are good at being quiet during tactical drills which is our biggest goal.

Army
02-12-2008, 8:37 AM
"..to be armed with the best means available, and learn to use them."

Bishop
02-12-2008, 9:38 AM
I might have put in some anecdote about the police taking too long to respond, and then offered free firearm training. :D

kuhjäger
02-12-2008, 9:58 AM
City neighborhood watch group recent email warning compelled me to reply about some very recent home invasions; since protecting one's self seems to have never been brought up:




Let's stick together and do all we can to help our law enforcement stop these creeps; to lock them behind bars, where they belong! [/I][/COLOR]

I wanted to include the words "have a firearm", but I guess I realized the politically correct elements here would think I was a "gun-nut."
What do you think? I am trying to slowly open the door to home protection discussions with our Watch Group and local PD.
Did I shirk my duty to my community by not advising them to arm themselves if possible?

Where are these home invasions happening? I am in Santa Cruz and have heard nothing of them.

SuperSet
02-12-2008, 10:08 AM
Specific examples help more than generalities. It might help if their email started with the Connecticut home invasions. It really could help to anyone.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290542,00.html

CHESHIRE, Conn. — A quiet Connecticut community woke up on Tuesday to more details behind a home invasion that ended with a prominent doctor injured, his wife and two daughters killed and their house up in flames.

Joshua Komisarjevsky, 26, of Cheshire and Steve Hayes, 44, of Winsted, were charged with assault, sexual assault, kidnapping, burglary, robbery and arson. Bail was set at $15 million each, and state police have said that additional charges are likely.

The suspects, both parolees with long rap sheets, were caught Monday in the family's SUV as they fled the burning home, which they apparently had torched to cover their tracks, authorities said.

Authorities said he would use military night-vision goggles during break-ins to steal electronic items while his victims were sleeping and that he claimed he did so to support a drug habit, prosecutor Ronald Dearstyne said at the time.

He added that Komisarjevsky, armed with a military backpack containing items including a knife for ripping window screens, began robbing homes when he was 14, the Courant reported.

Hayes has a 25-year history of burglary and larceny.

Bank employees contacted police when one of the suspects accompanied a female hostage, who was not identified, to make a withdrawal around 9:30 a.m. Monday. Police drove to the Petit home in this quiet suburb.

Dr. Petit, though severely injured, managed to tell police what happened. His wife and two daughters were found dead in the home, said a law enforcement official with firsthand knowledge of the investigation.

SchooBaka
02-12-2008, 10:55 AM
Where are these home invasions happening? I am in Santa Cruz and have heard nothing of them.

Yeah, I'd like to know if home invasions are up in sc?
I'm in the hills, so I don't think they'd come up here, but who knows, they may latch onto the idea of longer pd response times up here.
As for the nieghborhood watch, I'd defenitly mention arming yourself.
We have neigborhood watch signs on my road, but I've never had it come up in conversations with the neigbors. We all tend to keep an eye on each others places anyways. I'm lucky to have a bunch of retired people around me, armed as well.
And now, I'm off to clean my guns. :D

otteray
02-12-2008, 9:09 PM
Where are these home invasions happening? I am in Santa Cruz and have heard nothing of them.

Pine Street, near Seabright? (computer and electronics); Oxford Way on the westside, (laptop and brand new plasma TV);
Here on Fair Ave, my neighbor was broken into twice last year.
There have been a lot of car break-ins, too.

Crap, I won't even walk down to West Cliff anymore at night. Thugs are hanging out in the parking lots during the warmer months and there were a few beatings and some hassles a few months ago. A couple of drive by shootings last summer.
Ive been keeping my doors locked for several years now.

Salty
02-12-2008, 11:04 PM
I'd throw the suggestion out there of not just guns, but more basic weapons like maglites, baseball bats (short alum ones), knives, pepper spray, etc.

My stand is that I understand that not everyone is comfortable with guns, but every American should be ready to defend them selves should the need arise. Wether it be with a gun, a knife, or a ball peen hammer.

Salty
02-12-2008, 11:48 PM
I know there was a home invasion not too long ago on Trevethan ave (near Morrisey). Two guys beat the mother and her son with baseball bats and put them in the closet while they raided the house. It really hit me, because I used to live on that street.

Just a few weeks ago there was an armed robbery on West Cliff, and a random stabbing downtown.

The problem here is that people are too inviting to crooks. Most Santa Cruzians have this "nothing could happen here, and to me" attitude, and the crooks as of late have been praying upon that attitude. I sometimes read the police blotter and notice that a lot of the crooks seem to be coming down from Oakland. I still know many people who never lock there car doors, and leave their home windows open 24/7 in the summer.

I agree with you that the SC police don't come across as anti-gun. Most of them are more of the good ol' boy Santa Cruzian type versus the hippie Santa Cruzian type.

At the time when I only had a rifle, I had to use it in defense of my home (no shoots fired, guy ran away when I turned the light on) and the responding officer was very nice and didn't even ask me to put the gun down while I was talking to her. She did kindly ask that I keep it inside the house, but that was all.

I'll finish off my rambling by saying in the years I've lived hear I've had the following stolen:
1. My car. (Guy got caught driving it and plead guilty to grand theft auto. Arresting officer told me that this was the guys 3ed grand theft auto offense)
2. The grille off of a car. (WTF?)
3. A hooded sweatshirt and beanie that were in a car (lock picked / slim jimed)
4. Also came out one morning to loose lug nuts, I assume that someone was trying to steal my wheels.

retired
02-13-2008, 12:47 AM
I set up the Neighborhood watch program when I moved into my new neighborhood. Ours was the last home sold and most people had been in theirs for over a year, but obviously no one took the initiative. My wife and I had been block captains in our old neighborhood for about 6yrs. I'm the liaison for the Sheriff's Dept. and type up the flyers for the block capt.s.

Thankfully we have not had any home invasions, tho a residential burg occurred 2 weeks ago. The resident had accidently left her door unlocked, but due to her son dying recently, she really wasn't thinking straight that day.

We have been the victim of an attempted car burg twice in one weekend and that's about all that has occurred.

If we ever have a home invasion or one occurs nearby, I will call a meeting with the dep. I will ask him prior to that what his dept. policy is and I will probably advise offer to speak with them if they want some additonal advice from me based on my experience. Unfortunately, most knew I was retired le before I moved in thanks to a stupid salesperson.:mad:

BSlacker
02-13-2008, 4:58 AM
The Neighborhood Watch folks can always rattle off the crimes and stuff that happened in the hood. But where are the arrest reports? What neighbor watched and reported how many were caught?
I have a high end video security camera system and see everything that goes on around my house. For every Neighborhood Watch reported case of vehicle theft or breakin I see four creeps trying my doors on camera. I have shown these to the Chief of Police the Impact team and Neighborhood Watch officer. They don't even want a copy of the video.
Neighborhood Watch is Police taking credit for something that happens naturally. Are you saying that if it were not for the NW you would not report crimes in progress in your neighborhood? People will report or not based on what their personal make up is not on watch programs. Some people don't want to get involved and shouldn't. What if it is your neighbor that is the drug dealer and they are in the meeting group. Do you vet each member? You know they deal but you don't speak out of fear for your safety. Happened here in our group. Son of one of the Neighborhood Watch Capts was involved with the group of druggies we were trying to eliminate. Always went back and told who those were speaking against the druggies. Yes they called me Narc when walking to the mail box and honked their horns when they passed the house, pulled up in the drive and yelled death to Narcs all the time. Great job Neighborhood Watch.
An issue was raised in a meeting about dogs wandering free and pooping all over. A elderly lady who is a recovering stroke survivor had a problem with a person that walks two large (120lb) dogs no leash. Well the friendly dogs started towards the lady and she lost her balance and fell. Of course the dog owner took off. Well I gave the PD a video of every person who has walked a off leash dog or pooped and didn't pick it up going back 4 years. This is everyone. I gave them the address of everyone as well. This took a lot of time to ID each person. None of the dog people lived in our private development. Not one was contacted and they still use our area for a doggie run and toliet. I have gone as high as City Manager with this still no license or leash. This is more info than has ever been given to NW and they do nothing. If you are depending on NW good luck.

otteray
02-13-2008, 5:52 AM
[QUOTE=BSlacker;998755]The Neighborhood Watch folks can always rattle off the crimes and stuff that happened in the hood. But where are the arrest reports? What neighbor watched and reported how many were caught?
QUOTE]

Well, as a group we have gone to city council or neighborhood meetings with city council invited.
We now have a party house ordinance; traffic mitigating devices coming soon; when crimes such as break-ins and strong arm stuff occur, we let everyone know; druggies and bums hanging out at the RR tracks are reported and removed; graffiti is much less now; meth head houses reported and cleared out; and we've had a positive voice in the new marketplaces / residences being developed here.
All this in the last year or so, since we organized.
So, it's worked out here pretty well.

tcrpe
02-13-2008, 6:06 AM
Hayes has a 25-year history of burglary and larceny.

And yet, he's out on the streets.

AngelDecoys
02-13-2008, 6:08 AM
My impression is that most people do not know the police are not responsible for an individuals safety. I read a couple of cases several years ago about that.he time it was not important for me to save the info.

You are right (above), it is well established case law. The police are not required to show up. Nor are they liable if they do not. Courts have ruled that police are here to 'promote the general welfare,' investigate crime, and serve as a deterent. Basically, you're life is your responsiblity.

Home invasions in my home are met with the immediate death of the perpetrator.

That's my simple one-part plan.

:D

Careful. If a shooting in your house is not 100% justified you will not be considered an innocent victim. Expect the law, and the courts to treat you as such. In CA, a person in your house is not enough justification. You may end up losing your gun rights for a number of years (judges discretion), spend some time in jail, or become pennyless in the process of securing your liberty.

Glock22Fan
02-13-2008, 8:05 AM
In CA, a person in your house is not enough justification.

If the person is not a household member or guest and broke into your house (as opposed to, say, entering through an unlocked door) and you know he broke in, you are allowed to presume that you are in danger of serious threat to life or limb and use deadly force if that appears to you to be reasonable.

IIRC, that is covered in Penal code 198.5

AngelDecoys
02-13-2008, 8:24 AM
If the person is not a household member or guest and broke into your house (as opposed to, say, entering through an unlocked door) and you know he broke in, you are allowed to presume that you are in danger of serious threat to life or limb and use deadly force if that appears to you to be reasonable.

IIRC, that is covered in Penal code 198.5

Try selling that idea to a jury that you were justified in shooting a 15 year old girl in your house that had no ability, and/or no weapon to do you harm. Its a nice sentiment but will get you locked up. This is why I hate blank statements like I'd shoot whomever came in. Like you mention the action must be a 'resonable response' to the threat (given whatever situation one confronts).

There's more to it then what you quoted as a whole. Not trying to troll the issue here. Disparity of force, immediate threat, actual abilty to follow through with threat etc etc etc. If its not 100% justifiable, you WILL no longer be treated as the innocent in the situation. That's reasonable, and one would be crazy to think otherwise.

Salty
02-13-2008, 8:42 AM
yep... 198.5, blow it up and paste it on the front door.

rue
02-13-2008, 8:54 AM
Get a rott./doberman/german shep. or any other good watchdog and you're ahead of the game. I had a weirdo at my side door one night all bloody and yelling give me a ride to Fresno. My Rotty was begging to be let out the door to dispatch him. I ended up confronting the guy with a pistol and got **** for it from the cops but in the end they told me I had the right on my property to produce a weapon to a threat or something. The guy was messed up on crack in his boxers all bloody went they arrested him. They took my ammo out of the gun though before they left. Something about "officer safety"

Glock22Fan
02-13-2008, 9:47 AM
Angeldecoy, sorry, but the law is the law.

Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

The law says nothing about 15 year old girls being exempt. However, I would agree with you that shooting a 15 year old girl would not be prudent in some circumstances, but then I can see circumstances where shooting a 25 year old male would be equally unwise. This is why I added the "if that appears to be reasonable" which is in no way part of the law. I doubt that anyone on this board would advocate shooting a young girl who came, say, crashing through your front door looking dazed and helpless. A young girl advancing towards you with a baseball bat and a crazed look on her face is another issue.

The jury might overlook the law, an appeal court wouldn't.

Glock22Fan
02-13-2008, 9:56 AM
Get a rott./doberman/german shep. or any other good watchdog and you're ahead of the game. I had a weirdo at my side door one night all bloody and yelling give me a ride to Fresno. My Rotty was begging to be let out the door to dispatch him. I ended up confronting the guy with a pistol and got **** for it from the cops but in the end they told me I had the right on my property to produce a weapon to a threat or something. The guy was messed up on crack in his boxers all bloody went they arrested him. They took my ammo out of the gun though before they left. Something about "officer safety"


Two dogs are better, by far. Many break-in criminals (my authority is Massad Ayoob) are prepared to deal with one dog, but know they can't do that if a second dog is ripping their throat out at the time.

AngelDecoys
02-13-2008, 10:03 AM
A young girl advancing towards you with a baseball bat and a crazed look on her face is another issue.

The jury might overlook the law, an appeal court wouldn't.

Concur. Any person regardless of age (or size) coming at a person with a weapon would be a reasonable threat. Without a weapon, it might be reasonable for my wife to shoot, but for me, it might be more reasonable to grab a smaller person and subdue them instead. Of course, its situational and everyone must decide what's 'reasonable.'

And you're probably right, an appeals court would probably rule in someone's favor but you might still be out several hundred grand over a $400 TV. I just take issue with those who think shooting under any circumstance is prudent.

savageevo
02-13-2008, 10:13 AM
I would like to note also for the people that have a garagedoor opener in there car that do not park inside the garage. Be careful. If a garage door opener is inside your car and parked outside. That is one more easy step for the Perp to come inside your house after they break inside your car. Hide it well or get a remote one that attaches to your keys. Just a heads up.

socalguns
02-14-2008, 2:06 AM
Mindreaders unite! B&E is always about $400 TV! When someone breaks into your house, you must assume they are there to steal your television.

socalguns
02-14-2008, 2:13 AM
Police Have No Duty To Protect Individuals
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html

http://stason.org/TULARC/society/pro-guns/1-0-You-don-t-need-a-gun-the-police-will-protect-you.html

http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2005/11/14/dial-911-and-die-what-happens-when-the-police-dont-come/
http://therealgunguys.blogspot.com/2008/01/dial-911-and-dieredux.html
http://www.fraudfactor.com/ff_first_draft_0005.html

Librarian
02-14-2008, 2:30 AM
I am the resident gun nut here in my watch group. I get asked after every meeting by someone about what gun to get for home protection. I always answer get lights and locks first. Most of these people haven't put forth the least effort and cost to improve security around the home with cheap lights and locks, locks that will be used, they don't have good tight locks on their windows but they want a gun like it is magic.

No opinion on NW, but a BIG +1 to this advice. Obviously locks and lights are not a complete solution, but the passive stuff is always there, doesn't require you to be home or awake. If you're lucky, taking these beginning steps will get you thinking of the next layers in your defensive scheme.

As usual, don't have to be really hardened, just harder than the next guy's place. Slow Bad Guys down, make things noisy, take away those advantages.

otteray
02-14-2008, 7:39 AM
As usual, don't have to be really hardened, just harder than the next guy's place.

+1

Two teenage boys went to five homes planning to kill people and steal their ATM cards. After cutting the phone lines at the first home, one teen hid nearby as the other knocked at the door and claimed his car had broken down. But the homeowner had come to the door armed with a gun and frightened them away. ... At the second home, they posed as students doing an environmental study but the man who answered the door said he was too busy to participate. The young men then surveyed a third home, but lost their nerve on the way up the driveway. They targeted a fourth home but the residents weren't home. ... Their fifth target was the secluded home of two professors, well known for generously helping students. In the middle of a sleepy New England day a few miles from the Dartmouth campus, they ignored home security and let the boys in and were stabbed to death in a vicious frenzy.
Excerpted from The Boston Globe – 25 March, 05 April 2002

SchooBaka
02-19-2008, 11:59 AM
Pine Street, near Seabright? (computer and electronics); Oxford Way on the westside, (laptop and brand new plasma TV);
Here on Fair Ave, my neighbor was broken into twice last year.
There have been a lot of car break-ins, too.

Crap, I won't even walk down to West Cliff anymore at night. Thugs are hanging out in the parking lots during the warmer months and there were a few beatings and some hassles a few months ago. A couple of drive by shootings last summer.
Ive been keeping my doors locked for several years now.

Yeah, a friend of mine lives near westcliff, he says the gang thing is getting outa hand. He was outside one night with his son and some guys started approaching another group of guys. One group was yelling "westside", and the other group started yelling "redwood". Redwood? I asked. Yeah, he said, it's the gang from the San lorenzo valley area. He said their color is purple.
Now I've seen it all, a gang in the valley?

tombinghamthegreat
02-19-2008, 12:15 PM
I live in Newbury Park and there has been a massive increase in home invasions. The crime stats claim crime is low but it appears the stats are not accurate. There was a few recent invasions over the years, some ending in murder which is a shock in a small town. Even my house was invaded by someone who said they were going to kill everyone but since my house is protected by Smith and Western the intruder did not get far. Since then we have improved the locks, fenced in my whole property, add some security (camera's, motion devices etc.), doubled the amount of guns my family owns, made the guns ready available, more training with guns, every room in the house has an assortment of weapons, got high powered ammo and now have massive stockpiles of ammo. Yet i feel that it may not be enough but there are always improvements to be made.