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mk19
02-09-2008, 10:44 AM
So i guess i fell asleep browsing the internet last night and when i woke up look at what i saw,


dept of state: McCain not eligible to be president?
Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.
Posted Feb 8, 2008 03:41 PM PST
Category: POLITICS/ELECTIONS/CORRUPTION

Straight from the website of the United States Department of State.

So, with Mitt Romney out, that means we are down to Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee as the leading GOP candidates. :)



http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/citizenship.php

also i had seen a video, somewhat old i think late 90's by a group called VietNam veterans against McCain or POW's against McCain. dont know what i did with the link, you a google it or whatever. I dont find McCain to be a true pro 2A so i am like SWEET.

aileron
02-09-2008, 11:05 AM
SAS should be by soon to enlighten us all.

johnny_22
02-09-2008, 11:54 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/junkie/archive/junkie070998.htm

"
Some might define the term "natural-born citizen" as one who was
born on United States soil. But the First Congress, on March 26,
1790, approved an act that declared, "The children of citizens of the
United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of
the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the
United States." That would seem to include McCain, whose parents were both citizens and whose father was a Navy officer stationed at the U.S. naval base in Panama at the time of John's birth in 1936.

"He meets the requirement of U.S. citizenship in order to be eligible for president," said McCain spokesperson Nancy Ives. (For the record, McCain says the only thing on his plate is his bid for a third Senate term in November, though he is seen as a shoo-in.) "

Another web site said that this may need to be settled in court. Same issue came up with Goldwater (born before AZ was a state) in 1964

M. Sage
02-09-2008, 11:57 AM
I love urban legends...

How is it that a person born to two US citizens on a US-owned installation, there on US business could not be a natural-born citizen?

Bizcuits
02-09-2008, 12:00 PM
I love urban legends...

How is it that a person born to two US citizens on a US-owned installation, there on US business could not be a natural-born citizen?


Their :TFH: was on to tight.

Fjold
02-09-2008, 12:15 PM
Ah, wait for the :TFH: crowd to weigh in and they will tell you that only citizens of States that originally signed the US constitution are eligible. The rest of the US that was brought in after that don't count.

Don't laugh, there are people who actually believe that stuff.

paradox
02-09-2008, 12:16 PM
Fuel on the fire....

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf
7 FAM 1116.1-4 Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United States"

(TL:CON-64; 11-30-95)

a. A U.S.-registered or documented ship on the high seas or in the exclusive economic zone is not considered to be part of the United States. A child born on such a vessel does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of the place of birth (Lam Mow v. Nagle, 24 F.2d 316 (9th Cir., 1928)).

b. A U.S.-registered aircraft outside U.S. airspace is not considered to be part of U.S. territory. A child born on such an aircraft outside U.S. airspace does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of the place of birth.

c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.

M. Sage
02-09-2008, 12:17 PM
Ah, wait for the :TFH: crowd to weigh in and they will tell you that only citizens of States that originally signed the US constitution are eligible. The rest of the US that was brought in after that don't count.

Don't laugh, there are people who actually believe that stuff.

Guess I'm good to go, with ancestors who signed the Declaration and Constitution. :chris:

jamesob
02-09-2008, 6:02 PM
so if me and my wife go to mexico on vacation and she gives birth in cabo, my kid would be a mexican? give me a break.

paradox
02-09-2008, 6:11 PM
so if me and my wife go to mexico on vacation and she gives birth in cabo, my kid would be a mexican? give me a break.

If you filled out the required forms at the US Consulate (and donít lose them over the years), your child would be a US Citizen. Doubts exist whether they would also be a ďnatural bornĒ US Citizen.

As far as your kid being a Mexican, I donít know. Iím not sure if Mexico follows the Jus soli principle, thus allowing anchor babies.

jamesob
02-09-2008, 6:17 PM
If you filled out the required forms at the US Consulate (and donít lose them over the years), your child would be a US Citizen. Doubts exist whether they would also be a ďnatural bornĒ US Citizen.

As far as your kid being a Mexican, I donít know. Iím not sure if Mexico follows the Jus soli principle, thus allowing anchor babies.

so if she gives birth over there and i happen to loose some paper work on they way back. as we cross the border would that make me a coyote? lol thats some federal crap there. maybe i should leave my immigrant baby there.

paradox
02-09-2008, 6:56 PM
so if she gives birth over there and i happen to loose some paper work on they way back. as we cross the border would that make me a coyote? lol thats some federal crap there. maybe i should leave my immigrant baby there.

I've heard reports of folks who have lived most of their lives in the States, who had their passport canceled while overseas because both they and the State Department couldnít find their copy of the magic piece of paper.

SchooBaka
02-09-2008, 7:48 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/junkie/archive/junkie070998.htm

"
Some might define the term "natural-born citizen" as one who was
born on United States soil. But the First Congress, on March 26,
1790, approved an act that declared, "The children of citizens of the
United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of
the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the
United States." That would seem to include McCain, whose parents were both citizens and whose father was a Navy officer stationed at the U.S. naval base in Panama at the time of John's birth in 1936.

"He meets the requirement of U.S. citizenship in order to be eligible for president," said McCain spokesperson Nancy Ives. (For the record, McCain says the only thing on his plate is his bid for a third Senate term in November, though he is seen as a shoo-in.) "

Another web site said that this may need to be settled in court. Same issue came up with Goldwater (born before AZ was a state) in 1964

Has anyone found a link to this act on a .gov site?
All I can seem to find are mostly .edu sites.

Jared D
02-09-2008, 8:39 PM
If this was actually true and McCain was not elligible Romney would be kicking himself in the A##. HeHeHe:kest:

SchooBaka
02-09-2008, 9:00 PM
I found it coincidental how Mitt's dad was mentioned in the article.

SemiAutoSam
02-09-2008, 9:36 PM
Well seeing as how Government and the courts still feel the 16th Amendment was correctly ratified I'm sure they wont let a spelling mistake get in their way to say McCain is a Natural Born Citizen.

TO me the term Natural Born Citizen would mean someone that's actually born in one of the 50 states.

But that's just me.

I see being a state Citizen is having its benefits more and more lately.
http://www.originalintent.org/edu/federaljur.php

Since they use a Capital letter in the word Citizen in U.S. Constitution: Article II Section I and they don't in the 14th Amendment to me it would mean that unless someone is a state Citizen they aren't eligible to be President.

But that's taking the Document at its word this site explains it where almost anyone could understand it.

Well anyone but a attorney.
Read these links in the order from top to bottom, That is if you want to know about this topic. If you don't GAD then disregard this info its not meant for you.
http://www.originalintent.org/edu/citizenship.php
http://www.originalintent.org/edu/constitutions.php
http://www.originalintent.org/edu/14thamend.php





http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

ghettoshecky
02-10-2008, 12:05 AM
So i guess i fell asleep browsing the internet last night and when i woke up look at what i saw,


dept of state: McCain not eligible to be president?
Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.
Posted Feb 8, 2008 03:41 PM PST
Category: POLITICS/ELECTIONS/CORRUPTION

Straight from the website of the United States Department of State.

So, with Mitt Romney out, that means we are down to Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee as the leading GOP candidates. :)



http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/citizenship.php

also i had seen a video, somewhat old i think late 90's by a group called VietNam veterans against McCain or POW's against McCain. dont know what i did with the link, you a google it or whatever. I dont find McCain to be a true pro 2A so i am like SWEET.

You know I may not be too hot on McCain, but that man stayed a POW for 6 years (I think) for this country and as far as I am concerned he is a citizen and is eligible to be a president.

berto
02-10-2008, 12:16 AM
You think this slipped by the party, his campaign, rival campaigns, etc?

kap
02-10-2008, 12:22 AM
Has anyone found a link to this act on a .gov site?
All I can seem to find are mostly .edu sites.

Close?

http://rs6.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=001/llsl001.db&recNum=226

Bottom of the page and the next.

SchooBaka
02-10-2008, 11:37 AM
Close?

http://rs6.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=001/llsl001.db&recNum=226

Bottom of the page and the next.

Thank you.
I think Mccain may be looking at a swift boat style attack from a group of pow's; I'm starting to hear some rumblings about his time in Hanoi.

bwiese
02-10-2008, 11:42 AM
Thank you.
I think Mccain may be looking at a swift boat style attack from a group of pow's; I'm starting to hear some rumblings about his time in Hanoi.

Manufactured BS by *******s who weren't there.

This is the lowest form of attack. While there were issues with Kerry (apparently put himself in for a medal after getting a nick, etc. - and then later he turned and aided/abetted the enemy), there are no even remotely similar situations for McCain.

Much of this is blowback from Bush's 2000 campaign (along with McCain having a secret half-black daughter, etc.) in the south - I think it was in the Carolinas.

Many POWs who may be politically different (i.e, to left or right) of McCain have refuted these pure-BS claims about McCain.

SchooBaka
02-10-2008, 12:36 PM
I'm not saying I agree with the tactics; it's just what I'm beginning to hear.

lrdchivalry
02-10-2008, 3:40 PM
If your not a citizen of the U.S. because your born abroad then why does the State Dept. issue U.S. birth certificates to those who were born abroad to U.S. citizens?

I have seen more then one of these certificates in the 10 years I have worked for U.S. Customs/Customs and Border Protection.

bluestaterebel
02-10-2008, 5:27 PM
so if me and my wife go to mexico on vacation and she gives birth in cabo, my kid would be a mexican? give me a break.

i never understood why people would leave the country on vacation when they are about to give birth.

jamesob
02-10-2008, 5:52 PM
[QUOTE=bluestaterebel;993638]i never understood why people would leave the country on vacation when they are about to give birth.[/QUOTE
that was all a joke! nobody in there right mind would do that. i was just showing how stupid the situation would be.:willy_nilly::rolleyes:

F-2_Challenger
02-10-2008, 9:01 PM
Ohh ****, well here comes the billary or obama.

aklover_91
02-11-2008, 1:32 PM
If your not a citizen of the U.S. because your born abroad then why does the State Dept. issue U.S. birth certificates to those who were born abroad to U.S. citizens?

I have seen more then one of these certificates in the 10 years I have worked for U.S. Customs/Customs and Border Protection.

Yer missing the point here.

See, to run for President, you have to be a native-born citizen, as in born in the USA. It's the same reason naturalized immigrants can't run for president.

So, according to that state department dealy, even though McCain is a US citizen, he very well might not qualify as native born, as is required.

Steyr_223
02-11-2008, 1:58 PM
If Clinton is the Dem's candidate look out..The Clinton attack machine is mightly and will use all and any data..Even make stuff up to win..Watch what happens to Obama in the next few months..


An Obama/McCain contest will be more stand up.IMHO..

lrdchivalry
02-11-2008, 2:13 PM
Yer missing the point here.

See, to run for President, you have to be a native-born citizen, as in born in the USA. It's the same reason naturalized immigrants can't run for president.

So, according to that state department dealy, even though McCain is a US citizen, he very well might not qualify as native born, as is required.

Got it!

To bad Romney dropped out.

striker3
02-12-2008, 11:58 AM
From the way it sounds to me, what that is saying is that a non-American giving birth on a US military installation would not grant automatic Citizenship to the child. Since the United States grants Citizenship automatically to the children of US Citizens, it seem logical that those children would be NATURAL BORN CITIZENS. There is nothing that says NATIVE born. Get your quotes straight.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President -- The Constitution of the United States, Article II Section 1