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dfletcher
02-08-2008, 12:39 PM
It doesn't seem like all that long ago I walked into the SJGE and saw all sorts of stripped AR lowers on display & became aware of the success we had through the courts. I think the deliberate and positive way we have asserted our rights is outstanding. I think part of that equation must always be how the other side can also be creative in fighting back.

With that in mind and re the AW laws and magazines, what is the specific, legal definition of a "tool" in CA?

I understand a bullet specifically can be a tool, hence their use as (and the name) a bullet button. However, if a wooden matchstick can be used to work the BB, has that matchstick become a tool or is my BB capable of being operated by something other than a tool? In short, can a tool be whatever item I choose, regardless of how contemporary or improvisational my choice?

Prc329
02-08-2008, 1:03 PM
As long as it is not attached to the rifle.

leelaw
02-08-2008, 1:06 PM
A tool is something aside from a human body part, which is not connected to the firearm.

Screwdriver, celery stick, bullet, plastic dowel, etc..

ETA: I guess the "human body part" is a little too vauge, since technically you could use some dead person's bone.. anyways. It just needs to not be able to be actuated by a living person (ie: must require something smaller than very thin fingers - if you have long fingernails which can fit into a BB and release the magazine, that's not good)

Fjold
02-08-2008, 1:07 PM
I tool is something aside from a human body part, which is not connected to the firearm.

Screwdriver, celery stick, bullet, plastic dowel, etc..

Iggy

leelaw
02-08-2008, 1:20 PM
Iggy

LOL:D

MudCamper
02-08-2008, 1:24 PM
Pretty good definition on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool

But it's moot. Unless it's in the PC or the CCR then it's always open to court interpretation.

dfletcher
02-08-2008, 1:31 PM
Iggy

I swear - I was going to include the line - "Not Iggy, different tool" but I though no one would go for it.

So the law or regulation clearly defines a tool as being any device that can be used to facilitate removal of a fixed magazine?

Here's my hypo & concern: Whether a DA or BOF agent, they pick up a BB equipped AR from it's owner, grab a piece of broken glass and use it to pop out the mag - then assert the mag is not fixed because they didn't need a "tool" to release it. My opinion - and I think it's the one reflected by most of us - is that if I have a nail and board in one hand and a rock in the other and I want to pound the nail into a board, that rock is a tool. I'd just like to see a CA definition, as was done with the pistol grip and flash suppressor terminology.