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View Full Version : WA HOUSE JUDICIARY CASTS VOTE TO STRIP GUN OWNERS OF RIGHT TO JURY TRIAL


aileron
02-06-2008, 10:54 AM
This just sounds so wrong. How can you tell someone they have no rights. Sorry, your Fifth amendment rights are not valid here.

http://www.ccrkba.org/pub/rkba/press-releases/wa.jury.trial.htm


WA HOUSE JUDICIARY CASTS VOTE TO STRIP GUN OWNERS OF RIGHT TO JURY TRIAL

For Immediate Release: February 5, 2008

BELLEVUE, WA – The Washington State House Judiciary Committee cast its votes today to strip Washington gun owners of the right to a trial by jury. Since at least 1959, Washington citizens have had the right to a jury trial with a standard of “clear, cogent, and convincing evidence” before losing their right to bear arms due to being involuntarily committed for an alleged mental health illness.

House Bill 3095, sponsored by Committee Chairwoman Rep. Pat Lantz (D-26), effectively removes these protections by stripping citizens of their right to bear arms, perhaps permanently, after being involuntarily committed for a mere 14 days. In these “probable cause” hearings there is no jury, no elected judge, and the standard of guilt is a mere preponderance of the evidence.

“Setting aside the question of whether or not people should lose their right to bear arms after being involuntarily committed, it is inexcusable to deprive Washingtonians of the fundamental right to a jury trial and a reasonable standard of guilt,” noted CCRKBA Executive Director Mark A. Taff. “What other fundamental rights are our legislators willing to remove without the benefit of a jury trial?”

Taff noted that alleged armed robbers and child molesters have a fundamental right to a unanimous verdict by a jury of their peers with the highest possible standard, “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Even in civil cases, the Washington Constitution dictates that “right of trial by jury shall remain inviolate.”

“We are continuing to work with the legislature to amend this unconstitutional bill to protect two of the most highly regarded rights of Washingtonians: the right to bear arms and the right to a jury,” Taff stated. “While some committee members have made a terrible error by voting to strip gun owners of the right to a jury, there is still time for them to correct their error and amend this bill to respect our fundamental civil liberties.”

“All Washingtonians should contact their legislators to remind them we cherish our civil liberties,” Taff urged.

Voting to strip the right to a jury include Representatives Lantz, Goodman, Flannigan, Kirby, Moeller, Pedersen, & Williams. Voting to respect the right to a jury include Representatives Rodne, Warnick, Ahern, and Ross.

Representative Warnick deserves special credit for her staunch support of basic civil liberties. “We hope Rep. Warnick’s example will encourage the legislature to amend this bill to respect the right to a jury trial, so that all legislators can support this bill in good faith,” concluded Taff.

With more than 650,000 members and supporters nationwide, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is one of the nation's premier gun rights organizations. As a non-profit organization, the Citizens Committee is dedicated to preserving firearms freedoms through active lobbying of elected officials and facilitating grass-roots organization of gun rights activists in local communities throughout the United States. The Citizens Committee can be reached by phone at (425) 454-4911, on the internet at www.ccrkba.org or by email to InformationRequest@ccrkba.org.

mothergreen
02-06-2008, 11:14 AM
so thats how they are going to make room for all the illegals... kick all the gun owners out.

Rob P.
02-06-2008, 1:11 PM
It's not constitutional so anyone who has their rights taken away via this process will be able to bring an action in federal court and get the law overturned.

Once a right is vested it cannot be removed except by due process. Due process for fundamental rights requires a jury or a knowing and voluntary waiver of a jury.

pnkssbtz
02-06-2008, 2:27 PM
It's not constitutional so anyone who has their rights taken away via this process will be able to bring an action in federal court and get the law overturned.

Once a right is vested it cannot be removed except by due process. Due process for fundamental rights requires a jury or a knowing and voluntary waiver of a jury.+1.

PanzerAce
02-06-2008, 3:06 PM
that article seems to be misrepresenting what the law says. It claims that this means that people with guns don't get a jury trial, but from the article, the law itself seems to say that your guns get taken if you are committed....


Ok, after reading the bill, this thread is a bunch of FUD. What the law actually does is bring WA into compliance based on how their laws are written with the portions of US code that prohibit the mentally defective/etc from possessing firearms. I couldn't actually find anything about jury trials or the like....

site for the actual bill for those that want to actually read it and not just rely on smoke and mirrors for their opinions: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=3095&year=2007

mymonkeyman
02-06-2008, 3:13 PM
that article seems to be misrepresenting what the law says. It claims that this means that people with guns don't get a jury trial, but from the article, the law itself seems to say that your guns get taken if you are committed....


Ok, after reading the bill, this thread is a bunch of FUD. What the law actually does is bring WA into compliance based on how their laws are written with the portions of US code that prohibit the mentally defective/etc from possessing firearms. I couldn't actually find anything about jury trials or the like....

site for the actual bill for those that want to actually read it and not just rely on smoke and mirrors for their opinions: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=3095&year=2007

+1 You only have a Federal Constitutional right to a jury trial (in state cases) for criminal prosecutions of serious crimes. You have never had a right to a jury trial for being committed. Yea, the law may suck otherwise, and you may question the smartness of commitment procedures or taking someone's firearms rights away for life after them, but the jury trial issue is pure FUD.

wilit
02-06-2008, 5:57 PM
Well, looks like Washington is getting scratched off the short list of States I wouldn't mind moving to. Too bad too, it's a beautiful state.

socalguns
02-06-2008, 7:32 PM
You know what this sounds like? A precursor to total confiscation:TFH:
Get your tinfoil on :D :TFH:

tombinghamthegreat
02-06-2008, 9:13 PM
This is not a isolated incident but a spreading problem. If the law passes people should not sit and wait to be imprisioned for exerising their rights as a person but stand up when the time comes. Looks like the state learned something about Bush and the Patroit act by putting gun owners in the same group as terriorist. THIS IS THE TIME TO DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS..........before it is too late.

leelaw
02-06-2008, 10:49 PM
that article seems to be misrepresenting what the law says. It claims that this means that people with guns don't get a jury trial, but from the article, the law itself seems to say that your guns get taken if you are committed....


Ok, after reading the bill, this thread is a bunch of FUD. What the law actually does is bring WA into compliance based on how their laws are written with the portions of US code that prohibit the mentally defective/etc from possessing firearms. I couldn't actually find anything about jury trials or the like....

site for the actual bill for those that want to actually read it and not just rely on smoke and mirrors for their opinions: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=3095&year=2007

Worth repeating. It'd be nice if more people read past the first post, or even the title.