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ObeOne
02-06-2008, 9:47 AM
I looked and didn't see this anyplace else.

http://www.760kfmb.com/news/story.php?id=117015
Here is the closest link I could find. it has been on the radio a lot, I have herd it on KOGO (Hedgecock show) last night and KFMB (Roberts show) this morning.
The story from what I understand is that many Republicans had their party mysteriously changed so that they couldn't vote in the presidential primary.:mad:
Doesn’t apply to me since I am not a Cal voter (IL resident, Navy) but it seems pretty wide spread, at least here in San Diego. I have here at least 1000 people have had this issue.
This is definitely shady and doesn't bode well for us as a republic.
Anyone else here about this or have any more info?

DVSmith
02-06-2008, 9:53 AM
It is easy enough to investigate. the registrar of voters can give them a copy of their voter registration card to determine if the signature is in fact theirs.

there was a case in Orange County where paid registration solicitors were changing peoples parties and they were caught and prosecuted.

But I am more suspicious that they were in fact registered decline to state and just voted in the last several Republican primaries. This primary, the state republican party didn't allow decline to state voters the ability to vote in their primary. Some say it was on purpose, others claim it was incompetence and the paperwork didn't make it to the Secretary of State on time. Keep in mind the Secretary of State is a Democrat... not saying anything... just delivering facts.

ObeOne
02-06-2008, 9:59 AM
I understand that.
From what I was hearing on the radio, there were many people who have been registered as Republicans for many years, and when they went to vote, the poling place says they are something else. I guess there have been a bunch of provisional ballets, but this is still pretty suspicious. While they can go back and check afterwards who changed it, it doesn't do them any good at the polling place.
As far as reports, I have herd it on the radio, but not seen it on the net or herd it has made it on TV yet.

ObeOne
02-06-2008, 10:03 AM
I als just herd on the news (1000 KOGO) that the Registar is basicly saying that those voting were stupid and didn't understand the rules.
I guess we will see.

DVSmith
02-06-2008, 10:04 AM
I know someone who worked a polling place this election. She told me that they had several people come in and complain that they had always voted Republican. They were on the roster as non-partisan (effectively decline to state). If there is an issue, I am sure it will come out if they voted provisional. To accept a provisional ballot the registrar has to research the registration and make a determination. If they start finding a suspicious number of changed registrations they will do their own investigation.

Ironchef
02-06-2008, 10:06 AM
Odd since there's no gain for dems to do that since it was a primary election..closed primary even for republicans.

I didn't vote because I'm a "decline to state" and new that this primary was semi-open for the dems (have to be dem or green i think) but most of LA county's "decline to state" people showed up anyway and were turned away, and they should have had the option to still vote and the sec of state said she felt bad and would fix that in the future.

berto
02-06-2008, 10:20 AM
My girlfriend was mysteriously disenfranchised. No longer on the rolls at all.

N6ATF
02-06-2008, 10:22 AM
I was a NP for all elections prior, registered Republican for this primary. I showed up on the sign-in sheet as NP, but showed them my sample ballot which had REP printed on it. They accepted that as proof that I should receive an actual ballot instead of a provisional (which they said may or may not be counted).

My mom thought she was a registered Democrat for years, yet she had NP on her sample ballot and the sign-in sheet, but she was able to vote for a Democrat anyways. Not sure if it was provisional or what - this is the first time I've heard about the Democrats not letting NPs in.

Non-partisan should really allow you to vote for whichever party you want, without getting on the mailing/phone list for any particular party you could register for instead. Once you register for a party, you shouldn't be able to vote in others'.

It seems like in every single election there is alleged voter fraud. I voted on a paper ballot and got a tear-off stub. You'd think this would be auditable enough. But no, because the party registration or non-registration system is so complex, it invites STHTF.

DVSmith
02-06-2008, 10:32 AM
I can almost guarantee that decline to states were not turned away. They would have been told they can't vote a Republican ballot because they Republicans didn't file the paperwork allowing them to, but they could certainly have voted on the propositions or and on the Dem or AIP Primary.

MrTuffPaws
02-06-2008, 10:59 AM
it's amazing how the a political party's infighting can rip it apart.

At least removing people from their party isn't as bad as the ol' invisible ink ink trick.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/779528,CST-NWS-magic06.article

Wildhawk66
02-06-2008, 11:49 AM
My wife had this problem as well. She's a republican and has voted many times as such in the past. When her voter packet didn't arrive with mine, she did some follow-up and found that shes suddenly no longer registered to vote. In fact, when she contacted the registrar, they couldn't find any record of her as having been registered at any time, including after a check under our old addresses.

If this is a wide spread thing, even if it turns out not to be malicious, someones head needs to roll.

DVSmith
02-06-2008, 11:54 AM
My wife had this problem as well. She's a republican and has voted many times as such in the past. When her voter packet didn't arrive with mine, she did some follow-up and found that shes suddenly no longer registered to vote. In fact, when she contacted the registrar, they couldn't find any record of her as having been registered at any time, including after a check under our old addresses.

If this is a wide spread thing, even if it turns out not to be malicious, someones head needs to roll.

Are you in California? If so, what county do you reside in?

Maddog5150
02-06-2008, 11:56 AM
I know someone who worked a polling place this election. She told me that they had several people come in and complain that they had always voted Republican. They were on the roster as non-partisan (effectively decline to state). If there is an issue, I am sure it will come out if they voted provisional. To accept a provisional ballot the registrar has to research the registration and make a determination. If they start finding a suspicious number of changed registrations they will do their own investigation.

That happened to the guy in front of me last night. He was a little upset but the difference was that he was a democrat :TFH:

berto
02-06-2008, 12:20 PM
My wife had this problem as well. She's a republican and has voted many times as such in the past. When her voter packet didn't arrive with mine, she did some follow-up and found that shes suddenly no longer registered to vote. In fact, when she contacted the registrar, they couldn't find any record of her as having been registered at any time, including after a check under our old addresses.

If this is a wide spread thing, even if it turns out not to be malicious, someones head needs to roll.


Are you in Contra Costa County?

Ironchef
02-06-2008, 12:24 PM
I can almost guarantee that decline to states were not turned away. They would have been told they can't vote a Republican ballot because they Republicans didn't file the paperwork allowing them to, but they could certainly have voted on the propositions or and on the Dem or AIP Primary.

They were for democratic voting in LA County last night. By the thousands. I probably would have if I went to the poll but I already thought I couldn't. I love our election process...

Wildhawk66
02-06-2008, 12:31 PM
Santa Clara, CA

Creeping Incrementalism
02-06-2008, 4:01 PM
I last registered as a Republican (sometime back in 2006 I think it was), but was given a non-partisan ballot for this last election. At first I thought that maybe I had forgotten to maintain something to keep my registration status current, and didn't want to deal with the BS surrounding an attempt to get a provisional ballot. But Brian Sussman on KSFO said he was getting large numbers of calls about that, and there is a huge thread on Free Republic about this: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1965899/posts.

Some polling places are reporting 10-20% of Republicans not being shown as such. People who had been registered Republican for decades and always living at the same address and voting in the same place were shown as decline-to-state voters.

I haven't seen any media attention about this, except for Rush who mentioned the Free Republic thread. I called my county clerk's office (Contra Costa) this morning and left a voicemail as they were closed, but haven't heard back yet.

Anyone heard anything else about this or know what is going on?

bohoki
02-06-2008, 4:03 PM
i was almost not going to vote

but i had to stop prop 93
and vote for the huckaburger

Technowizard
02-06-2008, 4:23 PM
This actually happened to me as well. Got my voter's package and it said Independent/Non-Partisan...

I was like WTF? I've been registered as a Republican 10 years now! Went down to county clerks office and they pulled my card out. It was marked "declined to state" with my signature. I raised a brow when I noticed it was a copy, and not an original ink card. Can you say photoshop??? Well needless to say I refilled out another registration card.

To top it off when I got to the polls, they said I was absentee. Now yes, I did do an absentee 3+ years ago when I was deployed, but I had stopped that when I can home. I even declined it on the NEW registration form I filled out to correct my party info. Funny thing is, even if it was never updated... I never did receive an absentee ballot! Just the regular voter/election info packet. Felt fishy to me... :detective:

DVSmith
02-06-2008, 4:58 PM
This actually happened to me as well. Got my voter's package and it said Independent/Non-Partisan...

I was like WTF? I've been registered as a Republican 10 years now! Went down to county clerks office and they pulled my card out. It was marked "declined to state" with my signature. I raised a brow when I noticed it was a copy, and not an original ink card. Can you say photoshop??? Well needless to say I refilled out another registration card.

To top it off when I got to the polls, they said I was absentee. Now yes, I did do an absentee 3+ years ago when I was deployed, but I had stopped that when I can home. I even declined it on the NEW registration form I filled out to correct my party info. Funny thing is, even if it was never updated... I never did receive an absentee ballot! Just the regular voter/election info packet. Felt fishy to me... :detective:

Photoshop??? That's funny. Like they have the time and inclination to photoshop some random voter's registration form.

Liberty1
02-06-2008, 6:25 PM
Yep that happened to me. I posted the story here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=983108#post983108

socalguns
02-06-2008, 8:36 PM
There's no need, they have copy machines

tman
02-06-2008, 9:22 PM
Looks like it's not only effecting long time Republicans, but new ones as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWKxwVZmomc

MustangO4
02-06-2008, 9:24 PM
Hapened to me too!

wceviper
02-06-2008, 9:40 PM
My girlfriend was mysteriously disenfranchised. No longer on the rolls at all.

My Wife had her party changed to independent, and so did her best friend. When she called me after voting and said she didn't recognize any of the names we discussed. Just have to fill out the "Write in" area.

RFNUT
02-06-2008, 9:45 PM
I heard an election official on the radio today state that this was a problem throughout the state. She also stated that the provisional votes are not counted in the primary. Several people called in and stated that they were lifelong Republicans and were listed as Independent or missing from the roles.

One lady said she went to the Registrars office and saw the paperwork where she was changed over and it was not her signature.

Someone else said that sometimes the petitions you see outside grocery stores have that written on the petition and you have to read the entire thing to see it.

I am newly registered in Kaliforny, so I had no problems.

RFNUT
02-06-2008, 9:47 PM
Also many people complained that they were listed as Inactive. Part of my registration was some paperwork that explained that if you don't vote in 2 consecutive elections, they list you as inactive.

daves100
02-06-2008, 10:02 PM
happened to me and a buddy of mine were both in the military also

bbguns44
02-06-2008, 10:04 PM
They should have received sample ballots which shows what they
are registered as. Should have been plenty of time to correct mistakes
if they had paid attention.

DVSmith
02-07-2008, 10:59 AM
OK, a bit of misinformation is floating around out here. First, your party affiliation can NOT be changed by signing a petition. It can ONLY be changed by filling out a new voter registration form.

The only way that a person can be changed from an Active voter to an Inactive voter is through a notice by the Post Office of a change of address to an address outside of the original county of registration (or undeliverable). You are then mailed a postcard (forwardable) to try to establish if you really did move or not. If you are changed to Inactive and go to the polls to vote, you sign an oath of continuing residency and your registration is reactivated (or in some circumstances by voting provisional). If you don't vote in two federal election cycles (basically 4 years) and are inactive, you can be removed from the voter rolls.

There have been documented cases of paid voter registration "bounty hunters" filling out voter registration forms for people and turning them in for payment. If you suspect you have been a victim of this crime, please notify your registrar of voters and ask them to investigate.

Dr. Peter Venkman
02-07-2008, 11:28 AM
I had no problems switching from decline to state to republican for the primary.

Technowizard
02-07-2008, 1:21 PM
Photoshop??? That's funny. Like they have the time and inclination to photoshop some random voter's registration form.

I was just using that as an example... it could be done MUCH easier and faster by other means for a simple document. I know most of these people don't know how to turn a computer on much less use photoshop! :ack2:

DVSmith
02-07-2008, 1:39 PM
I was just using that as an example... it could be done MUCH easier and faster by other means for a simple document. I know most of these people don't know how to turn a computer on much less use photoshop! :ack2:

Still, do you really think anyone at the registrar's office would go through one iota of effort to change your registration? Maybe you should go visit your local registrar and watch them work. Leave the tinfoil hat at home though.

pnkssbtz
02-07-2008, 2:22 PM
They should have received sample ballots which shows what they are registered as. Should have been plenty of time to correct mistakes if they had paid attention.

EXCEPT that the sample ballots had their correct party affiliation. There was no "time" to fix the mistakes because you wouldn't know until you were at the polls.

DVSmith
02-07-2008, 2:30 PM
EXCEPT that the sample ballots had their correct party affiliation. There was no "time" to fix the mistakes because you wouldn't know until you were at the polls.

I am not sure I follow what you are saying here. The sample ballots are mailed out roughly 40 days before the election. Are you proposing that between Christmas and when the rosters were printed (probably two weeks out) that the registrar changed thousands of voters' party affiliation? To what end?

Technowizard
02-07-2008, 5:40 PM
Still, do you really think anyone at the registrar's office would go through one iota of effort to change your registration? Maybe you should go visit your local registrar and watch them work. Leave the tinfoil hat at home though.

Hells NO! I love my tin foil hat!!! :D lol. Seriously though, it was changed and I didn't do it... so somebody had to have done it, didn't just magicly pop itself into existence! That day they showed it to me last month and I filled out the new voter form was the first time I even stepped foot into the county clerks office (had my mother set up my absentee while I was deployed since she works at City Hall anyways, and no she didn't forge my sig). The only other time I ever filled out anything for party affiliation was when I first turned 18 and registered at the DMV.

Not bashing the employees at the Clerks office, heck I've known some of them since grade school. If you think they're the only ones with access to that office though you are sadly mistaken! Just my two cents.

Technowizard

DVSmith
02-07-2008, 5:48 PM
Hells NO! I love my tin foil hat!!! :D lol. Seriously though, it was changed and I didn't do it... so somebody had to have done, it didn't just magicly pop itself into existence! That day they showed it to me last month and I filled out the new voter form was the first time I even stepped foot into the county clerks office (had my mother set up my absentee while I deployed since she works at City Hall anyways, and no she didn't forge my sig). The only other time I ever filled out anything for party affiliation was when I first turned 18 and registered at the DMV.

Not bashing the employees at the Clerks office, heck I've known some of them since grade school. If you think they're the only ones with access to that office though you are sadly mistaken! Just my two cents.

Technowizard

Glad you are attached to the hat, I prefer my propeller beanie :TFH: Just seems weird to me that someone would maliciously change a voter registration that way. I could see your address being change by accident when processing the National Change of Address list or you being cancelled as a deceased by accident while processing the DOH Death List, but change a party? That is pretty obscure from a data entry perspective. The thought of someone breaking in and changing parties doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. First, they couldn't change enough of them to cause a reasonably predictable change in the outcome of an election. Second, if it was someone who knew you and was doing it to annoy you, why pick party? why not just delete your registration completely? Then again, I don't know your friends, so...

Technowizard
02-07-2008, 6:20 PM
Don't have any friends of family which can write my signature. Didn't say anyone broke in either... California Government is one of the most corrupt entities on the plannet, and I don't think they'd need to "break-in" to one of their own buildings. Who knows, I just know that I didn't fill out that form or put my signature on anything election wise in 10 years.
:beatdeadhorse5:

DVSmith
02-07-2008, 6:29 PM
Don't have any friends of family which can write my signature. Didn't say anyone broke in either... California Government is one of the most corrupt entities on the plannet, and I don't think they'd need to "break-in" to one of their own buildings. Who knows, I just know that I didn't fill out that form or put my signature on anything election wise in 10 years.
:beatdeadhorse5:

OK, I'll take your subtle hint and quit trying to convince you that you are in search of a conspiracy that doesn't exist. Best in future elections!

Creeping Incrementalism
03-22-2008, 10:03 PM
My previous post in this thread was in error. I had changed my affiliation a number of times over the years, and all California primaries (before this last one) that I had participated in were open, so I did not notice that I was not Republican, even though I got a Republican primary ballot (for vote-by-mail, I just checked the "Republican" box).

However, just after that post I requested a new voter registration card and filled it in, so now I am absolutely certain that I am registered as a Republican, and I just got the vote-by-mail card saying I am still not registered with any party. It should not take over a month for the people at the registration office to make the changes. :mad:

So check your registrations, folks. Your **** might be still ****ed up.

tgriffin
03-22-2008, 10:12 PM
Dont be so sure that it takes over a month. I work very closely with the contra costa county elections department and they dont get ANYTHING done in a month... if it was within a month of ANY election, all bets are off. Even if it is a little local school district election, that office is SWAMPED. Very poorly managed outfit.

Bucc
03-22-2008, 10:38 PM
Very poorly managed outfit.


That goes without saying.
It's government.
It's probably union.
And it's government.
My voter registration stuff keeps getting lost.
Three years in a row I've had to fill out provisionals.
Nope.... no incompetence there, and yes before anyone pipes up I filled them out correctly and am an eligible voter..... not that THAT matters anymore.
This year I get a orange card asking if I wanna vote Dem or Republican.
I was a Republican for 14 years then decline to state.
I wanna register as a Whig.
My mom works the elections or rather did until this year.
Last year I was informed by the Supervisor at the election that all one need to cast a provisional ballot is a piece of mail with your name on it to an address in the district.
Wow.


I gotta laugh at anyone who would question the veracity of the idea someone in a government office intentionally screwing things up.
Must have never heard of Chicago.

yellowfin
03-23-2008, 5:50 PM
Just how far off is it to have a capable Libertarian party?

Bucc
03-23-2008, 6:25 PM
Just how far off is it to have a capable Libertarian party?

Never.
Libertarianism unfortunately does not lend itself to actually being a party system.
The ideas of Libertarian philosophy are grounded in laissez-faire attitudes and a genuine free market system for the most part.
Political parties seek to control something.
Namely you and the market.
Libertarians offend the mainstream by saying "we know our system works for some and will leave others behind....mostly due to their own personal initiative issues but it works better than your system which is unbalanced and unfair......" in other words a hard sell for the public.
Democrats don't like it because it eliminates nannyism.
Republicans hate it because it deeply indulges personal liberties.
They both hate it because it takes away control on either end.
The problem is Libertarians are too individual to form a party and make it work.
Too many cats to herd so to speak.