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View Full Version : Charges reduced...and then expunged...How long do I have to wait?


dragonphi109
11-18-2013, 10:13 PM
Hi Fellow Calgunners,

On Oct. 28th, 2013. My "wobbler" felony (1) charge was officially reduced to Misdemenors and then ordered to be expundged by the judge and DA.

My question, is that living in Northern California (NOT San Francisco City) How long do I have to wait before the DOJ systems are updated of this reduction and expundgement? I also requested an official certificate of record to send in the event I am to be denied.

However, according to the DOJ and FBI website I only need to send proof if denied. Is there anyway to send it in, like WITH my DROs form, to ensure that I don't get denied? I would really appreciate any advice and or thought on the matter.

CSACANNONEER
11-19-2013, 3:49 AM
LOL. You will probably have to deal with DOJ personally. I highly doubt they will automatically update their system since, I doubt they have any protocol in place to remove people from their prohibited list. I truly doubt that they automatically receive the information from the courts.

edgerly779
11-19-2013, 3:52 AM
librarian will have the answer he is the calguns closet expert. I think he is a defrocked judge in hiding.*(LOL)

Dutch3
11-19-2013, 5:06 AM
DOJ recently did a study and determined that many county courts were not notifying them of events that would place a person ON the prohibited list.

In that light, I doubt that the courts are notifying them when a person is no longer prohibited.

You could file a personal eligibility check with DOJ to see what information they have on your case.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/pfecapp.pdf?

fizux
11-19-2013, 7:28 AM
Your LGS can provide a contact number for DOJ delay/denial inquiries. If you are able to contact a human at DOJ BOF, you can probably fax them a copy of your recent disposition paperwork and ask them how long you need to wait before DROSing your first purchase.

stix213
11-19-2013, 12:24 PM
Rather than buying a gun and crossing your fingers (potentially paying restocking fees, etc if their is a problem with the purchase), just send in a PFEC and find out if there will be a problem yourself.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/pfecapp.pdf

dragonphi109
11-19-2013, 5:29 PM
Luckily not buying a new one, but doing a FTF.

Jess B. Guy
11-19-2013, 6:45 PM
Your attorney could do it by sending in the court's minute order.

homelessdude
11-19-2013, 6:48 PM
If I were you I would make a copy ( keep the original ) and send it to:

Dept. of Justice
Bureau of Criminal Info. and Analysis
P. O. Box 903417
Sacramento, Ca. 94203-4170

Write on the outside of the envelope: ATT. Record Review Unit

It costs almost nothing and helps if the court doesn't send them a copy. If you have your CII # include it with your letter of explanation. It helps them ID you. HIH

JDay
11-21-2013, 7:45 AM
Get a LiveScan "records review" done on yourself. You'll get your record in the mail along with instructions on how to dispute inaccurate information.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

bigpondonly
11-21-2013, 9:39 PM
Did what JDay is referring to....mine just got released 61 days later.

bako88fan
11-21-2013, 9:42 PM
librarian will have the answer he is the calguns closet expert. I think he is a defrocked judge in hiding.*(LOL)

Librarian, kindly keep your frock on.

Canucky
11-21-2013, 9:51 PM
Somebody has to ask" what you do"

IPSICK
11-22-2013, 7:23 AM
Somebody has to ask" what you do"

That's not polite to ask :)

narcolepsy
11-23-2013, 7:52 AM
I once read that if the crime which is reduced under state law to a misdemeanor only has a felony cognate in federal law, i.e., that there is no equivalent federal misdemeanor, then even if it is reduced to a misdemeanor under state law, it is still considered a felony under federal law.

blazeaglory
11-30-2013, 10:17 AM
Yes, courts are SUPPOSED to file all the proper paperwork with the DOJ after a reduction and expungment. But do they? Or does the DOJ take their sweet time or lose the paperwork? Who knows. But yes, the courts usually do file the paper work.

How long it takes, or if they ever actually file the paperwork is another subject. You better call the DOJ and follow up yourself to make sure. Cover Your ***!

ToxicWaste
01-13-2014, 8:39 PM
Mine took 48 hours for the DOJ to update their records, get a copy of the court minute order, and then you can truthfully answer no when it ask if you have ever been convicted of a felony!

dragonphi109
12-25-2014, 6:40 PM
Quick update: earlier in April I filed a petition to overturn the conviction...and because I have not caused any other troubles, own a small business, and now have a family and kids. All charges were initially reduced and THEN expunged from record. This now permitted me to legally own firearms, which I bought almost immediately even the FBI/NICS mailed me a longer that when inquired my record came up approved to purchase.

Str8Shoot3r
12-25-2014, 7:15 PM
I would call CADOJ and let them know. You'll need to fax in case disposition proof to them and Mail the original. Even though they're supposed to update your status, they seldom do...or they're backed up. I had a buddy do this not too long ago. It took about two days to get his status updated in their system.

multigun
12-26-2014, 3:44 AM
You can also apply for a Certificate of Eligibility (COE). Getting one proves you are eligible in the DOJ's eyes.

ez2b
12-26-2014, 3:56 AM
A good friend of mine had his reduced and expunged just like yours a year ago he did not wait but two weeks before he went and bought his gun he did receive a call from DOJ asking about it and he explained and had to give the court records over the phone and everything went fine he now has several guns and is getting his CCW

Cheap Shot
12-27-2014, 8:17 AM
"Please be advised that federal law does not authorize a check of the National Instant Criminal History Background Check
System (NICS) as part of a Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC). Therefore, the results of a PFEC might indicate that
you are eligible to possess and purchase firearms but you could still be prohibited based on information in a federal
database that the California Department of Justice was not authorized to check. "
:mad:

p7m8jg
12-27-2014, 8:26 AM
I always understood that a motion, reduction & expungement under PC 1203.4 does not remove the felony lifetime prohibition from owning or possessing firearms. It says so in the code section (1203.4(a)(2)). Only a Governor rehab and pardon does that.

It also does not seal the court file - it's still a public record that can be seen in a background check (if the company actually goes and looks at the court's physical file). I've read appellate case law on this point.

But I guess I stand corrected according to what people are saying above. Some have had their 1203.4 granted and DOJ allows the firearms purchase through an FFL? Interesting.

I'll have to look at the code section and case law once again when I get back to work.....

In any event, I'd get a COE from DOJ. If they say OK, who am I to cite the law?

ElDub1950
12-27-2014, 8:39 AM
You could file a personal eligibility check with DOJ to see what information they have on your case.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/pfecapp.pdf?

^^ Do that first! If it comes back clean there could still be Fed screw ups to deal with, but if it comes back denied, then you know you have to fix that before you even attempt to buy one.

JDay
12-27-2014, 9:58 AM
^^ Do that first! If it comes back clean there could still be Fed screw ups to deal with, but if it comes back denied, then you know you have to fix that before you even attempt to buy one.
If it comes back clean he's fine. CA DOJ runs NICS and a DROS.

ElDub1950
12-27-2014, 10:23 AM
If it comes back clean he's fine. CA DOJ runs NICS and a DROS.

Thanks for the correction .. don't know why I thought a PFEC wasn't 100% verification, but can't find anything that indicates I was right.

Jason95357
12-27-2014, 10:39 AM
After doing a PFEC, you could apply for an LTC for Utah (4 hour classroom training) or Arizona (California Hunter Safety or an NRA safety class will suffice). Any state LTC process runs a NICS check, plus you get a permit to boot.

RickD427
12-27-2014, 11:28 AM
I always understood that a motion, reduction & expungement under PC 1203.4 does not remove the felony lifetime prohibition from owning or possessing firearms. It says so in the code section (1203.4(a)(2)). Only a Governor rehab and pardon does that.

It also does not seal the court file - it's still a public record that can be seen in a background check (if the company actually goes and looks at the court's physical file). I've read appellate case law on this point.

But I guess I stand corrected according to what people are saying above. Some have had their 1203.4 granted and DOJ allows the firearms purchase through an FFL? Interesting.

I'll have to look at the code section and case law once again when I get back to work.....

In any event, I'd get a COE from DOJ. If they say OK, who am I to cite the law?

You have a correct understanding of the law and of the process.

However, I think that you may be missing the application of Penal Code section 17(b) to the whole process.

There are a lot of folks (and many have posted their experiences in this forum) who have successfully petitioned the court to have their felony convictions reduced to misdemeanors under PC 17(b) and then expunged under PC 1203.4. That works and such folks are lawfully able to purchase and possess firearms if there is no other source of disability.

But the reason this works is because of section 17(b), not because of the expungement. Once the conviction becomes a misdemeanor, the felony disability goes away. All the expungement does is leave a "cleaner" record. Nothing is sealed. A competent investigator will still be able to learn the details of the conviction and subsequent court action.

There are a couple of thinks to keep in mind about the process:

1) It only works for those felonies that are subject to Penal Code section 17(b). These are often referred to using the slang term "wobbler." If the felony offense was not a "wobbler", then the process will not work.

2) If the offense is one of those for which there is a misdemeanor firearms disability, then you still need to wait until the disability time period ends before you can possess firearms.

RickD427
12-27-2014, 11:35 AM
Thanks for the correction .. don't know why I thought a PFEC wasn't 100% verification, but can't find anything that indicates I was right.

El Dub,

I wasn't aware that a PFEC did not capture NICS information. It's good to learn something new here.

At the same time, it's been pretty widely known that a lot of mental health records (primarily 5150 admissions) that have not been reported to DOJ and therefore do not appear in a PFEC check.

The way the law is written, such folks can be charged and convicted of illegal possession, even if DOJ records result in a "clear" PFEC. (Please refer to W+I Code, section 8103 and note the absence of a DOJ record element).

multigun
12-27-2014, 6:26 PM
"Please be advised that federal law does not authorize a check of the National Instant Criminal History Background Check
System (NICS) as part of a Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC). Therefore, the results of a PFEC might indicate that
you are eligible to possess and purchase firearms but you could still be prohibited based on information in a federal
database that the California Department of Justice was not authorized to check. "
:mad:

Go get a FFL03 and a COE. If denied, followup with the respective authorities. Once you have both, nobody is going to turn you down.

They are worth having anyway, for the discounts many places give FFLs and the ease of getting C&R stuff.

Together, they also exempt you from the 1 handgun in 30 days for rule both C&R and modern handguns.

adonis
12-27-2014, 9:44 PM
One thing to remember, the Expungement will not remove all this from your record, the arrest, etc. As was stated, all the case files are still public record. If you do the lifescan don't be surprised when it's all still there.

JDay
12-28-2014, 10:35 AM
Go get a FFL03 and a COE. If denied, followup with the respective authorities. Once you have both, nobody is going to turn you down.

They are worth having anyway, for the discounts many places give FFLs and the ease of getting C&R stuff.

Together, they also exempt you from the 1 handgun in 30 days for rule both C&R and modern handguns.
DOJ killed the 1 in 30 exemption for non C&R handguns a while back. They sent letters to FFL's demanding they stop.

Forewarned
12-28-2014, 10:43 AM
It happens fast, like within a week. But it depends on the county and how fast they work. The court you delt with update their records and that is it. At least that is what appeared to me when I did it. I bought a handgun within a few days of the ruling.