PDA

View Full Version : Home Defense Question from My Wife


Serious*Weapon
11-18-2013, 5:58 PM
My wife posed a very good question and I'm hoping that someone could help me answer because I don't know what the correct answer is.

Is my wife allowed to defend herself with my firearms while I'm away on business or away at work?

My firearms are legally purchased(duh) and are under my name only.

Follow up question, is it possible to purchase a firearm for my wife as a gift, however, is it possible for me to make it a surprise or does she need to be with me? Is there a way to do a quick transfer say if I buy it first?

Thanks.

taperxz
11-18-2013, 6:14 PM
My wife posed a very good question and I'm hoping that someone could help me answer because I don't know what the correct answer is.

Is my wife allowed to defend herself with my firearms while I'm away on business or away at work?

My firearms are legally purchased(duh) and are under my name only.

Follow up question, is it possible to purchase a firearm for my wife as a gift, however, is it possible for me to make it a surprise or does she need to be with me? Is there a way to do a quick transfer say if I buy it first?

Thanks.

Yes, she can defend herself with your firearm.

You could surprise her by "giving her one of your recently purchased firearms"

It would then cost her $20 to register it into her name though. Inter fam, transfer and self registration.

You should take her into the gun store to fit her though.

Beware of the paranoid azz hats that will think you are straw purchasing though. Including here. LOL.

She will need her HSC card anyway, so the surprise may not be one in the end.

Tincon
11-18-2013, 6:20 PM
I would suggest she get an HSC, just to make things easy. Otherwise, she would have as much right to defend herself as you would.

taperxz
11-18-2013, 6:25 PM
I would suggest she get an HSC, just to make things easy. Otherwise, she would have as much right to defend herself as you would.

I would agree with you on this in every situation except for a wife or child in the home using a gun for SD "in the home".

I don't see how an HSC would be a factor with this scenario.

Or I'm wrong....

John Galt
11-18-2013, 6:31 PM
She has every right to defend herself when she is threatened it doesn't matter whose gun it is. Its a legitimate question but sad that our society has gotten to a point where we even need to consider this.

Tincon
11-18-2013, 6:47 PM
I would agree with you on this in every situation except for a wife or child in the home using a gun for SD "in the home".

I don't see how an HSC would be a factor with this scenario.

Or I'm wrong....

Well there is this complicated legal question revolving around the transmutation of firearms as property, limitations thereof, and the definition of "transfer". One to ask your lawyer. But IMO the whole mess is best avoided by both spouses getting an HSC. Even better would be for both to have separate registered guns. But these are nitpicky legal issues around loan/transfer/HSC, nothing to do with self-defense, as John Galt correctly points out.

taperxz
11-18-2013, 7:05 PM
Well there is this complicated legal question revolving around the transmutation of firearms as property, limitations thereof, and the definition of "transfer". One to ask your lawyer. But IMO the whole mess is best avoided by both spouses getting an HSC. Even better would be for both to have separate registered guns. But these are nitpicky legal issues around loan/transfer/HSC, nothing to do with self-defense, as John Galt correctly points out.

I don't think an HSC would be a factor in a good shoot in the home.

I do see where in your opinion it would be one less thing to clean up though;)

bill_k_lopez
11-18-2013, 7:18 PM
Just put 911 on speed dial. Thats what the police are here for, to protect us.

CCWFacts
11-18-2013, 7:32 PM
Is my wife allowed to defend herself with my firearms while I'm away on business or away at work?

Yes.

Follow up question, is it possible to purchase a firearm for my wife as a gift, however, is it possible for me to make it a surprise or does she need to be with me? Is there a way to do a quick transfer say if I buy it first?

Some people here might disagree with me, but I would not purchase a gun with intent to give it as a gift to someone else. I would give that person (your wife or whomever) a gift cert and have her do the purchase directly.

There's a case (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/15/miller-supreme-court-decide-if-buying-gun-lawful-p/) before SCOTUS right now about someone who bought a gun and then gifted it to his uncle. The gift transfer went through an FFL. The buyer was a cop and got an LE discount, and now he has a Supreme Court case with his name on it, and he's waiting to find out their decision.

The BATF really had no better use of their time than to bust a cop who gave a gift to his elderly uncle, and his uncle filled in the proper forms at the FFL? Apparently busting conservative law abiding gun owners on technicalities is, in fact, the top priority over at the BATF, rather than going after gang members and that kind of thing. Wouldn't want to arrest any Obama voters!

Serious*Weapon
11-18-2013, 8:27 PM
Thank you everyone! I had to google a few acronyms and terms but I am wiser for it.

The HSC is just the written test, yes? When I purchased my pistol, I had to present some documentation and took a multiple choice test.

Is it possible to just take that test at anytime or is it only available prior to purchasing the firearm.

Thank you again for all of your knowledge.

P.S.
I'm still trying to understand what a strawman is/does.

Librarian
11-18-2013, 8:44 PM
There's a case (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/15/miller-supreme-court-decide-if-buying-gun-lawful-p/) before SCOTUS right now about someone who bought a gun and then gifted it to his uncle. The gift transfer went through an FFL. The buyer was a cop and got an LE discount, and now he has a Supreme Court case with his name on it, and he's waiting to find out their decision.

The case (Abramski) is a bunch more complicated than that. We might get a clean answer to 'what is a straw purchase' out of it, though.

Serious*Weapon, yes, you may buy a handgun as a gift for your wife; before you give it to her, she needs the HSC; after you give it to her she would file the OPLAW form.

Darto
11-19-2013, 3:31 AM
Best thing is that she goes in and buys the gun, taking the test after purchase during the 10 day wait before delivery. All bases covered, all i's dotted. You should probably go along with her to the gun store so there are two people either of which can decide to walk away if the salesman or the guns do not inspire confidence.

I took the test after purchase, during the 10 day wait, so doing it that way is legal.

After purchase there is 30 days to pass the test and gather the documents (proof of residence), ID, and maybe a gunlock if one is not packed by the manufacturer in the box. After 30 days the DROS expires.

pastureofmuppets
11-19-2013, 3:59 AM
P.S.
I'm still trying to understand what a strawman is/does.

A Strawman Purchase is buying a firearm for someone else - illegal.

Giving her the money to purchase the firearm she chooses… do double check but I believe that's just fine.

Oh, and do let her choose her gun - have her shoot some first and let her figure it out. It will save a lot of hassle down the line and she will most probably very much enjoy the process.

It just may turn out a little more expensive than you plan…

-hanko
11-19-2013, 9:26 AM
A Strawman Purchase is buying a firearm for someone else - illegal.

Giving her the money to purchase the firearm she chooses… do double check but I believe that's just fine.

Oh, and do let her choose her gun - have her shoot some first and let her figure it out. It will save a lot of hassle down the line and she will most probably very much enjoy the process.

It just may turn out a little more expensive than you plan…
Usually, not a bad idea to have knowledge of what you're posting prior to posting. :rolleyes:

Purchasing a weapon for someone else is not illegal per se.

What is illegal (straw purchase) is purchasing a weapon for someone whom you know is not eligible to purchase the weapon himself.

Examples...fugitive, ex-felon, drug addict, etc.

Example...I can purchase a weapon as a gift for wife, friend, etc., legally...assuming they would have no issue purchasing it themselves.

For me to legally transfer it to them, they would need an hsc if it's a handgun.

More info on the BATFE website.

hth

-hanko

Librarian
11-19-2013, 9:37 AM
A Strawman Purchase is buying a firearm for someone else - illegal.



Sigh.

No.

Providing a firearm to an ineligible person is a crime in itself, but that's not the way the current law is being interpreted for 'strawman sale'.

At issue in Abramski is the answer to question 11(a) on the 4473, "a. Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?" Long answer at the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Straw_Purchase -- and off topic for the thread.

Nobody has to like it, or comprehend the why of it; just recognize that that's the way the Feds are prosecuting people.

speedrrracer
11-19-2013, 10:00 AM
100%? Did no one ask if the wife was a prohibited person?

ap3572001
11-19-2013, 10:03 AM
My wife posed a very good question and I'm hoping that someone could help me answer because I don't know what the correct answer is.

Is my wife allowed to defend herself with my firearms while I'm away on business or away at work?

My firearms are legally purchased(duh) and are under my name only.

Follow up question, is it possible to purchase a firearm for my wife as a gift, however, is it possible for me to make it a surprise or does she need to be with me? Is there a way to do a quick transfer say if I buy it first?

Thanks.

100% YES.

Any person who is under attack and is in fear of loosing their life, can use any firearm they can get their hands on .

By the way , buying a handgun with a thought that someone You know may use is NOT A STRAW PURCHASE.

ap3572001
11-19-2013, 10:06 AM
100%? Did no one ask if the wife was a prohibited person?

If a family memebr is a "prohibited person" and they manage to get a hold of a firearm (or any other type of a weapon) to save their life , I see no problem with it.

-hanko
11-19-2013, 10:08 AM
If a family memebr is a "prohibited person" and they manage to get a hold of a firearm (or any other type of a weapon) to save their life , I see no problem with it.
Other maybe than an additional legal burp or 2 v. a good shoot by a "non-prohibited person".

sonofeugene
11-19-2013, 10:37 AM
Surprise here with a nice card with a note inside saying this card is good for one gun and accessories of your choice. What you may think is a good gun for her and what actually is a good gun for her are likely two different things. Let her be involved in making the choice.

Then add a 500 lumen Surefire light and Trijicon HD yellow sights.

Jeepergeo
11-19-2013, 1:08 PM
Get rid of all the complications. Make a date of it. Go to the LGS, get her a HSC, then have her handle the merchandise. When she zeros in on the perfect fit, ask her to start the paperwork. She'll be jazzed. You are on your own for advice regarding the rest of the evening.;)

15 days later, go on another date to pick up her new gun. Then drive to the range and have her break it in. Again, after that date, you're on your own for finishing up the day.:cool:

CCWFacts
11-19-2013, 1:45 PM
Any person who is under attack and is in fear of loosing their life, can use any firearm they can get their hands on .

Not exactly. If you read "how to own a gun and stay out of jail in California" they have a section covering when a prohibited person can legally use a firearm for self-defense. Short answer: yes, a prohibited person can use a firearm for self-defense, but it's under very narrow circumstances. I highly recommend reading that book, especially if you're in any kind of legally complex case, like living with a prohibited person.

db42
11-19-2013, 3:56 PM
My wife posed a very good question and I'm hoping that someone could help me answer because I don't know what the correct answer is.

Is my wife allowed to defend herself with my firearms while I'm away on business or away at work?

My firearms are legally purchased(duh) and are under my name only.

Follow up question, is it possible to purchase a firearm for my wife as a gift, however, is it possible for me to make it a surprise or does she need to be with me? Is there a way to do a quick transfer say if I buy it first?

Thanks.

She can use a gun that doesn't belong to either of you. She is allowed to defend herself with any and all means at her disposal. Which of you legally owns the firearm doesn't factor into it.

EXAMPLE: If I borrowed a gun from a friend and used it to shoot an intruder in my own home, that's completely legal. I was legally allowed to use lethal force - ownership of the weapon isn't a factor.

pastureofmuppets
11-19-2013, 4:08 PM
Damn, I do beg your pardon - I just made a dick of myself didn't I? That'll teach me to post so stupid late and write two thirds of a sentence.

JoshuaS
11-19-2013, 7:12 PM
If a family memebr is a "prohibited person" and they manage to get a hold of a firearm (or any other type of a weapon) to save their life , I see no problem with it.

CA courts agree with you too. They hold that the law against felony possession does not apply in the actual case of self-defense

Trying to remember the case. Man was at a party, some hoodlums attacked, he retreated with a friend in a wheelchair to the bedroom, found the owner's gun and chased off the bad guys. Court held he could not be convicted of the "felon in possession" law

The court cases are more complicated, apparently there may be a duty to retreat in the case of felons, where there would not be for you or I. Though maybe not, latest court case says even a felon may stand his ground.

People v. King (1968), People v. King (1978) and People v. Rhodes (2005)

Serious*Weapon
11-19-2013, 10:11 PM
A Strawman Purchase is buying a firearm for someone else - illegal.

Giving her the money to purchase the firearm she chooses… do double check but I believe that's just fine.

Oh, and do let her choose her gun - have her shoot some first and let her figure it out. It will save a lot of hassle down the line and she will most probably very much enjoy the process.

It just may turn out a little more expensive than you plan…

Thanks for the definition. She won't go to the store by herself. When I took to the range(don't ask me how I got her to go with me) she used a ruger.22 and a G17 gen 3. She's about 100lbs wet and was able to handle both pistols. I would opt for the higher caliber.

100% YES.

Any person who is under attack and is in fear of loosing their life, can use any firearm they can get their hands on .

By the way , buying a handgun with a thought that someone You know may use is NOT A STRAW PURCHASE.

Thanks for the reassurance.

Surprise here with a nice card with a note inside saying this card is good for one gun and accessories of your choice. What you may think is a good gun for her and what actually is a good gun for her are likely two different things. Let her be involved in making the choice.

Then add a 500 lumen Surefire light and Trijicon HD yellow sights.
Haha, I should use a Tiffany's box, huh? She's be so sad. Haha. So funny.

Get rid of all the complications. Make a date of it. Go to the LGS, get her a HSC, then have her handle the merchandise. When she zeros in on the perfect fit, ask her to start the paperwork. She'll be jazzed. You are on your own for advice regarding the rest of the evening.;)

15 days later, go on another date to pick up her new gun. Then drive to the range and have her break it in. Again, after that date, you're on your own for finishing up the day.:cool:
That means I would have to spend time with her.
If you're reading this hon, you know I'm growing very fond of you. ;)

Seriously guys, thanks again for taking the time to inform me and giving my old lady a piece of (legal) piece of mind.

Cheers to you all and save the good ammo for the bad guys!

voiceofreason
11-20-2013, 5:47 AM
Let her buy and register her primary guns under her name.

Same as you for yours.

Provided they are used in a manner that is lawful (ie. self-defense), there likely won't be any issues with which is registered to whom.

Some CCW/LTC/CHL applications require you to list the guns you plan to carry, but between spouses, it likely never comes up.

They will likely both be considered community property if purchased after the marriage began.

ap3572001
11-20-2013, 8:12 AM
Not exactly. If you read "how to own a gun and stay out of jail in California" they have a section covering when a prohibited person can legally use a firearm for self-defense. Short answer: yes, a prohibited person can use a firearm for self-defense, but it's under very narrow circumstances. I highly recommend reading that book, especially if you're in any kind of legally complex case, like living with a prohibited person.

A person who for some reason can not have a firearm , has right to defend their life with any weapon or by any means they can .

INCLUDING WITH A FIREARM.

viet4lifeOC
11-20-2013, 9:44 AM
Skip the "surprise" because it's causing you more headaches than needed.

I also recommend going to the range on more than one occasion....let her try out several gun model, maker, platform. Once she gives you an idea what she wants. Ask her to take the HSC test. Find a store that carries the gun she likes. Bring her to store..surprise her by offering to buy a gun of her choice.

Buying a gun that she doesn't like seems expensive.

Just a suggestion...nothing more.

Serious*Weapon
11-21-2013, 10:23 PM
Skip the "surprise" because it's causing you more headaches than needed.

I also recommend going to the range on more than one occasion....let her try out several gun model, maker, platform. Once she gives you an idea what she wants. Ask her to take the HSC test. Find a store that carries the gun she likes. Bring her to store..surprise her by offering to buy a gun of her choice.

Buying a gun that she doesn't like seems expensive.

Just a suggestion...nothing more.

It's not so much the surprise... Here's a bit of background info about the situation.

The wife isn't thrilled to have firearms in the house but me being the salesman(greatest in the world if you knew where I had to start) and her being logical(better to have it and not needing it vs.needing and not having it, really sunk into her mind), we are able to exercise our 2nd amendment rights without any hassle or drama.

She has no preference, just as long as she can handle the recoil and send a bullet in the right direction, that's all that matters to her. She's shot a ruger .22 and a G17. She was able to handle both.

The thought of buying her the pistol is more for me and my piece of mind. If anything, it's an inconvenience for her to go to Turners or where ever. Even to the range. The whole "surprise" is just to press the fast forward button on the whole process. e.g. "Hey hon, I got this for you. I hope you never have to use it, love ya".

But I appreciate everyone's input and valuable information.

To everyone who chimed in, thank you again.
Really.

TheTallers8
12-01-2013, 4:49 PM
I'm glad someone brought this up as a thread. I have a similar question on this subject. Instead of it being a spouse, how about my mother?

Next month I'm moving out of town temporarily and I own a handgun and shotgun, I wanted to leave the shotgun with her when I'm away for a long time. God forbid if there is a violent and hostile break in and she uses lethal force on the attacker with the shotgun I want to know that she won't get in trouble even though its not under her name.

I guess I have no worries on that then, thanks for the thread Serious*Weapon.

Kid Stanislaus
12-10-2013, 9:45 PM
Just put 911 on speed dial. Thats what the police are here for, to protect us.

Good for you. Now, sell your guns, CHEAP!! (I've got cash!)

autoduel
12-12-2013, 6:12 PM
Having a handgun registered in their name only comes into play if they get arrested for concealed carry of said handgun. Misdemeanor if registered, possible felony if not.
For self defense in the home, it doesn't matter who the gun is registered to.

Best sale
12-14-2013, 2:02 PM
She has every right to defend herself when she is threatened it doesn't matter whose gun it is. Its a legitimate question but sad that our society has gotten to a point where we even need to consider this.

Very Sad indeed…...

Nuuze
12-14-2013, 2:18 PM
All of my guns I own my wife and my kids know about. My wife knows all the combos, both my wife and 15 year old know how to operate and safe handle. If I'm away or not around in the moment of need to defend she knows what to do. He knows to help mom and sissy and defend if necessary until I can get to them. If need be I take full responsibility. To me that's part of gun ownership and family protection. If you don't want that don't give them access to the firearms when you aren't present.

Sakiri
12-14-2013, 10:57 PM
I would agree with you on this in every situation except for a wife or child in the home using a gun for SD "in the home".

I don't see how an HSC would be a factor with this scenario.

Or I'm wrong....

She should have one anyways because this state's stupid about it.

OP, if the guns are in your name, and she's your spouse, she has all rights to use them as well.

Saw something about that somewhere. Her property is your property and vice versa when you're married.

Sakiri
12-14-2013, 11:09 PM
I'd also like to make note that in my home, if someone decides to try breaking in and causing all sorts of problems, I'd hope any guests with brains that can get into the bedroom would grab the shotgun and make it go bang.

I don't care who or what they are. If they're supposed to be here and someone else is not, the person that should be here is authorized to use any of my arms to rectify the situation. I'd rather them shoot if I can't than possibly get killed.

End of discussion on that.

I've taught all of my friends how to shoot and I trust every single one of them with my firearms.

If you can't trust them they're not your friends.

SocalGlockGuy
12-16-2013, 2:46 PM
Prior to Jan 1, 2014 if it is a long gun that you gave your wife or daughter as a gift, she does not need to register anything or fill out any paperwork correct?

JoshuaS
12-16-2013, 5:00 PM
It applies to any longgun that is not a RAR (registered assault weapon) OLL ARs are GTG