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View Full Version : Legality of purchasing, selling and / or owning a SBR Parts Kit in California??


Addax
02-02-2008, 11:09 AM
Hello Everyone,

I could really use some input on this question.

This is a question around my new business, that I am planning to base out of California.

I am wondering if there are any legal issues with a person or company owning a SBR Parts Kit (like a Short Barreled Krinkov Parts Kit) in California, or for a California resident to purchase a SBR Parts kit from a vendor within California or from an out of state vendor.

This is a general question about different SBR Parts kits, and I know that there are 16" barrel Krinkov and other rifle parts kits available, but I would like to know if there is an issue with purchasing, warehousing, owning and selling just a SBR parts kit (no receiver, no assembled high cap magazines, and no FA parts).

One of my concern is the issues possibly around perceived intent to build, and if there are any California laws prohibiting SBR kits from comming into or going out of California only as parts kits.. Not built rifles..

Please note / Things to consider:
NO High Cap Mags come with the parts kits I am looking at purchasing.
NO FA parts come with the parts kits I am looking at.
I am also discussing this with my attorney on Monday.

Thanks in advance for your input/feedback.

Regards,
Chris

Stormfeather
02-02-2008, 11:12 AM
there shouldnt be any issues as Prk doesnt have constructive possesion laws, those only happen on a federal level.

jamesob
02-02-2008, 11:15 AM
there shouldn't be anything wrong there.

ptoguy2002
02-02-2008, 11:20 AM
I'd agree.
As for federal law, you can purchase SBR parts kits no problem (even with the FA parts in them), the end user /purchaser just needs to be [real] careful about what he has and constructive posession issues.
Cali law doesn't deal with any parts or const. pos.
There is a legitimate use of these SBR parts kits, as you can either build a pistol or pin & weld a barrel extension / fake can to make it 16" long and title I.

wilit
02-02-2008, 11:24 AM
I'd agree.
As for federal law, you can purchase SBR parts kits no problem (even with the FA parts in them), the end user /purchaser just needs to be [real] careful about what he has and constructive posession issues.


You have to be pretty careful about dealing in these kits. There was a dealer in another state who had a few virgin Krink kits all poly bagged ready for retail sales, and also had some unbuilt AK receivers in stock. He got popped by the ATF for constructive possession. Not sure what happened to the guy, not even sure the arrest was legit, but it's definitely something to be cognizant of.

Fjold
02-02-2008, 11:28 AM
there shouldnt be any issues as Prk doesnt have constructive possesion laws, those only happen on a federal level.

CA does have constructive possession for SBRs
12020 c 2 says:

(2) As used in this section, a "short-barreled rifle" means any of
the following:
(A) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in
length.
(B) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(C) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an
overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less
than 16 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed
cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in
subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to
convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C),
inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in
subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, may be readily assembled if
those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same
person.


There is no constructive possession for AW's but SBRs and SBSs are different

Addax
02-02-2008, 11:37 AM
So if I stock up on Krinkov Parts Kits that have a short barrel, and I warehouse them in California for sale say to dealers or individuals nationwide, that is not constructive possession since I am not building or going to be selling any type of receiver what so ever, just the parts?

Or do I just bypass these Short Barreled kits an only stock up on 16" Krink kits (as an example)?

C.G.
02-02-2008, 11:50 AM
So if I stock up on Krinkov Parts Kits that have a short barrel, and I warehouse them in California for sale say to dealers or individuals nationwide,


You're going to get busted unless you get AW permit and good luck on getting that permit.

bwiese
02-02-2008, 4:25 PM
there shouldnt be any issues as Prk doesnt have constructive possesion laws, those only happen on a federal level.

WRONG Sorry, Storm, CA DOES indeed have "constructive possession" phrasing in 120020 definitions for SBRs, SBSes, the 12200PC MGs definitions and fort DDs (at least explosive components, which is why I worry about BS Tannerite crap).

CA just doesn't have constructive possession clauses for AW matters, that's all. (Which is why we can build up OLLs.)

But CA law echoes the Fed laws on constructive possession of SBR, SBS, MG stuff.

It is legal to have a parts kit or shorty bbl or shorty upper for an SBR if you don't own the appropriate receiver or rifle for it. If you owned a legit pistol, then you could own one or more shorty replacement bbls for it, however - but it'd smell really bad if you owned 10 AK clones, 1 legal AK pistol but had 10 AK shorty bbls.

I am unclear if dealer biz inventory + personal possession of AK/receiver could form an exclusion but I wouldn't bet my *** on it.

Frankly, I myself wouldn't be within 1000ft of an FA fire control groups or shorty bbls.

If you have an AR rifle or AR receiver, you should not have an SBR or pistol upper or short bbl for it - unless you had an AR pistol (the latter of which are fairly rare in CA).

If you are ordering, say, AK parts kits be very careful, and I recommend a written order to confirm you don't want FA fire control parts. I think it's wisest to order a parts kit before you own a receiver or matching gun the shorty upper or FA fire control group could fit onto.

Addax
02-02-2008, 6:49 PM
Thanks Bill, and everyone else for their input.

Well, looks like I will just have to skip on physically owning, stocking and selling Short barreled parts kits in California.

I have been planning on eventually opening up a Nevada operation (Dealer/Distributor Firearms business), and I may have to push up those plans...





WRONG Sorry, Storm, CA DOES indeed have "constructive possession" phrasing in 120020 definitions for SBRs, SBSes, the 12200PC MGs definitions and fort DDs (at least explosive components, which is why I worry about BS Tannerite crap).

CA just doesn't have constructive possession clauses for AW matters, that's all. (Which is why we can build up OLLs.)

But CA law echoes the Fed laws on constructive possession of SBR, SBS, MG stuff.

It is legal to have a parts kit or shorty bbl or shorty upper for an SBR if you don't own the appropriate receiver or rifle for it. If you owned a legit pistol, then you could own one or more shorty replacement bbls for it, however - but it'd smell really bad if you owned 10 AK clones, 1 legal AK pistol but had 10 AK shorty bbls.

I am unclear if dealer biz inventory + personal possession of AK/receiver could form an exclusion but I wouldn't bet my *** on it.

Frankly, I myself wouldn't be within 1000ft of an FA fire control groups or shorty bbls.

If you have an AR rifle or AR receiver, you should not have an SBR or pistol upper or short bbl for it - unless you had an AR pistol (the latter of which are fairly rare in CA).

If you are ordering, say, AK parts kits be very careful, and I recommend a written order to confirm you don't want FA fire control parts. I think it's wisest to order a parts kit before you own a receiver or matching gun the shorty upper or FA fire control group could fit onto.

adamsreeftank
02-03-2008, 2:14 AM
Thanks Bill, and everyone else for their input.

Well, looks like I will just have to skip on physically owning, stocking and selling Short barreled parts kits in California.

I have been planning on eventually opening up a Nevada operation (Dealer/Distributor Firearms business), and I may have to push up those plans...

The same constructive posession issues apply at the Federal level in Nevada as would apply at the state level in CA, as the laws are essentially the same. Bottom line - deal in non-standard parts kits or firearms, but not both. I suppose in NV you might be able to get an appropriate type of dealer or manufacturer permit to avoid the problem, but I don't know that for sure.

Addax
02-03-2008, 9:01 AM
I suppose in NV you might be able to get an appropriate type of dealer or manufacturer permit to avoid the problem, but I don't know that for sure.

Yes, in NV, I would have to set up a shop out there, and obtain the necessary ffl (dealer and mfg). Since if I set up a shop out there, then I am going to get into mfg. rifles.