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Steyr_223
02-02-2008, 11:18 AM
Interesting..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080202/ap_on_el_pr/obama;_ylt=AjWpawRKmLXddUgd6qSwQdth24cA



By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 1 minute ago

BOISE, Idaho - Democratic Sen. Barack Obama assured Western voters Saturday he believes in Jesus as well as the rights of gun owners.
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The presidential candidate warned people about hoax e-mails they may get saying he's secretly a Muslim who might want to destroy the United States.

"I've been going to the same church for 20 years, praising Jesus," the Illinois senator told more than 10,000 people packed into Boise State's basketball arena. He is a member of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.

Obama's crowd and his mention of God was notable in Idaho, one of the smaller prizes among the 22 states holding Democratic presidential campaign contests on Super Tuesday. Idaho's caucuses offer 18 Democratic delegates to the national convention.

Obama urged those at the rally not to believe everything they hear about him.

"We've heard the usual sort of smear campaigns. I don't know if they've trickled up to Iowa," Obama said to laughter from the crowed, then quickly corrected himself. "Idaho. I know they were in Iowa.

"They send out these e-mails saying, 'You know Obama, he's a Muslim and he doesn't pledge allegiance to the flag,'" he said. "Don't try to just insult not just me but people of the Islamic faith by playing on people's fears. I know who I am.

"And then there are people who say, 'well he doesn't believe in the Second Amendment,' even though I come from a state we've got a lot of hunters in downstate Illinois. And I have no intention of taking away folks' guns."

Obama didn't mention that he does support gun control and has a record of voting for it in the Illinois Senate. He backed limiting handgun purchases to one a month, but he made no attempts to ban them. Today, he stands by his support for controls while trying to reassure hunters that he has no interest in interfering with their access to firearms.

aileron
02-02-2008, 11:21 AM
Interesting..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080202/ap_on_el_pr/obama;_ylt=AjWpawRKmLXddUgd6qSwQdth24cA



By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 1 minute ago

BOISE, Idaho - Democratic Sen. Barack Obama assured Western voters Saturday he believes in Jesus as well as the rights of gun owners.
ADVERTISEMENT

The presidential candidate warned people about hoax e-mails they may get saying he's secretly a Muslim who might want to destroy the United States.

"I've been going to the same church for 20 years, praising Jesus," the Illinois senator told more than 10,000 people packed into Boise State's basketball arena. He is a member of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.

Obama's crowd and his mention of God was notable in Idaho, one of the smaller prizes among the 22 states holding Democratic presidential campaign contests on Super Tuesday. Idaho's caucuses offer 18 Democratic delegates to the national convention.

Obama urged those at the rally not to believe everything they hear about him.

"We've heard the usual sort of smear campaigns. I don't know if they've trickled up to Iowa," Obama said to laughter from the crowed, then quickly corrected himself. "Idaho. I know they were in Iowa.

"They send out these e-mails saying, 'You know Obama, he's a Muslim and he doesn't pledge allegiance to the flag,'" he said. "Don't try to just insult not just me but people of the Islamic faith by playing on people's fears. I know who I am.

"And then there are people who say, 'well he doesn't believe in the Second Amendment,' even though I come from a state — we've got a lot of hunters in downstate Illinois. And I have no intention of taking away folks' guns."

Obama didn't mention that he does support gun control and has a record of voting for it in the Illinois Senate. He backed limiting handgun purchases to one a month, but he made no attempts to ban them. Today, he stands by his support for controls while trying to reassure hunters that he has no interest in interfering with their access to firearms.

Who cares about hunters, its shooters that are threatened by Obama at the moment. I think its important that politicians and the general public understand the difference.

Kali_M14
02-02-2008, 11:30 AM
Right you are sir!!the second ammendment isn't about hunting!

Who cares about hunters, its shooters that are threatened by Obama at the moment. I think its important that politicians and the general public understand the difference.

moulton
02-02-2008, 11:43 AM
Zumbo alert

pepsi2451
02-02-2008, 12:03 PM
Who cares about hunters, its shooters that are threatened by Obama at the moment. I think its important that politicians and the general public understand the difference.

He knows the difference, he just doesn't care. He knows most shooters won't vote for him. He is trying to get the Zumbo votes.

jamesob
02-02-2008, 12:19 PM
he will try and pass laws where you can only hunt with a muzzleloader. ban everything else.

odysseus
02-02-2008, 12:35 PM
A lot of talk in an election year to a base that he knows looks at him wary in this regard.

Jeez, what do you think? Actions speak louder than words? I smell something coming from the cow pasture...

otalps
02-02-2008, 12:51 PM
If you had Obama speak into a jar you could have Jenkem in a week.

Shane916
02-02-2008, 12:52 PM
he will try and pass laws where you can only hunt with a muzzleloader. ban everything else.

Indeed. It would defintely be exciting by leveling the playing field out :D

Cato
02-02-2008, 1:03 PM
Hunting rifles are always the last to go. He probably won't get around to that anyway.

A Hussein in the White House....God help us.










.

CCWFacts
02-02-2008, 1:40 PM
Those are outright lies. He doesn't want to take away our access to guns. Um, unless those guns happen to be semi-autos, or something else he doesn't like. If he's serious he'll come out and say, "I support licensing systems, as a way to prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands, but I will oppose any ban on any type of gun, and I will support shall-issue licensing for concealed carry." That achieves what he claims is his objective (stopping illegal gun transfers) while preserving our right to own and carry what we choose.

I'm one of the 80% of gun owners who are not hunters.

Ford8N
02-02-2008, 2:25 PM
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions

* Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
* Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
* Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.

Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998


http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm


Democrats in Idaho :confused:

Steyr_223
02-02-2008, 2:43 PM
"Democrats in Idaho"

We are in every state..There are even some on Calguns.net. Some here are out, some are in the closet.

odysseus
02-02-2008, 2:55 PM
"Democrats in Idaho"

We are in every state..There are even some on Calguns.net.

Cool, and yes since we are on CalGuns.net, what say you to the positions of Obama\Hillary on the 2nd Amendment and gun ownership? Are you in favor of their positions of further banning and limitations (infringement) on gun ownership? Do you believe the literal translation of the 2nd Amendment applying to people, and not the National Guard (as is the position of powerful figures in the Dem party)? What say you as a Democrat party member?

CCWFacts
02-02-2008, 3:05 PM
Cool, and yes since we are on CalGuns.net, what say you to the positions of Obama\Hillary on the 2nd Amendment and gun ownership?

Their positions are far from universal in the Dem party. Most of the Dems in the House and Senate wish Hillary and Obama would zip their lips on the gun issue. And in fact Hillary has backed away from it as a policy issue, for that reason.

The situation with the Dems is that the current core leadership (the Clintons, some powerful senators) are unable to think rationally about it, and the rest of the Dem politicians outside of California and New York wish that they would shut up about it because it's holding them back from winning elections. Fact is, both Gore and Kerry lost their shots at the Whitehouse in large measure due to them taking on the NRA. Many Dems understand this. And beyond that, many Dems are pro-gun-rights for the same reasons all of us here are.

(Btw I'm not a Democrat.)

dixieD
02-02-2008, 3:32 PM
Their positions are far from universal in the Dem party. Most of the Dems in the House and Senate wish Hillary and Obama would zip their lips on the gun issue.

I unfortunately think that this is not because of their opposition to H&O on the issue, nor that they think our rights should not be infringed, but rather they have recognized that the best approach is to whittle away under the radar.

Davidk
02-02-2008, 3:34 PM
I can't believe he invokes his hate whitey church.
I think his pastor will haunt him in the end.

Hoop
02-02-2008, 3:39 PM
A lot of talk in an election year to a base that he knows looks at him wary in this regard.

Jeez, what do you think? Actions speak louder than words? I smell something coming from the cow pasture...

Yeah no sh*t.

"I GO TO CHURCH EVERY DAY AND LIKE GUNS VOTE FOR ME IDAHOANS!"

chris
02-02-2008, 3:41 PM
Who cares about hunters, its shooters that are threatened by Obama at the moment. I think its important that politicians and the general public understand the difference.

wrong answer. that is exactly what they want. divide and conquer. if you don't stand with hunters then we are doomed. i hunt and target shoot. that statement will be the death of us. if you won't stand with them, then they won't care about you.

stand together or hang alone. this is one team one fight. they want to stop the shooters then hunters are last. get the picture?

CCWFacts
02-02-2008, 3:44 PM
I unfortunately think that this is not because of their opposition to H&O on the issue, nor that they think our rights should not be infringed, but rather they have recognized that the best approach is to whittle away under the radar.

In some cases, that's a correct assessment. Some Dems don't want to hear about gun control, because they want to get in power, and no other reason.

But there are definitely some Dems, including for example NRA member Howard Dean, and many others at the high levels of the party, who are genuinely pro-gun-rights, just like people here on this forum. Take a look at SB 388, the national reciprocity bill. There are quite a few Dem co-sponsors. You can't tell me that they are signing onto pro-gun bills like that so that they can whittle away at our rights. They are doing it because their constituents (who are Democrats presumably) demand it, and because they believe in it.

otalps
02-02-2008, 4:03 PM
While your point about Dems may be true, I still believe they are a small minority. I wouldn't put Howard Dean in that group.

"I support the assault weapons ban," Dean said at the Boston debate. "I do not support the elimination of liability for gun owners. I support background checks. And I support background checks for people who buy guns at gun shows."

Steyr_223
02-02-2008, 4:18 PM
I was a supporter of Bill Richardson this year. There are many Dems like me that strongly support the 2nd. I strongly disagree with Hilldog and Obama on their restrictions on firearms. Obama is better then Hilldog..

http://www.ontheissues.org/Bill_Richardson.htm#Gun_Control

* No guns for mentally ill or those with criminal background. (Jul 2007)
* Attack poverty at the core of gun violence. (Jul 2007)
* Assault weapons ban did not work; despite his vote for ban. (May 2007)
* Endorsed by NRA for governor; would accept endorsement again. (May 2007)
* The 2nd Amendment is precious. (Apr 2007)
* Endorsed by NRA; has his own concealed carry permit. (Oct 2006)
* We should ally with pro-gun recreationists in West. (Apr 2005)

http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm#Gun_Control

* I know how to use guns; but I don't own one. (Nov 2007)
* Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)
* Don't hold gun manufacturers liable for crimes. (Sep 2007)
* Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and ammunition types. (Sep 2007)
* Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks. (Aug 1999)
* Supports ban on certain assault weapons. (Aug 1999)
* Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban. (Aug 1999)
* Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos. (Aug 1999)
* Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights. (May 1999)
* Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids. (May 1999)
* Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998)
* Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
* Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
* Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
* Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
* Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
* Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm#Gun_Control

* Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
* Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
* Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

http://www.ontheissues.org/Mitt_Romney.htm#Gun_Control

* I support the work of the NRA, but disagree sometimes. (Dec 2007)
* Ok to ban lethal weapons that threaten police. (Dec 2007)
* Supports Second Amendment rights but also assault weapon ban. (May 2007)
* Will support assault weapons bill and Brady Bill. (Aug 1994)

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm#Gun_Control

* Get assault weapons & guns off the street. (Jul 2007)
* Background check system could prevent Virginia Tech massacre. (Apr 2007)
* FactCheck: VA Tech shooter not declared a danger to others. (Apr 2007)
* Congress' failure at Littleton response inspired Senate run. (Nov 2003)
* Keep guns away from people who shouldn’t have them. (Sep 2000)
* Limit access to weapons; look for early warning signs. (Sep 2000)
* License and register all handgun sales. (Jun 2000)
* Tough gun control keeps guns out of wrong hands. (Jul 1999)
* Gun control protects our children. (Jul 1999)
* Don’t water down sensible gun control legislation. (Jul 1999)
* Lock up guns; store ammo separately. (Jun 1999)
* Ban kids’ unsupervised access to guns. (Jun 1999)
* Get weapons off the streets; zero tolerance for weapons. (Sep 1996)
* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
* Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)

CCWFacts
02-02-2008, 4:25 PM
Bill Richardson is a great example. I would probably have voted for him for pres. His support for the 2A is genuine and solid. Can't say that for a certain Republican senator from Arizona.

The problem with the Dems isn't the Dems. It's their current generation of core leadership (the Clintons and their friends) who get foamy at the mouth on this issue.

Our concern should be preserving and expanding gun culture here in California. California leads the nation in many trends, and if gun culture dies out here, eventually so few people will care about our rights that it will be hopeless. Part of protecting our rights here is going to be making a point of including Democrats. If we can get both parties to support our rights, we will be solidly safe, and we'll be able to make voting decisions on other, bigger issues.

Btw I am a single-issue voter; I will only ever vote for a politician, at any level, who solidly supports my gun rights. I sat out the last city council election in my city here because none of the candidates could give me a clear statement on city-level CCW reform, for example.

gazzavc
02-02-2008, 4:54 PM
Btw I am a single-issue voter; I will only ever vote for a politician, at any level, who solidly supports my gun rights. I sat out the last city council election in my city here because none of the candidates could give me a clear statement on city-level CCW reform, for example.


Here here brother !!

+10000

SchooBaka
02-02-2008, 5:10 PM
Did he use the ol fake accent trick?

"I aint no waaays tiiiiirred!" Hillary Clinton

Piper
02-02-2008, 6:26 PM
Obama is an Illinois democrat which means that if he says the sky is blue, I'm going to go outside and check.

Stanze
02-02-2008, 6:35 PM
Obama is a twit.

Here's a quote from a pro-gun Dem that got it:

"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important."

-Senator John F. Kennedy, April 1960

dixieD
02-02-2008, 7:07 PM
Obama is a ****.

Here's a quote from a pro-gun Dem that got it:

Yeah that is a great quote, and now people are comparing Obama to JFK. Unbelievable. I'd like to make a flyer that compares positions on major issues for JFK and OBama. I think it would show how much the Democratic party has drifted.

otalps
02-02-2008, 7:08 PM
Richardson is good example of a pro gun d, I agree.

Who cares if Obama is better than Hillary he's still s*** . He cares nothing for individual rights. He has only been in congress for what 2 years? He hasn't even had time to have the record of Hillary yet. They are both of the same mold.

The problem with the Dems goes further than just the "core leadership (the Clintons and their friends)." Gun control at one time was a platform supported by them as a party. Ted Kennedy endorsed Obama and he is among the most vile human beings in the party, anti gun and not a clintonite. The problem stems from those that support the party "because of other issues."

Until there is a majority of Dems in power that believe in the individual right to keep and bear arms they as a party will only hide the issue because they know it's a losing prospect and they will still be the party trying to whittle away the 2nd. Just look at the difference between parties during the primaries. Romney has to stick to just being pro second amendment, Obama has to qualify the issue with his support for background checks and hunting. There is a huge difference between the majority of the base between the 2 parties. In the last election all the Dem candidates were attacking Dean on his rating from the NRA and Dean is by no means a pro 2nd amendment politico.

dfletcher
02-02-2008, 7:11 PM
"And then there are people who say, 'well he doesn't believe in the Second Amendment,' even though I come from a state — we've got a lot of hunters in downstate Illinois. And I have no intention of taking away folks' guns."

Let's have a running total here. Exactly what gun control can he be for without him having specifically not told the truth in the above statement?

He could be for a ban on all future sales of all firearms. He could be for a buy back. That's not "taking away" anyone's guns.

And he could take away everyone's guns - not now having the intent doesn't mean he won't change his mind in the future. Or he could simply allow others to take away guns.

And he never said he believes in the 2nd Amendment. He said people say he doesn't believe in it, he said Illinois has alot of hunters. So?

I know not every person who owns a gun is a "gun owner" in the way many of us are. But any "gun owner" who believes this guy will not take away guns, eliminate future sales as much as possible is fooling themself.

troyus
02-02-2008, 7:14 PM
Hunting rifles are always the last to go. He probably won't get around to that anyway.

A Hussein in the White House....God help us.

.

There is no logic in using names to decide who is leadership material. By your logic only people with the last name of Washington would make an ideal candidate. This is child-like reasoning.

Anyway... before I'd vote for Obama I'd want to hear him say "I will not attempt to ban semi automatic firearms." Taking away guns is one thing - not allowing anyone to obtain anymore is another thing.:rolleyes:

dixieD
02-02-2008, 7:47 PM
In some cases, that's a correct assessment. Some Dems don't want to hear about gun control, because they want to get in power, and no other reason.

But there are definitely some Dems, including for example NRA member Howard Dean, and many others at the high levels of the party, who are genuinely pro-gun-rights, just like people here on this forum. Take a look at SB 388, the national reciprocity bill. There are quite a few Dem co-sponsors. You can't tell me that they are signing onto pro-gun bills like that so that they can whittle away at our rights. They are doing it because their constituents (who are Democrats presumably) demand it, and because they believe in it.

Well I wasn't following S 388 or HR 861 so I did a little research. From the Library of Congress and Senate sites I discovered that including the original sponsor S 388 has 28 sponsors and HR 861 has 84. For S 388 4 are Dems representing 8% of the 49, and the 24 Repubs represent 49% of the 49 in the Senate. For HR 861 there are 83 sponsors (including the original sponsor). Of these 16 are Dems and 67 are Repubs, representing 7% and 34% of the total number of the respective number of reps from each party in the House. So while there were some Dems supporting I wouldn't call it quite a few. Obama, Clinton and Edwards obviously were not sponsors, nor was McCain. I also found the following vote count for the Feinstein Amendment to extend the Assault Weapons ban 10 more years. There were 52 Senators in favor and 47 against. The Yeas were 81% Dems, and the Neas 87% Repubs. McCain voted no, while Clinton and Edwards voted yes. A number of the Dems that voted no were the same ones that co-sponsored S 388 so they do seem to be believers. Although Obama wasn't in the Senate at the time his opinion on the sunset of the Assault Weapons ban was registered, "I believe we need to renew--not roll back--this common sense gun law."

I am really discouraged by the numbers. We need to get a lot more Dems on our side. It really seems that voting Repub is better for gun rights by a pretty large margin.

dixieD
02-02-2008, 7:55 PM
.....The problem stems from those that support the party "because of other issues..... I totally agree with this. For me basic constitutional protections are a number one issue for me. All others are meaningless if we loose the Bill of Rights.