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EOD Guy
10-17-2005, 6:05 AM
WIth the new format, I am seeing a lot of questions on the California regulations on C&R firearms. Here is a short explanation I wrote to try and clear some of the fog from the California Penal Code.

There is a lot of confusion around concerning the California regulations on C&R Firearms. The first thing to remember is that California, with few exceptions, requires all firearms transfers in the state to be processed through a dealer [Penal Code 12072(d)]. There is no exception for C&R FFL holders. There is however, an exception to the dealer transfer requirement for C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. [PC 12078(t)(2)] This exception is available to anyone legally able to possess firearms. California doesn’t care if you are licensed or not, that’s a Federal matter. The 50 year rifle and shotgun exception is the reason that C&R FFL holders in California can receive these types of firearms directly from an out of state supplier.

The California definition for a C&R firearm is exactly the same as that used by BATF in 27CFR. California references both Title 18 and 27 CFR for the definition. If the Feds say a firearm is C&R, so does the California DOJ.

There are a couple of exceptions to the firearms laws that are available to C&R FFL holders. If the licensee also holds a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) from the California DOJ, they are exempt from the 10-day waiting period when buying C&R firearms from a dealer. [PC 12078(t)(1)] The same C&R FFL holder with a COE is also exempt from the one handgun a month law for both C&R and modern handguns. [PC 12072(a)(9)(B)] You also would not need a handgun safety certificate when purchasing C&R handguns. [PC 12807(a)(6)]


Where the C&R FFL comes in handy is when the holder is out of the state. They may purchase any C&R firearm and bring it back to California. The exceptions of course include those “evil” “assault weapons”. Also, magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds cannot be brought back. Any C&R handguns purchased must be registered with the California DOJ within 5 days and are reported on Form BCIA 4100A along with a $19.00 payment for each handgun. [PC 12072(f)(3)]

Telpierion
10-17-2005, 3:52 PM
Can this be a sticky? It is by far the best explanation of CA C&R rules on the web.

Can'thavenuthingood
10-17-2005, 8:23 PM
This isn't making sense to me
A person needs a Handgun Safety Certificate to purchase a modern firearm, but not for one that is 50 years old?
Am I confused here?

I'm retired from the Marines so a handgun safety certificate is a new animal for me. I don't have one, but my wife had to get one.

So regardless of how I get a handgun, I have to pay the extortion fee, whether through the FFL's DROS fee's or the BCIA form 4100 ($19) ?

Just a simple book, with big letters would be helpful.

Vick

EOD Guy
10-18-2005, 5:37 AM
This isn't making sense to me
A person needs a Handgun Safety Certificate to purchase a modern firearm, but not for one that is 50 years old?
Am I confused here?

I'm retired from the Marines so a handgun safety certificate is a new animal for me. I don't have one, but my wife had to get one.

So regardless of how I get a handgun, I have to pay the extortion fee, whether through the FFL's DROS fee's or the BCIA form 4100 ($19) ?

Just a simple book, with big letters would be helpful.

Vick


You do seem confused on a couple of points.

Since you are retired from the Marines, you are exempt from the requirement that you have a handgun safety certificate. See Penal Code 12807(a)(10).

A handgun safety certificate (or exemption) is still required for the purchase of a C&R handgun that is more than 50 years old. One of the exemptions to that requirement is holding a C&R FFL and a COE. See Penal Code 12807(a)(6).

The BCIA 4100A form is only used by C&R FFL holders who purchase C&R handguns while out of the state.

I have been working with Federal and State regulations for several decades. There is one thing you have to understand about them. Trying to use logic or common sense when reading them will only get you in trouble.

icormba
10-19-2005, 1:37 PM
would this be an applicable question for the topic at hand?

1) If I'm out of state and buy a couple C&R rifles with my 03FFL, can I ship them to my house back in California? (if they are under 50 years old?)

2) If I'm visiting my sister for a few weeks in Oregon and happen to get a "specials" email from a C&R vendor that shows some 1 day only sales. Can I order from the internet from her house and have them shipped to my house in Ca? (if they are under 50 years old?)

I thinking #2 is more of a no? but I'm not 100% sure? Does the act of buying something in California mean I have to be in California? Is it when I purchase/pay or is it when/or where I take delivery that counts?

maxicon
10-19-2005, 2:19 PM
- With a C&R license, you can buy C&R rifles out of state and bring them back if they have no banned features. You can ship them back to your house once you've bought them.

If they're less than 50 years old, it's a bit grey. You're following Federal law when you buy them, and you can bring personal long guns back into the state with no issues assuming no banned features. Federal law states you have to follow the law in both states (buyer's and seller's), so this could prevent you from buying a less than 50 year old C&R in another state, as CA needs it to go through an FFL. By strict interpretation of this, you also couldn't buy a Yugo SKS and remove the grenade launcher before shipping it to CA, since the grenade launcher is against California law (plus it's not 50 years old yet), but people frequently do this.

- You can order from any location, as long as it's shipped to your house. C&R vendors generally won't ship to an address other than the one on your license. It's taking delivery that counts, as I understand it.

Any thoughts or clarifications on the 50 year old grey area are welcome...

max

EOD Guy
10-20-2005, 1:25 PM
- With a C&R license, you can buy C&R rifles out of state and bring them back if they have no banned features. You can ship them back to your house once you've bought them.

If they're less than 50 years old, it's a bit grey. You're following Federal law when you buy them, and you can bring personal long guns back into the state with no issues assuming no banned features. Federal law states you have to follow the law in both states (buyer's and seller's), so this could prevent you from buying a less than 50 year old C&R in another state, as CA needs it to go through an FFL. By strict interpretation of this, you also couldn't buy a Yugo SKS and remove the grenade launcher before shipping it to CA, since the grenade launcher is against California law (plus it's not 50 years old yet), but people frequently do this.

- You can order from any location, as long as it's shipped to your house. C&R vendors generally won't ship to an address other than the one on your license. It's taking delivery that counts, as I understand it.

Any thoughts or clarifications on the 50 year old grey area are welcome...

max

There is no gray area.

Their is no legal requirement for a C&R FFL holder to follow California law when purchasing C&R firearms of any age while outside the state. The Federal requirement to follow the laws of the two states only applies to unlicensed individuals.

California has no problem with C&R holders purchasing C&R firearms in another state as long as they don't bring back any banned items such as "assault weapons" or magazines with over 10 round capacity. Their only requirement is to register handguns within 5 days of bringing them into California. They even have a special form just for that purpose.

EOD Guy
10-20-2005, 1:30 PM
would this be an applicable question for the topic at hand?

1) If I'm out of state and buy a couple C&R rifles with my 03FFL, can I ship them to my house back in California? (if they are under 50 years old?)

2) If I'm visiting my sister for a few weeks in Oregon and happen to get a "specials" email from a C&R vendor that shows some 1 day only sales. Can I order from the internet from her house and have them shipped to my house in Ca? (if they are under 50 years old?)

I thinking #2 is more of a no? but I'm not 100% sure? Does the act of buying something in California mean I have to be in California? Is it when I purchase/pay or is it when/or where I take delivery that counts?

It's where you take delivery. That is when the firearm is transferred to you.

icormba
10-20-2005, 1:41 PM
cool! I knew EOD would be along soon! thanks!