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View Full Version : Is it just me or does 922r not matter for fixed mag rifles?


virulosity
01-30-2008, 6:54 PM
I did some searching around here on CA legal SKS issues and found a thread where everyone told the OP that in order to have a dragunov style stock on his yugo that he would have to have 10 or less imported parts. I can't find this law anywhere that says a fixed mag rifle is unimportable with any amount of evil features.

The reason I am asking is I have a yugo that I have removed the GL, GL sights, night sights and added a dragunov stock with a fixed mag. Do I or do I not need US parts? I have a fixed magazine with a pistol gripped stock and threaded barrel. I am only asking about federal compliance.
My US made mag feeds so horribly I want to go back to stock.
Thanks!

redneckshootist
01-30-2008, 7:45 PM
you still need to comply with 922r regulations. I would go with us mad piston, gas tube, and dust cover instead of the us made mag.

http://www.rifletech.com/compliant_parts.htm

virulosity
01-30-2008, 7:46 PM
Where are you getting that information? What is the specific law?

redneckshootist
01-30-2008, 7:49 PM
you posted to fast and didnt give me time to add the link:p

virulosity
01-30-2008, 7:52 PM
sorry :hide:

AJD
01-30-2008, 9:19 PM
You do NOT need to play the 10 parts game if you're just adding a Dragunov style stock. I posted this in the other thread, but simply changing the stock on an SKS does not violate 922r. It does not take the SKS out of its "sporting arm" classification with the ATF. If you added a folding or telescopic style stock that would violate 922r.

bohoki
01-30-2008, 9:41 PM
You do NOT need to play the 10 parts game if you're just adding a Dragunov style stock. I posted this in the other thread, but simply changing the stock on an SKS does not violate 922r. It does not take the SKS out of its "sporting arm" classification with the ATF. If you added a folding or telescopic style stock that would violate 922r.

what about the c&r part would the rifle still be a curio with an ati or other polymer thumbhole stock?

SemiAutoSam
01-30-2008, 9:44 PM
He gave the law but Just didn't link you to it.

Here is the law and where you can read about it.
I found the text on page 28 or there abouts of the PDF file.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/geninfo.pdf

19. ASSEMBLY OF NONSPORTING SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLES AND
SHOTGUNS FROM IMPORTED PARTS
Section 922(r), Title 18, U.S.C., makes it unlawful for any person to
assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is
identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section
925(d)(3) of the GCA. Regulations implementing the law in 27 C.F.R. 178.39
provide that a violation of section 922(r) will result if a semiautomatic
rifle or shotgun is assembled with more than 10 of the following imported
parts:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunnions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates
Section 922(r) does not prohibit the importation, sale, or possession of
parts which may be used to assemble a semiautomatic rifle or shotgun in
violation of the statute. However, 18 U.S.C. § 2 provides that a person who
aids or abets another person in the commission of an offense is also
responsible for the offense. Therefore, a person who sells parts knowing that
the purchaser intends to use the parts in assembling a firearm in violation of
section 922(r) would also be responsible for the offense.
It should be noted that a violation of section 922(r) may result even if
the assembled rifle or shotgun does not meet the definition of "semiautomatic
assault weapon" in the GCA. For example, a person who assembled an SKS rifle
with a folding stock and fixed magazine would violate section 922(r), since
the SKS would have more than 10 of the imported parts specified in the
regulation. However, the SKS rifle with a fixed magazine would still not be
regulated as a "semiautomatic assault weapon."












Where are you getting that information? What is the specific law?

AJD
01-30-2008, 9:48 PM
It would no longer hold its C&R status by changing the stock. So while it doesn't violate 922r you can lose the C&R status according the the ATF. But changing the stock isn't something that is irreversible, so I guess you could just change it back to stock later on if that's a concern. Here's a great site that explains a lot of the legal stuff regarding the SKS.

http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html

By scrolling down and clicking on the modifications summary there is a chart that lays it out very well.

virulosity
01-30-2008, 9:57 PM
I guess what I am getting at is that an sks without a bayonett or grenade launcher is considered a sporting rifle (i think) because it doesn't have any non-sporting features.

daskraut
01-30-2008, 10:07 PM
Fixed mag and non-folder or collapsing is AOK, just don't ask the guys on the SKS forums, they think a wood screw change will get you arrested for 922R violations....

bohoki
01-30-2008, 10:10 PM
I guess what I am getting at is that an sks without a bayonett or grenade launcher is considered a sporting rifle (i think) because it doesn't have any non-sporting features.

the only way the yugo,albanian,russian sks's were allowed to enter was because they were declared c&r by the atf

so if say sig sauer made an sks would it be allowed to be imported?

i think the atf would allow it if it didnt have the bayonet mount or grenade lauching capability

the whole 922r thing confuses me a bit since all chinese rifles are unimportable arent they by being here breaking section 922r as any configuration is unimportable now

since we deal with whatever whims and opinions the batfe it would all depend on them and unfortunatly some people get contradictory responces from them

years ago a magazine i think from the nra had a whole sks expose

about how you could comply with 922r and have a detachable magazine if you ground off the bayonet lug and install it in a montecarlo stock

unfortunatly times have changed and there is an import regulation about capable of using high capacity magazines

but in california only assault registered sks's can use detachable magazines

hmm that brings up another question i'm gonna post search "sks with detachable magazine"

Mssr. Eleganté
01-30-2008, 10:40 PM
Also keep in mind that military surplus firearms are unimportable unless they are Curios or Relics in original military configuration.

All SKS's are military surplus firearms except for the commercial Chinese versions.

A military surplus SKS placed in a new "sporting" stock would be unimportable.

Putting your already imported military surplus SKS into a new "sporting" stock might be considered assembling from imported parts a semiautomatic rifle which is identical to any rifle prohibited from importation.

virulosity
01-31-2008, 12:21 AM
What doesn't make sense to me then is how WASRs, PSL, AK, etc are imported to this day.

bohoki
02-01-2008, 12:33 PM
What doesn't make sense to me then is how WASRs, PSL, AK, etc are imported to this day.


they are imported with a receiver that is incompatable with the wide mags when they get to the importers they change enought parts for it to be 922r compliant us made and enlarge the mag area of the receiver

thisismyboomstick
02-26-2008, 8:16 PM
they are imported with a receiver that is incompatable with the wide mags when they get to the importers they change enought parts for it to be 922r compliant us made and enlarge the mag area of the receiver

I thought the single stack WASR's did not use any US parts because they aren't considered "non-sporting". Only "non-sporting" rifles have to play the 922r game.

Does anyone know what the federal definition of "non-sporting" is as it applies to rifles? I've seen several people state that a fixed mag FAL or AK doesn't need any US parts added.

bwiese
02-26-2008, 11:11 PM
I guess what I am getting at is that an sks without a bayonett or grenade launcher is considered a sporting rifle (i think) because it doesn't have any non-sporting features.

You should not have night sights or a flash hider either. Threaded bbl may be considered a military feature too (unsure, it's been awhile) - so dethreading or a welded-on thread protector may also be necessary.

If imported as a C&R and then you make changes, it loses C&R status and the 922(r) '10-or-less' game applies unless you rendered it 'nonsporting'.
[If you broke something like the stock, replacing it with a functional equivalent with similar contours might be OK.]

SemiAutoSam
02-26-2008, 11:17 PM
Where is this restricted in law ?

Fed or State ?



You should not have night sights or a flash hider either. Threaded bbl may be considered a military feature too (unsure, it's been awhile) - so dethreading or a welded-on thread protector may also be necessary.

If imported as a C&R and then you make changes, it loses C&R status and the 922(r) '10-or-less' game applies unless you rendered it 'nonsporting'.
[If you broke something like the stock, replacing it with a functional equivalent with similar contours might be OK.]

NeoWeird
02-27-2008, 12:23 AM
I'm glad Ammendment caught it (by the way, your next post is 1776!). The problem with the SKS is that it's a military surplus firearm and would not be allowed to be imported if it wasn't for the C&R status. Once you change it from original factory configuration you lose C&R status, it's no longer legally in imprtable configuration and you need to either restore it to it's original configuration or play the 922r game and get 10 parts into it. WASR's are not military surplus, but rather a commercial firearm based off a military design (such as an AR-15). WASR's however have a slimmer mag well to accomodate only 10 round magazines to get importable as a sporting purpose firearm. Once they hit US shores the importer, most commonly Century International Arms, adds in parts and opens the mag well.

As for parts, I personally believe that original factory condition only applies to the parts listed as parts of a firearm. Since items like Sling, night sites, etc are not listed as firearm parts then it doesn't matter if they are changed or not as they are more accessories than parts. On the same page though, putting on a muzzle brake or putting in a match trigger, under that logic, would remove it's original configuration. In any event, it's just best to play it safe and play the 922 game if you are going to start changing major parts. Do you really want to risk federal prison and never owning firearms over $50-100 worth of parts? And if $50-100 is a big deal, then maybe you shouldn't be modifying your gun (not aimed at the OP, just a general rule of thumb for everyone, myself included) especially since you don't have the money for ammo if you can't spare $50-100 our of your budget.

And SAS, I think Bill is referring to the Yugo's orignal configuration.

mymonkeyman
02-27-2008, 12:47 AM
Also keep in mind that military surplus firearms are unimportable unless they are Curios or Relics in original military configuration.

All SKS's are military surplus firearms except for the commercial Chinese versions.

A military surplus SKS placed in a new "sporting" stock would be unimportable.

Putting your already imported military surplus SKS into a new "sporting" stock might be considered assembling from imported parts a semiautomatic rifle which is identical to any rifle prohibited from importation.

You are right that they are unimportable, but 922(r) doesn't ban assembly of everything that is unimportable, it only bans things that are unimportable because they would be non-sporting.


(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes


If removing the C&R status makes it unimportable as a military surplus weapon, that doesn't necessarily violate 922(r) if the modifications do not make the rifle non-sporting. I dont' think there is any section other than 922(r) that enforces criminal sanctions on assembling based on that which you could not import.

simonov
02-27-2008, 8:46 AM
I guess what I am getting at is that an sks without a bayonett or grenade launcher is considered a sporting rifle (i think) because it doesn't have any non-sporting features.

That's your opinion, and only your opinion.

The problem with 922(r) is there is no list of non-sporting features, it is entirely at the whim of the BATFE. In general, both the BATFE and gun collectors have referred to the features list of the 1994 Federal assualt weapon ban. But this is just a form of shorthand and does not constitute a legal definition of any kind.

Any thread like this is simply speculation and idle chat. You will find no definitive answers. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it given how the BATFE seems to use 922(r) exclusively to empower its regulation of firearms as they are imported, and hasn't (so far) gone after Bubba Gun Guy for tricking out his AKs and SKSes. Aside from the fact that cheap plastic Druganov stocks look horrible on SKSes, there's probably nothing to worry about.

If, on the other hand, you are worried, then a thread like this can do nothing to make you feel any better. There is no answer. If you have misgivings, don't do it. Your rifle will look better.

thisismyboomstick
02-27-2008, 9:07 AM
So somebody convince me that a fixed mag or featureless AK/FAL build is considered non-sporting while a single stack (detatchable mag no less) WASR isn't.

Otherwise I'm going to stop wasting money on US parts for my builds.