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Patriot
01-30-2008, 1:57 PM
http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=291484&

Wednesday, January 30, 2008

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Sens. Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) and Jack Reed (D-RI) today joined with law enforcement officials, a Virginia Tech shooting victim, families of Virginia Tech victims and Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, to announce the introduction of new legislation to close the “Gun Show Loophole.”

“It defies common sense that a loophole in federal law lets unlicensed dealers sell firearms at gun shows without running a background check on the buyer. Our legislation would require background checks for every gun purchased at every gun show across America. Without this change in the law, felons, fugitives and severely mentally ill people will continue to be able to buy guns – no questions asked,” said Sen. Lautenberg.

“If we are serious about preventing gun violence in our nation, then we must close the gun show loophole. I am pleased that the International Association of Chiefs of Police and law enforcement officials are endorsing this effort. They are in the front lines every day and know firsthand the importance of closing the loophole,” said Sen. Reed.

In 1993, the Brady Law was passed requiring prospective purchasers of guns sold by federal firearms licensees, like gun shops and pawn shops, to go through a background check. However, a loophole in current law allows people to purchase guns from unlicensed dealers at gun shows without going through a background check. The ATF reports that between 25 to 50 percent of firearm vendors at gun shows are unlicensed.


As a result of this loophole, convicted felons, fugitives, domestic abusers, and other people who are prohibited by federal law from owning guns are able to purchase firearms at gun shows. For example, the two teenagers who shot and killed 12 students and one teacher at Columbine High School in 1999 used guns obtained from gun shows.

In 1999, Sen. Lautenberg introduced the first bill to close the gun show loophole. Later that year, in the wake of the Columbine tragedy, the Senate passed Sen. Lautenberg’s legislation to close the gun show loophole as an amendment to a juvenile justice bill. The legislation passed by one vote, with Vice President Gore casting the tiebreaking vote. However, the gun lobby killed the legislation in House-Senate conference.

The Lautenberg-Reed bill would close the lingering loophole by requiring background checks on all sales at gun shows. The bill defines a gun show as any event where 50 or more guns are offered or exhibited for sale.

The effort to close the gun show loophole has attracted broad support. The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has endorsed the Lautenberg-Reed bill. According to press reports, Michael J. Sullivan, acting director of the ATF, recently said that President Bush has indicated he would support a measure to close the loophole.

The Lautenberg-Reed measure is cosponsored by Sens. Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Diane Feinstein (D-CA), Edward Kennedy (D-MA), John Kerry (D-MA), Charles Schumer (D-NY), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Daniel Inouye (D-HI), Carl Levin (D-MI) and Barbara Boxer (D-CA).

Bill text added below

tgriffin
01-30-2008, 2:06 PM
The way I read that, if this goes through, say good-bye to "FTF PPT sans FFL" nation wide.

762cavalier
01-30-2008, 2:13 PM
lets unlicensed dealers sell firearms at gun shows

Uh no it doesn't . an Unlicensed DEALER would be thoroughly butt-reamed if caught. what they are talking about is face to face PPT's which are legal.

For example, the two teenagers who shot and killed 12 students and one teacher at Columbine High School in 1999 used guns obtained from gun shows.

This statement is misleading. the two didn't buy the guns themselves as no one would have sold to them. someone else broke existing law and obtained the firearms they used and gave/sold it to them.One of those people was arrested.

The anti's have been spouting off about the "gunshow loophole" for some time. It's just another scare tactic in a long list of obfuscations to villify guns:rolleyes:

troyus
01-30-2008, 2:16 PM
What the ^&%$ do gun shows have to do with the Virginia tech massacre?

Nothing. :mad:

Patriot
01-30-2008, 2:23 PM
What the ^&%$ do gun shows have to do with the Virginia tech massacre?

Nothing. :mad:

But if you associate them in the public eye...

"The V-Tech gunman obtained guns even though he had a history of mental problems"
"The V-Tech gunman passed a background check"
"The V-tech gunman was able to buy guns because of a gun law loophole"
"The V-tech tragedy is due to gun law loopholes"
"Another school shooting was due to gun law loopholes - Columbine"
"School shootings are due to gun law loopholes"
"If we close gun law loopholes, we can prevent school shootings"
"The Columbine guns were bought at a gun show without a background check"
"No background check? It's a loophole that must be closed"
"Support background checks at gun shows, no exceptions, no compromise!"

Never mind that the V-tech killer passed a background check.

otalps
01-30-2008, 2:24 PM
Just look at the cosponsors. That last line reads like an answer to a Jeopardy question. A good reason to never vote democrat?


Sens. Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Diane Feinstein (D-CA), Edward Kennedy (D-MA), John Kerry (D-MA), Charles Schumer (D-NY), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Daniel Inouye (D-HI), Carl Levin (D-MI) and Barbara Boxer (D-CA).
:D

johnny_22
01-30-2008, 3:05 PM
"Dear johnny_22,

Virginia Tech survivor Lily Habtu joins Senators Lautenberg (NJ) and Reed (RI) at press conference to announce new Senate bill aimed at closing the gun show loophole.

We started this year with a huge victory * thanks to you and our many allies * with a new law that will strengthen the Brady criminal background check system!

Now we need to keep up the momentum and take the next logical step: make sure that everyone who wants to buy a gun gets a background check.

Earlier today, Senator Lautenberg (NJ) introduced legislation that will keep criminals and other dangerous people from buying and selling guns without Brady criminal background checks at gun shows.

Gun shows should not be a haven for convicted felons, domestic violence abusers, or someone who is dangerously mentally ill who wants to evade a background check. Letting criminals and other prohibited purchasers get away with buying guns at gun shows is at odds with common sense, and recklessly puts lives at risk. We believe the law should be "no background check, no gun, no excuses."

CLICK HERE TO EMAIL YOUR SENATORS NOW
Urge Them to Support Senator Lautenberg's Bill to Close the Gun Show Loophole"

Guess we should ask them to leave it alone. Since there is NO loophole. All gun laws are followed at gun shows throughout the USA.

RRangel
01-30-2008, 4:24 PM
Every one of those anti-gun legislators pushing this poor excuse for removal of American rights should leave this country and represent some totalitarian regime. This is an overt attack on gun rights nationwide.

NO THANK YOU LITTLE CASTRO'S.

Ironchef
01-30-2008, 4:32 PM
I don't get it. What is the actual loop hole, if any? And what is their proposed fix?

hawk1
01-30-2008, 5:03 PM
I don't get it. What is the actual loop hole, if any? And what is their proposed fix?

The loop hole is you can buy a gun. They want to stop that. PERIOD!
You have to stop getting caught up in the minutiae of trying to understand their choice of words. They use their words like Virginia Tech and Columbine just to get people to associate what happened there with gun ownership and make you and me out to be the weirdos. :mad:

Scarecrow Repair
01-30-2008, 5:38 PM
The loop hole is you can buy a gun. They want to stop that. PERIOD!

Geez, calm down. your explanation is worse than useless. I too don't know what their loophole is either claimed to be or actually is. You would do a better service by either saying nothing or saying something useful.

hawk1
01-30-2008, 7:01 PM
Bottom line that is exactly what they want. Why spend time trying to figure out why they are saying it the way they do.
For specifics I quote;
It defies common sense that a loophole in federal law lets unlicensed dealers sell firearms at gun shows...

This is you and me doing a PPT a few years ago, or if we lived in any state other than California now. So as I said, they want to stop us from buying firearms. Their "loophole", as they call it, allows firearms to go "unregistered". As they get closer to the point of confiscation, they need to know where to go to collect the firearms. If you think thats an exaggeration, then read up on how they conducted the confiscation in Australia recently;

...Explaining her success in disarming licensed Australian gun owners of their registered semi-auto or pump shotguns and self-loading rifles, she said: (Rebecca Peters)

“… [M]ost illegal guns are simply legal guns that have been stolen or sold second-hand. Since the supply source for the illegal market is legal owners, imposing greater accountability on legal owners will cut down the flow to the illegal market.”

“Accountability?” In her words, that’s when government “recognized the inherent inappropriateness of these highly dangerous weapons and took away nearly 700,000 of them to be melted down into soup cans and bus-stop benches … .”

source:
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=196&issue=55

If you don't like the way it sounds, your welcome to go ahead and bury your head in the sand a little longer...

RRangel
01-30-2008, 7:09 PM
For those who don't understand, do a little homework. Elimination of the private sale of firearms is what they're after. California has already eliminated the "gun show loophole" that's why you need to go to a FFL in this state for every transaction be it new or used.

Those in most other states do not because they still have some freedoms left. The anti's goal is trying to create this at the federal level and they're deceptive. These liars are calling you selling your own property a "loophole" get it?

6172crew
01-30-2008, 7:14 PM
Where I live I can buy a gun from anyone PPT if that person is from the same state and I can do the same without a FFL. This is for PPT only and doesnt include new firearms.

They want to do away with that law.

dfletcher
01-30-2008, 8:19 PM
I'm glad they sponsored this - let's get it front & center during the campaign so we can find out who's for & against. Instead of Mrs Obama opining that if she lived in the boonies (not that there's anything wrong with that) she might want to have a gun, and folks latching on to that as though it is anything other than a deliberate attempt to lessen her hubby's bad gun rep. Let all the "Blue Dog Dems" who got in last time around be for or against on the record.

socalguns
01-31-2008, 10:36 PM
You probably already know, but they're prohibitionists/abolitionists.
Just like those folks who push for higher taxes on cigarettes/alcohol/gambling,
their ultimate goal is complete abolition, and they realized a long time ago that a direct ban would never work, so they're going for a gradual ban.

MikeWilliamson
02-01-2008, 6:28 AM
The ATF reports that between 25 to 50 percent of firearm vendors at gun shows are unlicensed.

LYING !@#$ING !@#$ING !@#$ERS !@#$ING !@#$ING #$ER@#$ERS.:mad:

Of course, consider the acting head of ATF is literally in bed with Laughtenburg and Scummer...

Luckily, his appointment is stalled in Congress. Write and reinforce that.

SecondAmendmentgirl
02-01-2008, 8:18 AM
The loop hole is you can buy a gun. They want to stop that. PERIOD!


Ultimately

Patriot
02-01-2008, 1:10 PM
Bill text ( thomas.loc.gov )

Gun Show Background Check Act of 2008 (Introduced in Senate)

S 2577 IS

110th CONGRESS

2d Session

S. 2577

To establish background check procedures for gun shows.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

January 30, 2008

Mr. LAUTENBERG (for himself, Mr. REED, Mr. MENENDEZ, Mrs. FEINSTEIN, Mr. KENNEDY, Mr. KERRY, Mr. SCHUMER, Mr. WHITEHOUSE, Mr. INOUYE, Mr. LEVIN, and Mrs. BOXER) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL

To establish background check procedures for gun shows.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Gun Show Background Check Act of 2008'.

SEC. 2. GUN SHOW BACKGROUND CHECK.

(a) Findings- Congress finds that--

(1) approximately 5,200 traditional gun shows are held annually across the United States, attracting thousands of attendees per show and hundreds of Federal firearms licensees and nonlicensed firearms sellers;

(2) traditional gun shows, as well as flea markets and other organized events, at which a large number of firearms are offered for sale by Federal firearms licensees and nonlicensed firearms sellers, form a significant part of the national firearms market;

(3) firearms and ammunition that are exhibited or offered for sale or exchange at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events move easily in and substantially affect interstate commerce;

(4) in fact, even before a firearm is exhibited or offered for sale or exchange at a gun show, flea market, or other organized event, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which it is manufactured have moved in interstate commerce;

(5) gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events at which firearms are exhibited or offered for sale or exchange, provide a convenient and centralized commercial location at which firearms may be bought and sold anonymously, often without background checks and without records that enable gun tracing;

(6) at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events at which guns are exhibited or offered for sale or exchange, criminals and other prohibited persons obtain guns without background checks and frequently use guns that cannot be traced to later commit crimes;

(7) since the enactment of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Public Law 103-159; 107 Stat. 1536) in 1993, nearly 70,000,000 background checks have been performed by Federal firearms licensees, denying guns to 1,360,000 illegal buyers;

(8) many persons who buy and sell firearms at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events cross State lines to attend these events and engage in the interstate transportation of firearms obtained at these events;

(9) gun violence is a pervasive, national problem that is exacerbated by the availability of guns at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events;

(10) firearms associated with gun shows have been transferred illegally to residents of another State by Federal firearms licensees and nonlicensed firearms sellers, and have been involved in subsequent crimes including drug offenses, crimes of violence, property crimes, and illegal possession of firearms by felons and other prohibited persons; and

(11) Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution of the United States, to ensure, by enactment of this Act, that criminals and other prohibited persons do not obtain firearms at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events.

Patriot
02-01-2008, 1:11 PM
Bill text - Continued

(b) Definitions- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(36) GUN SHOW- The term `gun show' means any event--

`(A) at which 50 or more firearms are offered or exhibited for sale, transfer, or exchange, if 1 or more of the firearms has been shipped or transported in, or otherwise affects, interstate or foreign commerce; and

`(B) at which--

`(i) not fewer than 20 percent of the exhibitors are firearm exhibitors;

`(ii) there are not fewer than 10 firearm exhibitors; or

`(iii) 50 or more firearms are offered for sale, transfer, or exchange.

`(37) GUN SHOW PROMOTER- The term `gun show promoter' means any person who organizes, plans, promotes, or operates a gun show.

`(38) GUN SHOW VENDOR- The term `gun show vendor' means any person who exhibits, sells, offers for sale, transfers, or exchanges 1 or more firearms at a gun show, regardless of whether or not the person arranges with the gun show promoter for a fixed location from which to exhibit, sell, offer for sale, transfer, or exchange 1 or more firearms.'.

(c) Regulation of Firearms Transfers at Gun Shows-

(1) IN GENERAL- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`Sec. 932. Regulation of firearms transfers at gun shows

`(a) Registration of Gun Show Promoters- It shall be unlawful for any person to organize, plan, promote, or operate a gun show unless that person--

`(1) registers with the Attorney General in accordance with regulations promulgated by the Attorney General; and

`(2) pays a registration fee, in an amount determined by the Attorney General.

`(b) Responsibilities of Gun Show Promoters- It shall be unlawful for any person to organize, plan, promote, or operate a gun show unless that person--

`(1) before commencement of the gun show, verifies the identity of each gun show vendor participating in the gun show by examining a valid identification document (as defined in section 1028(d)(3)) of the vendor containing a photograph of the vendor;

`(2) before commencement of the gun show, requires each gun show vendor to sign--

`(A) a ledger with identifying information concerning the vendor; and

`(B) a notice advising the vendor of the obligations of the vendor under this chapter;

`(3) notifies each person who attends the gun show of the requirements of this chapter, in accordance with such regulations as the Attorney General shall prescribe; and

`(4) maintains a copy of the records described in paragraphs (1) and (2) at the permanent place of business of the gun show promoter for such period of time and in such form as the Attorney General shall require by regulation.

`(c) Responsibilities of Transferors Other Than Licensees-

`(1) IN GENERAL- If any part of a firearm transaction takes place at a gun show, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not licensed under this chapter to transfer a firearm to another person who is not licensed under this chapter, unless the firearm is transferred through a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer in accordance with subsection (e).

`(2) CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS- A person who is subject to the requirement of paragraph (1)--

`(A) shall not transfer the firearm to the transferee until the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer through which the transfer is made under subsection (e) makes the notification described in subsection (e)(3)(A); and

`(B) notwithstanding subparagraph (A), shall not transfer the firearm to the transferee if the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer through which the transfer is made under subsection (e) makes the notification described in subsection (e)(3)(B).

`(3) ABSENCE OF RECORDKEEPING REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this section shall permit or authorize the Attorney General to impose recordkeeping requirements on any nonlicensed vendor.

`(d) Responsibilities of Transferees Other Than Licensees-

`(1) IN GENERAL- If any part of a firearm transaction takes place at a gun show, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not licensed under this chapter to receive a firearm from another person who is not licensed under this chapter, unless the firearm is transferred through a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer in accordance with subsection (e).

`(2) CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS- A person who is subject to the requirement of paragraph (1)--

`(A) shall not receive the firearm from the transferor until the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer through which the transfer is made under subsection (e) makes the notification described in subsection (e)(3)(A); and

`(B) notwithstanding subparagraph (A), shall not receive the firearm from the transferor if the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer through which the transfer is made under subsection (e) makes the notification described in subsection (e)(3)(B).

`(e) Responsibilities of Licensees- A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer who agrees to assist a person who is not licensed under this chapter in carrying out the responsibilities of that person under subsection (c) or (d) with respect to the transfer of a firearm shall--

`(1) enter such information about the firearm as the Attorney General may require by regulation into a separate bound record;

`(2) record the transfer on a form specified by the Attorney General;

`(3) comply with section 922(t) as if transferring the firearm from the inventory of the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to the designated transferee (although a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer complying with this subsection shall not be required to comply again with the requirements of section 922(t) in delivering the firearm to the nonlicensed transferor), and notify the nonlicensed transferor and the nonlicensed transferee--

`(A) of such compliance; and

`(B) if the transfer is subject to the requirements of section 922(t)(1), of any receipt by the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer of a notification from the national instant criminal background check system that the transfer would violate section 922 or would violate State law;

`(4) not later than 10 days after the date on which the transfer occurs, submit to the Attorney General a report of the transfer, which report--

`(A) shall be on a form specified by the Attorney General by regulation; and

`(B) shall not include the name of or other identifying information relating to any person involved in the transfer who is not licensed under this chapter;

`(5) if the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer assists a person other than a licensee in transferring, at 1 time or during any 5 consecutive business days, 2 or more pistols or revolvers, or any combination of pistols and revolvers totaling 2 or more, to the same nonlicensed person, in addition to the reports required under paragraph (4), prepare a report of the multiple transfers, which report shall be--

`(A) prepared on a form specified by the Attorney General; and

`(B) not later than the close of business on the date on which the transfer occurs, forwarded to--

`(i) the office specified on the form described in subparagraph (A); and

`(ii) the appropriate State law enforcement agency of the jurisdiction in which the transfer occurs; and

`(6) retain a record of the transfer as part of the permanent business records of the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer.

`(f) Records of Licensee Transfers- If any part of a firearm transaction takes place at a gun show, each licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, and licensed dealer who transfers 1 or more firearms to a person who is not licensed under this chapter shall, not later than 10 days after the date on which the transfer occurs, submit to the Attorney General a report of the transfer, which report--

`(1) shall be in a form specified by the Attorney General by regulation;

`(2) shall not include the name of or other identifying information relating to the transferee; and

`(3) shall not duplicate information provided in any report required under subsection (e)(4).

`(g) Firearm Transaction Defined- In this section, the term `firearm transaction'--

`(1) includes the offer for sale, sale, transfer, or exchange of a firearm; and

`(2) does not include the mere exhibition of a firearm.'.

Patriot
02-01-2008, 1:12 PM
Bill Text (Continued)

(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(8)(A) Whoever knowingly violates section 932(a) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

`(B) Whoever knowingly violates subsection (b) or (c) of section 932, shall be--

`(i) fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both; and

`(ii) in the case of a second or subsequent conviction, fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

`(C) Whoever willfully violates section 932(d), shall be--

`(i) fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both; and

`(ii) in the case of a second or subsequent conviction, fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

`(D) Whoever knowingly violates subsection (e) or (f) of section 932 shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

`(E) In addition to any other penalties imposed under this paragraph, the Attorney General may, with respect to any person who knowingly violates any provision of section 932--

`(i) if the person is registered pursuant to section 932(a), after notice and opportunity for a hearing, suspend for not more than 6 months or revoke the registration of that person under section 932(a); and

`(ii) impose a civil fine in an amount equal to not more than $10,000.'.

(3) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMENDMENTS- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(A) in the chapter analysis, by adding at the end the following:

`Sec. 932. Regulation of firearms transfers at gun shows.';

and

(B) in the first sentence of section 923(j), by striking `a gun show or event' and inserting `an event'.

(d) Inspection Authority- Section 923(g)(1) is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(E) Notwithstanding subparagraph (B), the Attorney General may enter during business hours the place of business of any gun show promoter and any place where a gun show is held for the purposes of examining the records required by sections 923 and 932 and the inventory of licensees conducting business at the gun show. Such entry and examination shall be conducted for the purposes of determining compliance with this chapter by gun show promoters and licensees conducting business at the gun show and shall not require a showing of reasonable cause or a warrant.'.

(e) Increased Penalties for Serious Recordkeeping Violations by Licensees- Section 924(a)(3) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`(3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), any licensed dealer, licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed collector who knowingly makes any false statement or representation with respect to the information required by this chapter to be kept in the records of a person licensed under this chapter, or violates section 922(m) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

`(B) If the violation described in subparagraph (A) is in relation to an offense--

`(i) under paragraph (1) or (3) of section 922(b), such person shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both; or

`(ii) under subsection (a)(6) or (d) of section 922, such person shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.'.

(f) Increased Penalties for Violations of Criminal Background Check Requirements-

(1) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(A) in paragraph (5), by striking `subsection (s) or (t) of section 922' and inserting `section 922(s)'; and

(B) by adding at the end the following:

`(9) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(t) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.'.

(2) ELIMINATION OF CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF OFFENSE- Section 922(t)(5) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `and, at the time' and all that follows through `State law'.

(g) Effective Date- This Act and the amendments made by this section shall take effect 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act.

SchooBaka
02-01-2008, 11:36 PM
Just look at the cosponsors. That last line reads like an answer to a Jeopardy question. A good reason to never vote democrat?


:D

To this bunch, the second amendment is one big loophole.:mad: