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View Full Version : Top five OLL lower units


mudd
01-29-2008, 3:23 PM
I'm new and would like your opinion on the better OLL lower units available before I start my first build. I can only afford One build so I want to get it right the first time. I'm planning on a 20" bull barrel or varmit type system. If I can save up the money I was thinking of a LaRue Tactical upper with Troy indus. folding sights and handguards,Magpul stock. I also need help deciding on a trigger. I know I want a 2stage, just not sure of my choices or if I there are any complete lower systems capible of 1/4-1/2 @ 100+yards. Having only built 10/22's and finding out that a KID trigger and barrel system are way better than the stock set-up.I pretty much want the same for my ar project.I would appreciate any advise to help me along.Thanks! MUDD.

G17GUY
01-29-2008, 3:35 PM
lewismachine and tool
sabre defence
stag
noveske
mega
Magpul


Are a few lowers of the top of my head.

http://www.lanworldinc.com/Lower.htm

Flux Capacitor
01-29-2008, 3:36 PM
Double Star
Stag
Mega

Hopi
01-29-2008, 3:40 PM
Welcome to the forum.......


If aesthetics are all you're after, you can't beat Mega or perhaps one of the billet receivers (sun devil, pof, etc). Otherwise, all brands (with very few exceptions) will fit and function just fine.


I'm still waiting for the Magpul lowers.

scfast
01-29-2008, 3:49 PM
lewismachine and tool
sabre defence
stag
noveske
mega
Magpul



http://www.lanworldinc.com/Lower.htm

I'll second that list

apbrian112
01-29-2008, 3:49 PM
as for lowers... pick one. seriously, they'll all work fine. you could go expensive and get a billet one, but any forged lower will work fine. ie: stag, double star, mega, lmt, sabre, etc. etc.
for an accuracy build look into a WOA (white oak armament) barreled upper from www.adcofirearms.com or if you're in the LA area, give randall (ar15barrels) a pm and he'll be able to build you a tackdriver.
triggers: RRA 2 stage, timney, giselle, mccormick, jp (single stage), etc.
do some searching on here or arfcom and you'll be able to pick out something you like. good luck! and happy building!
-brian-

mudd
01-29-2008, 3:58 PM
Thanks for the advise. Looks like I have some reading to do. Atleast now I know where to look. MUDD.

Flux Capacitor
01-29-2008, 4:06 PM
how come theres so many "mudd", "mud"'s on this forum?

Jax
01-29-2008, 4:14 PM
I'm new and would like your opinion on the better OLL lower units available before I start my first build. I can only afford One build so I want to get it right the first time. I'm planning on a 20" bull barrel or varmit type system. If I can save up the money I was thinking of a LaRue Tactical upper with Troy indus. folding sights and handguards,Magpul stock. I also need help deciding on a trigger. I know I want a 2stage, just not sure of my choices or if I there are any complete lower systems capible of 1/4-1/2 @ 100+yards. Having only built 10/22's and finding out that a KID trigger and barrel system are way better than the stock set-up.I pretty much want the same for my ar project.I would appreciate any advise to help me along.Thanks! MUDD.


My order of the best...may not be yours...
lewismachine and tool<----Great stuff
sabre defence <--Good stuff, but over priced
Sundevil <-----Good stuff
stag <---------Best for the buck
Magpul<---QA Department..is called, "We'll replace it if its broken"
noveske<---- look good never seen or used.

hawk81
01-29-2008, 4:41 PM
CMMG is pretty good.

bobfried
01-29-2008, 4:41 PM
Ok some of the responses have been CRAZY!

First off, you CAN NOT buy a Magpul lower.

As for the rest, there are not that much difference in them, all except a few are similar. The ones that do stand out as much more superior due to design, quality of the product and name brand are:

- LMT (the only readily available AR manufacturer that adheres to strict TDC and actually has a military contract)

- POF (a billet lower with features galore)

Everything else (short of the rare colt sportster lower) are either not made to any military standards nor are overbuilt like a POF. The Noveske for instance, whilst might be a good name is nothing more than a CMT/Stag built up to their spec. The Magpul, if it ever sees the light of day will cost in excess of $300-500 (what their rep is currently saying) and isn't something meant for the masses.

So of all the option in the OLL market there really is only one if you want something that is as close to "mil-spec" as possible:

LMT

FYI: I build my rifles on Stag lowers almost exclusively and if you've seen my rifles they are not exactly cheap. But in the end, lowers do almost nothing on the AR so a basic Stag will do just fine. An LMT or POF won't be any better when it comes down to function. The Magpul when it get release is just another brand of bottled water. The best and most expensive bottled water is still just that, WATER.

Surfdog
01-29-2008, 4:45 PM
I would agree that there's not a huge difference in lower receivers if you leave out the cosmetics factor. I do love the looks of the POF and the ambidextrous bolt release.

Jeffy
01-29-2008, 5:00 PM
Aren't Noveske's made by CMT/STAG?

I think CMMG's are decent although they are a bit rougher then Stags.

Magpul isn't even out. I through they were only going to be making some 500 units for their top selling resellers. Might as well be KAC's.

Sydwaiz
01-29-2008, 5:01 PM
Anything but Hesse. All the rest do the same thing. Hesse may or may not. Just pick your favorite company logo.

Sdoolittle
01-29-2008, 5:04 PM
What do you guys think about essential arms?

Sydwaiz
01-29-2008, 5:04 PM
I think CMMG's are decent although they are a bit rougher then Stags.


Wow, owning both, I would say the opposite. There was a reason I chose the Stag to spray paint.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
01-29-2008, 5:07 PM
Lower Units are on Boats motors. Lower Receivers are on guns.
It don't really matter what quality lower receiver you get. The Upper does most of the work.

blackberg
01-29-2008, 5:08 PM
Then you get into who actually built what...
LMT Makes the Lauer Custom Weaponry Lowers
Stag makes for various others, I know my Global Tactical are Stags and Ive seen others as well

Hopi
01-29-2008, 5:26 PM
Xeno did this for everyone already........

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=50947&highlight=lower+receiver+thread

aplinker
01-29-2008, 5:33 PM
I don't think he's just looking at lowers.

Sounds like he's asking about everything.

I'll add that at 100yds I have yet to build an AR that doesn't shoot sub-MOA, even with garbage parts.

As has been said, any lower is fine (exception of Hesse/Vulcan). Pick your favorite logo or match it to your upper maker. True stripped LMT lowers aren't usually available, but Lauer lowers are made by LMT. POF and some others and "features" that may or may not interest you (integrated trigger guards, ambi bolt release...)

If you're looking at a varmint style rig you'll want a heavier profile stainless barrel. White Oak Armament is a good choice. Noveske is expensive, but excellent. For uppers, if money is no object, go for the VLTOR MUR. After that, LMT then CMT. Bolt carrier group -- go LMT enhanced, if you can.

Handguards/rails are a really personal choice. There are lots of options. Daniel Defense, Larue, Knight's Armament, PRI, etc. etc... There are comfort/feel/adjustment/weight/price advantages to each.

You might be best off having Randall build you something, if you're in the LA area (AR15barrels on here).

Take your time and look things over -- get lots of ideas from pictures. True staring at the picture from Larue that cycles through 1000's of configurations.

jamesob
01-29-2008, 5:38 PM
pof, rock river and if you wanna get fancy jp

Jax
01-29-2008, 6:08 PM
The idea that one company makes all the lowers and they just drop different companies logo's on the side is false.

Yes there are only 3 or 4 companys making lowers for everyone. But each company has its own set of rules for the manufacture and each company is billed by how far their rules go...there is also the QA department factor...if I get 100 lowrs in and inspect 100 lowers for defects..the compnay that made the lowers for me will be giving me X number of lowers until my order is filled to my satisfaction. Now if I am only inspecting 10%....how many defects am I missing and sending to the public...

I am not trying to flame Magpul here, but their QA department has got to get on the ball. I dont care if you are going to give me a replacement...with the cash you will pay for one of their items IT SHOULDNT NEED TO GO BACK!

back to the lowers...
So of the lowers I have seen and priced. Stag and SunDevil are the best for the buck. Good mix for quality, cost and customer service.

Sharnhorst
01-29-2008, 6:13 PM
WoW! i can remember the days on ar15.com if you dident have a colt or a bushie you were scum. times have changed.

tankerman
01-29-2008, 6:24 PM
WoW! i can remember the days on ar15.com if you dident have a colt or a bushie you were scum. times have changed.
There you go, all the best lowers are the ones you can't buy in the PRK.

Fjold
01-29-2008, 6:30 PM
I think that the milled lowers (Sun Devil, etc) just look sharper because there are no forging seams left over or flatspots from cutting them off.

Rem1492
01-29-2008, 6:32 PM
Didnt see LAUER lowers listed, they and my DPMS are the best finished I have yet.

jamesob
01-29-2008, 6:43 PM
dpms is on the list and can't get

Sydwaiz
01-29-2008, 7:21 PM
WoW! i can remember the days on ar15.com if you dident have a colt or a bushie you were scum. times have changed.

Hell, I remember when Bushie was sub par... They sure have come a long way since.

J_Rock
01-29-2008, 7:28 PM
Magpul will be king, if and when its released

Jax
01-29-2008, 7:38 PM
Magpul will be king, if and when its released

I'm not a fan of Magpul, for my own experiences, but they are innovative. If the AR15 platform was left up to colt the weapon would have been dead long ago.

Desert_AIP
01-29-2008, 9:56 PM
Aren't Noveske's made by CMT/STAG?


The older ones were.

I have the new ones, they're made by LAR (if I recall correctly).

Fit and finish on the new Noveskes are top notch.

Toolbox X
01-29-2008, 11:30 PM
No one has mentioned that you cannot buy stripped LMT lowers.

LMT lowers only come as a complete lower half. I know because I bought 5 of them.

As far as "mil-spec" is concerned, there isn't any difference between Stag and LMT. The only lower you absolutely must stay away from is Vulcan because they really are out of spec. Everything else will be fine.

The things you need to decide when you build a lower are almost all cosmetic.

- Do you care about the logo? Personally I HATE pictures of animals on my lower. My favorite lower is the Fulton Armory because the only thing engraved on the side is "U.S. Rifle".
- Mega lowers are sometimes their own strange color that only matches the
mega upper.
- Sabre lowers are finished really nice and they do not have any stupid animal pictures, but they only engrave the lowers that are sold as complete rifles. The markings on stripped Sabre lowers are all done with an electric pencil type machine, ie. lots of little dots to make the words. That really turns me off.
- Sun Devil and POF lowers are made from billet aluminum, so they are theoreticaly stronger, but lowers require very little strength so the only thing that comes to play is that they look different than all the cast lowers. If you like the look, cool. If not, oh well. Sun Devil lowers should only cost around $150. The POF lowers are outrageously expensive, mostly because a few of them have the trigger guard machined as part of the lower. That's cool, but not for an extra $100 or $200, IMHO.
- Magpul lowers do not exist yet. I will get one when they do, mostly because I think the logo is cool, and because it's not another stupid animal picture.
- JP lowers are crazy expensive, but they look different than everything else out there. I recommend getting a matching JP upper to go with the lower if you go that route.

I hope that helps.

-Grant

Bowser
01-30-2008, 12:55 AM
I'm thinking about ordering Stag full upper and lower and have a BB installed for my first AR15. Good to know many people like Stag.

Toolbox X
01-30-2008, 9:48 AM
Be aware, Stag uppers mysteriously have very serious problems with steel cased ammo. They are the only chrome lined chamber and barrel AR upper I know of that has this problem. It perplexes the hell out of me and many others, but the problem is very real.

I don't know if you plan to shoot steel cased ammo or not, but having that as an option is a very good thing, especially with todays ammo prices.

I recommend you go with an upper other than Stag. RRA, CMMG, LMT, or anyone really. Just make sure that whatever you order, get it with a chrome lined barrel.

-Grant

Jicko
01-30-2008, 10:01 AM
If you can afford it.... go "noveske" all the way!

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 10:16 AM
functionally, all lowers are the same.

SemiAutoSam
01-30-2008, 10:23 AM
You forgot COLT. I know they are expensive but hey its a COLT.
I have 2.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/colt3nj.jpg

lewismachine and tool
sabre defence
stag
noveske
mega
Magpul


Are a few lowers of the top of my head.

http://www.lanworldinc.com/Lower.htm

Pryde
01-30-2008, 10:27 AM
You forgot COLT. I know they are expensive but hey its a COLT.
I have 2.

Sorry I don't have the link to the pic from my photobucket album at the moment but I have posted it in the past.

I agree that Colt parts are almost always superior, and I only run Colt uppers, but I must disagree with your statement Sam.

The reason being that commercial Colt lowers have large non-milspec FCG pins and a sear block installed. Although the intended purpose is to prevent use of a full auto trigger, the side effect is that it makes it so you cannot use most 2-stage and match trigger assemblies.

SemiAutoSam
01-30-2008, 10:36 AM
Do I have to get my camera out ?

There is no sear block and I happen to have pin Bushings so I can use any trigger I want. And then there is my Armalite AR15 receiver. :D
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/RIFLES/ArmaliteAR51.jpg


I agree that Colt parts are almost always superior, and I only run Colt uppers, but I must disagree with your statement Sam.

The reason being that commercial Colt lowers have large non-milspec FCG pins and a sear block installed. Although the intended purpose is to prevent use of a full auto trigger, the side effect is that it makes it so you cannot use most 2-stage and match trigger assemblies.

aplinker
01-30-2008, 10:45 AM
I would push you toward CMMG over a Stag, if you need to save money. You'll get better quality and you can add very important things like the LMT improved bolt.

Pryde
01-30-2008, 10:47 AM
Do I have to get my camera out ?

There is no sear block and I happen to have pin Bushings so I can use any trigger I want. And then there is my Armalite AR15 receiver. :D



I have no idea about the old ones, but I know for sure the newer model Colts have sear blocks.

Nice lower :cheers2:

soopafly
01-30-2008, 10:49 AM
Read through this thread on AR lower comparison and who really cuts <insert brand name here>'s reciever.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=50947&highlight=lower+comparison

Bowser
01-30-2008, 11:29 AM
Be aware, Stag uppers mysteriously have very serious problems with steel cased ammo. They are the only chrome lined chamber and barrel AR upper I know of that has this problem. It perplexes the hell out of me and many others, but the problem is very real.

I don't know if you plan to shoot steel cased ammo or not, but having that as an option is a very good thing, especially with todays ammo prices.

I recommend you go with an upper other than Stag. RRA, CMMG, LMT, or anyone really. Just make sure that whatever you order, get it with a chrome lined barrel.

-Grant


I would push you toward CMMG over a Stag, if you need to save money. You'll get better quality and you can add very important things like the LMT improved bolt.

Thanks for the input. I'll definitely keep it in mind when getting ready to order parts.

Jax
01-30-2008, 4:37 PM
Someone posted the Stag uppers have strange problems, I think I remember hearing that it was due to the chamber on .223 SAAMI uppers are not 5.56 compatable...and its never a good thing to use a 5.56 in a .223 anyway.

But all 5.56 stag uppers are mil-spec and will not cause problems.

technique
01-30-2008, 4:46 PM
mho...CMMG has a great looking lower. Im replacing my High standard upper With a CMMG upper. i have looked at a lot of the manufacturers mentioned, and CMMG has some of the cleanest looking M4 feed ramps i have seen so far in their uppers.

aplinker
01-30-2008, 5:35 PM
From what I've seen, CMMG comes out close to LMT. For the money (since it's priced on par with Stag, sometimes less), I'd say they're a bargain. Choosing the right options you can get a good quality product.

Short of a full custom (ala Randall or Noveske), they're your best bet.

mho...CMMG has a great looking lower. Im replacing my High standard upper With a CMMG upper. i have looked at a lot of the manufacturers mentioned, and CMMG has some of the cleanest looking M4 feed ramps i have seen so far in their uppers.

6172crew
01-30-2008, 6:25 PM
I have no idea about the old ones, but I know for sure the newer model Colts have sear blocks.

Nice lower :cheers2:
My 6920 has the block but came with teh FA bolt carrier.

6172crew
01-30-2008, 6:26 PM
Oh, Im in the market for a DIAS and found that Mega will accept without mods.:cool: