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Jicko
01-29-2008, 12:26 PM
Continuing from the "North vs South CA" Match thread....

So.... what's a good and nice brake for my 700PSS?

Do I even need one? :D

Actually, I have tuned my trigger(was stock), it feels MUCH better now.

Do you guys want to try out PALA range? Maybe we can go to their match. http://www.ncsahighpower.com/08dates.asp

wildcard
01-29-2008, 12:27 PM
Here's what i use: http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.2.php

Prc329
01-29-2008, 12:41 PM
I like my brake because it allows me to stay on target a lot easier. I really like the FTE brakes. Works well and easy to remove for cleaning.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 1:04 PM
FTE is nice, the DPMS Nayt has is pretty cool for a good price...I think they all will work pretty well. Do you want to be able to remove it and replace it?

Jicko
01-29-2008, 1:15 PM
I dunno, I dun even know if I want a brake. The 308's recoil isn't too bad to me. (I think i need to try out PRC's gun to experience...)

I've just got in a Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x M3 LR/T for my SPR, the older Mark 4 3-9x PR will be on the 700PSS, so I finally have a Mil-dot scope on the 700PSS. (I know I should switch them around, but I just dun have rings to mount that 3.5-10x onto the 700PSS, and that extra 1x is not going to do much).

I think I will run with this setup for a little while, then see if I want to switch things around. The 700PSS should eventually have a NF or USO, a badger 20MOA base, and some badger rings. But just need to take one baby step at a time.

Blacky
01-29-2008, 2:36 PM
I have the Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm LR/T M1 Front Focal (Mil-Dot) on my 700PSS - so far I have no complaints but I haven't had much time to do anything much more than zero it in. In fact it feels like Ive spent more time cleaning it than shooting it.

So far the trigger feels fine as is. Ive got a bad shoulder, a muzzle brake sounds like a good idea.

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 11:57 PM
Everytime I shoot someone else's braked gun, I want one.
Then when I shoot next to them, I hate it and I don't want to be "that guy" with the brake.
It's a conundrum.
A brake makes it easier to watch your hits and get back on target quicker, but it makes you unpopular with other people at the range.

You just have to decide what's more important...
My bolt rifle STILL does not have a brake on it and I have dozens of them in my shop that I could install within hours.

Mute
01-30-2008, 6:25 AM
I have a Badger on my rifle. Works well. I've also tried the VAIS brake. Also very effective. If you want quick follow-up shots and the ability to see your shots land, the brake helps a great deal. Only thing better is a suppressor.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 6:33 AM
Everytime I shoot someone else's braked gun, I want one.
Then when I shoot next to them, I hate it and I don't want to be "that guy" with the brake.
It's a conundrum.
A brake makes it easier to watch your hits and get back on target quicker, but it makes you unpopular with other people at the range.

You just have to decide what's more important...
My bolt rifle STILL does not have a brake on it and I have dozens of them in my shop that I could install within hours.

With about half of everyone at matches using a brake, you're almost certain to be next to one half of the time. Its really not too bad (unless its a hot loaded '06 with a VAIS brake:p). The only time I felt that my performance was really being hindered was next to a guy with an 18in AR10 and we were lined up at an angle so his muzzle was pretty close to me. Other than that, I really don't care. But it does make for good excuses...

Best guy to shoot next to is Kurt at the vegas matches who always runs a can. Its great.

Timberwolf
01-30-2008, 7:53 AM
I have a brake on both of my prec rifles. They serve their purpose well in that I can stay in my scope through recoil which is important to me during matches. As far as being unpopular with other shooters - when I go to a match I'm not there for a popularity contest. Besides brakes are becoming the majority.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 8:03 AM
Y'all just signed your death warrants.
I'm building an 18" barreled 243 AR-10 with a VIAS brake.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 8:21 AM
Y'all just signed your death warrants.
I'm building an 18" barreled 243 AR-10 with a VIAS brake.

Do that only if you dont care about your scope. The guys I've shot with that ran those brakes usually got small rocks and debris in their objective scope cap. I don't think thats too good for the glass...but again, I'm not an expert on rocks and glass.

Prc329
01-30-2008, 8:22 AM
I have a brake on both of my prec rifles. They serve their purpose well in that I can stay in my scope through recoil which is important to me during matches. As far as being unpopular with other shooters - when I go to a match I'm not there for a popularity contest. Besides brakes are becoming the majority.

I would say half the shooters at the APS match were shooting brakes.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 8:29 AM
Do that only if you dont care about your scope. The guys I've shot with that ran those brakes usually got small rocks and debris in their objective scope cap. I don't think thats too good for the glass...but again, I'm not an expert on rocks and glass.

all you need is the honeycomb polarizer and your set.

wildcard
01-30-2008, 8:34 AM
Do that only if you dont care about your scope. The guys I've shot with that ran those brakes usually got small rocks and debris in their objective scope cap. I don't think thats too good for the glass...but again, I'm not an expert on rocks and glass.

I don't even see how that's physically possible. Seems a lot more likely that the debris and rocks are the result of everyone else shooting around them with brakes.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 8:47 AM
Seems a lot more likely that the debris and rocks are the result of everyone else shooting around them with brakes.

That's what I'm thinking.
I was getting pelted with rocks when Joe fired next to me in the sand trap.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 8:50 AM
we'll lay ourselves out between the northerners. it'll be good strategy. j/k

rksimple
01-30-2008, 9:16 AM
I don't even see how that's physically possible. Seems a lot more likely that the debris and rocks are the result of everyone else shooting around them with brakes.

Do it and see. Its possible and I've watched it happen. It was with this rifle here:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee266/Tiger_Valley/IMG_0508.jpg

Don't know if the glass is dinged on his USO, but it was always full of small rocks and grass. I think he was the only one shooting with a Vais that week and I was shooting next to him the entire time. It added a little action to everything with "incoming debris."

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 9:52 AM
Do it and see. Its possible and I've watched it happen. It was with this rifle here:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee266/Tiger_Valley/IMG_0508.jpg

Don't know if the glass is dinged on his USO, but it was always full of small rocks and grass. I think he was the only one shooting with a Vais that week and I was shooting next to him the entire time. It added a little action to everything with "incoming debris."

he's trapping debris inside his polarizer. he probably doesn't take good care of his gear. after every major shoot, i clean and wipe down my rifle.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 10:30 AM
he's trapping debris inside his polarizer. he probably doesn't take good care of his gear. after every major shoot, i clean and wipe down my rifle.

Wrong. There is no polarizer nor ARD. He took great care of his stuff. Regardless, it doesn't negate the fact that the brake was kicking stuff back at him.

Prc329
01-30-2008, 10:43 AM
That's crazy, my FTE or DPMS doesn't kick stuff at me. They also don't have holes in the bottom like the vais brake. I remember shooting next to Timberwolf in tehachapi and we were throwing rocks at each other.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 10:47 AM
They also don't have holes in the bottom like the vais brake.

I think thats the key.

ETA: I'm not knocking the VAIS, but when you're shooting in the dirt and sand, you notice a difference. Guys that shoot on concrete or a bench all the time probably won't notice the difference between a brake with holes on the bottom vs only holes on the side.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 10:47 AM
I think thats the key.

Yep.
Holes in the bottom and you (and your neighbor) get hit with rocks from your gun.
No holes in the bottom and only your neighbor gets hit with rocks from your gun.

Jicko
01-30-2008, 11:05 AM
That's crazy, my FTE or DPMS doesn't kick stuff at me. They also don't have holes in the bottom like the vais brake.

The problem with Vias brake is that they are 360 ported, not just venting to the sides.

Randall, do you install "Badger's Thruster Tactical Compensator"? How much? And will you make it match my barrel's color??

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 11:37 AM
this one works the best

JP Howitzer/Sherman Tank Muzzle Brake

get something different

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7684&title=R3E2C+MUZZLE+BRAKE

Jicko
01-30-2008, 11:43 AM
This one?

http://www.jprifles.com/cart_pix/tm/780.jpg

Looks too ugly.... :(

PS. I have OPS INC on my SPR.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 11:45 AM
it's not a fashion statement, but it's the best working muzzlebrake i've shot out of.

Jicko
01-30-2008, 11:47 AM
Some of the best brake (I read somewhere):
- Vias
- Tubb
- Badger (FTE? or Thruster? which one?)
- Holland

Is that true? Or what is THE BEST? For Rem700P, .308....

I kinda want "low profile", and do I need "removable"???????

Now, the Vias have the 360 blast problem.

Prc329
01-30-2008, 11:48 AM
I had an OPS on an AR and it was a very effective brake. The J brake is crazy. It definitely is named correctly. It eliminated recoil. If you get a chance, shoot wildcards rifle.

Its expensive but go with the Badger FTE. The PRI brake is also a nice brake. I originally was going to go with that but Randall and I decided the DPMS was the better choice due to cost and the fact I will be rebareling and going with an FTE.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 11:49 AM
it's not a fashion statement, but it's the best working muzzlebrake i've shot out of.

Its pretty nice. Jason's rifle barely moves with that thing. The FTE works equally well, IMO. Randy likes the Armalite tank brake on the big stuff.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 11:52 AM
i'm going to make my own brake. the r3e2c brakes looks pretty cool. different from the others.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 11:53 AM
Some of the best brake (I read somewhere):
- Vias
- Tubb
- Badget (FTE? or Thruster? which one?)
- Holland

Is that true? Or what is THE BEST? For Rem700P, .308....

I kinda want "low profile", and do I need "removable"???????

If you want a brake you can take off and on (or that isn't timed), the FTE and the VAIS are the winners. If you don't plan on taking it off much, I like the thruster. Its "low profile" and very clean looking. The JP is awesome too if you don't mind the way it looks.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 11:53 AM
Randall, do you install "Badger's Thruster Tactical Compensator"? How much? And will you make it match my barrel's color??

Sure.
I would have to check on price/availability though.
I don't do any painting.
It would have to go out for that.

wildcard
01-30-2008, 11:55 AM
Randy likes the Armalite tank brake on the big stuff.

That's what i'm putting on my .338! It's a friggin $180 brake though. What another $200 though, right? I just bought 100 brass and 500 count 300 gr SMK for it.. that was NOT cheap.

Jicko
01-30-2008, 11:55 AM
I love the 700PSS look..... that's the reason I am a little reluctant in adding a brake....

My choices are very limited....

So... no JP, no FTE... :(

Is the Badger Thruster any good? What is the best "low profile" one?

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 11:56 AM
If you want a brake you can take off and on (or that isn't timed), the FTE and the VAIS are the winners. If you don't plan on taking it off much, I like the thruster. Its "low profile" and very clean looking. The JP is awesome too if you don't mind the way it looks.

Removing a timed brake is no problem.
You just un-thread it and thread it back on when you want to use it.
I recommend a thread protector for when you are not running the brake.

Prc329
01-30-2008, 11:57 AM
If you want a brake you can take off and on (or that isn't timed), the FTE and the VAIS are the winners. If you don't plan on taking it off much, I like the thruster. Its "low profile" and very clean looking. The JP is awesome too if you don't mind the way it looks.

Timberwolf's brake was done so clean it looked like the barrel was ported. Randall offered to profile the DPMS but I didn't see the need to since it is a "temporary" brake.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 11:57 AM
I have OPS INC brakes.
Very low profile.
Closed bottom.
Slight upward bias to eliminate muzzle rise.

Jicko
01-30-2008, 11:59 AM
If you want a brake you can take off and on (or that isn't timed), the FTE and the VAIS are the winners. If you don't plan on taking it off much, I like the thruster. Its "low profile" and very clean looking. The JP is awesome too if you don't mind the way it looks.

So, I guess..... "Badger Thruster"..... is it any good? How does that compare to others? And... anyone have one?

PRC: do you have a link to the DPMS? And what does the FTE looks like if you take it off?

Randall: can you do a quick pricing for me?

wildcard
01-30-2008, 11:59 AM
This one?

http://www.jprifles.com/cart_pix/tm/780.jpg

Looks too ugly.... :(


It's a sexy brake. Try mine. Don't think Randall is too hot for it either even though he installed it for me :)

I got a VAIS going on my 300 WM. Who wants to shoot next to me? I'll let you know if rocks come back at me.

No doubt debris will come back at me.. I just don't understand how it gets the trajectory to get from the ground, all the way around my rifle, and into my scope. Certain dirt being kicked up will drift in there from the wind or whatever.. but rocks?

rksimple
01-30-2008, 11:59 AM
Removing a timed brake is no problem.
You just un-thread it and thread it back on when you want to use it.
I recommend a thread protector for when you are not running the brake.

As buildup occurs as well as slight deformations in the mating surfaces, it doesn't stay timed. This is info from many gunsmiths, not just me saying it. If one were so inclined, and had a dremel or the likes, this could easily be remedied.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 11:59 AM
how about this brake

http://www.italiancarparts.com/brakes/brake.gif

Prc329
01-30-2008, 12:01 PM
Jicko, go with either the DPMS or the Thurster brake and have them profiled to match your barrel. Then grab a can of Krylon camo black paint. Remove trigger and bolt and mask off your chamber, etc and have at it. Will look the same, be very low profile and you will be happy.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 12:02 PM
or this

http://www.jokesunlimited.com/funny_halloween_costumes/large/banana.jpg

wildcard
01-30-2008, 12:03 PM
Oh yeah.. if any of y'all are looking for Timney triggers. Midway has them for $80 right now :)

wildcard
01-30-2008, 12:04 PM
or this

http://www.jokesunlimited.com/funny_halloween_costumes/large/banana.jpg

Whatever it is, it got flagged as "category 'Erotic / Sex' not allowed" on my government computer :)

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 12:07 PM
it's just a picture of a guy in a banana suit.

Timberwolf
01-30-2008, 12:09 PM
I have the BAdger Thruster on both my rifles and I had R & D turn everything so that it looks like my barrel is ported. They are the best IMHO if you want clean lines. They reduce muzzle flip and recoil extremely well even on my M40A1 which is relatively light with its short 20" barrel.

They are loud and you get a thrust to the side but the ends far more justify the means.

It will take you longer to clean your rifle as you also have to clean the ports as well.

Prc329
01-30-2008, 12:10 PM
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=942876&t=11082005

Jicko it is very similar to that one but is not tappered in the back like that. It looks like a copy of the badger thruster brake.

Jicko
01-30-2008, 12:11 PM
how about this brake

http://www.italiancarparts.com/brakes/brake.gif

http://redlineracer.org/estore/images/products/Big-Reds.jpg

This is what i have... not on my rifles tho... :D

Prc329
01-30-2008, 12:13 PM
It will take you longer to clean your rifle as you also have to clean the ports as well.

That is what I like about the FTE. Very easy to take off for cleaning. No need to worry about the timming getting screwed up. Just unscrew the clamp bolt and screw it off. I have removed the brake from my rifle and it is a pain.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 12:14 PM
remember it's not what you have, but how you use it. that was what i was getting at. don't be too concerned of the slight technical differences. any good brake will work, like any good match barrel with work, and any good stock that will work, and any good bullet will work.

some people have lambos, but they never punch it or track it. waste isn't it?

Jicko
01-30-2008, 12:16 PM
BTW, "timed" just means that it is indexed, right? ie. u want the ports to be symmetrical to the left and to the right??

Are there "events" or "matches" that i NEED to take off the brake? If not, I think, I probably will just leave it on..... taking the time to "clean" the ports doesn't bother me.

So, the Badger Thruster IS effective for .308 (and it is worth it right?).... if I hear it right from Twolf.

It is also, pretty cheap.... $55 (from Triad)

Timberwolf
01-30-2008, 12:20 PM
The only restrictions I've encountered with a brake is F-class - beyond that most every snipers match I've been to has allowed them.

And yes they're great on .308s - mine has the recoil of maybe a hot 223.

Jicko
01-30-2008, 12:23 PM
I have the BAdger Thruster on both my rifles and I had R & D turn everything so that it looks like my barrel is ported. They are the best IMHO if you want clean lines.

So, who should I go to for the brake installation? I *really* like the look of the rifle itself, so, if I can get it so that it only looks like my barrel is ported then it will be "perfect"!!

Do they have to "recrown" the barrel what they thread it?

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 12:27 PM
call Randall. he said he'll take care of you. you overthink everything, just way too much. buy the badger brake, and give Randall a call, and have the action and barrel refinished by someone, mayby nayt. it's that simple.

fyi,

your supposed to have your barrel recrowned every 500 rounds. best bet is invest in a recrowning tool, and do it yourself.

Timberwolf
01-30-2008, 12:27 PM
So, who should I go to for the brake installation? I *really* like the look of the rifle itself, so, if I can get it so that it only looks like my barrel is ported then it will be "perfect"!!

Do they have to "recrown" the barrel what they thread it?

Don't know the particulars of how its installed so I can't answer your question as to the barrel re-crown. Randy (R & D) did both of mine (he's been Savannah's dr since she was just a wee 700P). Give him a jingle.

Prc329
01-30-2008, 12:32 PM
BTW, "timed" just means that it is indexed, right? ie. u want the ports to be symmetrical to the left and to the right??

Are there "events" or "matches" that i NEED to take off the brake? If not, I think, I probably will just leave it on..... taking the time to "clean" the ports doesn't bother me.

So, the Badger Thruster IS effective for .308 (and it is worth it right?).... if I hear it right from Twolf.

It is also, pretty cheap.... $55 (from Triad)

Go for it. It is worth it.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 12:36 PM
remember it's not what you have, but how you use it. that was what i was getting at. don't be too concerned of the slight technical differences. any good brake will work, like any good match barrel with work, and any good stock that will work, and any good bullet will work.

some people have lambos, but they never punch it or track it. waste isn't it?

Right on. The practical difference in the effectiveness of these brakes is minimal. If the clean look is what you want, the thruster is great.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 12:37 PM
re: 11° Target Crown


should be in everyone's tool box.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1032&title=MUZZLE%20FACING/CROWNING%20CUTTER%20DRILL

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=628&title=79\%20MUZZLE%20CROWNING%20CUTTER

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=23554&title=POWER%20CUSTOM%20BRASS%20MUZZLE%20CROWNING%2 0LAP

cost of 1 crowning job done by a gunsmith.

or if you want to go all out.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7718&title=PRECISION%20REAMERS%20MUZZLE%20CROWN%20REFAC ING%20TOOL

Prc329
01-30-2008, 12:39 PM
BTW I believe Randall has the DPMS in stock and it very close in price to the badger. Take the wife and kid and wife to Disneyland and take the rifle over to Randall for a thread and install. You can buy the brake and have him do the work for you all in one shot.

Prc329
01-30-2008, 12:41 PM
re: 11° Target Crown


should be in everyone's tool box.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1032&title=MUZZLE%20FACING/CROWNING%20CUTTER%20DRILL

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=628&title=79\%20MUZZLE%20CROWNING%20CUTTER

cost of 1 crowning job done by a gunsmith.

Having a brake pretty much decreases the need to recrown. From my understanding the need to recrown is usually from the crown getting damaged. The brake protects your crown. So wouldn't the need be decreased?

Timberwolf
01-30-2008, 12:42 PM
re: 11° Target Crown


should be in everyone's tool box.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1032&title=MUZZLE%20FACING/CROWNING%20CUTTER%20DRILL

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=628&title=79\%20MUZZLE%20CROWNING%20CUTTER

cost of 1 crowning job done by a gunsmith.

Randy would kick my butt if I tried that - ask me what he said the last time I opened a stuck bolt with a 2X4 - wasn't pretty

rksimple
01-30-2008, 12:43 PM
So wouldn't the need be decreased?

Yes. I beat the heck out of my m4gery carrying it around on the ranch. If it didn't have a brake, or some other protection for the crown, it would need recrowning all the time.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 12:44 PM
ask me what he said the last time I opened a stuck bolt with a 2X4 - wasn't pretty

So you're the one! He tells that story quite a bit.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 12:46 PM
i would think by common sense, that you should recrown right before installing a new brake.

randy actually said, most things done by a gunsmith can be done using common tools or kits. i can go on, but i'm not due to security issues.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 12:48 PM
i had a stuck bolt once. Bob, kindav of budged it out with a mallet. learned my lesson of not using brass fired from an ar15 in a bolt action.

wildcard
01-30-2008, 12:49 PM
i would think by common sense, that you should recrown right before installing a new brake.

randy actually said, most things done by a gunsmith can be done using common tools or kits. i can go on, but i'm not due to security issues.

Common sense is not so common depending on who you talk to :)

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 12:51 PM
Common sense is not so common depending on who you talk to :)

amen to that.

Timberwolf
01-30-2008, 12:51 PM
So you're the one! He tells that story quite a bit.

Yep, guilty hot load during load testing + 2X4 + hammer = knob going accross the bay.

Shhhh - I still use a 2X4 and hammer to open stuck bolts - I just don't whack it so hard

Prc329
01-30-2008, 12:51 PM
Mine was recrowned right before installing the brake. The act of threading the barrel damages the crown. My old savage actually became more accurate after it was recrowned with a flat, recessed crown.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 12:53 PM
Yep, guilty hot load during load testing + 2X4 + hammer = knob going accross the bay.

Shhhh - I still use a 2X4 and hammer to open stuck bolts - I just don't whack it so hard

+1 worked on my bolt gun! :)

Prc329
01-30-2008, 12:54 PM
Here is a rather dumb question maybe Randall can answer.

Replacing the recoil lug on a 700 with a larger one/better one will require the barrel to be reset and headspaced?

rksimple
01-30-2008, 12:57 PM
Here is a rather dumb question maybe Randall can answer.

Replacing the recoil lug on a 700 with a larger one/better one will require the barrel to be reset and headspaced?

Yep.

Timberwolf
01-30-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm not a gunsmith, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express - that said . . . yes

wildcard
01-30-2008, 1:02 PM
Here is a rather dumb question maybe Randall can answer.

Replacing the recoil lug on a 700 with a larger one/better one will require the barrel to be reset and headspaced?

You may also have to open up the lug area depending on your stock. Nothing a mill or a power drill with some bedding compound can't fix.

Prc329
01-30-2008, 1:02 PM
That's what I figured, I know on a Savage the headspace is set by threading the barrel in and tightening the barrel nut. The remmy will time back to the same spot if the barrel is removed.

Prc329
01-30-2008, 1:05 PM
You may also have to open up the lug area depending on your stock. Nothing a mill or a power drill with some bedding compound can't fix.

my Ai will need to be opened up.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 1:06 PM
my Ai will need to be opened up.

small issue.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 1:12 PM
Don't think Randall is too hot for it either even though he installed it for me

It's the best performing brake you can buy.
I personally think it's ugly, but I may indeed run one on my barrel because performance is the only REASON for a brake...

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 1:13 PM
It's the best performing brake you can buy.
I personally think it's ugly, but I may indeed run one on my barrel because performance is the only REASON for a brake...

you mean it's not a fashion statement? :p.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 1:14 PM
As buildup occurs as well as slight deformations in the mating surfaces, it doesn't stay timed. This is info from many gunsmiths, not just me saying it. If one were so inclined, and had a dremel or the likes, this could easily be remedied.

I mate them really hard on the first installation.
After that, they are pretty solid.

Of course you have to clean the surfaces when re-installing, but removing and installing is not something you would do weekly anyways.

In the end, it's a non-issue.
Any brake can be removed and re-installed multiple times without problems.
You don't "re-index" a brake each time you install it if it was done right the first time.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 1:15 PM
you mean it's not a fashion statement? :p.

Exactly.

Do I look like someone trying to make a fashion statement?

http://www.baudarstudio.com/APS/2008apswinner1.jpg

wildcard
01-30-2008, 1:19 PM
I was thinking about keeping a good selection of Krylon around.. I want my rifle to match what I wear.

It'll be part of my hustle at the matches.. :)

wildcard
01-30-2008, 1:21 PM
Exactly.

Do I look like someone trying to make a fashion statement?


Only if your statement is "I don't give a crap" ;)

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 1:25 PM
Only if your statement is "I don't give a crap" ;)

Ding Ding Ding.
We got a winner.

wildcard
01-30-2008, 1:27 PM
Ding Ding Ding.
We got a winner.

Wonder how it would work out if I used the same answer the next time a girl asks me "So how do I look?"

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 1:28 PM
Wonder how it would work out if I used the same answer the next time a girl asks me "So how do I look?"

Probably not as good as it could have otherwise.

wildcard
01-30-2008, 1:47 PM
Just got quoted from GAP on the price of a Stiller TAC338 Barreled action.. $1600. Just got to see how much R+D can do it for now.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 2:07 PM
Exactly.

Do I look like someone trying to make a fashion statement?

http://www.baudarstudio.com/APS/2008apswinner1.jpg

what are you talking about? flannel is back in. :)

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 2:18 PM
Just got quoted from GAP on the price of a Stiller TAC338 Barreled action.. $1600. Just got to see how much R+D can do it for now.

$700 action, $330 barrel, $30 recoil, $150 duracoat = $390 to chamber! wow! that's gap. it's like spending $200 on true religion jeans. nice, buy dayam expensive. name brand. go figure.

r+d all the way. randy only builds one kind of rifles. tack drivers. no fluff, just tack drivers.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 2:39 PM
$700 action, $330 barrel, $30 recoil, $150 duracoat = $390 to chamber! wow! that's gap. it's like spending $200 on true religion jeans. nice, buy dayam expensive. name brand. go figure.

Good thing he does not need to shorten the barrel blank, crown the muzzle, thread the barrel for the action and cut the bolt counterbore.

Oh wait, he does have to do all that along with chambering the barrel. ;)

What does Randy charge for the same work?

wildcard
01-30-2008, 2:44 PM
$700 action, $330 barrel, $30 recoil, $150 duracoat = $390 to chamber! wow! that's gap. it's like spending $200 on true religion jeans. nice, buy dayam expensive. name brand. go figure.

r+d all the way. randy only builds one kind of rifles. tack drivers. no fluff, just tack drivers.

Actually.. the action runs $900 with the lug already pinned. Don't think they duracoat.. so yeah.. still ~$400 to chamber.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 2:47 PM
Good thing he does not need to shorten the barrel blank, crown the muzzle, thread the barrel for the action and cut the bolt counterbore.

Oh wait, he does have to do all that along with chambering the barrel. ;)

What does Randy charge for the same work? $200

wildcard
01-30-2008, 2:50 PM
$200

Sweet. Now I just need to get him to commit after the SHOT Show. That $200 saving will help me offset the price of the 100 brass I bought.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 2:59 PM
Sweet. Now I just need to get him to commit after the SHOT Show. That $200 saving will help me offset the price of the 100 brass I bought.


as long as he has the reamer for it. if he doesn't he charges you for the reamer. but 338 should be good.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 3:28 PM
as long as he has the reamer for it. if he doesn't he charges you for the reamer.

Does he keep the reamer or do you get it after the job?

Cypriss32
01-30-2008, 3:57 PM
338 huh? Im interested to see how much you use it. If it was mine, I would be shooting across canyons on a weekly basis. But whos to say my stuff get used?

rksimple
01-30-2008, 4:20 PM
Sweet. Now I just need to get him to commit after the SHOT Show. That $200 saving will help me offset the price of the 100 brass I bought.

I don't think you should have a problem. He likes working on stillers and his prices can't be beat.

What contour did you want on the barrel?

wildcard
01-30-2008, 5:25 PM
I don't think you should have a problem. He likes working on stillers and his prices can't be beat.

What contour did you want on the barrel?

MTU.. so just a little thicker and heavier than AMU. Still going to be a 1.250 breach so it doesn't become overly heavy. Both Randy and George tell me that it'll be just fine

Truth be told, i'd love to do business with George cause he's real helpful and responsive.. but his prices are just too high. If I had money to burn, I'd certainly go with him.

wildcard
01-30-2008, 5:34 PM
338 huh? Im interested to see how much you use it. If it was mine, I would be shooting across canyons on a weekly basis. But whos to say my stuff get used?

I plan to improve myself as a shooter with my .308 first. Once I feel that my skills are developed to my satisfaction, I'll start using my .300 WM for further skill development at more extended ranges and maintenance at shorter ones. I have no intention of using my .338 as my standard weekly shooter. I'll probably shoot it a bit once a month and use it when I have access to 1600+ yds.

Everything has a purpose. The 6.5 Grendel will be used when i'm not restricted to bolt action :)

Cypriss32
01-30-2008, 6:00 PM
I guess whatever floats your boat right? I got the camcorder linned up to see how much a waist of money it is. U bash me I do the same :) Its just how it goes right...... Its just gona be easier for me now.......... Goes for the rest of you now too. Its all fun and games I hope noone gets mad, can you take it like you dish it?

wildcard
01-30-2008, 6:15 PM
I guess whatever floats your boat right? I got the camcorder linned up to see how much a waist of money it is. U bash me I do the same :) Its just how it goes right...... Its just gona be easier for me now.......... Goes for the rest of you now too. Its all fun and games I hope noone gets mad, can you take it like you dish it?

Haha. I don't get mad.. but I do seek proof and resolution. We've been trying to get you to come out for a friendly challenge but something always coincidentally comes up and all we get are excuses instead of action. We invite you to shut us up.. or at least try :) You claim the skill and the equipment, so come show us and back-up what you say. Or you can bust out with the "I've got nothing to prove" line again.

In the end it's just all fun and games.. and a bit of pride :43:

Cypriss32
01-30-2008, 6:27 PM
Hey man im sorry......... Sometimes ive got priorities.... School and work pays for that! Its more important then shooting right now. Im going outside to load some bullets so i can come out and **** around. I gotta throw my SSS trigger on and sight it in this weekend. Prolly friday morning Im going out.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 6:29 PM
You guys crack me up. I think I'm the only one thats talked with Adam enough to realize he isn't blowing smoke. It is VERY coincidental that he doesn't have anything to shoot when a challenge comes up, but thats just the way it is. When we were out there during the class, he was ringin' the steel with the majority of us. In fact, didn't you miss quite a bit, Jason, at the 500 yard steel? I know you guys like to have a whipping boy and all, but dayum, this is getting out of hand.

On the other hand, you could continue on and spur each other a bit and it will probably force a little more practice out of all of us.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 6:30 PM
I have no intention of using my .338 as my standard weekly shooter. I'll probably shoot it a bit once a month and use it when I have access to 1600+ yds.

Getting a 30-40 MOA base are we?

Cypriss32
01-30-2008, 6:32 PM
AM i not the only one hit hit the 3" poper at 600 yards or whatever it was? I didnt have cheat sheet eather. It was made my guess and Adams great knowledge. Nothing is printed about my caliber or anything. Im wondering my drop for 2926 FPS with 190gr SMKS and an 26.5" barrel?

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 6:33 PM
Prolly friday morning Im going out.

I have friday off.
Where are we going?
I have not shot in 5 days and I need to shoot something at least once a week.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 6:35 PM
AM i not the only one hit hit the 3" poper at 600 yards or whatever it was? I didnt have cheat sheet eather. It was made my guess and Adams great knowledge. Nothing is printed about my caliber or anything. Im wondering my drop for 2926 FPS with 190gr SMKS and an 26.5" barrel?

Screw the 190 SMK, go with the 155 scenar at 3150 or so. Flatter and less wind.

Cypriss32
01-30-2008, 6:36 PM
Were are you at? Theres a place likes Petes I goto..... I might go there, its a secret.


I shoot 210gr VLDS and 208gr AMAX now. I just have 150 loaded up.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 6:38 PM
I know you guys like to have a whipping boy and all, but dayum, this is getting out of hand.

Someone always has to be the whipping boy.
We need Tom back.

They used to give me crap about not shooting precision rifles.
I think it's just showing up that helps more than being a good shot.
I finally showed up for my first match and did ok so I guess I get a pass for a while. :)

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 6:42 PM
Im wondering my drop for 2926 FPS with 190gr SMKS and an 26.5" barrel?


Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 3700 ft.
Air density : 0.072982 lb./ft³
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gun / Ammunition : .30-06 Spring.
Bullet : .308, 190, Sierra HP MatchK 2210
Bullet weight : 190 grains or 12.31 Grams
Muzzle velocity : 2925 fps
Crosswind speed : 5 Mph
Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1):
C1=0.524@V>2100 fps;
C2=0.516@V>1600 fps;
C3=0.506@V>0 fps;


Optimum trajectory information :
Optimum sight-in range (X) = 225 Yds.
with max. ordinate above LOS at range (M)= 134 Yds.
and max. point blank range (P)= 261 Yds.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sight-in clicks, 1 click = 0.915 cm/100 yd. or 0.36 in/100 yd.
Height of sight above bore axis = 5.334 cm or 2.10 inch
Gun is zeroed-in at 100 yds,
by sighting-in at level firing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 5.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2925 0.0000 3609 -2.1 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
| 25 2882 0.0258 3502 -1.2 0.0 0.07 0.1 +13.0 +4.47 0.28
| 50 2839 0.0521 3399 -0.5 0.1 0.14 0.5 +2.8 +0.97 0.57
| 75 2796 0.0789 3298 -0.1 0.2 0.22 1.2 +0.4 +0.14 0.86
M 98 2757 0.1039 3207 0.0 0.3 0.29 2.0 0.0 0.00 1.14
X 100 2754 0.1060 3199 0.0 0.3 0.29 2.1 0.0 0.00 1.16
| 125 2712 0.1336 3103 -0.2 0.5 0.36 3.4 +0.4 +0.14 1.46
| 150 2671 0.1616 3009 -0.6 0.7 0.44 4.9 +1.2 +0.41 1.77
| 175 2630 0.1900 2918 -1.4 0.9 0.50 6.7 +2.3 +0.78 2.08
P 189 2607 0.2061 2868 -2.0 1.1 0.54 7.9 +2.9 +1.01 2.25
| 200 2590 0.2188 2829 -2.5 1.2 0.57 8.9 +3.5 +1.20 2.39
| 225 2549 0.2479 2741 -3.9 1.5 0.64 11.3 +4.8 +1.67 2.71
| 250 2510 0.2774 2656 -5.6 1.8 0.71 14.1 +6.3 +2.16 3.03
| 275 2470 0.3072 2573 -7.6 2.2 0.77 17.2 +7.8 +2.67 3.36
| 300 2431 0.3375 2492 -10.0 2.6 0.84 20.7 +9.4 +3.22 3.69
| 325 2392 0.3685 2413 -12.8 3.1 0.91 24.5 +11.0 +3.79 4.03
| 350 2354 0.4001 2336 -16.0 3.6 0.99 28.8 +12.8 +4.39 4.38
| 375 2316 0.4323 2261 -19.6 4.2 1.07 33.4 +14.6 +5.01 4.73
| 400 2278 0.4652 2188 -23.6 4.8 1.15 38.5 +16.4 +5.65 5.09
| 425 2240 0.4985 2117 -28.0 5.5 1.24 44.0 +18.4 +6.32 5.45
| 450 2203 0.5324 2048 -32.9 6.2 1.32 49.9 +20.3 +7.00 5.82
| 475 2167 0.5669 1980 -38.2 7.0 1.41 56.3 +22.4 +7.70 6.20
| 500 2130 0.6019 1914 -43.9 7.8 1.50 63.1 +24.5 +8.41 6.58
| 525 2094 0.6374 1850 -50.2 8.7 1.58 70.4 +26.6 +9.14 6.97
| 550 2058 0.6734 1786 -56.8 9.6 1.67 78.1 +28.7 +9.89 7.36
| 575 2022 0.7098 1725 -64.0 10.6 1.76 86.3 +31.0 +10.65 7.76
| 600 1987 0.7466 1665 -71.6 11.5 1.84 95.0 +33.2 +11.41 8.17
| 625 1951 0.7840 1606 -79.7 12.6 1.92 104.1 +35.5 +12.20 8.57
| 650 1916 0.8225 1549 -88.5 13.7 2.01 114.0 +37.8 +13.02 8.99
| 675 1882 0.8619 1494 -97.9 14.9 2.11 124.5 +40.3 +13.87 9.43
| 700 1848 0.9023 1440 -108.0 16.2 2.21 135.7 +42.9 +14.76 9.87
| 725 1815 0.9437 1389 -118.9 17.6 2.32 147.6 +45.6 +15.68 10.32
| 750 1782 0.9859 1339 -130.4 19.1 2.43 160.2 +48.3 +16.63 10.78
| 775 1749 1.0289 1291 -142.7 20.6 2.54 173.5 +51.2 +17.60 11.25
| 800 1717 1.0727 1244 -155.7 22.2 2.65 187.6 +54.1 +18.61 11.73
| 825 1686 1.1173 1199 -169.5 23.9 2.76 202.4 +57.1 +19.64 12.22
| 850 1655 1.1627 1155 -184.0 25.6 2.88 218.0 +60.1 +20.69 12.72
| 875 1624 1.2087 1113 -199.3 27.4 2.99 234.3 +63.3 +21.76 13.22
| 900 1594 1.2554 1071 -215.3 29.2 3.10 251.4 +66.5 +22.86 13.73
| 925 1563 1.3028 1031 -232.1 31.2 3.22 269.3 +69.7 +23.98 14.25
| 950 1533 1.3509 992 -249.6 33.1 3.33 287.9 +73.0 +25.11 14.77
| 975 1504 1.3995 954 -268.0 35.2 3.44 307.3 +76.4 +26.26 15.31
| 1000 1475 1.4492 918 -287.4 37.3 3.56 327.8 +79.8 +27.46 15.85
| 1025 1447 1.5002 883 -307.9 39.5 3.68 349.4 +83.5 +28.71 16.41
| 1050 1420 1.5526 850 -329.7 41.9 3.81 372.2 +87.2 +30.01 16.98
| 1075 1393 1.6061 819 -352.8 44.3 3.94 396.3 +91.2 +31.36 17.56
| 1100 1368 1.6607 789 -377.0 46.9 4.07 421.6 +95.2 +32.75 18.16
| 1125 1343 1.7164 761 -402.5 49.5 4.20 448.2 +99.4 +34.18 18.77
| 1150 1319 1.7729 733 -429.1 52.2 4.34 475.9 +103.6 +35.65 19.39
| 1175 1295 1.8303 707 -457.0 55.0 4.47 504.8 +108.0 +37.16 20.02
| 1200 1272 1.8885 682 -486.0 57.9 4.61 534.9 +112.5 +38.69 20.65

rksimple
01-30-2008, 7:00 PM
Hey Randall, does that program list 3 BC's for the 155 scenar? Haven't been able to find but the .508 they list.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 7:21 PM
Were are you at? Theres a place likes Petes I goto..... I might go there, its a secret.


I shoot 210gr VLDS and 208gr AMAX now. I just have 150 loaded up.

Culver City, but I can meet up about anywhere...

Give me velocities or loads and I'll run them through quickload/quicktarget.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 7:22 PM
Hey Randall, does that program list 3 BC's for the 155 scenar? Haven't been able to find but the .508 they list.

No.
I wish I had some boundary BC's for Scenars.

wildcard
01-30-2008, 7:30 PM
In fact, didn't you miss quite a bit, Jason, at the 500 yard steel? I know you guys like to have a whipping boy and all, but dayum, this is getting out of hand.

On the other hand, you could continue on and spur each other a bit and it will probably force a little more practice out of all of us.

Yeah.. but that just means i'll be easy to beat :) And it was 400 yds.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 7:36 PM
Yeah.. but that just means i'll be easy to beat :) And it was 400 yds.

Well, the 338 should help with that. It'll be a laser, and probably crater the steel.

wildcard
01-30-2008, 7:39 PM
Someone always has to be the whipping boy.
We need Tom back.

The irony of it all is that the SCPRC was his idea! You topped the cake when you said the reason he doesn't shoot a 700P instead of his Savage is because he can't afford it :chris:

wildcard
01-30-2008, 7:41 PM
Well, the 338 should help with that. It'll be a laser, and probably crater the steel.

Na. I'm not getting flatter and harder shooters to improve my shooting.. I wouldn't be learning anything. It's just to progressively increase my skill and knowledge base.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 7:48 PM
Na. I'm not getting flatter and harder shooters to improve my shooting.. I wouldn't be learning anything. It's just to progressively increase my skill and knowledge base.

I hear ya. I'm just giving you a hard time. The 338 is one to not even worry about pulling the trigger unless its 800 or beyond.

wildcard
01-30-2008, 7:53 PM
I hear ya. I'm just giving you a hard time. The 338 is one to not even worry about pulling the trigger unless its 800 or beyond.

Or to punch out the bolts at ASR :43:

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 7:53 PM
Does he keep the reamer or do you get it after the job?

Randy keeps the reamer.

rksimple
01-30-2008, 7:54 PM
Or to punch out the bolts at ASR :43:

I love it! I'd love to see the targets fall one by after repeated hits. Do the 50 guys do this out there?

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 7:54 PM
AM i not the only one hit hit the 3" poper at 600 yards or whatever it was? I didnt have cheat sheet eather. It was made my guess and Adams great knowledge. Nothing is printed about my caliber or anything. Im wondering my drop for 2926 FPS with 190gr SMKS and an 26.5" barrel?

the three inch poper was at the 400yard, and i was the first one to hit it on my first try.

Cypriss32
01-30-2008, 7:57 PM
Pete stop bragging.........

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 7:59 PM
took me awhile to read the last posts. nope not bragging. just stating facts. and adam, don't worry about them giving you a hard time. it's all fun and games.

gonna go to the gym. been sitting on my *** in the last few hours. laters.

Cypriss32
01-30-2008, 8:00 PM
Good luck, Im gona go tommarrow. I dont care, Its all good. I can shoot my rifle without a scope or stock if that makes you feel better?
Na I got the Ar15 put together and 308win.

wildcard
01-30-2008, 8:01 PM
Pete stop bragging.........

He was just correcting your statement :)

wildcard
01-30-2008, 8:02 PM
Time to watch "The Moment of Truth" on FOX 11.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 8:15 PM
Randy keeps the reamer.

So he's really charging $330 then, not $200 to do the job.
If you are paying for the reamer, it technically should be yours.

When I buy a reamer for a job, I charge an extra $50 for the first 3-4 barrels to use that reamer.
That way no single customer is paying for the full price of the reamer.

ar15barrels
01-30-2008, 8:16 PM
I love it! I'd love to see the targets fall one by after repeated hits. Do the 50 guys do this out there?

You are only allowed to shoot the red plates with a 50.
At least that's what they told me when I was shooting my 50 at angeles.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 8:59 PM
So he's really charging $330 then, not $200 to do the job.
If you are paying for the reamer, it technically should be yours.

When I buy a reamer for a job, I charge an extra $50 for the first 3-4 barrels to use that reamer.
That way no single customer is paying for the full price of the reamer.

in his defense it's usually only for custom jobs or odd requests like giving him your handloads to design around or odd calibers. i'm sure he has 338 lupua.

Vu 308
01-30-2008, 9:00 PM
we'll lay ourselves out between the northerners. it'll be good strategy. j/k

Silly wabbit...brakes are for kids. LOL:43:

Timberwolf
01-30-2008, 10:02 PM
Silly wabbit...brakes are for kids. LOL:43:

You're only saying that because your peashooters and BB guns don't need brakes. Hell I don't use a brake on my varmit rifle either.

PistolPete75
01-30-2008, 10:06 PM
that one made me laugh.

Vu 308
01-31-2008, 6:56 AM
LOL...the only thing I have a brake on is a 300WM lobbing 210gn VLDs @ 2850

Now now Twolf...you know dyam well you have a large number of ant guns down there. LOL look at MarK's SCPRC match.

From Nor Cal
Me...308
Shawn 308
Clint 308
Fred 308
Jason Boak 308
Marc 260rem
Jim Erikson 308
Greg Wahlmier - 6.5x47
Edited to add Mike Cecil 308


Now lets see if I can't remember some of the other shooters.

Ron - 243 braked
Don - 243 braked
Mike -243 braked
Cheryl - 260rem Most wiked brake I have ever seen or heard (she whooped my *** too)
Rod - 260rem
Bolo - Steve 260 AI BRAKED!!! Well steve is old as dirt and has soft shoulders
Pascal 308 braked
Twolf - 308 braked
Dave McGrath 308 braked

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I may have to join the crew and brake my next 308.

ar15barrels
01-31-2008, 7:55 AM
I may have to join the crew and brake my next 308.

Braked 243.
Mmmmmm, tasty.

Timberwolf
01-31-2008, 8:01 AM
LOL...the only thing I have a brake on is a 300WM lobbing 210gn VLDs @ 2850

I may have to join the crew and brake my next 308.

I've got the name of a good gunsmith ;)

ar15barrels
01-31-2008, 8:02 AM
I've got the name of a good gunsmith ;)

His name is Bill?

Timberwolf
01-31-2008, 8:07 AM
His name is Bill?

I only work on stuck bolts :smash:

ar15barrels
01-31-2008, 8:10 AM
I only work on stuck bolts :smash:

Oh, so you must have a 2x4. ;)

I've got the name of a good gunsmith too.
Randall Rausch.

Timberwolf
01-31-2008, 8:13 AM
Oh, so you must have a 2x4. ;)

I've got the name of a good gunsmith too.
Randall Rausch.

I have a special one that stays in the range house. ;)

ar15barrels
01-31-2008, 8:15 AM
I have a special one that stays in the range house. ;)

Is that the "700 bolt breaker" Ryan loves to refer to?

rksimple
01-31-2008, 8:20 AM
Is that the "700 bolt breaker" Ryan loves to refer to?

Thats the one. Its a very specialized piece of equipment. Like when patients of mine have a hard time getting numb, I break out the "anesthesia hammer." I clean the grease off of it first though.