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View Full Version : Judge shoots down ATF motion on Red's


aileron
01-29-2008, 6:33 AM
This is good news.... Sort of.

http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/2008/01/26/news/local_state/129503.txt


Judge shoots down ATF motion on Red's
By Cassidy Friedman
Times-News writer
Red's Trading Post will have its day in court, possibly in February.

U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge of Boise on Thursday rejected a federal agency's claim that the Twin Falls gun dealing business has fallen short of showing grounds for a hearing.

"The judge wants to hear all the people and look at all the evidence," said Mark Geston, a Boise attorney representing the gun dealership.

The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives had asked for a summary judgment against the business it says "willfully" violated agency rules. The ATF can administratively revoke a gun dealer's federal firearms license. But in Red's case, the business has challenged the agency in court and in the court of public opinion.

The ATF sought to revoke Red's license last March. The first challenge came in April, when Red's moved for a preliminary injunction to freeze implementation of the revocation. The judge granted the motion, allowing the business to continue selling guns, though under tighter surveillance by agents who then reported finding more violations.

On Thursday, U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge discarded a motion for summary judgment filed by the ATF. That motion says "either the facts or the law is just so clear that there really is no reason for a day in court," Geston said.

Had the judge granted the summary judgment, Red's would have lost the case. But it could have appealed the decision.

Geston says a trial to start Feb. 25 will hinge mainly over the two party's interpretations of "willful."

Red's legal team has argued the violations amount to clerical errors. A huge volume of case law will help the judge reach his own opinion of how to apply that term to this case.

In mid-December, acting on complaints from Red's and other gun dealers who say the ATF is overly aggressive in enforcing guns, Idaho's Republican Sens. Larry Craig and Mike Crapo placed separate holds on the president's nomination of the agency's head.

That brought additional public attention to the plight of Red's and other gun dealers who say they are under attack by the federal regulators.

Geston says the political realm is separate from what happens in court.

"There's been political attention focused on this thing but I haven't looked at it because really that's not my concern," Geston said. "We believe we are correct in our dealings."

After almost a full year, Red's will have its chance to prove it.

Cassidy Friedman

bluestaterebel
01-29-2008, 4:15 PM
the people at Red's trading post are way cool. i hope everything works out for them.

halifax
01-29-2008, 6:24 PM
I really don't understand this:

The ATF sought to revoke Red's license last March. The first challenge came in April, when Red's moved for a preliminary injunction to freeze implementation of the revocation. The judge granted the motion, allowing the business to continue selling guns, though under tighter surveillance by agents who then reported finding more violations.

A/D books are straight forward and simple to maintain and 4473s just aren't that difficult. How can they continue have violations knowing ATF is watching?

Librarian
01-29-2008, 7:24 PM
I really don't understand this:



A/D books are straight forward and simple to maintain and 4473s just aren't that difficult. How can they continue have violations knowing ATF is watching?
See Ryan's Blog (http://redstradingpost.blogspot.com/) for their side of the story.

pnkssbtz
01-29-2008, 7:31 PM
I really don't understand this:



A/D books are straight forward and simple to maintain and 4473s just aren't that difficult. How can they continue have violations knowing ATF is watching?
If the ATF can declare a shoe string a machine gun, then they can make up anything they want and call it a "willful error" even if its just a bug getting squished on the page.

LAK Supply
01-29-2008, 8:09 PM
The ATF is great at disregarding law and making up violations as they go. There are untold numbers of gun dealers out there who are scared to do something as legal and simple as receive a gun from a private party (even though the regs and ATF site says it's fine) because their local ATF field "officers" have tormented and threatened them. I pointed this out to a place who had been told by their local ATF agent that it was a violation to accept a weapon from a private party... I even showed them the regs. They said "the ATF agent says it's illegal, so it's a no-go."

The ATF is an agency that was never supposed to exist.... how do you honestly place an agency in charge of regulating the tools that are meant to protect the people from them? That's like a union being able to legislate what their materials prices are, or a group of convicted bank robbers creating laws about bank tellers having firearms at work. There are no true checks and balances for the ATF because government has the tendency to grow and protect itself. Firearms were meant to be a sort of balance between the people and the crooks in government... it makes perfect sense that the ATF would do their best to eradicate the tools that equalize the commoners with them.

If you want an interesting picture, go to the ATF site and review the list of dealers who have had their licenses revoked over the last several years. It is interesting to find that they work certain areas, taking several licenses away at a time in certain areas. You will see something like....

Alabama, Louisiana, Arizona, Arizona, Arizona, Arizona, Arizona, Arizona, Maine, California, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Idaho, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Montana, Montana, Montana, Montana, South Dakota, Utah, Utah, Utah, Utah, Utah, Utah, Utah......

It's unfortunate.

PIRATE14
01-29-2008, 8:59 PM
I really don't understand this:
A/D books are straight forward and simple to maintain and 4473s just aren't that difficult. How can they continue have violations knowing ATF is watching?

You got to be joking have you ever watched people fill out 4473s......not too mention all the CALIFORNIA paper work......