PDA

View Full Version : How do you legally obtain hi caps/kits (as a business/manufacture) post SB48


RANGER295
10-29-2013, 4:53 AM
I was wondering what the processes is for a business to get a "high capacity magazine" permit? Do you have to be an FFL? After starting a project and realizing the scarcity of certain gun related items, I made them myself. (being intentionally vague so someone doesn't swoop on my idea) After talking to a few people and the owner of a firearms manufacture and reading various forums, I am thinking of commercially making these parts and selling them. I would need to make more than just these couple parts to make it worth while.

One of the other things I want to make are 10 round magazines for certain firearms out of 11+ round magazines. The couple I am thinking of, the only 10 rounders available are either crappy plastic mags that are $60ish and for the other. converted 30 rounders for $90ish. I can make them way cheaper out of quality 30 and 32 round mags/kits but after the end of the year will no longer be able to buy the kits. I currently have a couple crates of these mags that I acquired before the ban but do not want to tap into my personal stash and they would be quickly depleted.

This would be run through a S Corporation. Is there any legal way to do this?

Findout
10-31-2013, 8:10 AM
Wait, so you want to buy 30 round magazines and convert them to 10 round magazines and sell them? Am I reading that right?

I don't think there's any way to do what you want legally, and I don't think there's any reason to even if you could.

njineermike
10-31-2013, 9:21 AM
Drive to Nevada and buy them by the case, convert there, drive back with a case of converted mags. Legal, no paperwork required.

SC_SD
10-31-2013, 4:00 PM
... I don't think there's any reason to even if you could.

A longer magazine body, at least in an AR15/10 pattern rifle, is a safety design irrespective of the number of rounds the magazine holds.

The significant majority of malfunctions, failure to feed/fire/eject also require removal of the magazine to safely clear the malfunction. Not only does the BB itself make magazine removal more dangerous, but specifically, if the body of the mag barely protrudes from the magwell it doubly makes clearing the jam/misfeed more dangerous as you can't even get a good grip on the magazine to remove.

That is about as valid of a reason as can possible be had for the need of 10/30 mags, especially in BB equipped rifles.

njineermike
10-31-2013, 4:03 PM
For some reason the quote function isn't working. SC_SD: I use a 10 rd only for bench sighting, but only because it sits better for a bench.

SC_SD
10-31-2013, 4:13 PM
For some reason the quote function isn't working. SC_SD: I use a 10 rd only for bench sighting, but only because it sits better for a bench.

Definitely a 10rd is better for bench shooting.

That said, in the rare event you get a double feed or something along those lines, even while bench shooting, it can be difficult to remove a mag even with a solid grip, let alone fingertips.

fizux
10-31-2013, 4:32 PM
Definitely a 10rd is better for bench shooting.

That said, in the rare event you get a double feed or something along those lines, even while bench shooting, it can be difficult to remove a mag even with a solid grip, let alone fingertips.
Let's see, to clear a bolt override, that would be one hand pulling back on the charging handle, a second hand to hold the bolt catch, a third hand to handle the bullet button, and a fourth hand to get the fingertips around the bottom of the 10-rd mag and pull down.

At least with standard size mags, hand number two can pull on the mag while its thumb is on the bolt catch.

This AW ban requiring crippled mags and bullet buttons is a serious problem from a self-defense perspective, especially in the dark. Maybe our wonderful legislature will pass a bill requiring home invaders to provide malfunction clearing assistance to homeowners prior to raping and killing them. Yeah, that will work.

RANGER295
10-31-2013, 9:05 PM
Wait, so you want to buy 30 round magazines and convert them to 10 round magazines and sell them? Am I reading that right?

I don't think there's any way to do what you want legally, and I don't think there's any reason to even if you could.

Yes you read that correctly.

The main reason is because there are really no reliable 10 round mags available for the weapons I am specifically thinking about. There are some very overpriced plastic ones that leave a lot to be desired. The only metal ones available are 32 rounders for one weapon and 30 for the other. I would probably end up shortening the mag bodies anyway so it is not like they would be 10/30's. This is about availability and economy.

1859sharps
11-02-2013, 8:47 PM
I do believe this is at least theoretically possible. but you probably want to consult with a lawyer that actually understands California gun laws, verse just a business lawyer.

The reason I believe it would be legal to import parts in your context is because on of the ways suggested as probably legal for repairing a +11 mag post 1-1-2014 is to take it to a FFL with a Large capacity magazine license, let them order the parts, and install the parts needed to repair your legal +11 magazine.

So, based on that, it is at least in theory possible, if you had the right permits and license, you could order any +11 magazine you wanted to, then convert them to 10 rounds or less.

However, to my knowledge, the CAL DOJ has never given any guidance on what constitutes a legal way to take a +11 magazine and make it a 10 or less magazine. I would suggest the safest way is to follow what the ATF put together as guidance when the federal +11 capacity was in force. which may or may not eliminate the cost saving of buying already manufactured magazines and modifying them to be 10 or less.

rambutan316
11-06-2013, 11:46 AM
Drive to Nevada and buy them by the case, convert there, drive back with a case of converted mags. Legal, no paperwork required.

So does that mean it's still legal to import rebuild kits, but not buy them and bring them here? It's seems really confusing to me. What if I have a friend who mails me rebuild kits? Even if I pay for them, can I just say he gave them to me for free? Or are rebuild kits going to banned outright no matter how I obtained them?:facepalm:

AKSOG
11-06-2013, 11:54 AM
So does that mean it's still legal to import rebuild kits, but not buy them and bring them here? It's seems really confusing to me. What if I have a friend who mails me rebuild kits? Even if I pay for them, can I just say he gave them to me for free? Or are rebuild kits going to banned outright no matter how I obtained them?:facepalm:

It's still legal until the end of the year. What I think he was referring to was buying and permanently converting standard capacity magazines to 10 rounders before returning

AlliedArmory
11-07-2013, 5:48 AM
To get mags with 10+ capacity shipped to your door as a Dealer, you have to have a FFL with a hi-cap permit from the DOJ or purchase them from a middleman as rebuild kits.

RANGER295
11-07-2013, 8:26 PM
To get mags with 10+ capacity shipped to your door as a Dealer, you have to have a FFL with a hi-cap permit from the DOJ or purchase them from a middleman as rebuild kits.

That basically answers my question. You actually have to have an FFL to get the permit. I knew there was a permit but did not know if you had to have an FFL to get it or could just be a business.

I think that it is stupid that you have to have an FFL. That precludes a non FFL manufacturing company from making mags. I do not think that the two should be tied.