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Vu 308
01-28-2008, 4:40 PM
Guys,

As you have seen in other threads Twolf and I are trying to put together a friendly match between our shooters up here and you guys down south. Here are some of the details we have worked out so far.

Location: APS this time around and next time I'll host @ Sac Valley.

Date: We are looking late September, most likely the last weekend.

Time: Saturday afternoon till 2200 and then wrap up by 1230 Sunday AM

Caliber: Bolt Rifle 308win (brakes will be allowed) 50% of the team must be shooting 308win. The other 50% is open.

Prizes: A really nice trophy that the winning team keeps until the next North vs South shoot. Hopefully this will turn into a yearly event.

T-Shirts

Cost: Whatever it cost for Twolf to have the range for the time needed.
T-Shirt Cost
Trophy Cost

Probably be 10 vs. 10, maximum of 20 shooters.

All the points will be added up for all 10 shooters on each team and the team with the higher score wins. Pretty simple.

Tie breaker will be done with a dueling popper I can bring down. :43:

Twolf can choose his 9 other team members and I will do the same up here.

Suggestions? Thoughts? Comments?

wildcard
01-28-2008, 4:49 PM
Sounds like fun. I'll start training up and maybe I can earn myself a slot.

Doesn't this format create an extreme home court advantage? To keep it fair and if it doesn't turn into a logistics nightmare, perhaps the visitor should take lead in creating the COF.

Pthfndr
01-28-2008, 4:53 PM
What's with the .308 only thing?

I'd love to shoot it, but if it's .308 only and brakes are allowed then I guess I'm out.
New barrel, brake, DBM, extra mags, plus the related gunsmithing fees are just not in the budget for the foreseeable future.

Vu 308
01-28-2008, 4:58 PM
Rob,

LOL. I knew you were going to post!!!!!

Trying to get rid of the mouse guns. =) Yes...yes...I know..the 6.5x55 has been a military round way before the 308win.

ar15barrels
01-28-2008, 4:59 PM
What's with the .308 only thing?

Keeps the gamers out. ;)

ar15barrels
01-28-2008, 5:02 PM
You could also just institute a power factor of 410

168gr bullets at 2500 or better would meet the power floor, but 139's at 2900 would NOT meet it.

emc002
01-28-2008, 5:06 PM
Why only bolt .308s?
There are plenty of .308 semi-auto's out there that can be tack drivers...

Timberwolf
01-28-2008, 5:09 PM
As a correction I'll be selecting 10 shooting team members as I'll remain a non-shooting Cpt - I think I'll be too busy running the events to shoot, besides I have way too much home court advantage all things considered.

rksimple
01-28-2008, 5:15 PM
Sounds like fun. I'll start training up and maybe I can earn myself a slot.



Well lets start training! I need to get some solid dope at APS anyway. Is it open on Fridays?

Timberwolf
01-28-2008, 5:18 PM
Well lets start training! I need to get some solid dope at APS anyway. Is it open on Fridays?

Yes and usually pretty quiet except for the few regulars.

Pthfndr
01-28-2008, 5:19 PM
You could also just institute a power factor of 410

168gr bullets at 2500 or better would meet the power floor, but 139's at 2900 would NOT meet it.

Could you explain how that works please.

rksimple
01-28-2008, 5:19 PM
Yes and usually pretty quiet except for the few regulars.

Anyway I could get there early and get some 860 yard dope?

Pthfndr
01-28-2008, 5:21 PM
Keeps the gamers out. ;)

Well hell, then let's say it has to be a box stock factory Remington or Savage then. :rolleyes:

Timberwolf
01-28-2008, 5:23 PM
Anyway I could get there early and get some 860 yard dope?

Uh Uh not unless I'm working there that day. That said I normally work the Friday before the APS match.

PistolPete75
01-28-2008, 6:26 PM
hell yeah! sounds like fun! Timber, what are your qualifications on earning a slot?

wildcard
01-28-2008, 6:35 PM
hell yeah! sounds like fun! Timber, what are your qualifications on earning a slot?

Win some of his matches :) Looks like we'll be missing class once a month.

PistolPete75
01-28-2008, 6:39 PM
i just came back from the gym. i was thinking of pulling out of the machining class. probably keep the gunsmithing on a hobby level and just build stuff for myself. there are too many saturdays to give up.

i've been pretty dam confident in my shooting lately. i'm trying to improve certain week points in my shooting. once i get my strength up, i should be good to go.

Vu 308
01-28-2008, 7:26 PM
Rob,

What if some nice guy you knew had a Rem 5R stuck in a A2 with Badger BM let you use that rig for a few months prior to this event...would you go then?

I'll shoot my FN.

Vu

Fjold
01-28-2008, 7:41 PM
You could also just institute a power factor of 410

168gr bullets at 2500 or better would meet the power floor, but 139's at 2900 would NOT meet it.

A 142 grain at 2900 fps would make it. (Oops, gamer) :D

Vu 308
01-28-2008, 7:45 PM
LOL....

I sent Mr. Bill a PM asking maybe 50/50

Rules would be 50% of your shooters have to be shooting 308Win.

Other 50% is open.

His house...his rules. I am just helping with logistics as much as I can from afar. Next year it will be done at Sac Valley.

Cypriss32
01-28-2008, 7:52 PM
I better be able to shoot 7wsm or 30-06.

Vu 308
01-28-2008, 8:10 PM
Maybe something like this engraved with points winning team?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/vuhpham/CCB912.gif

PistolPete75
01-28-2008, 8:12 PM
that'll work. will there be individual trophies too for the highest score?

re: caliber. i say keep it .308/ 30-06 ain't no fun without some recoil.

Vu 308
01-28-2008, 8:16 PM
I dunno..personally I rather keep it all team. There are plenty of matches where you worry about your own score.

I would agree on the calibers you suggested but it may be a lil hard for me find 10 guys that shoot nothing but 308 to make the trip. If we open it 50 50 it makes it easier to find shooters.

Just a thought....Twolf gets final say as it is his house.

Vu

rksimple
01-28-2008, 8:25 PM
The 50/50 isn't a bad idea. 50% of us probably shoot 308 anyway.

Pthfndr
01-28-2008, 8:39 PM
I dunno..personally I rather keep it all team. There are plenty of matches where you worry about your own score.

I agree. A match based on the team score would be the way to go for a Nor vs So thing.

I would agree on the calibers you suggested but it may be a lil hard for me find 10 guys that shoot nothing but 308 to make the trip. If we open it 50 50 it makes it easier to find shooters.

Yep. I think in our Norcal Tactical long range finals we only had 4 or 5 in the top 20 that shot a .308 on a regular basis. And I know at least 2 of those are switching this year. One to a .284 and the other to 6.5x55.

Just a thought....Twolf gets final say as it is his house.

Vu

Yes, but I think the rules need to be standardized for both venues.

Rob,

What if some nice guy you knew had a Rem 5R stuck in a A2 with Badger BM let you use that rig for a few months prior to this event...would you go then?

Vu

Why don't you just transfer it to me now, and when I'm done seeing if I like it I'll transfer it back :D

PistolPete75
01-28-2008, 9:16 PM
The 50/50 isn't a bad idea. 50% of us probably shoot 308 anyway.

50% would shoot .308, the south side. otherwise, might as well call it "wildcat"/ open class.

rksimple
01-28-2008, 9:22 PM
50% would shoot .308, the south side. otherwise, might as well call it "wildcat"/ open class.

More than likely. We most all shoot 308s down here. We do stand at quite a disadvantage to the 6mm's. 30cal only would even out the playing field.

PistolPete75
01-28-2008, 9:29 PM
More than likely. We most all shoot 308s down here. We do stand at quite a disadvantage to the 6mm's. 30cal only would even out the playing field.

i agree, let's take the arms race out of the equation as much as possible. good ol' standard .308/30cal.

it's the indian, not the bow right?

it should be (words taken out of a previous thread), a match where a 700p or savage has an equal chance of winning over a highly tuned, custom rifle. i believe in timber's last match, four out of the five top finishers had mildly tuned rifles or stock rifles, and all top 5 finishers were shooting .308

Prc329
01-28-2008, 9:38 PM
I gotta practice my position shooting so I can earn a spot. If not I'll come and watch and take lots of pictures.

PistolPete75
01-28-2008, 9:39 PM
I gotta practice my position shooting so I can earn a spot. If not I'll come and watch and take lots of pictures.

if i don't get a spot, i have a hi-def camcorder. i could record the match.

Cypriss32
01-28-2008, 9:42 PM
lol earn a spot? Whos shooting for us?

Timberwolf
01-28-2008, 9:47 PM
Damn y'all - should I mention the SH Cup this year is .308 only . . . that said though a 50/50 split is fine, but no more that 50/50. We will both have 10 man teams which means at least five must be .308 . . . . there is a 30 cal limit - nothing above 300 Win Mag. But whatever the caliber they must be bolt guns. As far as further restrictions - none except no night vision gear. That means brakes are fine, mags are fine but there will be mandatory reloads if the stage is over 5 rounds.

Now as a word of caution regarding caliber there may be stages where you have to knock over the target . . . if your .223, 6mm, 6.8 mm, 260, 243 or whatever else you run with doesn't do it - tough.

Cypriss32
01-28-2008, 9:49 PM
Good ill shoot 30-06 with 210vlds or 208gr AMAx we are fine.

Timberwolf
01-28-2008, 9:55 PM
So Cal guys forget the arms race crap. I've seen a bone stock 700P in .308stomp a custom 243. This isn't F-class where X counts decide matches and a 1/4 or a 1/2 inch difference in wind call will make you or break you. Y'all have seen custom rifles and calibers miss spanking the buff and maiden and you've also seen your own as well as my .308s ring the crap out of it. Its not the rifle its the shooter.

Cypriss32
01-28-2008, 9:58 PM
Lol here it comes again...... Alright randall........ Whats next?

ivanimal
01-28-2008, 10:01 PM
I own 10 308's and not one except the Ishipore (Indian for POS) is a bolt.:cool:

PistolPete75
01-28-2008, 10:03 PM
I own 10 308's and not one except the Ishipore (Indian for POS) is a bolt.:cool:

simple fix, just go buy one. what's 1 more rifle in your collection?

Vu 308
01-28-2008, 10:29 PM
So Cal guys forget the arms race crap. I've seen a bone stock 700P in .308stomp a custom 243. This isn't F-class where X counts decide matches and a 1/4 or a 1/2 inch difference in wind call will make you or break you. Y'all have seen custom rifles and calibers miss spanking the buff and maiden and you've also seen your own as well as my .308s ring the crap out of it. Its not the rifle its the shooter.


+1 Actually a lot of the guys up here shoot stock 700Ps or 5Rs.

Vu

Cypriss32
01-28-2008, 10:43 PM
Whos shooting in south?

PistolPete75
01-28-2008, 10:58 PM
Whos shooting in south?


tbd over the next few months by Timber. time to get your game on.

Cypriss32
01-28-2008, 11:01 PM
Get my game on? Timbers seen me shoot, I do whatever. Im starting shooting to goto ASC next year and the cup. Thats what mainly important to me.

ar15barrels
01-28-2008, 11:26 PM
Well hell, then let's say it has to be a box stock factory Remington or Savage then. :rolleyes:

I shoot a box stock remington.
Well, at least the action and barrel are stock.
Everything else has been tweeked a little.

Cypriss32
01-28-2008, 11:27 PM
I shoot a box stock remington.
Well, at least the action and barrel are stock.
Everything else has been tweeked a little.

And?

wildcard
01-28-2008, 11:27 PM
I shoot a box stock remington.
Well, at least the action and barrel are stock.
Everything else has been tweeked a little.

Same here.. except for the bedding and brake.

Cypriss32
01-28-2008, 11:28 PM
Same here.. except for the bedding and brake.

And?

wildcard
01-28-2008, 11:30 PM
And?

And what?

ar15barrels
01-28-2008, 11:38 PM
Could you explain how that works please.

Basic power factor is bullet weight x velocity /1000

107gr bullet at 3000fps is 321
139gr bullet at 2800fps is 389
142gr bullet at 2900fps is 412
155gr bullet at 2800fps is 434
168gr bullet at 2700fps is 454
175gr bullet at 2600fps is 455
190gr bullet at 2900fps is 551
210gr bullet at 2800fps is 588
250gr bullet at 3000fps is 750

Power factor should probably be set to 420 or 425 as Frank pointed out that a 260 could JUST break 410 with a 142gr bullet if you pushed it real hard.

ar15barrels
01-28-2008, 11:41 PM
i just came back from the gym. i was thinking of pulling out of the machining class. probably keep the gunsmithing on a hobby level and just build stuff for myself. there are too many saturdays to give up.

Machine shop class monday evenings on the west side.
$55 will get you the semester, 3 hours a week in the machine shop until school is out in june.

No receivers allowed in class, but you can do barrels and learn general machining.
No set curriculum, you just work on your own projects. :)

ar15barrels
01-28-2008, 11:45 PM
I sent Mr. Bill a PM asking maybe 50/50

Rules would be 50% of your shooters have to be shooting 308Win.

Other 50% is open.

Go with the power factor idea.
It only stops the wimpy cartridges.
6.5-284, 30-06 and 7 mag are all fine.

ar15barrels
01-28-2008, 11:52 PM
So Cal guys forget the arms race crap. I've seen a bone stock 700P in .308stomp a custom 243. This isn't F-class where X counts decide matches and a 1/4 or a 1/2 inch difference in wind call will make you or break you. Y'all have seen custom rifles and calibers miss spanking the buff and maiden and you've also seen your own as well as my .308s ring the crap out of it. Its not the rifle its the shooter.

The rifle I shot last week:
Basically stock Sendero action and remington barrel with only HD rifles bolt work and trigger work on the stock remington trigger.
It sits in a PSS stock with HS bottom metal.
That's about as plane-jane as it gets.
It hit the 860 buff at 7:45am in one shot from a cold bore.

Vu 308
01-29-2008, 7:33 AM
Go with the power factor idea.
It only stops the wimpy cartridges.
6.5-284, 30-06 and 7 mag are all fine.


Negative. We will have 50% 308win and 50% open. Done deal on that.

I honestly think Twolf should shoot.....the other 9 team members should be humping targets and help run the match so that he has the chance to pull the trigger.

In the next few months him and I will work out the COF.

Are there hotels next to APS? If so, how far out?

Is it possible for our team from up north to show up on Friday to zero and gather dope? I think the only one that has shot at APS is Marc Soulie from up here.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 7:49 AM
The rifle I shot last week:
Basically stock Sendero action and remington barrel with only HD rifles bolt work and trigger work on the stock remington trigger.
It sits in a PSS stock with HS bottom metal.
That's about as plane-jane as it gets.
It hit the 860 buff at 7:45am in one shot from a cold bore.

I hate to disagree with you guys, but custom rifles and slippery little 6mm's and 6.5's do offer quite an advantage over say stock 308's. If they didn't why would people use them? If its shooter skill we're trying to evaluate, the custom rifle and flatter caliber gives an advantage, and its not all shooter skill thats involved. I could post all day about how I "cleaned customs with my stock POS $1K Savage here, (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=328614#Post328614)" but that doesn't mean that rifle is as capable as a high end custom. Having a stock toploader that can be competitive is really dependent upon the course of fire. I've found that out the hard way.

Now I'm not complaining by any means, but to say its all the shooter is a little naive. I'm more of a "run what you brung" kind of guy, but what ever everyone wants to do is great. If I lose to someone with a 243 or 6.5-284, big deal. Maybe I should switch if I want to stay competitive, right? On the other hand, a 30cal only match will eliminate some of the equipment advantages. Like Bill said, the SH cup is 308 only with factory ammo provided. Seems they're eliminating that from the equation.

Vu, what calibers do the top 10 guys use up there? When I shot up there and saw the match results posted in the trailer, it seems I only remember like one or two 308s in the top 10.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm ranting, but its almost as though you have to have a match where its 308 only, or else open to everything. Guys with 308's will complain that it wasn't skill that beat them but caliber. I'm sure that gets old to the match directors in a hurry.:D

Either way we have it, lets just make it a fun event with no *****ing and lots of learning and betting on shots to see who buys dinner.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 8:06 AM
Negative. We will have 50% 308win and 50% open. Done deal on that.

I honestly think Twolf should shoot.....the other 9 team members should be humping targets and help run the match so that he has the chance to pull the trigger.



Sounds good. I hope we get enough shooters with something other than 308's.

I agree on twolf shooting. If the cof is known to everyone beforehand, it would take a little burden off of him and he could shoot.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 8:19 AM
Can you believe 30-06 did better at the cup then 308s...... 7wsm is king.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 8:41 AM
Can you believe 30-06 did better at the cup then 308s...... 7wsm is king.

Are you going to have the 7 done by this summers big matches? That should be a winner.

Timberwolf
01-29-2008, 9:28 AM
Negative. We will have 50% 308win and 50% open. Done deal on that.

I honestly think Twolf should shoot.....the other 9 team members should be humping targets and help run the match so that he has the chance to pull the trigger.

In the next few months him and I will work out the COF.

Are there hotels next to APS? If so, how far out?

Is it possible for our team from up north to show up on Friday to zero and gather dope? I think the only one that has shot at APS is Marc Soulie from up here.

There are hotels within 1/2 hour or so drive of the range either direction - toward the south there are hotels in Santa Clarita - only thing about Santa Clarita is that is were Magic Mtn is and hotel prices may reflact that. To the north is the Antelope Valley (home of Edwards AFB) - Palmdale being the closest city. Rooms there avg between 45.00 on up. I live in Palmdale and the drive is not bad to the range, just rural.

I normally work at APS the Friday before any match (that's my set up day) so coming in and getting your dope and zero. Also you can get it Sat morning.

As far as my shooting, I think I'll have enough on my plate making sure all runs smooth etc. etc. Besides I would have an unfair advantage in that every course of fire I run at APS is tested and retested by me. Hell most of them were borne of Bob (my fellow RO and shooting partner) and I getting bored and betting the other can't make such and such shot. To me the 860 buff is boring and the maiden is only mildly enticing and I'm not even a good shot. So even if I didn't have the headaches of running the match I would still respectfully decline.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 9:31 AM
Are you going to have the 7 done by this summers big matches? That should be a winner.

Barrel is on order. If Rock can get it done in 12 weeks, I should have it done in the future. I got an GAT coming from Tom in trade for the T2. I am just waiting on the barrel. Im selling my race 250R quad to get everything done.I dont use it anyway. I also got the 2.0 order. Its a fair price I paid, same as tacpro with 1 mag and cheek screws shipped.


Ill run your match. Might have to move more the 10 feets, we start with an quarter mile run full pack and gear. Just to get warmed up!

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 9:32 AM
Negative. We will have 50% 308win and 50% open. Done deal on that.

I honestly think Twolf should shoot.....the other 9 team members should be humping targets and help run the match so that he has the chance to pull the trigger.

In the next few months him and I will work out the COF.

Are there hotels next to APS? If so, how far out?

Is it possible for our team from up north to show up on Friday to zero and gather dope? I think the only one that has shot at APS is Marc Soulie from up here.


agreed, i think twolf should be shooting too.

lots of hotels along the old road. only 15 minutes from the range.

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 9:37 AM
all good. i will take full credit for my shooting. my rifle has nothing to do with it. :)

side note, how much more recoil do you think i will have with hot loads, 46grains of varget then 42.5grains of rl15?

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 9:48 AM
Doesnt matter Pete you have a brake. I shoot 48grs of varget with 155s now thats hott with 2 t's!

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 9:50 AM
i have a fast barrel. i don't think i need to go that hot.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 9:53 AM
Ya, I shoot 61grs of 22 out of my 30-06 no problems at all with 190s or 210 at that load. I would work up to were your rifle shoots good.

Im shooting 46 with 168s out of my salaged savage.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 9:53 AM
Hey Pete-just get started with the scenars and push 'em 2925 or so. It doesn't lose much to a 260 within 900 yards.

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 9:55 AM
how many grains are you currently using in your savage? your barrel should be of similar speed to mine.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 9:56 AM
Anyone want to order some? I need some! I wonder if we can get a discount if we order like 10,000 + to one person?

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 9:57 AM
Im gona get series and start again and try 45-48.5 again. Im an velocity whore. My rifles like it hard and hot. I shoot moly threw that and it works the best!

rksimple
01-29-2008, 9:58 AM
I'm using 44.8 in military brass getting 2840. You're barrel should be faster than my factory tube. When Randy's done with my rifle, I'll probably switch to 46.0 of varget in win cases. I want to end up around 2900.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 9:58 AM
I wonder what kind of data I can get get pushing 168gr VLDS .515bc at 2750? OHHHH YA i only shoot win brass and hornday gold medal match brass from the canadians.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 9:58 AM
Anyone want to order some? I need some! I wonder if we can get a discount if we order like 10,000 + to one person?

Are you talking scenars? I'm up for another 3k or so.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 9:59 AM
I wonder what kind of data I can get get pushing 168gr VLDS .515bc at 2750?

A 155 scenar at 2900 would beat it.

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 10:00 AM
cool. i just never stuffed that much powder in a .308 case b4. sounds like it's so much. need to trim up those black hills brass i got from jason.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 10:01 AM
Allright relaxe! Im talking to Adam whos got hookups for me. I got the 2.0 and now Im just gona go out shooting. Im prolly gona get the 3.5-15x 50mm NPR1 NF for my rifle.

Prc329
01-29-2008, 10:02 AM
My old Savage load was 45.5s of 4895 and my remmy load is 46.5 of RL15 and it is running 2950 or so in both loads. My barrel is slower then yours as well as shorter. My 45.5 4895 load is running slow at 2750 or so. Gotta get that one dialed in but I may just wait till I get the new barrel.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 10:02 AM
A 155 scenar at 2900 would beat it.

Dunno man BC work on my favor. Who knows how fast im shooting these thow. I need someone to put an brake on for me. Who can I have do it for cheap? This is a budget rifle.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 10:05 AM
Dunno man BC work on my favor. Who knows how fast im shooting these thow. I need someone to put an brake on for me. Who can I have do it for cheap? This is a budget rifle.

BC on the scenar is .508. You'd have to push the 168's at almost the same velocity as the 155s to match it.

Prc329
01-29-2008, 10:05 AM
Randall. He did 3 of my rifles and did a good job as well as Wildcard's.

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 10:07 AM
I need someone to put an brake on for me. Who can I have do it for cheap? This is a budget rifle.

I got you covered.
Ask Nayt about his DPMS brake.
It's pretty cheap if you are on a budget.
I have them in stock.

Yank the barrel off the action, but make a top index mark first.
$60 to thread, crown and index for the brake.
I think the brake is $60
I can do it while-you-wait.

Prc329
01-29-2008, 10:08 AM
Its a good brake. Reduces recoil rather effectively. Loud and throws stuff like crazy but thats the fun part :)

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 10:09 AM
I got you covered.
Ask Nayt about his DPMS brake.
It's pretty cheap if you are on a budget.
I have them in stock.

Yank the barrel off the action, but make a top index mark first.
$60 to thread, crown and index for the brake.
I can do it while-you-wait.

Your not gona do anything tricky right? What about the badger thruster?

Off to work to make the $$$!

rksimple
01-29-2008, 10:10 AM
I got you covered.
Ask Nayt about his DPMS brake.
It's pretty cheap if you are on a budget.
I have them in stock.

Yank the barrel off the action, but make a top index mark first.
$60 to thread, crown and index for the brake.
I can do it while-you-wait.

How effective is that DPMS brake? I may have you put one on another rifle.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 10:11 AM
Its a good brake. Reduces recoil rather effectively. Loud and throws stuff like crazy but thats the fun part :)

I remember being next to yours a couple matches ago. It wasn't a huge blast but rather a "wind" that went by everyone within 20 feet...and caused us to miss our targets...

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 10:14 AM
badger thruster brake works well. best working brake i felt is jason's brake. looks like a battering ram, but it sure does work well.

chickenfried
01-29-2008, 10:20 AM
But if you really believed that, you wouldn't care what everyone else was shooting:p.


it's the indian, not the bow right?

wildcard
01-29-2008, 10:24 AM
I remember being next to yours a couple matches ago. It wasn't a huge blast but rather a "wind" that went by everyone within 20 feet...and caused us to miss our targets...

How do you think I felt? I was next to him during the off-hand and kneeling/ sitting segment..

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 10:28 AM
But if you really believed that, you wouldn't care what everyone else was shooting:p.

your right. i believe it to a certain extent, but not totally. given two indians with the same skill level (including mental confidence), i believe the equipment should be the final factor in determining the winner.

it's just so funny, how people twist this around so easily. everyone has their own version and variation of the idea.

but hey, i noticed much more accuracy out of my new found skill (my new r+d rifle has nothing to do with it) it's just a coincidence that it was the same time since i got my r+d rifle. :)

Prc329
01-29-2008, 10:29 AM
I think the badger FTE brake is the best brake out there as an all around brake. Very good a controlling muzzle lift and recoil. The eliminator on wildcards rifle is just insane. Shooting that 308 felt like a 223.

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 11:23 AM
What about the badger thruster?

The DPMS 308 Miculek is almost identical to the Badger thruster.
3 flat ports.

I can tweak it for more upward bias if you feel you need it.

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 11:24 AM
How effective is that DPMS brake? I may have you put one on another rifle.

Nayt has the most experience here actually shooting with one.
I have never used them on my personal guns, but I have installed a bunch of them and everyone has been happy.

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 11:27 AM
All you guys complaining about muzzle blast should have been at the 2nd day of Bill's class when he has us buddy shooting.
Stand still while a guy slings an 8mm Magnum with a Badger FTE brake over your shoulder and fires it while you spot.
That puts the muzzle about 12" forward of your face.

Not THAT is some muzzle blast! ;)

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 11:34 AM
All you guys complaining about muzzle blast should have been at the 2nd day of Bill's class when he has us buddy shooting.
Stand still while a guy slings an 8mm Magnum with a Badger FTE brake over your shoulder and fires it while you spot.
That puts the muzzle about 12" forward of your face.

Not THAT is some muzzle blast! ;)

that's more like a muzzle slap!

wildcard
01-29-2008, 11:37 AM
I'd probably be more worried about that 8mm pencil barrel whipping you in the face :)

Vu 308
01-29-2008, 12:38 PM
I hate to disagree with you guys, but custom rifles and slippery little 6mm's and 6.5's do offer quite an advantage over say stock 308's. If they didn't why would people use them? If its shooter skill we're trying to evaluate, the custom rifle and flatter caliber gives an advantage, and its not all shooter skill thats involved. I could post all day about how I "cleaned customs with my stock POS $1K Savage here, (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=328614#Post328614)" but that doesn't mean that rifle is as capable as a high end custom. Having a stock toploader that can be competitive is really dependent upon the course of fire. I've found that out the hard way.

Now I'm not complaining by any means, but to say its all the shooter is a little naive. I'm more of a "run what you brung" kind of guy, but what ever everyone wants to do is great. If I lose to someone with a 243 or 6.5-284, big deal. Maybe I should switch if I want to stay competitive, right? On the other hand, a 30cal only match will eliminate some of the equipment advantages. Like Bill said, the SH cup is 308 only with factory ammo provided. Seems they're eliminating that from the equation.

Vu, what calibers do the top 10 guys use up there? When I shot up there and saw the match results posted in the trailer, it seems I only remember like one or two 308s in the top 10.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm ranting, but its almost as though you have to have a match where its 308 only, or else open to everything. Guys with 308's will complain that it wasn't skill that beat them but caliber. I'm sure that gets old to the match directors in a hurry.:D

Either way we have it, lets just make it a fun event with no *****ing and lots of learning and betting on shots to see who buys dinner.

RK,

Dennis Lorenzo ran a bone stock 5R 308 with 175s and came in 2nd OVER ALL for the entire year vs every hot rod out there. Keep in mind this is his 2nd season behind a bolt rifle.

Dave Davis bone stock PSS 308 came in 5th over all.

Ed Mobley I believe was 4th over all.

From 1st to 15th for the entire year....7 of them were 308 for our matches up here.

Last year Dave Mcgrath won NorCal TBRC with his 308.

Listen men....this is a team event. Meaning it don't mean JACK SH*T who beats who as long as your team does well as a team.

50% 308 50% open.

Now if someone *****es and moans from either team...gee well I guess their 308 guys should of done better...or their hot rod guys should of done better.

I think some of you guys shot with Marc Soulie last year some time, if I recall he did very well with his 308 on a range he never shot at before.

Considering most of Twolf targets will most likely be withing 600 yards there is no real advantage in my opinion. Now if he was doing 35% of his stuff 800yards + I can see where a 308 would fall short.

Either way details are being worked out still. Stay tuned.

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 12:50 PM
i don't care anymore what people shoot.

i'm happy with my rifle, and that's all it matters to me.

ryan, just finish your rifle asap, and slap some nice glass on it. that r+d will be real good to you. you've outshot customs with your savage. you'll be even better with your custom. no more excuses. it's all about the shooter now.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 12:59 PM
RK,

Dennis Lorenzo ran a bone stock 5R 308 with 175s and came in 2nd OVER ALL for the entire year vs every hot rod out there. Keep in mind this is his 2nd season behind a bolt rifle.

Dave Davis bone stock PSS 308 came in 5th over all.

Ed Mobley I believe was 4th over all.

From 1st to 15th for the entire year....7 of them were 308 for our matches up here.

Last year Dave Mcgrath won NorCal TBRC with his 308.

Listen men....this is a team event. Meaning it don't mean JACK SH*T who beats who as long as your team does well as a team.

50% 308 50% open.

Now if someone *****es and moans from either team...gee well I guess their 308 guys should of done better...or their hot rod guys should of done better.

I think some of you guys shot with Marc Soulie last year some time, if I recall he did very well with his 308 on a range he never shot at before.

Considering most of Twolf targets will most likely be withing 600 yards there is no real advantage in my opinion. Now if he was doing 35% of his stuff 800yards + I can see where a 308 would fall short.

Either way details are being worked out still. Stay tuned.

Thats good to hear. When Marc came down for that match he was using a 260. Said his other rifle was being worked on or something. That doesn't mean anything though as he is a kick a** shooter and could have done just as well with a 308. You raise a good point though about the distances involved. I'd worry more about the caliber advantage on the 1000 yard range up there. I don't really care, though. Run whatcha brung. If I could afford to rebarrel every 2000 rounds, I'd be shooting a 243 in an instant. But I can't. I have to either overcome the difference or suffer with the consequences. No big deal.

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 1:01 PM
when i used to have a 4 cylinder, i out ran v-8s. it's all a matter of fine tuning what you have to work with. i used to love taking that money from them in the end. :)

sometimes you just got to "squeeze" the performance out of what you have. run them 155 scenars real hot. the r+d will have no problem stabalizing them, and keep them going straight. remember we are running a match palma chamber designed for 155grainers.

we'll be the "david" slinging them rocks off our sling.

heck, pasqual shoots crappy 168s out to 1k in his r+d and kicks ***. he does piss people off, but in a awesome way by just beating them with inferior ballistics.

Jicko
01-29-2008, 1:18 PM
Guys, we should start another thread regarding SoCal guys' rifles..... rather than hijacking this "North vs South Match" thread.

:chris:

wildcard
01-29-2008, 1:21 PM
Guys, we should start another thread regarding SoCal guys' rifles..... rather than hijacking this "North vs South Match" thread.

:chris:

Didn't you know? No thread in this sub-forum stays on topic for more than 20 posts..

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 1:21 PM
pretty sunny today isn't it?

Vu 308
01-29-2008, 1:32 PM
LOL...you guys kill me.

RK...you're right. It was his 260 HP gun with a scope.

Marc is one hell of a shot when he doesn't bounce his rifle off the deck.

I wouldn't worry too much about caliber even on our 1K range. If you look at the % of our shots over 800yards it is a very small percent vs the 200 to 600yard line.

However this year we are shooting a lot more from 800+ just to improve shooters and skill sets at 800 out to 1K.

Once Twolf finalizes a date with the range we'll work out rules and regs.

Vu

wildcard
01-29-2008, 1:35 PM
LOL...you guys kill me.


You bet we (SoCal) will :43:

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 1:43 PM
north vs south is more of a pride match than anything else.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 2:09 PM
You bet we (SoCal) will :43:

And the trash-talk begins...

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 2:11 PM
we do have home advantage. let them shoot their space guns.

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 2:23 PM
pretty sunny today isn't it?

Yes indeed.

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/magna.jpg

Thank goodness the rain is gone for a few hours.

Vu 308
01-29-2008, 3:49 PM
we do have home advantage. let them shoot their space guns.



Ahhh yes...the friendly trash talking has started. I probably won't do too much..just usually let my shooting do the talking.

Home court advantage? Sure...

Space guns...well lets just say us bumpkins from up north dont have brakes on our 308s. :D I guess when you hold hard you can watch impact just fine without one.

+ Most of us up here never even seen a 243 tac rifle until we started traveling south. LOL


I think the good friendly competition is great and can't wait to shoot with you guys down south.

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 4:04 PM
yep should be fine match. a bbq afterward would be nice too.

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 4:15 PM
So is this to be at APS, or at Tehachapi?

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 4:16 PM
home court advantage, APS.

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 4:18 PM
home court advantage, APS.

But why NOT out in the BLM land?
The motorcycles?

PistolPete75
01-29-2008, 4:19 PM
1 more question? are there going to be any team spotters or are there no spotting allowed?

SecondAmendmentgirl
01-29-2008, 4:30 PM
Not up here, feels like Portland, Oregon this month.

Yes indeed.

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/magna.jpg

Thank goodness the rain is gone for a few hours.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 4:35 PM
But why NOT out in the BLM land?
The motorcycles?

I don't know. We could have an AWESOME cof out at the BLM land. Angle firing, UKD, stalks, etc. It would be nice. We also have the option of that land around my FIL's mining claim. No bikes out there.

Timberwolf
01-29-2008, 4:37 PM
Now you NorCal guys need to realize we kinda rural at APS . . . no grassy firing lines, no consessions, no air conditioned club house, no running water or flush toilets . . . and when you shoot it generally takes a minute or two for the dust to clear enough to shoot again . . . but I'm sure y'all will do fine . . .

Timberwolf
01-29-2008, 4:41 PM
I don't know. We could have an AWESOME cof out at the BLM land. Angle firing, UKD, stalks, etc. It would be nice. We also have the option of that land around my FIL's mining claim. No bikes out there.

We'll have all that - we have some more area to use at APS that we're just now developing plus we'll have use of the whole range so we can explore more hills, creeks, hollows - don't worry no one will get bored - plus we can all jog the buffs hill to get the cardio going before shooting . . . .

rksimple
01-29-2008, 4:44 PM
We'll have all that - we have some more area to use at APS that we're just now developing plus we'll have use of the whole range so we can explore more hills, creeks, hollows - don't worry no one will get bored - plus we can all jog the buffs hill to get the cardio going before shooting . . . .

Thats good to hear. Expanding the place a little should make it interesting.

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 5:02 PM
Now you NorCal guys need to realize we kinda rural at APS . . .

No Chinese Buffet either. ;)

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 5:03 PM
we'll have use of the whole range

Good news. :)

we can all jog the buffs hill to get the cardio going before shooting

No thanks.

wildcard
01-29-2008, 5:04 PM
Ahhh yes...the friendly trash talking has started. I probably won't do too much..just usually let my shooting do the talking.


guess i'll get my first taste this weekend. how many from norcal are coming down from vegas?

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 7:25 PM
Good news. :)



No thanks.

A little running never hurt anyone before!

rksimple
01-29-2008, 7:26 PM
A little running never hurt anyone before!

Actually, it gives some people a myocardial infarction...thats bad.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 7:29 PM
Actually, it gives some people a myocardial infarction...thats bad.

Lol you kidding me, a "heart attack" grow a pair. Im at the point i cant look atmyself in the merrior anymore, what do i do..... GYM GYM GYM again and again. Its a good thing to do some cardio.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 7:31 PM
Lol you kidding me, a "heart attack" grow a pair. Im at the point i cant look atmyself in the merrior anymore, what do i do..... GYM GYM GYM again and again. Its a good thing to do some cardio.

Some people...not necessarily me...but it has happened to some...anyway, a little cardio before a shot might make it a bit more interesting...

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 7:33 PM
Exaclty. You wana do some shooting soon? Lapua had an 24% increase this year. Powder valley still is at a good price.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 7:36 PM
The rifle should be done after shot, but the scope may take another month. Everyone is out of the 5-25. If I have to, I'll put the Nikon on there in the interim.

I may get another couple thousand from powdervalley as prices are only going to go up. Let me know if you want to make an order on some bullets, powder or primers.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 7:37 PM
HELL YES! I need atleast 1k of them.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 7:40 PM
Any powder? I'm thinking of getting 10 pounds of RL15 to try out. The high ES I'm getting from this last batch of Varget sucks.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 7:50 PM
They have 210s in stock. What about wolfs?
I can use Rl22 5 more pounds.

Vu 308
01-29-2008, 7:54 PM
Now you NorCal guys need to realize we kinda rural at APS . . . no grassy firing lines, no consessions, no air conditioned club house, no running water or flush toilets . . . and when you shoot it generally takes a minute or two for the dust to clear enough to shoot again . . . but I'm sure y'all will do fine . . .


I sure you guys have a Starbucks right next to the entrance though or else our lil friend Desert Frog wouldn't be shooting there.

The air condition you feel up here is this thing you all might of heard of ..."wind".

As for spotters...you can have em. I think your team should be able to help you in any way possible other than shooting the stage or your target for you. Twolf and I will work out the details.

I am out numbered and out gunned....must seek help. :chris:

Vu 308
01-29-2008, 7:58 PM
No Chinese Buffet either. ;)


WTF!? What kind of operation are you guys running down there.


Twolf......I just picked up a 4'x8' sheet of 1/2" AR500 plate. We'll have plenty of steel after I get it cut up. A local shooter has a water jet cutter he is going to use.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 7:58 PM
They have 210s in stock. What about wolfs?
I can use Rl22 5 more pounds.

OK. I'll work up an order. I have a few k of the Wolf LR primers that I haven't tried yet. They seem to be getting good reviews.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 8:02 PM
Allright I got my 2.0 getting shipped to me today. It was expensive! Im thinking I should of gone with 1.5 instead. But f- IT.

rksimple
01-29-2008, 8:04 PM
Allright I got my 2.0 getting shipped to me today. It was expensive! Im thinking I should of gone with 1.5 instead. But f- IT.

I got the 1.5 and wish I got the 2.0. You made the right choice.

Prc329
01-29-2008, 8:05 PM
I got the 1.5 and wish I got the 2.0. You made the right choice.

2.0 would come in handy for cleaning. No need to remove the check piece.

Cypriss32
01-29-2008, 8:08 PM
I got 2 mags, Im gona have Randy open lug area and convert to 30-06 feeding. It will hold 7 rounds.

ar15barrels
01-29-2008, 10:20 PM
Some people...not necessarily me...but it has happened to some...anyway, a little cardio before a shot might make it a bit more interesting...

It does.
We do it in 3gun all the time.
Run 100yds up a canyon.
When you reach the firing point, engage 5 targets as you see them.

There's a fine balance between all-out sprinting to get there fast, but not being able to hold as steady and a swift jog that gets you there a few seconds slower, but allows you to hit faster.
Each person usually finds this out AFTER they do it.

Timberwolf
02-10-2008, 8:01 PM
**UPDATE**

I have gotten approval to host this match at A Place to Shoot in Saugus, CA.

It is scheduled for Sept 27 and 28, 2008.

It will be an evening / night shoot on the 27th followed by a morning shoot on the 28th.

There will be 10 competitors for each team. Vu will be heading up the NoCal team and I'll be heading up the SoCal team.

The match will for bolt guns, with a 30 cal limit, and a 3100 fps limit. Mags are allowed, however there will be mandatory reloads for all stages involving more than 5 rounds. A minimal of 5 of the 10 shooters for each team must be using a .308. Brakes will be allowed, however, if you are using a brake you must also use a blast pad when applicable (mainly shooting in a group in prone).

I will be posting an official notice regarding this within the next few weeks once I iron out a few more of the details. In the interim since this is limited to 10 shooters per team I would suggest that interested shooters notify their respective team captains of their interest.

wildcard
02-10-2008, 9:38 PM
I am notifying the southern team captain of my interest to help bring the hurt to the northern team. I'll represent with my stock 700P .308 :chris:

PistolPete75
02-10-2008, 9:45 PM
i'm definitely interested.

rksimple
02-10-2008, 10:20 PM
I'm interested.

Timberwolf
02-11-2008, 3:57 PM
Secondary update - Vu and I have decided to make each team a even dozen - therefore each team will consist of 12 members, divided into 2 six man squads which will be subdivided into 3 two man teams. The shoot off / match will be a dukes mixture with a couple of individual stages, a couple of spotter / shooter stages and the rest shot in squads.

rksimple
02-11-2008, 5:00 PM
Sounds good. Look forward to some of the team stages.

wildcard
02-11-2008, 5:02 PM
Yup yup.. time to start training up in that capacity.

Vu 308
03-31-2008, 4:28 PM
Yo Twolf,

What kind access will we have to the range that Friday?

Thanks,

Vu

NRAhighpowershooter
03-31-2008, 5:15 PM
ok.. I seem to be a little dense right now.. what is the course of fire? Distances? Targets or plates or both? Minmum caliber?

Timberwolf
03-31-2008, 5:20 PM
Yo Twolf,

What kind access will we have to the range that Friday?

Thanks,

Vu

The range will be open to the public 8 - 7 on Friday and on Sat 8 - 4ish. For those that are signed up for the match there will be no range fees just check in. I should be there the Friday before the match if not I'll leave a list with the office.

Timberwolf
03-31-2008, 5:22 PM
ok.. I seem to be a little dense right now.. what is the course of fire? Distances? Targets or plates or both? Minmum caliber?

The COF is of a yet undisclosed nature - however for the right $ (just kidding - kinda) - distances will be from 50 to 900, it will be a mixture of paper, reactive and steel targets, 223 would be minimal caliber (3100 fps max)

Vu 308
03-31-2008, 5:32 PM
Bill,

Will we be able to gather dope out to 865 of however far that maiden or donkey you guys spank all the time?

Basically will we get to gather dope at different distances. I dont mind if I have to bring some steel and target stuff to do so.

Me and the boys need to know what to expect.

Timberwolf
03-31-2008, 5:54 PM
Bill,

Will we be able to gather dope out to 865 of however far that maiden or donkey you guys spank all the time?

Basically will we get to gather dope at different distances. I dont mind if I have to bring some steel and target stuff to do so.

Me and the boys need to know what to expect.

Short answer is for dope gathering past what the HP range is (400 yards) during normal business hours will require doing it during off hours. For me to get beyond the 400 yard mark (max at HP range) I have to shoot over various other parts of the range. Alot will depend on how busy we are on Friday, though since its during hunting season I imagine we will be steady all day. I can arrange to do the 865 stuff early Sat morning between 7 and 8. I would suggest getting your dope solid 100 - 900 up there and keep notes of any differences between there and WEGC. Then down here adjust zeroes on paper at 100 at APS on Friday if you want, verify it on steel at 200 and 400 as well then come in early Sat and hit the buff at 865. You'll find that as far as elevation etc we are pretty similar to WEGC. We are at 1800 ASL.

Timberwolf
03-31-2008, 5:58 PM
Also as a secondary thought during normal business hours Friday you can check your dope at 100 yard increments at ASR - they normally have paper at 100 and 200 and steel out to 700. Hate to send you to a competing range but . . .

Cypriss32
03-31-2008, 6:00 PM
I hate ASR......... I hope it burns down!

Timberwolf
03-31-2008, 6:05 PM
ASR has its benfits - what I wouldn't give for the set up they have - geeze could I run a helluva match

rksimple
03-31-2008, 6:06 PM
Me and the boys need to know what to expect.

Defeat.



Sorry, I couldn't resist.:D

ar15barrels
03-31-2008, 6:13 PM
Defeat.

Wise men do their boasting after the results are in.

wildcard
03-31-2008, 6:35 PM
Wise men do their boasting after the results are in.

Na. If you do it before hand, it's all in good fun.

If you do it afterwards, it's rather insulting and can be considered bad sportsmanship.

And if you do it after you get your butt handed to you, then you're just stupid :)

rksimple
03-31-2008, 6:35 PM
Wise men do their boasting after the results are in.

Have you not been paying attention to the multiple threads where this has been discussed? Are you feeling alright? The trash talk started quite a while ago.

Cypriss32
03-31-2008, 7:13 PM
I cant believe you have not showed up to APS when I was thier? Just wondering any reasons other then bad ones?

biscuitninja
03-31-2008, 8:23 PM
Is the match full? I'd like to run the custom Mosin for fun. I'm afraid that the rounds are a tad bit more powerful though.
-bix

Vu 308
03-31-2008, 8:56 PM
Defeat.



Sorry, I couldn't resist.:D


LOL...wishful thinking is always a good thing. I really hope you guys do beat us....because if you don't its GAME ON for a whole year. Then you gotta come to our country club to beat us.

Vu 308
03-31-2008, 8:57 PM
Can someone provide details on ASR?

What is their AO like? ASL?

Prc329
03-31-2008, 9:44 PM
www.angelesranges.com

Paper to 200, steel to 600. A rock at around 900.

Timberwolf
03-31-2008, 10:17 PM
Can someone provide details on ASR?

What is their AO like? ASL?

Its more like your range with set ditances out to 600 or 700 and a nice pad to shoot off of (I wouldn't want y'all to get your rifles dirty before I have a chance to LOL). Its not that far from Santa Clarita, by LA standards anyway. Once you get your dope then your can come out to the country and visit me at APS.

Hell if you're going to do it on the Friday before I may just meet you over there - buy mums the word.

Timberwolf
03-31-2008, 10:23 PM
LOL...wishful thinking is always a good thing. I really hope you guys do beat us....because if you don't its GAME ON for a whole year. Then you gotta come to our country club to beat us.

I predict a tie and you and I haveing a shoot off on the infamous duelling tree at 100 or 200 - wouldn't that be a hoot - I know your space gun shoots flatter than my ol' Savannah but just how fast can you work the bolt on the new build while in the dirt on a target?

Prc329
03-31-2008, 10:23 PM
If you go get as close to the clay throwers as you can. Best view of all the steel.

Timberwolf
03-31-2008, 10:34 PM
Is the match full? I'd like to run the custom Mosin for fun. I'm afraid that the rounds are a tad bit more powerful though.
-bix

If you're Nor Cal talk to Vu at Sac Valley - in So Cal come to a couple of my matches and we'll see how your custom Mosin stands up to the pack - but beware I check 7.62X54R bullets as a rule.

wildcard
03-31-2008, 10:35 PM
www.angelesranges.com

Paper to 200, steel to 600. A rock at around 900.

Actually, get out your laser and start picking out targets (rocks) up to 1200 if you want :)

Vu 308
03-31-2008, 10:53 PM
I predict a tie and you and I haveing a shoot off on the infamous duelling tree at 100 or 200 - wouldn't that be a hoot - I know your space gun shoots flatter than my ol' Savannah but just how fast can you work the bolt on the new build while in the dirt on a target?

Speaking of dueling trees.

I just got word today we got what we have requested from MGM targets.

two...6 plate dueling trees. Can't wait to watch guys battle it out.

Our Man vs Man stage is one of the big high lights.

Timberwolf
03-31-2008, 10:58 PM
Speaking of dueling trees.

I just got word today we got what we have requested from MGM targets.

two...6 plate dueling trees. Can't wait to watch guys battle it out.

Our Man vs Man stage is one of the big high lights.

I'd like to see one of MGMs - it has to beat their competitors hands down - I was going to get one of the others but from what I read I was afraid it wouldn't stand up to a match.

Vu 308
03-31-2008, 10:59 PM
Dirt...LOL..nice green lawn you guys shoot off.

Vu 308
03-31-2008, 11:01 PM
I'd like to see one of MGMs - it has to beat their competitors hands down - I was going to get one of the others but from what I read I was afraid it wouldn't stand up to a match.

The MGMs are bomber. Mike Gibson loves to over build things and the dueling trees are made for rifle and fully armored.

Cost 940.00 per not including shipping.

Vu

wildcard
03-31-2008, 11:14 PM
Out of curiosity what would the COF for a dueling tree consist of for a precision rifle match? I've used them for handguns (get all the plates to the other side first or the person with the least plates on their side wins).. but never rifles.

Vu 308
03-31-2008, 11:18 PM
=) for us to know and you guys to find out.

wildcard
03-31-2008, 11:21 PM
=) for us to know and you guys to find out.

Ahh.. so it's something new you're starting? I was thinking it may have been done before somewhere and there's some sort of foundation.

ar15barrels
04-01-2008, 12:18 AM
All I have to say is Texas Star. ;)

Vu 308
04-01-2008, 8:23 AM
Jason,

We did a man vs man stage last year...we always have those during our matches to give people heads up competition.

The two new target systems just add a new level of spice to things thats all.

I have seen the Texas star...nice but sucks for the people that have to run down a few hundred yards to reset the targets.

Vu

ar15barrels
04-01-2008, 8:59 AM
I have seen the Texas star...nice but sucks for the people that have to run down a few hundred yards to reset the targets.

I guarantee you that it's challenging enough at 50yds.
Especially with a bolt gun. ;)

Timberwolf
04-01-2008, 9:30 AM
I guarantee you that it's challenging enough at 50yds.
Especially with a bolt gun. ;)

With the size of those plates and at 50 yards . . . doubtful

ar15barrels
04-01-2008, 10:03 AM
With the size of those plates and at 50 yards . . . doubtful

Par time. ;)

Vu 308
04-01-2008, 11:47 AM
All of COFs are par..we dont do the IPSC time scoring.

Timberwolf
04-01-2008, 12:19 PM
All of COFs are par..we dont do the IPSC time scoring.

Makes scoring so mush easier, especially for us that are limited due to our match skills to using fingers and toes.

grandslam
08-06-2008, 5:31 PM
So are there any updates on the match??? I know that T-wolf got a little upset after several of us from the north questioned where the funds were going. I'm just curious about the status of the match and wondering whats going on. I didnt want to post in Ryans thread, it has been hijacked enough already.

rksimple
08-06-2008, 5:47 PM
I know I'm ready to go for it. Bill-if you need any help setting up or clearing stuff let me know. I have fridays off and can make it down there in an hour or so.

Cypriss32
08-06-2008, 5:54 PM
I allready offered to come out friday and saterday and set up with Bill. I live down the street. I got some steel for the match too.


Whoever needs to crash, big sleeping bags and I have a big house.