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View Full Version : businessman faces two years in jail for unregistered ammunition, brass cassings


morfeeis
10-23-2013, 3:36 PM
His 16-year-old son was in the shower when the police arrived. “They used a battering ram to bash down the bathroom door and pull him out of the shower, naked,” said his father. “The police put all the children together in a room, while we were handcuffed upstairs. I could hear them crying, not knowing what was happening.”

The police found no guns in the house, but did write on the warrant that four items were discovered: “One live round of 12-gauge shotgun ammunition,” which was an inoperable shell that misfired during a hunt years earlier. Mr. Witaschek had kept it as a souvenir. “One handgun holster” was found, which is perfectly legal.
“One expended round of .270 caliber ammunition,” which was a spent brass casing. The police uncovered “one box of Knight bullets for reloading.” These are actually not for reloading, but are used in antique-replica, single-shot, muzzle-loading rifles.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/

tkHTffZBnCA

I love that they have the quote in there from the DA about not charging over a 30 round magazine on TV because it would do nothing to promote public safety, but they are going hog wild on this poor guy....

Packy14
10-23-2013, 3:48 PM
stupid.

his ex-wife set him up. *****.

ramathorn
10-23-2013, 3:55 PM
Wow, 30 officers in full gear. I hope they're ashamed of themselves. Fear mongering and wasting funding....

SWalt
10-23-2013, 3:59 PM
Great find. Just shows how bad draconian government is.

SWalt
10-23-2013, 4:01 PM
Wow, 30 officers in full gear. I hope they're ashamed of themselves. Fear mongering and wasting funding....

Not only that...

The police shut down the streets for blocks and spent more than two hours going over every inch of his house

Over a misfired shotgun shell and a spent casing. Cleaning supplies, obvious threat to the population as a whole.

sd_shooter
10-23-2013, 4:21 PM
http://d1ovi2g6vebctw.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a91d0029970b-600wi.jpeg

cr250chevy
10-23-2013, 4:23 PM
Not only that...



Over a misfired shotgun shell and a spent casing. Cleaning supplies, obvious threat to the population as a whole.

Regardless of what they found or what happened, without knowing the details of the initial information they had to act upon; their actions could have been reasonable. For all we know they had "reliable" information that this guy was an illegal arms amd drug dealer.
I highly doubt they wanted to raid his house for two spent casings and some bullets...

Another SCOTUS case? :)

five.five-six
10-23-2013, 4:27 PM
Jackbooted thuggery.

Epaphroditus
10-23-2013, 4:49 PM
And I though we had it rough in CA! Turns out all those paranoid "gut nuts" were right after all ...

morfeeis
10-23-2013, 4:58 PM
Regardless of what they found or what happened, without knowing the details of the initial information they had to act upon; their actions could have been reasonable. For all we know they had "reliable" information that this guy was an illegal arms amd drug dealer.
I highly doubt they wanted to raid his house for two spent casings and some bullets...

Another SCOTUS case? :)
es-wife reports that were later found to be unfounded, but even after that 30 thugs broke into his home.

mjmagee67
10-23-2013, 7:32 PM
I hope he has a good lawyer and the sues the poop out of DC.

EXTREMEOPS1
10-23-2013, 7:41 PM
What in damnation is "unregistered ammunition" ?

G17GUY
10-23-2013, 8:08 PM
What in damnation is "unregistered ammunition" ?

you don't register your ammo?

Vladimir
10-23-2013, 9:46 PM
So all it takes to get a warrant for a search is someone ( ex wife in this case ) to give a tip? Then it's gun ho? Wtf?

cr250chevy
10-23-2013, 10:31 PM
So all it takes to get a warrant for a search is someone ( ex wife in this case ) to give a tip? Then it's gun ho? Wtf?

I think I saw a specific representative (This is not a racist post :rolleyes:) with an illegal AW in his home. Can I make a report and have the police raid his house? :cool2:

Vladimir
10-23-2013, 10:35 PM
I think I saw a specific representative (This is not a racist post :rolleyes:) with an illegal AW in his home. Can I make a report and have the police raid his house? :cool2:

Done deal than?

Sputnik
10-23-2013, 11:19 PM
Sounds reasonable to Yee...I meant me.

dave_cg
10-23-2013, 11:43 PM
What in damnation is "unregistered ammunition" ?

In D.C., all firearms must be registered, and you may only posses ammo used by one of your registered firearms.

alex332
10-23-2013, 11:49 PM
The face of a new Amerika has been shown to us

We the people must not stand for this!

MontClaire
10-23-2013, 11:54 PM
It's like hearing again the old guy from the 90's gun show about this kind of thing coming in 10 years. I laughed at that time.
I am not laughing now.

alex332
10-24-2013, 12:08 AM
This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit” access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing to hide

After about an hour and a half, the police found one box of Winchester .40 caliber ammunition, one gun-cleaning kit (fully legal) and a Civil War-era Colt antique revolver that Mr. Witaschek kept on his office desk. The police seized the Colt even though antique firearms are legal and do not have to be registered


I know its been said before but never let a LEO/LEA into your home without a search warrant. Even if you feel you have "nothing to hide"

BobB35
10-24-2013, 6:15 AM
Yep, so let me get this right. When the government finally does come for the guns then the LEO/Mil is going to disobey orders and remember the constitution and not enforce those laws or orders.

Well keep dreaming. ANY LEO OR MIL that doesn't do what they are told will be tuned up quicker than snot by the same types as the 30 who did this raid. End of game. Believe what you want. We have story after story of LEO and MIL acting this way, yet not one where an LEO was fired for not following an order like this. Not one of the 30 said no. So maybe they need 31. That would put the refusal rate at about 3%. Guess what that won't work and those 3% will be the first swept aside.

Welcome to the Police state, brought to you by the two party system

Helpful_Cub
10-24-2013, 6:30 AM
I'm just surprised they didn't have a small fufu dog in the home and the cops didn't kill it with at least 50 rounds "for their own protection".

SPROCKET
10-24-2013, 6:31 AM
In D.C., all firearms must be registered, and you may only posses ammo used by one of your registered firearms.

Unless you are a Senator, the Police Chief, or liberal media figure.

jrock
10-24-2013, 8:18 AM
The blaze is running this story as well.
I'd say, unbelievable. ..but sadly, it is!

KABA556
10-24-2013, 8:41 AM
Regardless of what they found or what happened, without knowing the details of the initial information they had to act upon; their actions could have been reasonable. For all we know they had "reliable" information that this guy was an illegal arms amd drug dealer.
I highly doubt they wanted to raid his house for two spent casings and some bullets...

Another SCOTUS case? :)



It is never reasonable to burst into a man's home in such a fashion, with a platoon sized unit, and stick the barrels of automatic rifles into the faces of the occupants of the home.



If they have "reliable" information that the man is a drug dealer, they should attempt to do some undercover work, try to make a controlled buy, etc.

If the police were so concerned about their safety they felt the need to do an unannounced raid with 30 people, how did they know they were not rushing into a booby-trapped house with trip-wires?

Officer safety is just a slogan they shout to justify any heavy-handed brutal behavior on their part. If they were really concerned about officer safety they would have sent some undercover guy to approach the suspect, try to make a controlled buy, gain intelligence, possibly get into the house to reconnoiter and do a basic check for booby-traps, see if weapons were lying around ready to be used, etc.

KABA556
10-24-2013, 8:44 AM
I hope he has a good lawyer and the sues the poop out of DC.



DC doesn't care, why should DC care, it isn't their money. Not one single officer, sergeant, lieutenant, captain, or other police official will lose a penny over this. The city's insurance company will pay out, perhaps the insurance premiums will increase, and they'll just tax the citizens more to make up for it.

The judge who signed the bogus warrant won't be held to account.


Our Founding Fathers didn't sue the agents of the king when they were out in the countryside harassing people and trying to extract taxes, they tarred and feathered them.

A-J
10-24-2013, 9:02 AM
“One expended round of .270 caliber ammunition,”

How can any LEO who's been on the job more than 30 seconds call a shell casing and expended round of ammunition? The round is what went downrange, what's left over is a casing.

bubbapug1
10-24-2013, 11:19 AM
Regardless of what they found or what happened, without knowing the details of the initial information they had to act upon; their actions could have been reasonable. For all we know they had "reliable" information that this guy was an illegal arms amd drug dealer.
I highly doubt they wanted to raid his house for two spent casings and some bullets...

Another SCOTUS case? :)

Not true, they raided my house based on uncollaberated rantings from a fired employee...full large swat team and a helicopter overhead....

They found NOTHING but they screwed my dog up with a shock grenade.

We are in the beginning stages of what will eventually become a Stalinistic period in america for a long long time. A period of legal and physical terror based on hunches, vendettas, prejudices towards independent thought, guns rights, and overblown legal charges for nothing.

If Hillary wins are gun rights are in serious jepordy. The republiocans need to stear towards the center and muzzle the lunatics which are poisening the publics support for the party.

Vin63
10-24-2013, 11:42 AM
Unless you are a Senator, the Police Chief, or liberal media figure.

...or criminals. But, that could also include the three you mentioned. :D

Vladimir
10-24-2013, 5:50 PM
Not true, they raided my house based on uncollaberated rantings from a fired employee...full large swat team and a helicopter overhead....

They found NOTHING but they screwed my dog up with a shock grenade.

We are in the beginning stages of what will eventually become a Stalinistic period in america for a long long time. A period of legal and physical terror based on hunches, vendettas, prejudices towards independent thought, guns rights, and overblown legal charges for nothing.

If Hillary wins are gun rights are in serious jepordy. The republiocans need to stear towards the center and muzzle the lunatics which are poisening the publics support for the party.

they raided your house over what one person said? seems warrants are just a little obsticle now to get over, then your free to search anyones house you want.

SactoDoug
10-24-2013, 8:12 PM
It seems that law enforcement is just SWAT happy recently. Do they ever do an old fashioned search where they knock on a person's door, inform them of the search, then search the house wearing their regular uniform? Why does it seem like every search is now, kick down the door, throw everyone down and cuff them, shoot the dog and trash the place?

ja308
10-24-2013, 9:28 PM
The elites have put America on the path to the Balkans... The only way to avert it would be to bail on the two primary/national parties and rally to a genuine party of the people, devoted to the Constitution and the restoration of Constitutional government and the Rule of Law. That probably won't happen so it might be a good idea to prepare for war. Continue working for peace and possible political reform, but never stop preparing for war.


Are you implying that republican legislators passed these laws regarding spent cases ?
This raid occurred in an area that votes 99 to 100 % democratic.
We have a very clear choice and an opportunity to wrestle control away from the Rockefeller wing of the Republican Party and promote candidates that share a love of limited govt and American values by unifying with the GOP!

As for the story itself, one can imagine the story's told by the ex-wife about how this guy viewed law enforcement etc .

It's very disgusting that proffesional law enforecment agents in this case did not do any research!
I wonder if the ex-wife will be charged with making false statements ?
If not then one can conclude Leo s made up her story as a pretext for the brutality the article describes !

Patrick Aherne
10-24-2013, 9:57 PM
As a law enforcement officer, I think this is unmitigated BS. I disagree with the actions of the DC police. "Family Law" is modern-day witchcraft disguised as law and almost always favors the female party involved.

However, we do not know what the cops involved were told by the ex-wife. Unfortunately, if she lied like Goebbels, nothing will happen to her. Thanks, Family Court!

Interesting that the kids chose to live with Dad, probably because he's not crazy.

freonr22
10-24-2013, 10:14 PM
Translates to we will enfornce the police order

KABA556
10-24-2013, 10:19 PM
As a law enforcement officer, I think this is unmitigated BS. I disagree with the actions of the DC police. "Family Law" is modern-day witchcraft disguised as law and almost always favors the female party involved.

However, we do not know what the cops involved were told by the ex-wife. Unfortunately, if she lied like Goebbels, nothing will happen to her. Thanks, Family Court!

Interesting that the kids chose to live with Dad, probably because he's not crazy.




If I were to tell you that "guy X down the street there is an alien from another solar system, part of an advanced scouting party, he is due to make a report to the alien high command tomorrow, you need to kill him now" would you do that?

It really doesn't matter what she told them, professionals would investigate the claims before busting down a door.

Epaphroditus
10-24-2013, 10:41 PM
How can any LEO who's been on the job more than 30 seconds call a shell casing and expended round of ammunition? The round is what went downrange, what's left over is a casing.

How for from a spent casing to one prepped for reloading does a case stop being "fired" but not so far as to be actual ammunition? Polished case with no primer? Empty polished case with primer?

Mr.1904
10-24-2013, 10:57 PM
This honestly doesn't even sound real. It worries me that it is..

John Galt
10-25-2013, 8:01 AM
As a law enforcement officer, I think this is unmitigated BS.

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/about/

Hoop
10-25-2013, 8:38 AM
Wow, 30 officers in full gear. I hope they're ashamed of themselves. Fear mongering and wasting funding....

Yeah right. They're high-fiving each other and the Chief is going to be handing out medals soon.

I've known several people to whom this has happened in Placer County because they have this rabid DA who wants to charge everyone to look good. Same for El Dorado county at least before our current sheriff was elected.

This is why it is increasingly important to pay attention to who is being elected sheriff/city council in your area. If it's some political bozo who's tough-on-crime then watch out...

A-J
10-25-2013, 9:19 AM
How for from a spent casing to one prepped for reloading does a case stop being "fired" but not so far as to be actual ammunition? Polished case with no primer? Empty polished case with primer?

A spent casing does not become "ammunition" until it is realoaded with the necessary components. Is a primer by itself "ammunition"? How about the powder, or the actual bullet not yet inserted? Ammunition by common definition is the completed object, not the component parts. The same holds true for ANY object IMO. Unfortunately, the DC lawmakers have never bothered learning plain english or common sense when it comes to guns.

krwada
10-25-2013, 9:42 AM
There is nothing worse than a pissed off EX!

Untamed1972
10-25-2013, 12:29 PM
And will a court find that any of that stuff is still not an infringement of the 2A? :rolleyes:

RobG
10-25-2013, 5:20 PM
Thank God they caught this guy. He was a time bomb waiting to explode. I shudder to think what his evil plans were with those "Knight bullets." If they can kill knights, imagine what they could do to ordinary citizens. They sound super murdery. :rolleyes:

ja308
10-25-2013, 10:07 PM
Yep, so let me get this right. When the government finally does come for the guns then the LEO/Mil is going to disobey orders and remember the constitution and not enforce those laws or orders.

Well keep dreaming. ANY LEO OR MIL that doesn't do what they are told will be tuned up quicker than snot by the same types as the 30 who did this raid. End of game. Believe what you want. We have story after story of LEO and MIL acting this way, yet not one where an LEO was fired for not following an order like this. Not one of the 30 said no. So maybe they need 31. That would put the refusal rate at about 3%. Guess what that won't work and those 3% will be the first swept aside.

Welcome to the Police state, brought to you by the two party system

Blaming Bush again are we ?
Sheesh bro get a clue ! Libertarians will NEVER get enough coalitions to do anything but elect democrats !

As for the oath keepers their value is in promoting constitutional govt through education. A few of us remember hero Micheal New and how his career ended .

morfeeis
10-26-2013, 10:03 AM
Blaming Bush again are we ?
Sheesh bro get a clue ! Libertarians will NEVER get enough coalitions to do anything but elect democrats !

As for the oath keepers their value is in promoting constitutional govt through education. A few of us remember hero Micheal New and how his career ended .
I don't think that's what he was getting at, at all. As a matter of fact i think the was pitting the blame on both parties and he has a valid point. Both R&D's have done nothing to rob us of our freedoms year after year, one might do it at a slower pace than the other but there is no good in either party.

I'm not a die hard go Libertarians type of guy but when looking at all they offer and do (tea party) they are the best hope for this country. They (if they act on what they say) can bring this country back from the brink of disaster. R&D based voting has gotten us here, is that really the road we want to keep going down?

Justintoxicated
10-26-2013, 12:07 PM
Our Country is in a sad sad state.

ja308
10-27-2013, 9:58 AM
I don't think that's what he was getting at, at all. As a matter of fact i think the was pitting the blame on both parties and he has a valid point. Both R&D's have done nothing to rob us of our freedoms year after year, one might do it at a slower pace than the other but there is no good in either party.

I'm not a die hard go Libertarians type of guy but when looking at all they offer and do (tea party) they are the best hope for this country. They (if they act on what they say) can bring this country back from the brink of disaster. R&D based voting has gotten us here, is that really the road we want to keep going down?


The tea party has helped elect some hero's, such as Ted Cruz and Mike Lee ! Correct me if I'm wrong but I see Zero libertarians elected as anything .
Every elected tea party person is a Republican !

Libertarians will elect Terry the punk Mcaliff in Virginia however ! Thanks libertarians! :facepalm:

ja308
10-30-2013, 8:10 AM
Apparently Massachusetts has a law requiring registration to posses or purchase ammo or even spent cases .
NRA news reported 3 felonys committed but not prosecuted that happened during a 4 th celebration.
The situation as I recall; ww2 vet fires 2 blank rounds from a Garand during a salute, he reaches down and hands a child the 2 empty cases, the child takes the spent blank cases to school where the teacher accepts the cases .
Felony # 1 the ww2 vet had no license to handle ammo
Felony # 2 the child had no license to handle ammo
Felony # 3 the teacher had no license to handle ammo

http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/ammo.html#

One can easily understand how such laws are designed to terrorise and discourage RKBA !
Calgunners may note this is what the democrat party has planned for the entire USA .

As as side note GOALs president Jim Wallace spoke very highly of Mitt Romney and endorsed him for President :D

sl0re10
10-30-2013, 9:03 AM
I know its been said before but never let a LEO/LEA into your home without a search warrant. Even if you feel you have "nothing to hide"

Sounds like the so called unregistered ammo were balls for the old revolver... that didn't need to be registered... :rolleyes:

socom2shooter
10-30-2013, 10:10 AM
Just try to remember that most of the leo's are just doing what they were orderd to do.

morfeeis
10-30-2013, 10:41 AM
The tea party has helped elect some hero's, such as Ted Cruz and Mike Lee ! Correct me if I'm wrong but I see Zero libertarians elected as anything .
Every elected tea party person is a Republican !

Libertarians will elect Terry the punk Mcaliff in Virginia however ! Thanks libertarians! :facepalm:
Please point out for me the difference between libertarians and the tea party that aren't social issues (ie gay marriage)?

johnthomas
10-30-2013, 11:05 AM
This man's life is turned upside down. I'm glad I don't live there. If the police are so intent on spending money for what they found, why are there so many guns and murders in Washington?
The ex-wife, a woman scorn. Guys, let this be a lesson to you. Women, ex-husbands can be just as bad.
We are free thinking people in a communist country, just waiting for the door to explode and the military style police to burst in, like a festered boil that spews poison, infecting everything it touches.

ja308
10-30-2013, 11:41 AM
If Hillary wins are gun rights are in serious jepordy. The republiocans need to stear towards the center and muzzle the lunatics which are poisening the publics support for the party.


Regarding the GOP and dumb statements ! I would suggest that if any republican from a caucus member to a man in the street says anything that can be twisted into an issue. The democrat media will pound the story until the entire GOP is discredited with low information voters . A rated Todd Akin apologized 300 times for making a misstatement ! Yet democrat media never covered one apology !

Imagine if the infanticide vote of Barack were publicized half as much as the Todd Akin rape quote?

I would suggest very few democrats approve of infanticide !
Then again I may be wrong concerning democrats views about anything. One thing certain there appears to be no issue important enough for them to vote against the Democrat party !

ja308
10-30-2013, 11:59 AM
Please point out for me the difference between libertarians and the tea party that aren't social issues (ie gay marriage)?


Tea party people get elected ! Libertarians elect democrats, everytime !

Further tea party people have courage, willing to take slings and arrows daily from the White House, John McCain and big media .

Libertarians are cowardly! They adopt a mad magazine motto of Who Me?
Whenever a republican does something they approve of they take credit ! Yet their goof ball policy's will never be taken seriously or have a chance of getting even one person elected to an important office .

In nearly every case, libertarians are too illiterate to read any books related to their philosophy, including the very entertaining " Molon Labe "

Libertarians will take an F rated gun grabber over an A rated republican ! They believe that by electing democrats the system will disinenegrate into a police state and a police state will cause revolution to where the anarchist principles of libertarians can be achieved through armed rebellion !

Don't get me started ! Lol

shda5582
10-30-2013, 12:37 PM
Tea party people get elected ! Libertarians elect democrats, everytime !

Further tea party people have courage, willing to take slings and arrows daily from the White House, John McCain and big media .

Libertarians are cowardly! They adopt a mad magazine motto of Who Me?
Whenever a republican does something they approve of they take credit ! Yet their goof ball policy's will never be taken seriously or have a chance of getting even one person elected to an important office .

In nearly every case, libertarians are too illiterate to read any books related to their philosophy, including the very entertaining " Molon Labe "

Libertarians will take an F rated gun grabber over an A rated republican ! They believe that by electing democrats the system will disinenegrate into a police state and a police state will cause revolution to where the anarchist principles of libertarians can be achieved through armed rebellion !

Don't get me started ! Lol


You're an idiot.


This coming from a Libertarian.

ja308
10-30-2013, 6:34 PM
Tea party people get elected ! Libertarians elect democrats, everytime !

Further tea party people have courage, willing to take slings and arrows daily from the White House, John McCain and big media .

Libertarians are cowardly! They adopt a mad magazine motto of Who Me?
Whenever a republican does something they approve of they take credit ! Yet their goof ball policy's will never be taken seriously or have a chance of getting even one person elected to an important office .

In nearly every case, libertarians are too illiterate to read any books related to their philosophy, including the very entertaining " Molon Labe "

Libertarians will take an F rated gun grabber over an A rated republican ! They believe that by electing democrats the system will disinenegrate into a police state and a police state will cause revolution to where the anarchist principles of libertarians can be achieved through armed rebellion !

Don't get me started ! Lol

You're an idiot.


This coming from a Libertarian.

Your statement about coming from a libertarian was not required ! I guessed you a libertarian from your childish, selfish and self aggrandizing comment referring to me as an idiot !

The fact every statement posted by me regarding this most moronic and divisive party is provable hardly makes me an idiot !

What it does prove is that libertarians cannot answer critisism from even one anonymous poster on CALGUNS

Hey pal you should try fighting with big media over being a tea party republican !
Try having yourself maligned by the nations most powerful entity's, day in and day out the relentless attacks that never quit ! Yet we persevere against them, only to have libertarians elect anti gun democrats !

I have a thousand times more respect for any infanticide supporting, gun grabbing, global warming, carbon credit, UN LOVING , TREATY signing democrat that I do for ANY self identified coward, known as a LIBERTARIAN !

A democrat knows how to win !
Libertarians are losers ! Their platform is childish and unworkable, they will never achieve coalitions required to win elections. It's just NOT possible !

morfeeis
10-30-2013, 6:50 PM
Tea party people get elected ! Libertarians elect democrats, everytime !

Further tea party people have courage, willing to take slings and arrows daily from the White House, John McCain and big media .

Libertarians are cowardly! They adopt a mad magazine motto of Who Me?
Whenever a republican does something they approve of they take credit ! Yet their goof ball policy's will never be taken seriously or have a chance of getting even one person elected to an important office .

In nearly every case, libertarians are too illiterate to read any books related to their philosophy, including the very entertaining " Molon Labe "

Libertarians will take an F rated gun grabber over an A rated republican ! They believe that by electing democrats the system will disinenegrate into a police state and a police state will cause revolution to where the anarchist principles of libertarians can be achieved through armed rebellion !

Don't get me started ! Lol
So you can't point out an issue got it. I would like to point out that I've never said anything negative about the tea party. I do think it is your line of thinking that is the problem, point out issues and ditch opinions .

Peace love and chicken grease my 2a brother......

ja308
10-30-2013, 8:52 PM
So you can't point out an issue got it. I would like to point out that I've never said anything negative about the tea party. I do think it is your line of thinking that is the problem, point out issues and ditch opinions .

Peace love and chicken grease my 2a brother......

Please point out for me the difference between libertarians and the tea party that aren't social issues (ie gay marriage)?

Ok one major difference is the financing of tea party vs libertarian . Tea party folks kick in regular small amounts adding up to enough ( sometimes ) to elect conservative republicans .

Libertarians are financed by shadow donors attempting to elect democrats .
Ask your self who benefits with a strong libertarian candidate ?
We know JP Morgan financed Teddy Roosevelt's " bull moose to elect Woodrow
Wilson. As history proves Wilson was a fan of the fed reserve bill, known as the Aldrich act . The republican Taft was vehemently opposed to the money trust bill and said he would veto it .
Within recent history, billionare Ross Perot entered the race to elect internstionist, gun grabber Wm Clinton who's damage to 2 a issues would take pages to list !

Another difference is libertarians plan on eliminating nearly every aspect of govt ! Including social security and nearly every fed, state and local job.
The tea party would scale back and use attrition to lower the amount of many agency's and promote workable free market solutions within the framework of existing govt .

Since no libertarian candidate will ever hold office, its easy for these cowards to be all things to all everyone . The make it up as you go party !

But the sad fact remains, libertarians are primarily gun owners who want unlimited, abortion and probably infanticide! They think marrying your buddy is an important issue and will denigrate any progun republican who must take a traditional view of marriage and a pro life position .

In nearly every case libertarians are too uneducated to understand winning elections requires coalitions. So if the GOP comes out for infanticide or unlimited abortions or elevating the dress up your buddy and call him your wife folks . They lose at least 20 % of loyal republican voters .

Another big difference is its rare for a self identified libertarian to read much of substance . The fine novel on the free state project has been read exclusively by republicans. People like l Neil smith and a few others are beyond the capacity of nearly every child oops I mean libertarian.

I'm sure my lack of respect and actual dislike for libertarians will mean nothing ! Since every libertarian is getting his back rubbed and his bottle warmed by big democrat media and the democrat party itself.

Another difference is the tea party believes in peaceful change through the electorial process ! Libertarians must expect to force their demands through violent revolution.

This is evident from at least 2 elements of the libertarian doctrine .
# 1 the emphasis on marksmanship ! Libertarians often write about how important marksman are to the libertarian cause .

# 2 the fact libertarians will never achieve enough coalitions to get elected and as gun owners they are electing anti gun democrats. It seems likely the only option left will be Molon Labe .

The tea party folks appreciate marksman too in that history shows an armed population rarely gets invaded . The Republican Party has really furthered the gun culture by writing and passing laws to strengthen RKBA .


In nearly every instance Calgunners are moving to republican states to enjoy RKBA .
Incidentally libertarians are Not welcome in many GOP states ! Those adults have worked hard to achieve victorys over horrific odds to elect pro gun republicans !

Effective gun owners know that being part of an elected base pays dividends in what legislation is heard and if it gets signed or vetoed. It's even possible JB listened to the few democrat gun owners for his veto of SB 374 .
Libertarians are NOT electable anywhere, they never will be either!

What I've written above is not all provable, most is easily verified however .

morfeeis
10-30-2013, 10:49 PM
Ok one major difference is the financing of tea party vs libertarian . Tea party folks kick in regular small amounts adding up to enough ( sometimes ) to elect conservative republicans .

You really might want to look into the facts on this, just a quick google search proved this to be dead wrong.

Libertarians are financed by shadow donors attempting to elect democrats. Ask your self who benefits with a strong libertarian candidate ?

that's it i'm done.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?id=N00005906

Another big difference is its rare for a self identified libertarian to read much of substance . The fine novel on the free state project has been read exclusively by republicans. People like l Neil smith and a few others are beyond the capacity of nearly every child oops I mean libertarian.

But the sad fact remains, libertarians are primarily gun owners who want unlimited, abortion and probably infanticide! They think marrying your buddy is an important issue and will denigrate any progun republican who must take a traditional view of marriage and a pro life position .

Where are you getting this info from, this is all just opinions. writing a longer opinion doesn't make it more factual.

your opinions are your own, but i will leave you with this as i see no productive result coming from this exchange. I'm not sure what kind of libertarians you've been around or if one stole your bike when you were younger, but you have the completely wrong idea about US.

We don't promote gay marriage
we dont promote abortion
we don't promote a hostile attack of the government
we don't promote firing all government workers

We do advocate independence
We do advocate free thinking
We do advocate following the constitution
We do advocate the freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't affect others
We do advocate the dismantling of the federal reserve
We do advocate SOUND MONEY
we do advocate strong truthful education of our children
we do advocate strong national defense not offence!

for the most part we just want to be left the hell alone.

ja308
10-31-2013, 10:14 AM
You really might want to look into the facts on this, just a quick google search proved this to be dead wrong.



that's it i'm done.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?id=N00005906





Where are you getting this info from, this is all just opinions. writing a longer opinion doesn't make it more factual.

your opinions are your own, but i will leave you with this as i see no productive result coming from this exchange. I'm not sure what kind of libertarians you've been around or if one stole your bike when you were younger, but you have the completely wrong idea about US.

We don't promote gay marriage
we dont promote abortion
we don't promote a hostile attack of the government
we don't promote firing all government workers

We do advocate independence
We do advocate free thinking
We do advocate following the constitution
We do advocate the freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't affect others
We do advocate the dismantling of the federal reserve
We do advocate SOUND MONEY
we do advocate strong truthful education of our children
we do advocate strong national defense not offence!

for the most part we just want to be left the hell alone.


Interestingly you post a link on a successful republican congressman ( Ron Paul) who served his district in Texas for many terms as evidence the libertarian party is not financed by huge shadow donors !
Ron Paul was never elected as anything but a conservative republican ! True he ran as a loser libertarian but was rejected as is EVERY libertarian candidate .

All the we like, we don't like statements posted above are derived from a 1 paragraph statements contained in the libertarian platform . Its so easy to write 1 paragraph and never explain how anything will work . Libertarians kept it short because the idea is to recruit enough politically naive to elect gun grabbing democrats.

You will notice the libertarians never really existed until the GOP became solidly pro gun ! After the 94 elections the gun enthusiasts combined with the pro life, pro limited govt forces combined and made the GOP a formidable adversary to the gun grabbing, open borders, UN agenda democrats.

The simple fact is libertatarians can NEVER get enough voters to elect anyone!
They have been around for 40 years and their only achievement is to elect anti gun democrats and give political cover to people to afraid to announce they are proud, pro gun republicans !

The libertarians could have a chance of electing some of their own, if they were smart enough to register republican and put sleeper candidates in the GOP primary's !
Sadly each is too propagandized by the shadow financiers to use this workable plan. Those shadow billionares are using the libertarian party to elect gun grabbing, socialist,internationalist, democrats !

You obviously have reasearched the election of 1912 and know I'm right on 3 rd party's being financed to elect democrats. It works nearly every time .

Do you believe Terry McAuliffs gun grabbing money men are not delighted with the 10 % libertarians in Virginia ?

luckystrike
10-31-2013, 11:49 AM
um yeah. this place needs to be built from scratch again.

ja308
10-31-2013, 12:00 PM
um yeah. this place needs to be built from scratch again.


Last time it was built from scratch, it required men of means and the willingness to fight one of earths most powerful army's against the forces of King George 3.


It has been my observation libertarians are electing gun grabbing democrats to bring on armed conflict.
Is this what your post refers ?

Incidentally,
The men who beat King George were not dope smoking, marry your buddy, abort your child, anti Christian libertarians! They were men of faith and principle.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/DOCUMENTS/the_signers.html

So much so that even the currency made reference "In God we trust" .

luckystrike
10-31-2013, 12:52 PM
doubt it can be done again. the "men" have no means or willingness to do anything about it, they will burn the constitution as long as they get free shyt.




Is this what your post refers ?


not sure where in my very brief post that you saw me say anything about political party or religion.

also not sure if you have met a libertarian before. none of the libertarians I know "smoke dope, 'marry your buddy', abort children" or are anti-christian.

why does religion need to be involved in every aspect?

Last time it was built from scratch, it required men of means and the willingness to fight one of earths most powerful army's against the forces of King George 3.


It has been my observation libertarians are electing gun grabbing democrats to bring on armed conflict.
Is this what your post refers ?

Incidentally,
The men who beat King George were not dope smoking, marry your buddy, abort your child, anti Christian libertarians! They were men of faith and principle.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/DOCUMENTS/the_signers.html

So much so that even the currency made reference "In God we trust" .

I could be wrong, but I think "in god we trust" wasnt introduced to currency untill the 1950s.

SaltyDogUSMC
10-31-2013, 2:00 PM
As a law enforcement officer, I think this is unmitigated BS. I disagree with the actions of the DC police. "Family Law" is modern-day witchcraft disguised as law and almost always favors the female party involved.

However, we do not know what the cops involved were told by the ex-wife. Unfortunately, if she lied like Goebbels, nothing will happen to her. Thanks, Family Court!

Interesting that the kids chose to live with Dad, probably because he's not crazy.

What if the police just refuse to execute these types of warrants? That would be a huge start on the road back to sanity and individual freedom.

ja308
10-31-2013, 3:50 PM
What if the police just refuse to execute these types of warrants? That would be a huge start on the road back to sanity and individual freedom.


True ! Although as you know police and military will enforce any law on the books. Those who are oathkeepers will simply get replaced . Ideally they will go along and keep others to a code of conduct where there is no loss of life or even property damage .

Sometimes military will not enforce laws that are on the books ! Recall the court Marshall and subsequent BCD of medic Micheal New for refusing to wear a UN flag insignia? He had the law on his side, but politics overruled the law.

Best to elect people who will not write laws such as this one . If that's not possible, move to an area that respects your rights.
Semper Fidelis, Sir

Armando de la Guerra
10-31-2013, 4:20 PM
Good collar. Mr Witaschek has obviously been responsible for the majority of crime in D.C. :rolleyes:

Justice would be if these punk/thugs busted into a residence full of heavily armed criminals who then put up some real resistance. Then the gestapo in blue could find out just how good their training and equipment is.

Knife Edge
11-02-2013, 4:56 PM
Un-efing believable.

EXTREMEOPS1
11-10-2013, 8:55 PM
you don't register your ammo? Registering ammo since when ...sorry I never got that memo...I own enough unregistered ammo it must be a felony ....

Wicked Pete
11-12-2013, 5:36 PM
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac5/fig99a/20120313-boot-on-face.jpg (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/fig99a/media/20120313-boot-on-face.jpg.html)

ja308
11-16-2013, 9:01 AM
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac5/fig99a/20120313-boot-on-face.jpg (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/fig99a/media/20120313-boot-on-face.jpg.html)


Nice visual to what Orwell said when asked about what the future will be like .

As I recall he replied , " picture a boot stepping on a human face , FOREVER "

a1c
11-16-2013, 9:29 AM
This was his terrible mistake:

This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit” access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing to hide.

May it be a lesson in Fourth Amendment rights. NEVER consent.

mag360
11-18-2013, 8:57 AM
Armando I thought you don't believe we should own AR's and AK's but you are ok with criminals opening fire on authorities? Would that be with guns you want banned or whatever you have determined appropriate?

Tyke8319
11-18-2013, 9:15 AM
As much disdain as we have for the Left Wing media I am continually flabbergasted at those who are so willing to jump directly into the media hole
of editing and unequivocally believe every word as it is written!!
If any of you have a Law Enforcement friend with any degree of credible experience get their input as to how the Police should have operated in this incident based on the information given in the "sworn" affidavit it took to get a search warrant.
I have lead many a search warrant over my 30 year career and at the conclusion of every lengthy and detailed briefing my final words to my guys were, "Be safe! We all have families that want us home to tonight."

LoneYote
11-18-2013, 1:52 PM
I have lead many a search warrant over my 30 year career and at the conclusion of every lengthy and detailed briefing my final words to my guys were, "Be safe! We all have families that want us home to tonight."

Nothing in there about acting like professionals? Or is that the beginning of the speech before everyone stops talking?

seo
11-18-2013, 7:43 PM
I hope he has a good lawyer and the sues the poop out of DC.

Great, and your and everyone else's taxes will pay for it.

Corsair415
11-18-2013, 8:25 PM
Great, and your and everyone else's taxes will pay for it.You're right, just let them get away with it.:rolleyes:

Tyke8319
11-19-2013, 10:05 AM
Nothing in there about acting like professionals? Or is that the beginning of the speech before everyone stops talking?

That was never in question and never needed to be!

sfarchitect
11-19-2013, 12:21 PM
Hey fellas, did you know if you wrap your head completely in tin foil it'll block the government's mind control rays?!

Bunch of, albeit well armed, but none the less scared old white guys afraid the white, chirtistian, society they grew up in is changing.

I'm a gun owning San Francisco liberal and while I'm not saying you're entirely wrong guys, listen to yourselves. Like it or not, America is no longer mostly white, mostly christian, or and I know this scares lots of of you, all straight.

All these folks that claim to love America. But reading this thread, you sure can't help but be left with the impression you all seem to hate an awful lot of Americans.

javalos
11-26-2013, 12:10 PM
Regardless of what they found or what happened, without knowing the details of the initial information they had to act upon; their actions could have been reasonable. For all we know they had "reliable" information that this guy was an illegal arms amd drug dealer.
I highly doubt they wanted to raid his house for two spent casings and some bullets...

Another SCOTUS case? :)

Your not that naive are you? I've seen at least two over the top incidences of police abuse over one unfounded accusation. We need to urge our legislators to stop this madness.

morfeeis
11-26-2013, 6:20 PM
Hey fellas, did you know if you wrap your head completely in tin foil it'll block the government's mind control rays?!

Bunch of, albeit well armed, but none the less scared old white guys afraid the white, chirtistian, society they grew up in is changing.

I'm a gun owning San Francisco liberal and while I'm not saying you're entirely wrong guys, listen to yourselves. Like it or not, America is no longer mostly white, mostly christian, or and I know this scares lots of of you, all straight.

All these folks that claim to love America. But reading this thread, you sure can't help but be left with the impression you all seem to hate an awful lot of Americans.
What the **** are you talking about?
1: this country is far worse than it use to be
2: things aren't getting any better
3: I'm black since you brought up race
5: you're ignorant or special needs or a part of the problem if you don't see what's going on.

njineermike
11-26-2013, 6:24 PM
Hey fellas, did you know if you wrap your head completely in tin foil it'll block the government's mind control rays?!

Bunch of, albeit well armed, but none the less scared old white guys afraid the white, chirtistian, society they grew up in is changing.

I'm a gun owning San Francisco liberal and while I'm not saying you're entirely wrong guys, listen to yourselves. Like it or not, America is no longer mostly white, mostly christian, or and I know this scares lots of of you, all straight.

All these folks that claim to love America. But reading this thread, you sure can't help but be left with the impression you all seem to hate an awful lot of Americans.

Fail level: expert.

e90bmw
12-04-2013, 5:09 PM
I know its been said before but never let a LEO/LEA into your home without a search warrant. Even if you feel you have "nothing to hide"

Exactly.
And if they want to have a discussion, ask them to wait while you call your attorney.

LoneYote
12-04-2013, 5:24 PM
That was never in question and never needed to be!

Interesting point of view. Your people were smart enough to act like professionals and show respect but not smart enough to know that their personal safety was in danger.
As a civilian I am telling you(the cop) that it should ALWAYS be something that is questioned. The fact that you think police activity is above questioning shows a sever lack of respect and professionalism.

squee116
12-05-2013, 4:18 PM
First off, I'm not really sure how libertarians play into this. As you so energetically point out, there aren't Libertarians in power. Washington DC has become the way it is under your preferred two party system. The country has gotten to where it is under your two party system.

Gun registration, ammo registration, permits for carrying guns, bans on machine guns, short barreled rifles, suppressors, etc., happened under a two party system. In what way has freedom expanded from our founding in the late 1700s regarding firearms under the 2 party system? If they do any good, Republicans slow the damage, maybe (assuming they don't just sign onto it). If you are okay with losing rights slowly, as opposed to trying to regain your rights, then you're on the right track. But Libertarians, the powerless party which you excoriate at every chance, have done nothing to prevent Republicans from doing the right thing over the last 100 to 200 years in regards to firearms.

People's inability to think outside of the known political universe is why this poor man is in the situation he's in. In science, when you repeat the same experiment and expect different results, you are crazy. Apparently, in politics, you're just dedicated and smarter than everyone else.
Tea party people get elected ! Libertarians elect democrats, everytime !

Further tea party people have courage, willing to take slings and arrows daily from the White House, John McCain and big media .

Libertarians are cowardly! They adopt a mad magazine motto of Who Me?
Whenever a republican does something they approve of they take credit ! Yet their goof ball policy's will never be taken seriously or have a chance of getting even one person elected to an important office .

In nearly every case, libertarians are too illiterate to read any books related to their philosophy, including the very entertaining " Molon Labe "

Libertarians will take an F rated gun grabber over an A rated republican ! They believe that by electing democrats the system will disinenegrate into a police state and a police state will cause revolution to where the anarchist principles of libertarians can be achieved through armed rebellion !

Don't get me started ! Lol