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View Full Version : Bought 7.62x54r Silver Tip Ammo - Can't use at range, obviously. What to do with it?


victimeyes
10-21-2013, 12:06 PM
Hey Community,

I made a dumb mistake. Let's get that out of the way first. :facepalm:

I purchased 440rd tin can of Mosin Nagant Ammo (7.65x54r) from classicfirearms.com

There's steel in it, and as you know this won't be okay to use at the ranges.

Do you recommend that I try to sell it off, if so where?
Or are there places that I can go and use this type of round? (friends recommended the desert... )

Specs on the round:

7.62x54r Silver Tip Ammo
Product Specs
Copper Washed Steel Cased
Berdan Primed, Corrosive
149 Grain Silver Tip FMJ Boat Tail Bullet
Bullet has a light lead coating bonded to the Copper Jacket
With a Steel Shank Core
440rds per tin, 2 tins in a crate
Caliber 7.62x54R

BigJ
10-21-2013, 12:10 PM
Not all ranges disallow steel cored ammo. Make sure you ask around.

Also, if by "the desert" you mean BLM land, I've read that in SoCal steel core ammo has been banned from much of the BLM land, and that the rangers out there are actively policing that restriction. Again, ask around your specific area to ensure you're allowed to shoot it out there, and then use common sense keeping in mind the fire hazard steel core ammo presents.

Beyond that, sell it or sock it away for a rainy day.

Nevertipsy
10-21-2013, 12:18 PM
Burro canyon at times allows you to shoot steel at times, call them for when the allow it. And as the above CGer said... BLM land is your alternative option. Just about all surplus mosin ammo is steel cased haha. Good luck and be safe.

0351USMC
10-21-2013, 12:19 PM
Burro canyon at times allows you to shoot steel at times, call them for when the allow it. And as the above CGer said... BLM land is your alternative option. Just about all surplus mosin ammo is steel cased haha. Good luck and be safe.

steelcore ammo is Banned in BLM.

kygen
10-21-2013, 12:21 PM
If youre NorCal, then BLM would be fine I believe

socom2shooter
10-21-2013, 12:31 PM
Be careful with it i wont buy silver tip anymore. Got a box and every other round had deleyed ignition. Hopefully you have better luck than me

viper37
10-21-2013, 3:05 PM
steelcore ammo is Banned in BLM.

Proof? Not saying your not telling the truth, just looking for info.

I've been using surplus ammo on BLM land for years and never been asked a question by rangers.

thegiff
10-21-2013, 3:23 PM
<snip>. The fire danger is highly over rated (IMO, especially with a dirt berm) and I suspect many just make up BS to get you to buy their stuff.<endsnip>

A fire at WEGC about a month and a half ago says you're wrong. All ammo was checked, no steel core or tracer ammo was found, best guess is that it was a richochet off the ground or someone punched through a steel target.

NorCalFocus
10-21-2013, 3:45 PM
You should send the ammo to me for proper disposal. :52:

OldShooter32
10-21-2013, 3:48 PM
I'll take it!

0351USMC
10-21-2013, 3:51 PM
I'll take it!

GL,
OP said he paid $160 for Spam Can:facepalm:
Spam can was $89 shipped last wkend from PSA.

dinosauraphael
10-21-2013, 3:57 PM
Shoot it at Raahague's. They allow steel core/surplus ammo.

victimeyes
10-21-2013, 4:19 PM
yes it was 160$ a can from classicarms ($110 + $50 shipping).

The positive reviews tipped me over to buying.

I ordered it 2 weeks ago. Had I waited a little longer, i think i might've came upon the PSA deal.

Not sure I can sell for less than $100 ...

Maybe I should just keep the rounds? I did read that Buro Canyon (azusa) has a wet season where these rounds would be allowed. Emailed them find out when that was.

Any other opinions on what I should do? I'm sure this post will be a good resource for future Facepalmers like me.. haha :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


Dinosaur, thanks! will check it out.

milotrain
10-21-2013, 4:29 PM
The fire danger is highly over rated (IMO, especially with a dirt berm) and I suspect many just make up BS to get you to buy their stuff.

I've seen three range fires in SoCal in three years. One was steel core, one was solid hunting, one was a handgun round skipped off the deck high into the grass above the berm. When you are at a remote range it's nearly impossible to put the fire out yourself, and you have to drive to find reception. When you are at a public range then it is a HUGE fine to pay for the heli and fire truck to come out and fix your **** up.

DO NOT F*CK WITH FIRE IN SO CAL. The risk is way too great.

In regards to the silver tip just mexican match it. Use a bullet seater in a single stage to pop the current bullet in a bit, then pull it with a kinetic, then drop a .312" Hornady 150 gr. SP on top and go to town.

You can't find powder or primers anyway so you just bough primed sized and charged brass for cheap. Then sell your .30cal pulled bullets to someone in the east.

Noonanda
10-21-2013, 6:52 PM
Then sell your .30cal pulled bullets to someone in the east.
I'd buy em because up here in the desert if you are able to start a fire shooting steel core then it makes me think you must be shooting at some stuff you shouldnt be shooting anyway (roadflares and propane cannisters come to mind, seen idiots doing it)

I shoot into the side of a mountain and use steel core7.62x54 and M-855 all the time as well as occasionally using a little bit of the .30-06 AP I bought from the CMP ( i am conserving that stuff though)

victimeyes
10-22-2013, 12:09 AM
I shoot into the side of a mountain and use steel core7.62x54 and M-855 all the time as well as occasionally using a little bit of the .30-06 AP I bought from the CMP ( i am conserving that stuff though)

Where do you usually go to shoot?

Swagman00
10-22-2013, 5:58 AM
Stick with PRVI on CTD or Midway. A box of 20 runs $16.50 ATM.


In regards to the silver tip just mexican match it. Use a bullet seater in a single stage to pop the current bullet in a bit, then pull it with a kinetic, then drop a .312" Hornady 150 gr. SP on top and go to town.

You can't find powder or primers anyway so you just bough primed sized and charged brass for cheap. Then sell your .30cal pulled bullets to someone in the east.

Yeppers on this. Just pick up a press, bullet collet, dies, and some pills.

Just pull the steel and replace with something of the same weight, but reduce the powder charge 5%. Last I remember, the 7.62x54 milsurp charge weighs somewhere around 47 gr. but measure it first and go from there.

After that first fire though, you don't want to mess with steel and berdan primers. It's nowhere near as easy as brass like the PRVI stated above. It's also a lot nicer when you rack the bolt on a Mosin and never have it stick anymore.

I'd be more then happy to take those leftover silvertips from you for a reasonable price. They run fantastic at 100 yards from my SKS.

Justintoxicated
10-22-2013, 8:06 AM
Put in in your safe / ammo storage area and leave it there. You will know when the time is right to bring it back out :)

GM4spd
10-22-2013, 8:19 AM
Find and support a range that lets you shoot steel core. The fire danger is highly over rated (IMO, especially with a dirt berm) and I suspect many just make up BS to get you to buy their stuff.


In SoCal the fire danger is not overrated and steel in bullet jackets does
cause sparks and fires.Even with a dirt berm bullets don't always end up
there and sparks near any dried vegetation will burn. Pete

ziconceo
10-22-2013, 8:35 AM
I'd be more then happy to take those leftover silvertips from you for a reasonable price. They run fantastic at 100 yards from my SKS.

Your sks shoots 7.62x54r?

milotrain
10-22-2013, 9:48 AM
I think he's saying he'd take the pulled silvertips in the case that OP wants to swap in some FMJ non bimetal.

Noonanda
10-22-2013, 4:10 PM
Where do you usually go to shoot?

29 Palms, out in the Desert

milotrain
10-22-2013, 4:12 PM
Of the fires that are blamed on shooting there is really never any evidence

I've been there for three of them, they were 100% ammo and shooting related. No tracers either time or exploding targets either time. I have the melted shoes to prove it and there was only one person shooting on the line in two of the cases and we know exactly what was being run in the gun.

GM4spd
10-22-2013, 4:17 PM
Of the fires that are blamed on shooting there is really never any evidence, mostly supposition and general blame. Tracer rounds, exploding targets, shooting spark inducing targets, smoking ect are probably more to blame than anything. I'll bet you couldn't start a fire if you tried. It is a way over blown issue. I have read about the stories and believe the causes to be other than steel core ammo. It isn't as easy as many make it out to be and steel core is just getting a bad wrap for naught. I don't buy the hype. Just my $0.02 though.

The more you talk the more evident it becomes that you dont know what you are
talking about (with regards to range fires started here in socal by steel or bimetal
jacketed bullets.). Pete

victimeyes
10-22-2013, 6:21 PM
any recommendations for ranges on the way up to sacramento/SF from LA?

LCpl Kutches
10-23-2013, 11:42 AM
Most outdoor ranges in Northern California allow usage of this ammo. I have personally used about 1200 rounds with my Mosin Nagants for cheap fun ammo. Most places with outdoor ranges don't mind it at all.

The ammo is highly corrosive, just a hint of warning.

Find a range in your location, mostly outdoor ranges.

ExtremeX
10-23-2013, 1:23 PM
Proof? Not saying your not telling the truth, just looking for info.

I've been using surplus ammo on BLM land for years and never been asked a question by rangers.

Its under their fire restrictions...


Firearms and Ammunition

The possession or discharge of a firearm using incendiary, tracer, steel core, or armor piercing ammunition is hereby prohibited on all public lands of the California Desert District.

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/cdd/fire_restrictions.html

amishfarmer
10-24-2013, 12:41 AM
any recommendations for ranges on the way up to sacramento/SF from LA?

Yolo Sportsman association in Davis...they should let you shoot steelcore. I stopped shooting there for a private club but they are not bad. Some of there RO's can come across as A-holes but sometimes being safe minded needs an -a-hole to remind them

64physhy
10-24-2013, 12:43 AM
Keep it for SHTF ammo.

vincewarde
11-01-2013, 2:10 PM
As a former firefighter, I can confirm that steel core ammo can start a fire. It is unlikely to do so, but it is possible - provided the bullet hits something like a rock AND the fuel is very dry AND the sparks land in some fine "tinder". If you have ever used a spark device to stark a camp fire, you know how hard it can be. Yet, given enough rounds it will happen.

That said, when shooting into a dirt berm, the risk is essentially zero - because dirt doesn't burn. I think this is why in all the years I have been shooting at Sac Valley no one ever checked my ammo.

Personally, I would simply hold on to the ammo and shoot it in the winter when chances are no one will care.

cdmcdoug
11-02-2013, 9:22 PM
Lytle Creek will let you shoot steel ammo when it is not real dry out. Call them before you go and they will let you know.

Movin&Shakin
11-05-2013, 8:23 PM
Kutches - that youtube video was very touching, and I have passed it along with your comments to my friends. Thank you for sharing it. Very sad to see that young marine didn't make it. I'm sure he saved many American lives.

desert dog
11-06-2013, 7:41 AM
The fire danger is highly over rated (IMO, especially with a dirt berm) and I suspect many just make up BS to get you to buy their stuff.

My local range had 2 grass fires last year because of steel-core ammo, which closed the range temporarily. They do not allow it and post signs, but don't go as far as inspecting peoples ammo. Some people try to take advantage of the self-policing policy of the range and everyone suffers for it.

The anti-steel policy is for 2 reasons:
1) Fire prevention. This is very serious issue on ranges with long-range targets.
2) To prolong the life of their steel targets. When bubba gets a new mosin, the first thing he does is load up on AP 180gr and starts chewing up the 100 yard gong.

elsolo
11-06-2013, 7:25 PM
SHTF stash

Save it for when ammo sales get highly restricted in CA (or fear of proposed legislation), that makes people want to buy whatever they can get their hands on.

Unless you need the funds back now to flip into ammo you can shoot at most ranges, it's been sitting in that spam can for decades, a few more years is nothing.

Agustav
11-08-2013, 7:27 AM
For those that don't believe steel core can cause fire, try shooting steel core at a metal target at night. Get ready for firework...

Just to be fair, lead core ammo also create sparks, but not as spectacular as the steel core veriety! :eek:

desert dog
11-08-2013, 9:05 PM
Even with this, in the dirt? No way! Under a bunch of newspapers/sawdust? Possible; though not probable. Try it sometime and you too will see what I mean!

Nope, the bullet only needs to hit a rock in dry grass/brush. Shoot a rock at night with steel core and see for yourself. Fires at ranges due to steel bullets are actually very common, talk to a rangemaster the next time you see one.

Something tells me that you shoot on a tiny range. I shoot on a range with steel targets out to almost a grand. These ranges lack the perfectly groomed backstops and it would be impossible to remove every rock and blade of grass between the firing line and distant targets that cover hillsides.

Its like trying to convince you that the female orgasm really exists, but if you never saw one you are going to doubt the thousands of other men who have ;)

BrokerB
11-08-2013, 9:21 PM
If a commercial range cant keep the firing area free of Brush that starts wild fires wtf? Dirt berms even loaded with magical spark rocks does not unleash fire dragon breath.

Its incredibly easy to have a cleared shooting area. It does nto need to be 300 yard radius of the berm ..hell 50 feet is plenty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n71SFgcCE_g

desert dog
11-11-2013, 4:05 PM
If a commercial range cant keep the firing area free of Brush that starts wild fires wtf? Dirt berms even loaded with magical spark rocks does not unleash fire dragon breath.

Its incredibly easy to have a cleared shooting area. It does nto need to be 300 yard radius of the berm ..hell 50 feet is plenty

Once again, this clearing is not possible on many "hillside" shooting ranges in the mountains and foothills of California. I am not talking flat ranges or ranges in the desert.

Think you can solve the issue? Call Burro Canyon which has had many fires with steel core ammo VERIFIED to be the cause, or Angeles, or Sac Valley, or 5-dogs, and countless others. You can probably get a good job with those ranges if you have a cost effective way to clear an entire mountain-side of vegetation without an environmental Impact report that costs more than the range will ever make.

Sure, you could clear the area around the steel targets, but whats going to stop Bubba from shooting at a rocky outcropping 100 feet away from any target? Who is going to stop the stoned punk with a Big-5 Mosin from trying to vaporize a squirrel sitting on top of a rock? Are you going to trust that every yahoo that comes to the range will only shoot at the designated targets? What about the folks trying to hit the 500 yard gong with sights that are off by 20 MOA?

I have personally seen a small grass fire started by steel-core from a 54R spam-can. I have personally seen the shower of sparks and light show it makes when you hit a rock with it at night. Like I stated earlier, ask a rangemaster yourself if you don't believe us.

Here is a USFS study: http://media.thedenverchannel.com/documents/Finney_et%20al_rp104.pdf
According to this study; "The only type of bullet that consistently did not produce ignitions was made with a lead core and copper jacket". But they were consistently able to get ignition with steel-core and solid copper bullets.

Movin&Shakin
11-11-2013, 8:05 PM
I think you are both right. Rahauges could make one short range with little effort to handle it. But my guess is they pay the rent by digging out the lead so that won't work. Just save your steel for SHTF, then it won't matter

BrokerB
11-11-2013, 8:47 PM
You can shoot steel core at sac valley, just just not at their their silhouette range.

I did say say commercial range so I will stick to to that. The no no blue ranges, meaning you should not be able to see sky are are perfect for steel core. The bullet either hits its its target area or a rail road tie or similar wood s structure.

BrokerB
11-11-2013, 9:01 PM
Reading through that report is funny, let me put some 6 inches if super dry dry fluffy peat moss and see uf we can get some some smoldering.

With all these dire fire breathing bullets im I'm suprised Russia and eastern Europe didn't burn down.

desert dog
11-12-2013, 7:35 AM
With all these dire fire breathing bullets im I'm suprised Russia and eastern Europe didn't burn down.

I don't know about Europe, but the ranges here in Cali sure do!

usmc858
11-12-2013, 8:15 AM
Even with this, in the dirt? No way! Under a bunch of newspapers/sawdust? Possible; though not probable. Try it sometime and you too will see what I mean!

Haven't you ever shot at a target area and see a round impact 100 - 150 yards out? Rounds do skip. Into uncleared area.

I was just out shooting at some blm land this weekend and the ranger was out there cleaning up. We always clean before shooting and said we would help him out.

Noticed the whole area was burned, he said it happened about 6 weeks ago from a guy that was shooting steel core.

The ranger estimated he would be receiving a bill in the 10's of thousands in addition to his fine.

It's not like it happens all the time and the people are probably doing something a little "extra" with their targets and the placement is bad but....it does happen.

icormba
11-12-2013, 8:26 AM
With all these dire fire breathing bullets im I'm suprised Russia and eastern Europe didn't burn down.

It did! ;)

Russ Florian
11-14-2013, 3:54 PM
You should send the ammo to me for proper disposal. :52: Actually, I'm pretty sure that ammo is so dangerous that it takes two people to dispose of. I'll get rid of 220 rounds and bury it in the dirt, right behind my targets, on public land

Russ Florian
11-14-2013, 4:09 PM
Seriously, go have fun , and shoot it responsably out doors. ;)
A real hard hitting round, that's fun and cheap to shoot. Enjoy.

Socalman
11-15-2013, 6:43 AM
Burro canyon at times allows you to shoot steel at times, call them for when the allow it. And as the above CGer said... BLM land is your alternative option. Just about all surplus mosin ammo is steel cased haha. Good luck and be safe.

Burro Canyon will allow steel core ammo only on days when it is raining or after several days of heavy rainfall. At least that is what the policy was. It could be different these days. I am a member there and don't even bother checking about the policy, I just make sure I have acceptable ammo if I intend to shoot rifle.

earhole
11-16-2013, 7:08 AM
For those who believe that steel core is so easy to start a fire, try this. Take some gasoline (maybe 1/2 gallon to a gallon) and dump it into the street then take a cigarette and try and start a fire. You'll soon learn how hard it is to start a fire. I did this in my youth as a project/science experiment and what I learned was it is really difficult to start a fire. Even with all the angles covered. Shooting into dirt burms, even with rocks, you couldn't do it if you tried! Bunch of hullabaloo!

It's the fumes in gasoline. Put a light over an open container instead of pouring it out into the concrete.

Fishslayer
11-21-2013, 10:48 AM
Any other opinions on what I should do? I'm sure this post will be a good resource for future Facepalmers like me.. haha :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


If you haven't opened the can already stash it away. It's like I tell the wife... "It doesn't eat anything & it never goes bad." :D
If you've opened the can already put the ammo in a GI can. It'll last almost forever.

In San Diego you can shoot it at P2K.

Watch the Marketplace. Yugo milsurp pops up once in awhile. It's all brass, lead and copper. Good stuff, but corrosive.

If you go shopping for commersh non steel take a magnet. There is WWB and S&B out there that have steel in the projectile.

stephewc
11-21-2013, 11:20 AM
Just save them for a rainy day (literally :P).

stix213
11-21-2013, 11:07 PM
You could give someone up in the bay area a good deal on some ammo :)