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View Full Version : 21in. .30cal blank. What would you do?


technique
10-17-2013, 7:45 AM
So it isn't actually a blank, it is currently chambered in .308, so take that into consideration as I may lose a 1/2in. or so having to rechamber.

What do I want it for?

I'm specifically looking for positive effect on soft targets. Deer, Elk, Wolf, etc
I already have a .308 gas gun so I really don't want .308 boltgun.

Would a 300WM or 300WSM, ballisticly, with a 21in. barrel, have anymore of a positive effect on an animal than a .308? Is there something in .30cal that will?

Suggestions, please?

Iloveguns
10-17-2013, 7:52 AM
Do you have a long action or a short action?

technique
10-17-2013, 8:06 AM
Do you have a long action or a short action?

I have no action, just a barrel.

FMJBT
10-17-2013, 8:10 AM
What twist rate?

Iloveguns
10-17-2013, 8:15 AM
What twist rate?

Another good question. Well if you are starting from scratch with just a blank a 300 WM is a great round. Provided you have a fast enough twist rate to push the heavier bullets.

technique
10-17-2013, 8:22 AM
What twist rate?

Broughton barrel 1/10, meant to mention that-

FMJBT
10-17-2013, 8:26 AM
Another good question. Well if you are starting from scratch with just a blank a 300 WM is a great round. Provided you have a fast enough twist rate to push the heavier bullets.

300 WM is an awesome round. It definitely likes the powder though. When loading these, I go through 1 LB jugs of H-1000 at an alarming rate :eek: I cut my 300 WM Sendero down to 20" to make it handle a bit better, but haven't had a chance to take it out to the range yet to see how the loss of 6" of barrel has affected performance at long range. I was running 190 Nosler BTHP's through it in stock form. Since I cut it down, I've been loading up Hornady 208 and 225 grain BTHP's in an attempt to get a more efficient powder burn in the shorter barrel.

technique
10-17-2013, 8:41 AM
300 WM is an awesome round. It definitely likes the powder though. When loading these, I go through 1 LB jugs of H-1000 at an alarming rate :eek: I cut my 300 WM Sendero down to 20" to make it handle a bit better, but haven't had a chance to take it out to the range yet to see how the loss of 6" of barrel has affected performance at long range. I was running 190 Nosler BTHP's through it in stock form. Since I cut it down, I've been loading up Hornady 208 and 225 grain BTHP's in an attempt to get a more efficient powder burn in the shorter barrel.

I'm thinking 600yrds and in? I'm not sure that's considered long range for a 300WM. I've been getting within 350yrds of Elk herds.

I probly wouldn't be shooting it very much so I'd be loading very little, maybe even just buying over the counter ammo.
Cabelas and Sportsmans up here has a huge selection of it.

I have had people tell me that using a 300 WM/WSM in a barrel so short just isn't worth it. It hits with the same energy as a .308.
I can't figureout how to calculate that? Or, find a online program that tells you that?

Iloveguns
10-17-2013, 8:55 AM
Is your blank for a finished length of 21" or can it be longer?

FMJBT
10-17-2013, 9:00 AM
I'm thinking 600yrds and in? I'm not sure that's considered long range for a 300WM. I've been getting within 350yrds of Elk herds.

I probly wouldn't be shooting it very much so I'd be loading very little, maybe even just buying over the counter ammo.
Cabelas and Sportsmans up here has a huge selection of it.

I have had people tell me that using a 300 WM/WSM in a barrel so short just isn't worth it. It hits with the same energy as a .308.
I can't figureout how to calculate that? Or, find a online program that tells you that?

600 yards is an easy day for the 300 Win Mag. When mine still had the 26" barrel, it was still punching holes through 1/2" mild steel plate at 650 yards with the 190 Nosler Custom Comps. I'm sure that lopping off 6" of barrel has taken the velocity down a notch or two, but it will still be well above the performance level of a 308.

I've readthat 300 WSM has better performance out of shorter barrels than the Win Mag due to the more efficient burn of the shorter fatter case. I don't have any personal experience with that round though. I'm pretty sure either version of the 300 will give you the terminal performance you're looking for within 600 yards.

technique
10-17-2013, 9:02 AM
Is your blank for a finished length of 21" or can it be longer?

I'm not sure what this means.
Like I said in the first post, it is actually chambered in .308, so it's chambered.
The Overall length is 21in from receiver threads (R700) to Muzzle threads. If that helps?

Blank was probly the wrong word. It was a straight contour, the receiver threads were cut, muzzle threads cut, and chambered...I just never used it.

FMJBT
10-17-2013, 9:20 AM
If it's 21" from end to end, that should be about a 20" barrel length once installed, as measured from the end of the muzzle to the bolt face when locked up.

Should look something like this:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8521/8623775770_c82074a633_c.jpg

Iloveguns
10-17-2013, 9:38 AM
So if your looking to get it set back then its going to be even shorter. I say run it as is.

Bhobbs
10-17-2013, 9:41 AM
How about ream it to .30-06 and load up the heavies?

technique
10-17-2013, 10:24 AM
If it's 21" from end to end, that should be about a 20" barrel length once installed, as measured from the end of the muzzle to the bolt face when locked up.

Should look something like this:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8521/8623775770_c82074a633_c.jpg

And that's your .300WM? Nice!

FMJBT
10-17-2013, 11:05 AM
And that's your .300WM? Nice!

Thanks :) This was the result of a "Budget Refit" I did a few months ago. Did everything on the cheap, relatively. Stock is a Choate Tactical that I spent hours stippling with a soldering iron. I inletted it for a DBM setup from Stocky's along with a AICS 10 round mag (Should have gone with the 5 rd. mag in hindsight) Barrel is the factory Remington Sendero barrel (minus 6") that I had contoured for an Ops Inc. collar. I still need to get either an Ops Inc, or Ops compatible brake for this thing. I considering the short 308 version of the Spikes Dynacomp just to keep the overall length down. Eventually this will get an Ops Inc. 12th model in 30 cal when I can move to a state that allows it.

I'm waiting on funds to get a decent scope for it before I shoot it. Right now it's wearing a BSA Tactical scope from Midway that I figure should be good for about 5 or 6 shots before it goes belly up :D

MongooseV8
10-17-2013, 3:34 PM
A short 308 will have a bunch of energy out to about 800 yards using Sierra 180 Gamekings. They have a decent ballistic coefficient and the extra weight behind them. No need for the Win Mag in your case as much as I like them. That is unless you enjoy buying almost double the powder and dealing with more recoil and muzzle blast. If anything I would cut it down to about 18" with a varmint contour. You would have about 700 ft pounds at 800 yards. Plenty for deer ect, and have a light target rifle.

LynnJr
10-17-2013, 5:51 PM
If you don't want to lose anymore length leave the tenon alone and run a 300 WSM reamer in it.
It will hit harder than any 308 will and accuracy is simply outstanding.
If you decide to reload for it Norma brass 64.0 grains of H4350 CCI BR2 primer and a 185-190 grain bullet.Reamer should have 0.230 freebore or more and 1.5 degree leade.

ar15barrels
10-17-2013, 6:23 PM
If it's 21" from end to end, that should be about a 20" barrel length once installed, as measured from the end of the muzzle to the bolt face when locked up.

If it's 21" long outside the gun, it will still be 21" once installed.

technique
10-17-2013, 6:36 PM
A short 308 will have a bunch of energy out to about 800 yards using Sierra 180 Gamekings. They have a decent ballistic coefficient and the extra weight behind them. No need for the Win Mag in your case as much as I like them. That is unless you enjoy buying almost double the powder and dealing with more recoil and muzzle blast. If anything I would cut it down to about 18" with a varmint contour. You would have about 700 ft pounds at 800 yards. Plenty for deer ect, and have a light target rifle.

I'm trying not to own anymore .308 guns.

If you don't want to lose anymore length leave the tenon alone and run a 300 WSM reamer in it.


That's kinda why I was wondering about WSM. being it is longer than .308 but shorter than WM, I figured it be the best oping for re-chamber.
I just didn't know if it was worth it downrange.

If it's 21" long outside the gun, it will still be 21" once installed.

Any input on effect downrange, given the length/twist and suggested calibers-

FMJBT
10-17-2013, 7:56 PM
If it's 21" long outside the gun, it will still be 21" once installed.

Doh! You're right as usual. My brain is stuck on AR-15 mode, I was thinking the barrel extended past the end of the chamber for some reason. :facepalm:

NorCalFocus
10-17-2013, 9:11 PM
I second the 30-.06 option. Shoot the heavier bullets with that twist, get better punch than the .308.

ar15barrels
10-17-2013, 10:15 PM
Any input on effect downrange, given the length/twist and suggested calibers-

I don't like short barrels on 30 calibers.
I don't think you realize how much more accurate bolt guns are in a precision role than semi-autos and you are short selling yourself short by NOT building a nice heavy target 308.
A quality barrel such as you have should be able to shoot 1/3moa out to 400+yds without much work.
Good luck getting an autoloader to do that...

technique
10-18-2013, 6:44 AM
I'm just working with what I have. I realize the difference in accuracy, but that's not what I'm after. Death is the size of a paper plate on a deer.. I accomplish that with a gas gun already.

I want more energy for larger, horse sized game.
My blank is 21in. Nothing I can do to make it larger. I don't shoot game past 600 and my gas gun can already do that. I don't need gun that can do it more accurately,
I need a gun that can kill things deader at that distance with energy, not accuracy.

technique
10-18-2013, 6:57 AM
I'm just gonna try 300WSM.

I can kill a deer with a .22cal pellet gun, with accuracy.
I just wanna biotch slap something with death.

I think something like '06 or WM is too long a cartridge for an already short barrel.

MongooseV8
10-18-2013, 9:38 AM
You are only looking at an additional 10-15% increase in energy going with the 300 short Mag and need 40-50% more powder to do it. You will get about 150-200 more fps, more recoil and more muzzle blast as well.

I'm not saying one is better I just want you to know what your trade off will be. I love all the Magnum rounds in any barrel length. Whatever you end up with will certainly be fun in a short rifle!

technique
10-18-2013, 1:12 PM
You are only looking at an additional 10-15% increase in energy going with the 300 short Mag and need 40-50% more powder to do it. You will get about 150-200 more fps, more recoil and more muzzle blast as well.

I'm not saying one is better I just want you to know what your trade off will be. I love all the Magnum rounds in any barrel length. Whatever you end up with will certainly be fun in a short rifle!

That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Where are you getting this type of info from? Just basic back of the box info?

Another factor is just that over the counter "hunting" ammo is pretty few and far between. I like to shoot 168gr. .308 but between Cabelas,
and 2 Sportsmans all I could get was slim pickins on 150gr. I just didn't have the time to load any up.

Cruising the stores again today, 300WSM is abundant. Between .308/300WM/30-06. 300RUM and 300WSM, there was just way more 300WSM.

Again, I'm not precision shooting paper, I'm not going to be shooting this gun off season, I'll likely not reload much if any,
until I fire a bunch of factory sighting it in, getting some idea of how it shoots, and then killin' stuff- and then collect that brass.

I've got a SCAR-H and a R700 SPS in .308 and I hunt with both. I just want something different. Idaho is the land of $350 used 700's that have been fired 3 times a year
but the exterior is beat to crap from riding on an ATV or rolling around in a pick-up, scratched win the brush etc... it's nothing to re-barrel one of these and refinish.

deadcoyote
10-18-2013, 3:21 PM
Sell it and buy another barrel in .35 whelen?

MongooseV8
10-18-2013, 3:29 PM
Figure out your load then factor in your lost velocity due to barrel length. I use my reloading manuals to find a realistic velocity to start with. Then subtract 25-40 fps per inch (could be more or less depending on cartridge and barrel length) of barrel loss from the length of the test barrel used in the load data. Then find your bullet ballistic coefficient and plug in the numbers using a ballistics calculator. Handloads.com has a basic one that I use a lot for quick reference.

You will pretty much always be faster with a Win Mag or Short Mag out of any length barrel when compared to a 308. But the 308 family is pretty efficient compared to most other cases so there is a point when a 308 makes more sense.

All that being said each barrel/rifle is different and some will shoot faster than others in the same exact configuration.

killshot44
10-18-2013, 4:32 PM
A 30-06 and the 300WM require a long-action. And both the WinMag and 300WSM require a magnum bolt for the larger casehead.

Just sayin'......

ar15barrels
10-18-2013, 7:40 PM
That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Where are you getting this type of info from?

Quickload will estimate velocities with any cartridge, any barrel length, any bullet etc.

Just give me the specs you want compared and I'll post up what they say...

As an example, a 21" 308 at 59,000psi will push a 168 SMK to 2650
The same 21" barrel in 300wsm at 59,000psi will push the same bullet to 2950.
So, that's 300fps.
Every bullet is different...