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Sailormilan2
10-14-2013, 8:31 AM
When my son picked up his AR lower from our FFL, he got into a discussion with the dealer re Raddlock. The dealer told my son that he had talked to a DOJ Field agent re the Raddlock, because the Raddlock can be adjusted to work as a normal mag relase, not just a bullet button.
Reportedy, the DOJ Field Agent told my dealer that he cites anyone with a Raddlock, no matter if it is set for normal BB use or not.:eek:
So, my question is, if the Raddlock is okayed for CA use, how can the Field Agent do this? I can understand if the Raddlock is improperly set, but if it is properly set up, how is that considered illegal?

mofojoe
10-14-2013, 8:46 AM
I wouldn't worry about a thing. Who goes around checking bullet buttons anyways?? If you're really worried just get a regular bullet button and one of those magnets. If anyone ever does come around, ditch the magnet. Problem solved.

the86d
10-14-2013, 9:13 AM
How about just keep a regular mag-release in the butt-stock, or pistol grip?
60 second swap. ;)

cire raeb
10-14-2013, 10:48 AM
Unless you make an effort, it is very difficult to distinguish a Raddlock from a regular bullet button.

sholling
10-14-2013, 11:24 AM
The problem with the Raddlock is that an unscrupulous LEO just might take it upon his/herself to adjust it to be out of compliance after taking it into evidence or even during an inspection. You'd be safe with 98% of officers (because at least that percentage are ethical professionals) but there is always that 1-2% that will happily f-your life to get a felony bust in their file or just out of boredom or because they are having a bad day.

violentmouse
10-14-2013, 11:51 AM
About that Raddlock...... A friend of mine bought a couple for his AR builds and I noticed that the instructions clearly state:

(this is copied directly from the Raddlock website also)
Please Read This:
Raddlock Lock Kit has Not been approved by CA DOJ!

I did some asking and the truth is, it's risky. Only because as previously stated an unethical person might easily change the state of the device. For that reason alone I prefer to use a bullet button device that has only one state, CA LEGAL at all times.

but again, as always I am not a lawyer, and your mileage may vary. Either way do your best to stay safe in the field.

fr33domfightr
10-14-2013, 12:24 PM
And looking on other sites that sell the Bullet Button, we read this:

"The Bullet Button has not yet been approved by the California DOJ."

I don't think you'll find the DOJ approve anything because they like the law to be ambiguous, it would seem.

But as sholling stated, perhaps a bullet button that can't be manipulated is a legally safer device.

dls
10-14-2013, 12:57 PM
You need a tool to adjust it befor it will release a mag,so it should save lives in Ca..

I use one without fear, I'm a rebel like that.

JaMail
10-14-2013, 1:21 PM
if a cop wants to screw with you to the point of altering evidence, they will do it regardless, as stated its a minute or two to change out a BB with a standard mag release.

jben
10-14-2013, 1:40 PM
I wouldn't worry about a thing. Who goes around checking bullet buttons anyways?? If you're really worried just get a regular bullet button and one of those magnets. If anyone ever does come around, ditch the magnet. Problem solved.

Why would you encourage someone to break the law:facepalm:

Eljay
10-14-2013, 1:50 PM
I always imagined somebody screwing around with it in the evidence room and accidentally leaving it on the wrong setting.

cabinetguy
10-14-2013, 2:29 PM
About that Raddlock...... A friend of mine bought a couple for his AR builds and I noticed that the instructions clearly state:

(this is copied directly from the Raddlock website also)
Please Read This:
Raddlock Lock Kit has Not been approved by CA DOJ!

I did some asking and the truth is, it's risky. Only because as previously stated an unethical person might easily change the state of the device. For that reason alone I prefer to use a bullet button device that has only one state, CA LEGAL at all times.

but again, as always I am not a lawyer, and your mileage may vary. Either way do your best to stay safe in the field.

There is no device that is approved by the CA DOJ, raddlock, prince 50 or others.

Hoooper
10-14-2013, 3:28 PM
the bullet button if too loose can do the same thing, so its no difference. Would be curious to hear from this supposed DOJ agent what citation/arrest he is doling out.

MajorSideburns
10-16-2013, 8:35 AM
it's not considered illegal unless you can operate the mag release without a tool. that is the black and white writing of the law. so if you have the raddlock in the position where it functions as a finger pushable mag release button while in california, that is illegal. there is NO writing in the law that says, "if a mag release normally requires a tool but can be configured to not require a tool...." requires a tool is REQUIRES a tool, regardless of permanence. that being said, obviously in the real world a more permanent modification is less risk for reasons mentioned above. (unscrupulous LEO doing shady things to your rifle after confiscating it). but they could just as easily take a multitool and pull out your regular bullet button, and the effect would be the same. so is the gamble in the PRC...

supersonic
10-20-2013, 8:10 PM
I wouldn't worry about a thing. Who goes around checking bullet buttons anyways?? If you're really worried just get a regular bullet button and one of those magnets. If anyone ever does come around, ditch the magnet. Problem solved.

How long have you been here? If you had a brain in your head, you would never have openly posted a suggestion that could put someone in prison. If you had half-a-brain, you'd delete that ridiculous post, period (even though it's already been quoted by others).

If I see yours and the "quoters" (one being myself) deleting these, I will follow suit.

Stupid, stupid thing to post.....just can't get over it.:facepalm:

bwiese
10-21-2013, 5:02 AM
I always imagined somebody screwing around with it in the evidence room and accidentally leaving it on the wrong setting.

You're not far off the mark.

Some drama has been 'induced' a few times in the pre-seizure cop "trunk lid" analysis" of such guns - and the playing about may have loosened (inadvertently thru a poor design of a given non-Prince50 brand) the device, or they may have pried and damaged the device with a tool (while being a tool ;-) ) The latter is better & easier to legally compensate for ...

dchang0
10-21-2013, 10:15 AM
Why would you encourage someone to break the law:facepalm:

Because the law is wrong. Yes, laws can be (morally, ethically and legally) wrong. These gun control laws in Calif. very obviously are infringements on the 2nd Amendment and on our natural right to self defense.

That said, yes, the suggester should have indicated in his post that doing so could get the suggestee in trouble with the current law, even if the current law is wrong. The reason is: there is a big difference between committing civil disobedience oneself (which takes on the risk of being jailed on oneself) versus instructing someone else to commit civil disobedience (put the risk of being jailed on the other person).

Civil disobedience doesn't have to be a big media production like Occupy Wall St. Look at the legalized-marijuana movement. For years, they tried the staged protests, etc. But in the end, it won because so many ordinary Americans were growing smoking pot while cops were looking the other way that the politicians eventually had to accept that "community standards" had changed and changed the laws to match.

It'd be awesome if that were to become true of mag locks. Not likely, but still possible... It would take every gun owner in the state to routinely use un-locked mag locks to do it...

Packy14
10-21-2013, 10:34 AM
If and when a boy in blue wants to investigate my Raddlock equipped AR, you better believe I will

1. Not consent to search.
2. Record everything via video and/or sound.
3. Sue the F out of the agency involved.

VendetAR
10-22-2013, 6:32 PM
Two words,

WONDER

WRENCH.

If you ask the right people, it will make your rifle full auto too* :)



*any politician that watched the Youtube video of it in use.

JDay
10-22-2013, 7:39 PM
You're not far off the mark.

Some drama has been 'induced' a few times in the pre-seizure cop "trunk lid" analysis" of such guns - and the playing about may have loosened (inadvertently thru a poor design of a given non-Prince50 brand) the device, or they may have pried and damaged the device with a tool (while being a tool ;-) ) The latter is better & easier to legally compensate for ...

I put loctite on my raddlock to avoid ever having this issue. If I ever take that rifle out of state I just need to apply a little heat with a torch in order to turn the screw.

Civil disobedience doesn't have to be a big media production like Occupy Wall St. Look at the legalized-marijuana movement. For years, they tried the staged protests, etc. But in the end, it won because so many ordinary Americans were growing smoking pot while cops were looking the other way that the politicians eventually had to accept that "community standards" had changed and changed the laws to match.

Proposition 215 became law due to the people voting. The politicians did not write that law.

jben
10-22-2013, 8:28 PM
Because the law is wrong. Yes, laws can be (morally, ethically and legally) wrong. These gun control laws in Calif. very obviously are infringements on the 2nd Amendment and on our natural right to self defense.

That said, yes, the suggester should have indicated in his post that doing so could get the suggestee in trouble with the current law, even if the current law is wrong. The reason is: there is a big difference between committing civil disobedience oneself (which takes on the risk of being jailed on oneself) versus instructing someone else to commit civil disobedience (put the risk of being jailed on the other person).

Civil disobedience doesn't have to be a big media production like Occupy Wall St. Look at the legalized-marijuana movement. For years, they tried the staged protests, etc. But in the end, it won because so many ordinary Americans were growing smoking pot while cops were looking the other way that the politicians eventually had to accept that "community standards" had changed and changed the laws to match.

It'd be awesome if that were to become true of mag locks. Not likely, but still possible... It would take every gun owner in the state to routinely use un-locked mag locks to do it...


Nothing you said changes the validity of my post. To the best of my knowledge this forum does not advocate breaking the law.

Maybe you should do a little search on SB47 and see where the mag tools have taken us.

choaderboy2
10-22-2013, 10:21 PM
I am pretty sure that the OEM Bullet buttons on new guns are not approved by any agency either.

SGVDANNY
10-23-2013, 4:55 PM
How many people use these? Anyone ever really had a problem?


Sent from iPhone.

JDay
10-24-2013, 8:01 AM
How many people use these? Anyone ever really had a problem?


Sent from iPhone.

The only problem I had was with one on a used AR I bought. The screw wouldn't stay tight so I put a little loctite on it. I think the previous owner put a dedicated .22 upper on it and enabled the mag release often though, that screw looked a bit worn.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

huntercf
10-24-2013, 7:41 PM
I have a raddlock on my AR pistol and when the DOJ inspected it (for registration) the agent said it was legal and good to go.

SGVDANNY
10-25-2013, 4:00 PM
I have a raddlock on my AR pistol and when the DOJ inspected it (for registration) the agent said it was legal and good to go.

Thanks.


Sent from iPhone.

JDay
10-25-2013, 4:48 PM
I have a raddlock on my AR pistol and when the DOJ inspected it (for registration) the agent said it was legal and good to go.

Since when does the DOJ inspect pistols during registration? Last I checked you just send in a form when you register an 80% pistol build.

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