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rue
01-23-2008, 7:08 PM
I met up with another Calguns member at a local range today and I took along my neighbor whose a bored disabled vet. After we left the range we're on this country road crusing back to town and see a Sheriff passing us going the other way. I notice immediately the cruiser pulls over and flips around starts trying to catch up to us. I'm not too worried but I had my OLL in the trunk with the other guns and I thought no big deal just say "I have nothing illegal in the car" and " I do not consent to a search" if the time comes. I didn't think it would even come to that actually but that was the plan. I see the lights come on behind me and I pull to the shoulder and stop.
The sheriff comes up to the car and starts telling me she pulled me over because my lights are off and it's raining and she couldn't see me as she came up on me(going the other way no doubt and in no danger of hitting me and we're in the country but OOK).
I say okay and she asks for all my paperwork. I fumble around trying to find my reg. paper and she runs my license or whatever. As I'm trying to find my reg. she asks "Where are you guys coming from?" This is where it gets bad. My stupid neighbor opens his trap and says, "From the shooting range back there!" What do you think the next question was?
"You have any guns in the car?" she asks. Before I can even say anything he says, "oh yeah they're in the trunk".
I could have died right there....Then she asked, "Sooo whatcha shooting today?" I say nothing special officer just plinkin.
She asks some more questions then asks if I have any loaded guns in the pass. area.
I say, "oh no that's illegal officer".
She said some other stuff and said turn on those lights and handed me my stuff back and I drove away.
The whole way back I'm telling the neighbor to not talk anymore if we get pulled over. He says I'm "paranoid" and laughed at me.
I don't think he's ever coming with me again.

Shotgun Man
01-23-2008, 7:15 PM
A miss is as good as a mile, right?

Thankfully, you were not subjected to further inconvenience.

Regarding your friend, he probably knew no better, but if you told him to shut up and he ignored your commands, I can see how he would be unwelcome in the future simply because he cannot be relied upon.

We all have friends like that.

Satex
01-23-2008, 7:18 PM
Next time before you take him shooting, make him sigh a statement that if he opens his trap and gets you in trouble, he will cover 100% of the legal expenses. That should keep his trap shut real good!

BillCA
01-23-2008, 7:22 PM
Nope... he would have just un-invited himself from any further range trips. Unless he agrees to button his yap in the future. It's not his place to provide information to the cops when it's your driving record that it could impact. If the deputy had asked if you knew it was now law to turn on your lights with your wipers and your friend had spouted out "yeah, but we think it's a stupid law" it could have gotten you a ticket.

But don't feel too bad. A LEO friend of mine was going back east to visit his (terminally) ill mother. His wife, rather than drop him off at the airport, accompanied him inside, let him check his luggage and escorted him to the TSA Jokepoint, stopping within about 6-feet of a TSA agent. She hands him his laptop case, kisses him and then says in her very clear voice "Are you taking your GUN on the airplane too?" :eek: He looked over and every TSA agent was staring straight at him. He has told her that she will never again go inside the airport with him unless she will be travelling. :mad:

(According to him, those UFO aliens & their electronic anal probes now work for the TSA! :shock:)

jkasandiego
01-23-2008, 7:37 PM
Sheriff is hitting on you. Is she a cutie??:)

capo
01-23-2008, 7:46 PM
If a passenger in my car ever opens his or her mouth when I am pulled over, said passenger will have to hitch a ride with the police afterwards, because I'm kicking them out.

Max-the-Silent
01-23-2008, 7:49 PM
Nope... he would have just un-invited himself from any further range trips. Unless he agrees to button his yap in the future. It's not his place to provide information to the cops when it's your driving record that it could impact. If the deputy had asked if you knew it was now law to turn on your lights with your wipers and your friend had spouted out "yeah, but we think it's a stupid law" it could have gotten you a ticket.

But don't feel too bad. A LEO friend of mine was going back east to visit his (terminally) ill mother. His wife, rather than drop him off at the airport, accompanied him inside, let him check his luggage and escorted him to the TSA Jokepoint, stopping within about 6-feet of a TSA agent. She hands him his laptop case, kisses him and then says in her very clear voice "Are you taking your GUN on the airplane too?" :eek: He looked over and every TSA agent was staring straight at him. He has told her that she will never again go inside the airport with him unless she will be travelling. :mad:

(According to him, those UFO aliens & their electronic anal probes now work for the TSA! :shock:)

I've had interesting experiences flying with firearms on departmental business, with paperwork.

TSA employees have problems with many things, and reading comprehension is one of them.

Pthfndr
01-23-2008, 7:52 PM
What range were you shooting at today?

lawnrevenge
01-23-2008, 7:59 PM
You should have told the officer that you were afraid she'd think it's flash friday and so you had them off (or was she good looking? I've yet to meet a good looking female cop...)

Creeping Incrementalism
01-23-2008, 8:15 PM
If a passenger in my car ever opens his or her mouth when I am pulled over, said passenger will have to hitch a ride with the police afterwards, because I'm kicking them out.

I would too, but thankfully, I don't know anyone stupid enough to open their mouths un-solicited to the cops as a passenger. That's just common sense that everyone who doesn't instinctually know learns soon after the first of their friends starts to drive.

Regarding turning your lights on in the rain--yet another stupid law that will have about .000001% of its use go to safety, and 99.99999% as a BS excuse by cops to pull people over, and/or raise revenue.

Getting your ducks in a row in your car is sure critical to being a gun owner in this state. When did that law that allows L.E. to inspect your guns in your car get passed anyway? Damn that is a terrible law.

Sgt Raven
01-23-2008, 9:13 PM
I would too, but thankfully, I don't know anyone stupid enough to open their mouths un-solicited to the cops as a passenger. That's just common sense that everyone who doesn't instinctually know learns soon after the first of their friends starts to drive.

Regarding turning your lights on in the rain--yet another stupid law that will have about .000001% of its use go to safety, and 99.99999% as a BS excuse by cops to pull people over, and/or raise revenue.
Getting your ducks in a row in your car is sure critical to being a gun owner in this state. When did that law that allows L.E. to inspect your guns in your car get passed anyway? Damn that is a terrible law.

If you’re dumb enough that you need a law to understand that having your lights on when it’s raining is a good idea, then you deserve the TICKET.

artherd
01-23-2008, 9:23 PM
Did you know that under the current law; if you use your washers to clean your windshield, you must have your headlights on; EVEN IF IT IS BROAD DAYLIGHT?

Still like it?

Shotgun Man
01-23-2008, 9:45 PM
Did you know that under the current law; if you use your washers to clean your windshield, you must have your headlights on; EVEN IF IT IS BROAD DAYLIGHT?

Still like it?


A bold statement such as that requires explanation. Why?

M. Sage
01-23-2008, 10:05 PM
Did you know that under the current law; if you use your washers to clean your windshield, you must have your headlights on; EVEN IF IT IS BROAD DAYLIGHT?

Still like it?

No, not at all. The law says that if the weather warrants actions SUCH AS your wipers be on, then your headlights should be, too.

2) Operated during darkness, or inclement weather, or both, with at least two lighted headlamps that comply with paragraph (1).

(b) As used in paragraph (2) of subdivision (a), “inclement weather” is a weather condition that is either of the following:

(1) A condition that prevents a driver of a motor vehicle from clearly discerning a person or another motor vehicle on the highway from a distance of 1,000 feet.

(2) A condition requiring the windshield wipers to be in continuous use due to rain, mist, snow, fog, or other precipitation or atmospheric moisture.( )3

Added Sec. 2, Ch. 415, Stats. 2004. Effectve January 1, 2005. Operative July 1, 2005.
Amended Sec. 9, Ch. 311, Stats. 2006. Effective January 1, 2007.
The 2006 amendment added the italicized material, and at the point(s) indicated, deleted the following:

1. “During darkness and inclement weather, a motor vehicle, other than a motorcycle, shall be equipped”
2. “lighted”
3. “(c) This section shall become operative on July 1, 2005.


It's not linked to wiper useage, not directly, and not like you think. It's linked to precipitation and visibility.

I wonder if "continuous useage" means the intermittent setting... Too many people here use "low" or even "high" when conditions warrant intermittent.

I hope I don't ever get pulled over for not turning on my lights to wash my windshield... I'd be forced to literally laugh in someone's face.

Jicko
01-23-2008, 10:08 PM
My stupid neighbor opens his trap and says, "From the shooting range back there!" What do you think the next question was?
"You have any guns in the car?" she asks. Before I can even say anything he says, "oh yeah they're in the trunk".

In this situation, the first thing to do is, tell everyone in the car not to say anything, and just let YOU do all the talking.

rue
01-23-2008, 10:09 PM
Hi everyone,
To answer some of the questions it was the yolo sportsman club outside Davis,
I forgot about that new law but I knew about it. I simply forgot to turn them on.
She was actually pretty hot and nice about everything (I didn't get the ticket) but she did turn up the heat when my dumbass neighbor blurted out we just left the range.
What an idiot. I just explained the whole deal on the way to the range about some LEO's not knowing the law with BB's and what not and how some people have been thrown in jail for them. I assumed an ex vietnam vet would know when to shut up when questioned.
As we drove off he said, "what were you going to say to here if I didn't say we came from the range?" I said ANYTHING!
Actually I could have said I was meeting a friend for lunch or something vague who cares the point is not to let on ANYTHING is in the car....
I finally answered before him when she asked what we were shooting which I felt was a direct fishing question on her part.

We need to add to that thread about transporting OLL's to include do not travel with morons who don't know how to shut up when pulled over.
I actually told him after we got back that if she would have searched to make sure the guns were "safe" in my trunk I would have told her the OLL is his...LMAO "it's his "assault weapon officer!", "so are you single?" as he's cuffed in the back of her car..

lawnrevenge
01-23-2008, 10:10 PM
Too many people here use "low" or even "high" when conditions warrant intermittent.
Some people don't have "intermittent" Sad that my new truck (base '08 Tacoma) has the same wiper ability of my '69 bug.

M. Sage
01-23-2008, 10:16 PM
Some people don't have "intermittent" Sad that my new truck (base '08 Tacoma) has the same wiper ability of my '69 bug.

This is true, but most at least have "mist." Much better than having your wipers swinging back and forth at 80 beats a minute. :p

I seriously see TONS of people around here running with their wipers on high in a very light mist.

lawnrevenge
01-23-2008, 10:27 PM
I seriously see TONS of people around here running with their wipers on high in a very light mist.

True, people don't seem to realize that (especially in day time) you don't need to run the wipers that much. I drove my bug with broken wipers for a year. Finally fixed them when I spent an hour waiting for the rain to lighten up enough to drive home.

savageevo
01-23-2008, 10:44 PM
after that, you should of kicked your passenger out of the car and walk home in the rain.:90::gene:

mcubed4130
01-23-2008, 11:06 PM
http://tinyurl.com/3yaavf - this little video - starting at about 2:15 comes to mind.

:D

-M3

Rumpled
01-23-2008, 11:28 PM
has the same wiper ability of my '69 bug.

You mean your arm hanging out the window with a rag?
That's what my '63 had.

ETD1010
01-23-2008, 11:35 PM
I think driving in the rain w/o headlights is as dangerous as driving at night w/o headlights. We just had a heavy bout of rain here, and I can't tell you how a gray/medium colored car blends into the mist on a freeway or any road where travel is above 30 mph. It's common sense to use headlights in the rain, whether or not a law makes you do it. Yes, I hate some of the BS crap they have on the books... but it's like arguing that you shouldn't be FORCED to put your headlights on at night... so if you believe that too.. well... then I guess there's nothing else to say.


re: the thread topic. I'm glad she was cool about the gun thing.... I'd have smacked anyone of my friends afterwards (though they'd still be a friend). :p

BlackReef
01-23-2008, 11:38 PM
What is the proper thing to say if you ARE coming home from the range and an Officer asks where you are coming from? I came up with sporting activities but damn I need some expert advice.

Assuming your rifle is in a locked case, the officer still has no probable cause for a search even if you said you have rifles and you are coming from the range, correct?

bwiese
01-23-2008, 11:46 PM
IThe whole way back I'm telling the neighbor to not talk anymore if we get pulled over. He says I'm "paranoid" and laughed at me.
I don't think he's ever coming with me again.

He was just plain rude. If he weren't a vet etc he'd have walked home if it were me.

thedrickel
01-24-2008, 12:05 AM
http://tinyurl.com/3yaavf - this little video - starting at about 2:15 comes to mind.

:D

-M3



Damn, and I've been wasting years watching COPS on TV! I could've learned everything I need to know from C Rock :)

ivanimal
01-24-2008, 12:45 AM
I look forward to a day when there is no question as to the legality of our CA configured rifles. That day will come.

DedEye
01-24-2008, 12:57 AM
was the sheriff cute

The only question I care about and the first one that came to mind :43:.

sephy
01-24-2008, 8:13 AM
Hey well at least it turned out alright. I totally thought that was your dad haha. That does sound like something my dad would do though... he's one of those people who starts using big words when the police are knocking at his window. Really gets old because (unwelcome) encounters with the law just seem to go so much smoother when you don't offer up much information.

Res
01-24-2008, 9:31 AM
http://tinyurl.com/3yaavf - this little video - starting at about 2:15 comes to mind.

:D

-M3

LoL

Off topic, but in frame 3:04

Rock Island 1911 = Not A Ticket

1911su16b870
01-24-2008, 9:48 AM
was the sheriff cute

:driving: :tt1: :rofl:

Rob P.
01-24-2008, 9:51 AM
What is the proper thing to say if you ARE coming home from the range and an Officer asks where you are coming from? I came up with sporting activities but damn I need some expert advice.

Assuming your rifle is in a locked case, the officer still has no probable cause for a search even if you said you have rifles and you are coming from the range, correct?

If LEO asks you about your PERSONAL business, just don't say anything. There's nothing illegal about "coming from" or "going to" and the question is just fishing for information.

Even the ubiquitous "how are you?" question is FISHING (looking for "upset" or "angry" or "tired" or.... as a basis for further questioning in search of something "wrong" or illegal.)

Dead silence is an answer of "none of your dam business" without being impolite. And, it's amazing how hard of hearing you can and should be when asked questions by law enforcement.

Or just ask them a question in response to their question. Something like: "Isn't it OK to just be going for lunch?"

sloguy
01-24-2008, 10:22 AM
I assumed an ex vietnam vet would know when to shut up when questioned.

never assume.




(warning- video has bad language)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCCjFbFXn8

berg
01-24-2008, 2:25 PM
never assume.




(warning- video has bad language)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCCjFbFXn8

Huh? Why post a link to a video that someone already posted about a few replies ahead of yours?

CitaDeL
01-24-2008, 2:53 PM
He was just plain rude. If he weren't a vet etc he'd have walked home if it were me.

+1 on that, and I would have told him so. If I have to 'breif' everyone in the car, I will... but jeeze- the passenger only stopped short of requesting a cavity search for all involved.

ghettoshecky
01-24-2008, 2:54 PM
and this is why before I even start the ignition I tell all my friends to if we get pulled over let me do all the talking. I tell them if an officer ask you something just say "there is nothing illegal in the car" and keep at that.

11Z50
01-24-2008, 3:45 PM
It's an interesting situation when a LEO asks you where you are coming from or going to on a traffic stop. Could be just innocent small talk, or the infamous "fishing expedition". Even though there is nothing illegal in the vehicle, I think I'd respond with a geographic location, ie if the range is near West Sacramento, I 'd just say that. On a simple traffic stop, an LEO isn't justified in going much further into your activities or future plans.

I don't want to come off anti-LEO here, but even though you are completely legal and have nothing to hide, it's a real bummer to have an over-zealous copper go thru all your stuff, toss your car, detain you for a hour, call for back-up and make a big scene, and then hand you back your license and say "Have a nice day."

FlyingPen
01-24-2008, 4:03 PM
I don't want to come off anti-LEO here, but even though you are completely legal and have nothing to hide, it's a real bummer to have an over-zealous copper go thru all your stuff, toss your car, detain you for a hour, call for back-up and make a big scene, and then hand you back your license and say "Have a nice day."

Putting your car back together on the side of a busy highway after an extremely thorough search is also not fun, especially in the dark.

lawnrevenge
01-24-2008, 6:21 PM
You mean your arm hanging out the window with a rag?
That's what my '63 had.
Lol.
I only had those wipers for a while. I got around to fixing them eventually.

Never assume the cop is just being polite. I was stopped a while back (I've posted about it before) and the cop saw my HSC under my license. Asked me where I was coming from (i.e. school, court house, some other illegal place) and then asked if I had any guns in the car.

Hypothetically if I had said "school" and then without thinking had a gun in the car and said so I could have ended up sharing a cell with Gunkid. Always remember that the Cop is working and his job is to (cough cough) uphold the law :rolleyes: so as a valued government employee he's constantly looking for new ways to increase productivity.;)

scrat
01-24-2008, 7:52 PM
ok i have the best response of this here post.

Let me guess the next time you take your neighbor shooting he will have a new job.

like the one below

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/scratm3/militarycomplaining.jpg

Glock22Fan
01-25-2008, 11:28 AM
I got pulled over for doing 72 in a 40 zone (very sleepy rural area). Explained that I was fetching Benadryl for my wife who was having a bad allergic reaction and I was scared she was going into anaphylactic shock. Cop asked if I was local (yes) and could he see my CDL. Got out my wallet and opened it. Cop said don't bother to get it out, just show me the open wallet, which I did. Cop noticed my Utah CCW permit, said "Go to Utah a lot, do you?", then said "Get that stuff home."

Creeping Incrementalism
01-27-2008, 3:30 AM
If you’re dumb enough that you need a law to understand that having your lights on when it’s raining is a good idea, then you deserve the TICKET.

If your eyes are bad enough to have trouble seeing cars in the rain, you shouldn't be driving at all. Especially considering how dim tail lights (not break lights) are in the daytime....

If needing lights on in the rain were so basic to safety, they would have been required decades ago.

I think driving in the rain w/o headlights is as dangerous as driving at night w/o headlights.

Hey nimrod, next time you are driving at night, try turning your headlights off. (I do this from time to time for a few seconds for a cheap thrill) Then tell me its anything light driving without your lights on in the rain during the day.

Sgt Raven
01-27-2008, 11:01 AM
If your eyes are bad enough to have trouble seeing cars in the rain, you shouldn't be driving at all. Especially considering how dim tail lights (not break lights) are in the daytime....

If needing lights on in the rain were so basic to safety, they would have been required decades ago.



Hey nimrod, next time you are driving at night, try turning your headlights off. (I do this from time to time for a few seconds for a cheap thrill) Then tell me its anything light driving without your lights on in the rain during the day.

Try seeing cars when your 18 tires are throwing spray all over the place and your mirrors are covered with rain. I'd bet you'd be on here throwing a HISSY fit about the big rig that just cut you off, WHEN THEY COULDN'T SEE YOU. :90: :eek: :rolleyes:

ViPER395
01-27-2008, 11:07 AM
I think the lights in the rain thing is nice.

Mine are automatic, so if it's bright and rainy I have to make sure they're on. If its dim and rainy then i'm good to go.

My problem is that i've seen Sac Cty Sheriffs driving in the rain with no headlights on :mad:. WTF?

I've also seen the Sac Cty garbage trucks running in the rain w/o headlights as well.. just Friday on Grant Line Rd.

762cavalier
01-27-2008, 11:11 AM
My problem is that i've seen Sac Cty Sheriffs driving in the rain with no headlights on . WTF?


Well, of course! remember they are specially trained to handle these dangerous situations. Much like those "unsafe" handguns they can buy that we can't.:rolleyes:

11Z50
01-27-2008, 11:13 AM
I got pulled over for doing 72 in a 40 zone (very sleepy rural area). Explained that I was fetching Benadryl for my wife who was having a bad allergic reaction and I was scared she was going into anaphylactic shock. Cop asked if I was local (yes) and could he see my CDL. Got out my wallet and opened it. Cop said don't bother to get it out, just show me the open wallet, which I did. Cop noticed my Utah CCW permit, said "Go to Utah a lot, do you?", then said "Get that stuff home."

There are some good coppers still out on the streets! +1 to that LEO.

Bobshouse
01-27-2008, 12:00 PM
Actually, you should probably thank your neighbor for getting you out of that ticket. Sounds like he got the officer to open up and relax.

You have to remember, most police are gun nuts also. :D

ETD1010
01-27-2008, 1:34 PM
Hey nimrod, next time you are driving at night, try turning your headlights off. (I do this from time to time for a few seconds for a cheap thrill) Then tell me its anything light driving without your lights on in the rain during the day.

wow, someone has maturity issues. I'm not quite the nimrod, but having your lights on at night isn't so much used for YOU to see... it's for others to see YOU.

There are usually plenty of street lights in most places to see the road and such, but needing to see other cars is the issue. Why do you think 95%+ of motorcycles ride with their lights on 24/7? It's so the car drivers can see them. There are times when the rain IS bad enough that NO ONE SHOULD (should being the keyword) be on the road, but that doesn't' mean everyone is going to stop, pull over and wait it out. Having your lights on increases visibility for the other drivers... not you...

This relates to driving in the fog as well. I grew up in Tule fog, and I can tell you for a fact that other people's lights make it easier to spot them. Why some feel that this has to be such a heated issue is really kind of confusing.

Back on topic: I'm not sure how I'd feel answering the question "where are you coming from?" I mean, I KNOW it's my right to say "that's not important here, why did you pull me over?" But I know cops who would, then, go on a power trip and make me get out of the car while they cuff me, sit me down and then "persuade" me to give them permission or else they'll arrest me for something.. YES, that would be WRONG, and I could fight it.... but then I'd have to have the $$ and time to fight it.... btw-- this happened to my friend. They pulled him over with expired tags and say "give us permission to search your car or we're going to tow it." That not exactly a fair choice. . . but he didn't have the $$ to get it out of the impound, so why would he refuse? So frustrating.....

rue
01-27-2008, 1:43 PM
Well, of course! remember they are specially trained to handle these dangerous situations. Much like those "unsafe" handguns they can buy that we can't.:rolleyes:

Actually last year a Sac PD anti gang unit officer slammed into the back of my car last year when it was raining and I was stopped in traffic. So much for their special training. The worst part was when he got out came up to my car and asked to see my lic, reg, insurance. I said let me see yours first...:D

metalhead357
01-27-2008, 3:42 PM
It's an interesting situation when a LEO asks you where you are coming from or going to on a traffic stop. Could be just innocent small talk, or the infamous "fishing expedition".

I cant think of a time in any of my 1000 pull overs that I aint been asked that series of questions; where are you going? Where are you coming from.

The closest I got to being *cute* was with one response of simply pointing in the forward direction when asked where I was going. That stop didn't go to well:chris:

just4fun63
01-27-2008, 4:09 PM
Actually, you should probably thank your neighbor for getting you out of that ticket. Sounds like he got the officer to open up and relax.

You have to remember, most police are gun nuts also. :D

I spent a few years in LE (not LE now) one thing to keep in mind is silence or evasive answers will turn on a cops suspicious button faster that you can blink.

Oh and + 1 to gun nuts all of my LE friends are, most own OLLs Cali FALs.......

Stanze
01-27-2008, 4:51 PM
In this situation, the first thing to do is, tell everyone in the car not to say anything, and just let YOU do all the talking.

That's assuming they'll listen to you, some people feel confident in saying things and making decisions that will affect your future especially if they think they'll be let off the hook. LEO will separate everyone and lie/play head games to get someone to talk. It's not that hard.

I've been in these situations with people who can't shut their trap around LEOs (Or, practices poor gun safety despite my guidance). There is no second invite to the gun range from me.

To the OP, glad it didn't get ugly. I can't stand unconstitutional laws and the people who make/enforce them even though they swore to uphold and defend the constitution of the U.S..

ETA: To the OP, telling the cop that guns in the car is "illegal" is incorrect. It's perfectly CA-legal to have a unloaded rifle, shotgun or unconcealed unloaded handgun in the car.

FortCourageArmory
01-27-2008, 6:58 PM
I spent a few years in LE (not LE now) one thing to keep in mind is silence or evasive answers will turn on a cops suspicious button faster that you can blink.

So? I should give up my civil rights because a LEO might get suspicious?

tombinghamthegreat
01-27-2008, 7:23 PM
So? I should give up my civil rights because a LEO might get suspicious?

Individual rights should not be given up. Cops try pressure individuals to surrender their rights because they have nothing else and most people are unaware of the laws. Just tell the cops you have nothing illegal and you do not consent to any searches without a warrent.

M. Sage
01-27-2008, 7:37 PM
ETA: To the OP, telling the cop that guns in the car is "illegal" is incorrect. It's perfectly CA-legal to have a unloaded rifle, shotgun or unconcealed unloaded handgun in the car.

The question was about loaded guns.

She asks some more questions then asks if I have any loaded guns in the pass. area.
I say, "oh no that's illegal officer".

artherd
01-27-2008, 10:49 PM
No, not at all. The law says that if the weather warrants actions SUCH AS your wipers be on, then your headlights should be, too.

Looks like they've changed it as enacted, I stand corrected.

metalhead357
01-27-2008, 11:13 PM
I stand corrected.

Wouldn't that be moreover~ correctly wipered:D:p Either way it still is abass awkwards thing to be needed on the law books.

redneckshootist
01-28-2008, 12:34 AM
Hi everyone,
To answer some of the questions it was the yolo sportsman club outside Davis,
I forgot about that new law but I knew about it. I simply forgot to turn them on.
She was actually pretty hot and nice about everything (I didn't get the ticket) but she did turn up the heat when my dumbass neighbor blurted out we just left the range.
What an idiot. I just explained the whole deal on the way to the range about some LEO's not knowing the law with BB's and what not and how some people have been thrown in jail for them. I assumed an ex vietnam vet would know when to shut up when questioned.
As we drove off he said, "what were you going to say to here if I didn't say we came from the range?" I said ANYTHING!
Actually I could have said I was meeting a friend for lunch or something vague who cares the point is not to let on ANYTHING is in the car....
I finally answered before him when she asked what we were shooting which I felt was a direct fishing question on her part.

We need to add to that thread about transporting OLL's to include do not travel with morons who don't know how to shut up when pulled over.
I actually told him after we got back that if she would have searched to make sure the guns were "safe" in my trunk I would have told her the OLL is his...LMAO "it's his "assault weapon officer!", "so are you single?" as he's cuffed in the back of her car..

Yolo county huh, the sherrif deputys in that county are pretty cool and most are pro-gun. It deosnt suprise me that she was cool about it and didnt even give you a ticket. Ive had many cool experiences with yolo county cops.

eta34
01-28-2008, 8:16 AM
Individual rights should not be given up. Cops try pressure individuals to surrender their rights because they have nothing else and most people are unaware of the laws. Just tell the cops you have nothing illegal and you do not consent to any searches without a warrent.

LEO do not need a search warrant to search your vehicle. This has been covered before.

FortCourageArmory
01-28-2008, 9:24 AM
LEO do not need a search warrant to search your vehicle. This has been covered before.

No, but they need to be able to articulate probable cause to search. My refusal to allow a search or remaining silent DO NOT constitute PC. THAT has been covered as well.

metalhead357
01-28-2008, 9:24 AM
LEO do not need a search warrant to search your vehicle. This has been covered before.


ETA...you're right that its been covered before, but your statement is misleading. Cops DO need either consent or probable cause. Without either of those then they may NOT just simply search any vehicle unless they'd like to have all discovered whatevers thrown out in court in a heartbeat. Failing to give consent might get you sent on your way...or it might raise the level of the stop to a detention while ya' wait for a drug sniffing dog or a fellow officer to come driving up with an obtained warrent, or worst case- driver taken into custoday and vehicle impounded and then a search performed under the nefariousness guise of a *safekeeping* search.

Sniper3142
01-28-2008, 1:16 PM
No, but they need to be able to articulate probable cause to search. My refusal to allow a search or remaining silent DO NOT constitute PC. THAT has been covered as well.

BINGO!!!

Refusal to consent to a search DOES NOT give them Probable Cause to then search.

You have the RIGHT to refuse to let them search and exercising that RIGHT doesn't mean you are guilty of anything.

ViPER395
01-28-2008, 1:27 PM
BINGO!!!

Refusal to consent to a search DOES NOT give them Probable Cause to then search.

You have the RIGHT to refuse to let them search and exercising that RIGHT doesn't mean you are guilty of anything.


"If you've got nothing to hide, why can't I have permission to search?"

eta34
01-28-2008, 1:39 PM
Please don't skew my post. I never said that refusal to consent = probable cause. There is a very common misconception out there that a warrant is needed to search a vehicle. I simply addressed that. Nothing more.

eta34
01-28-2008, 1:40 PM
ETA...you're right that its been covered before, but your statement is misleading. Cops DO need either consent or probable cause. Without either of those then they may NOT just simply search any vehicle unless they'd like to have all discovered whatevers thrown out in court in a heartbeat. Failing to give consent might get you sent on your way...or it might raise the level of the stop to a detention while ya' wait for a drug sniffing dog or a fellow officer to come driving up with an obtained warrent, or worst case- driver taken into custoday and vehicle impounded and then a search performed under the nefariousness guise of a *safekeeping* search.

And again, if the officer has probable cause, he/she does not need to wait for "a fellow officer to come up with an obtained warrant."

Glock22Fan
01-28-2008, 3:01 PM
"If you've got nothing to hide, why can't I have permission to search?"


Because this isn't a police state.

Rob P.
01-28-2008, 3:19 PM
"If you've got nothing to hide, why can't I have permission to search?"

Because I don't want you pawing through my private stuff.

Because the law says that you have to have an articulable reason for wanting to paw through my stuff.

Because I don't want to be unnecessarily detained while you verify that I'm law abiding.

Because it's not your job to detain me and paw through my stuff just to be sure that I'm law abiding.

Because if I'm not a criminal you have NO AUTHORITY to try to intimidate or harass me into letting you paw through my stuff.

Because my wife objects to smelly drool, greasy fingerprints, and kooties on her clean underwear.

Because letting you paw through my stuff when my kids are present makes them think that their dad is a criminal, confuses them, and gives them nightmares.

Because I'm concerned about your financial wellbeing since if anything goes missing or is damaged after you've pawed through my private stuff I'm going to sue you.

Because all the time that you spend trying to convince me to voluntarily let you paw through my stuff is unnecessary and results in an extended unlawful detention sufficient to let me sue you.

I could go on, but I trust you get the point.

SchooBaka
01-28-2008, 4:37 PM
A local radio personallity who has since passed, once said he was asked for permission to search his vehicle, he answered by saying "do you mind if I search your car?" The leo let him go on his way. :D

On the trunkgun subject, and I hope I don't get lambasted for not using the search function, I have a 4runner. I've been considering getting a shotgun to keep in the vehicle. Of course I don't want to leave it in the open for all to see. I've been thinking of building a false floor in the back for extra storage. Would I be braking any laws if I kept a shotgun in the false floor as long as it wasnt loaded?
:hide:

artherd
01-28-2008, 4:57 PM
"If you've got nothing to hide, why can't I have permission to search?"

Tell ya what, give me your home address and I'll go search your place, then you can come back and search mine; otherwise we are done here.

artherd
01-28-2008, 5:01 PM
Would I be braking any laws if I kept a shotgun in the false floor as long as it wasnt loaded?
:hide:
No, infact you may even have shells in a 'sidesaddle' shell-holder (see People v Clark) and still have an 'unloaded' shotgun/rifle.

Do not carry a handgun in a vehicle unless it is secured in a 'locking' container.

Wil-c
01-29-2008, 12:05 AM
I spent a few years in LE (not LE now) one thing to keep in mind is silence or evasive answers will turn on a cops suspicious button faster that you can blink.

Oh and + 1 to gun nuts all of my LE friends are, most own OLLs Cali FALs.......

What then would you suggest is the best way to answer the question? I sure as heck am not going to tell them I just came from the range, given current attitudes I've observed this is an invitation to search, and/or press things further. I agree being evasive or silent is going to make them suspicious immediately, so what to tell them?

GuyW
01-29-2008, 12:34 AM
....Why do you think 95%+ of motorcycles ride with their lights on 24/7? It's so the car drivers can see them....

Uh, no - it's because it's been in the CA Vehicle Code since about 1971 (headlights wired with ignition).

Freaking drivers don't see us anyway...

BillCA
01-30-2008, 12:26 AM
And again, if the officer has probable cause, he/she does not need to wait for "a fellow officer to come up with an obtained warrant."

To the best of my knowledge, the officer is not required to articulate his PC to you before searching your vehicle.

pnkssbtz
01-30-2008, 1:40 AM
And again, if the officer has probable cause, he/she does not need to wait for "a fellow officer to come up with an obtained warrant."That is true. However they CAN wait for a fellow officer to help them provide probable cause...

Such as a drug sniffing dog...

eta34
01-30-2008, 2:30 AM
That is true. However they CAN wait for a fellow officer to help them provide probable cause...

Such as a drug sniffing dog...

Well, sort of. Case law has stated that an officer cannot delay a detention unnecessarily. For example, if the officer stops you for a traffic violation, the officer can detain you for the time it takes to write a citation, absent any additional circumstances. If the dog makes it during that time, the officer is good to go. However, it is unreasonable for an officer to detain you for 20 or 30 minutes waiting for a dog if no probable cause exists. Courts have ruled this invalid and suppressed evidence.

thefifthspeed
01-30-2008, 3:54 AM
However, it is unreasonable for an officer to detain you for 20 or 30 minutes waiting for a dog if no probable cause exists. Courts have ruled this invalid and suppressed evidence.

The grey area here is there is no defined set amount of time where it goes from reasonable to a detention.

bootcamp
01-30-2008, 8:27 AM
Sorry, but I think it was the natural responses from your friend that got you out of trouble.

Sniper3142
01-30-2008, 9:08 AM
Are these enough reasons for you Viper395?!?

:mad:


Because I don't want you pawing through my private stuff.

Because the law says that you have to have an articulable reason for wanting to paw through my stuff.

Because I don't want to be unnecessarily detained while you verify that I'm law abiding.

Because it's not your job to detain me and paw through my stuff just to be sure that I'm law abiding.

Because if I'm not a criminal you have NO AUTHORITY to try to intimidate or harass me into letting you paw through my stuff.

Because my wife objects to smelly drool, greasy fingerprints, and kooties on her clean underwear.

Because letting you paw through my stuff when my kids are present makes them think that their dad is a criminal, confuses them, and gives them nightmares.

Because I'm concerned about your financial wellbeing since if anything goes missing or is damaged after you've pawed through my private stuff I'm going to sue you.

Because all the time that you spend trying to convince me to voluntarily let you paw through my stuff is unnecessary and results in an extended unlawful detention sufficient to let me sue you.

I could go on, but I trust you get the point.

ETD1010
01-30-2008, 9:44 PM
Uh, no - it's because it's been in the CA Vehicle Code since about 1971 (headlights wired with ignition).

Freaking drivers don't see us anyway...

What I meant was, it's for them to be visible, not to see the road better in the day time. Same with cars and headlights in the rain.

BillCA
01-31-2008, 11:15 AM
The original question being something like "where are you coming from?" or "Where are you headed?"

What then would you suggest is the best way to answer the question? I sure as heck am not going to tell them I just came from the range, given current attitudes I've observed this is an invitation to search, and/or press things further. I agree being evasive or silent is going to make them suspicious immediately, so what to tell them?

We presume you're stopped for some minor traffic infraction and the officer has told you why he stopped you. Questions about your origin and/or destination, how often you travel that road, your occupation, etc. are not related to the stop. Answering the officer's questions is optional, according to the courts, so you need not answer any particular question. In LE circles, this is known as "fishing" (for clues, evidence) for probable cause.

My personal favorite, when asked about the origin/destination of my trip is to break out in a big grin and say "Do you have a license for this fishing expedition?" Most cops get it pretty quickly and move on with writing the ticket.

Others that I've heard used are:
- Oh, from some personal errands (or personal business)
- Am I required to answer that?
- Oh, from just up the road a piece.
- Is that a pertinent question for a traffic violation?
- I'm coming from right of center but in this state it feels like I'm to the right of Genghis Kahn.
- Alpha Centauri, but don't tell anyone I'm here, it's supposed to be a get-away vacation.
- I'd like to say Julia Robert's house, but we'd both die laughing.

If a cop gives you any static about "lying to an officer", remind him that impertinent questions deserve impertinent answers. If he objects to funny answers, instead of trying to make the situation fun & humorous, you can always just refuse to answer any questions.

Sgt Raven
01-31-2008, 11:57 AM
A funny story, which I wouldn’t believe if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes. :eek:

Back in ’76 I was riding with my brother driving up Jolon rd heading for HLMR where we both were stationed. My brother was driving at 75-80 MPH in a 55. We got pulled over by a CHP car with 2 officers in it. Officer #1 walked up and said to my brother “you were flying pretty low there; let me see your pilot’s license”. My brother looked over at me, then took his wallet out of his pocket and took out his multi engine, instrument, commercial ticket, and handed it to the officer. The officer looked at it and said “what’s this”, to which my brother answered, “That’s my pilot’s license”. Officer #1 gave my brother back his license and walked back to his car. Then officer #2 walked up and asked us what happened, as officer #1 wouldn’t tell him. My brother told officer #2 what had transpired. Then officer #2 told us we could leave, after telling us that it would take a long time for officer #1 to ‘live this down’. :p

artherd
01-31-2008, 9:58 PM
A “you were flying pretty low there; let me see your pilot’s license”.

Classic!