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JMP
10-13-2013, 2:06 PM
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SonofWWIIDI
10-13-2013, 2:30 PM
Armalite AR-30 in .338!
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/attachments/bolt-action-gallery/17240d1255834336-armalite-ar-30-img_7525.jpg

brando
10-13-2013, 3:14 PM
TRG-42 is hard to beat as a value. And keep in mind, .338LM is a pretty big commitment for a lot of folks moving up to shooting to a mile or more. Factory ammo is expensive, so being a skilled handloader will save you money and in the end help you get the most out of your rifle. But there is also support equipment you'll want to consider that'll up the cost a bit too.

If you're a bit money conscious, why not go with .300WM instead? It's far more economical to shoot and will still go farther than most people shoot accurately anyway.

TheShagg
10-13-2013, 3:16 PM
If you want to go build route, anything that bugholes.com sells is good (Southern Precision Rifles).

Surgeon, Stiller, Defiance.

postal
10-13-2013, 3:42 PM
My impressions fondling TRG and AI... they are pretty similar in class and quality with a slight edge to AI. Not double the price edge, but an edge.... Hard to go wrong with a TRG... they're NICE!

Hairball
10-13-2013, 4:36 PM
I own a AIAX 338 and a TRG does not come close in comparison. While the TRG makes a good bench rifle, the AI is built like a tank and can handle any shooting situation you may encounter. The TRG comes in at 11.7 pounds with a 26 inch barrel while the AI weighs 17.6 pounds with a 27 inch barrel. My first 20 rounds on the AI all fit within a one inch square at 100 yards with factory loads. Once you get your reloads dialed in this rifle is amazing. Yes they are expensive and when topped off with a Spuhr one piece mount, an atlas bipod and a S&B PMII optic, you are looking at around 14K. Yes that is a lot to spend but you will not be disappointed.

Spyder
10-13-2013, 5:13 PM
Think about getting a DTA with a Premier on top. Switch barrel design, and tool-less zero stop adjusting. So you can run one rifle with one scope (large initial investment) and have anything from 22-243 on up to 338 Lapua (Or 50BMG if you go with the big DTA) on one rifle, with one scope...and you can have zeros for multiple different loads without having to swap scopes or rezero. If you shoot a lot, and want a lot of variability, you can't beat it.

brando
10-13-2013, 5:19 PM
Doesn't come close? Your standards must be astronomical, because to the average shooter I think you'll find they are both in good company. AIs have gone through the roof pricewise in recent years but you could easily argue that not a whole lot has changed during that time other than refinements to the chassis.

I see a lot of people wanting to just dive right in to ELR shooting with .338LM rifles and they seem to either go the really, really economical route by getting a Savage 110BA and a cheap Burris scope, shooting the cheapest ammo they can get their hands on. Or on the flipside, dropping four times that amount on an AI AX w/ S&B. Will the later shoot better? Maybe; it all depends on the shooter. It's not like someone new to guitars is going to get much more out of a top of the line Fender vs a cheap starter guitar? My point in all of this is that there's a pragmatic middle ground to this stuff and the TRG falls right smack in the middle of that area, making it a good value choice. And honestly, there's nothing wrong with learning ELR shooting with a platform like that, over a few years, and figuring out what you like or dislike before moving up to something that's a better fit for your needs, or deciding that shooting to a mile isn't something you're really into and just sell the gear.

Incidentally, here's one TRG shooters experience in extreme conditions:
http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/183272-winter-shooting-sako-trg-22-observations-gear.html

russ69
10-13-2013, 5:46 PM
...they are expensive and when topped off with a Spuhr one piece mount, an atlas bipod and a S&B PMII optic, you are looking at around 14K...

14K? You can make the best custom rifle in the world for a lot less than 14K. God bless you and all that but I would guess the top 10 rifles at the National Championships (Long Range) cost less than half that.

Hairball
10-13-2013, 6:02 PM
Don't get me wrong, I believe the TRG is a very good rifle but I see these two examples of 338's as being built on different platforms for different applications. For design and strength of the system I would side with AI. The nice aspect of the TRG is the ability to carry it around all day and not get bogged down as you will with the AI. The TRG does fill a specific market; however, these types of forums are difficult to address when so many variations are considered. If I had a dollar for every time I have been out shooting and someone walks up and says "I was going to get an AI but I went with a Remington instead". I always want to follow that up with "what was the deciding factor" but I just let it go most of the time. Fortunately, I have been shooting rifles for over 40 years and I have purchased my fair share of sub standard performers. Reflecting back on my earlier days, its not that I could not appreciate the top end rifles, I just could not afford them. Either way, no worries. If the OP has the funds then an AI is a good choice but ELR shooting and larger calibers also carry a "cost of admission" that is not seen with many other calibers. A good optic may cost more than the TRG itself and it only continues to go up from there. As a side note, another nice caliber for a similar result is a 300 RUM. While barrel life is not great, the ballistics of the rounds are very similar. In the end, its nothing more than personal preference and what you expect from a specific platform. I also believe that for many, it boils down to a wants versus needs application. I don't make my living shooting and as I am quite content putting holes in targets at ELR, there are many less expensive options that would work just as well.

Hairball
10-13-2013, 6:09 PM
Why does someone always make that argument. Yes I can get a good rifle made that is accurate ( I have a few) for a lot less money but no matter what custom rifle it is, it is not an AI. Take your top 10 rifles and drop them in a lake or a mud bath and then see how well their actions and the rifle continue to function. Again, different rifle for different applications.

Fjold
10-13-2013, 6:27 PM
I don't want to carry a 17 and a half pound rifle.

chevy53guy
10-13-2013, 6:57 PM
I own a AIAX 338 and a TRG does not come close in comparison. While the TRG makes a good bench rifle, the AI is built like a tank and can handle any shooting situation you may encounter. The TRG comes in at 11.7 pounds with a 26 inch barrel while the AI weighs 17.6 pounds with a 27 inch barrel. My first 20 rounds on the AI all fit within a one inch square at 100 yards with factory loads. Once you get your reloads dialed in this rifle is amazing. Yes they are expensive and when topped off with a Spuhr one piece mount, an atlas bipod and a S&B PMII optic, you are looking at around 14K. Yes that is a lot to spend but you will not be disappointed.


Hairball have you shot out at Corona Sportsmen's Club?



Saw a AIAX 338 about a month or so ago with that setup or similar. Maybe just a coincidence.

diego-ted
10-13-2013, 7:51 PM
In this pic there are 3 338 Lapua's an AI, a Barret and a Savage BA 110, they all hit the mile marker, not one any more then the other!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/diego-ted/DSCN00017-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/diego-ted/media/DSCN00017-1.jpg.html)

Diego

Hairball
10-13-2013, 8:01 PM
I have not made it out to CSC. I go out east from my place and shoot in the middle of nowhere. The setup I have is rather common with this particular model as a number of folks do the same.

russ69
10-13-2013, 8:13 PM
Why does someone always make that argument. Yes I can get a good rifle made that is accurate ( I have a few) for a lot less money but no matter what custom rifle it is, it is not an AI. Take your top 10 rifles and drop them in a lake or a mud bath and then see how well their actions and the rifle continue to function. Again, different rifle for different applications.

Oh, sorry. I don't go out when it rains, too messy. I'm just a target shooter.

P.S. When/where do you go swimming with your rifle?

Cypriss32
10-13-2013, 8:40 PM
Why the **** would you drop your rifle in mud or the lake on purpose. That's just stupid. Accidents happen, but on purpose?

LynnJr
10-13-2013, 10:30 PM
I would have a custom rifle built using all the best components and a benchrest gunsmith such as Dave Tooley or Jim Borden for the machining.
A BAT or Stiller repeater action runs $1000-$1400 a Bartlein barrel runs $400 a Jewell trigger is $200 bases are $100 a trigger guard is $60
You can use a conventional stock in wod or fiberglass with all the bells and whistles for $1000 or a chassis for a couple hundred more.
On the scope its hard to beat the Nightforce 5.5-22x56
You won't have $5000 into it and with the $9000 you save you can go to one of the cat houses outside of Reno and hire a real looker as a gun bearer with benifits.

Exodus343
10-13-2013, 11:05 PM
SAKO TRG 42

ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTE!

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 8:59 AM
Thanks for the link.

desert dog
10-14-2013, 9:46 AM
TRG is a fantastic value for the quality you receive. The AI is a little better IMO, but pricy. You may get a deal on an AI right now though, as they are discontinuing the AE series.

But more importantly, let me ask you this; what is your level of experience shooting at extreme ranges? I only ask this because 338LM is not for the beginner IMHO.

* You must be an accomplished reloader to get enough time behind this round to be proficient without killing your bank account with $6 bullets.

* You must be an experienced shooter who understands natural point of aim and recoil control.

* Lastly, too many beginners think that 338 is some kind of magical laser that is immune to wind, atmospherics, and gravity. If you do not have the knowledge to make good hits at 1000 yards with .308, you will still struggle making long distance hits with 338 too. You will waste thousands of dollars in ammo attempting to walk rounds onto target rather than doing it right. 300 win mag is also a horrible beginner round, as the barrels are shot out at about 1000-1500 rounds. You could burn the barrel out just learning to shoot that caliber. 308 is the perfect starter caliber IMO.

But if you are an experienced shooter and roll your own loads, then the TRG or AI will make you very happy.

russ69
10-14-2013, 10:04 AM
If you do not have the knowledge to make good hits at 1000 yards with .308, you will still struggle making long distance hits with 338 too...

Good advice but can you swim with a 308 or take a mud bath with it?

milotrain
10-14-2013, 1:28 PM
If you do not have the knowledge to make good hits at 1000 yards with .308, you will still struggle making long distance hits with 338 too.

Yup yup. Also everything Sako makes is good from my limited research/experience. There are be things better, there are things cheaper.

I've never done any destructive weather tests with a bolt gun but I'd be SHOCKED if an AI had some sort of extra special mud ability compared to a Stiller, BAT action, or even a printed 700 action. It's a bolt gun, it's not a pocket watch.

Czsp-01-9mm
10-14-2013, 1:34 PM
Cz 550 magnum H.E.T

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 1:34 PM
I've never done any destructive weather tests with a bolt gun but I'd be SHOCKED if an AI had some sort of extra special mud ability compared to a Stiller, BAT action, or even a printed 700 action. It's a bolt gun, it's not a pocket watch.

The ONE thing AI has is it reliability. Its A HELL of a lot more reliable then custom actions. This has been proven over and over again. That's why they are used in LOTS of different theaters. Id trust my life with AI any day. Im NOT bashing custom actions, but when it comes to dirty and dusty world. Where my LIFE depends on it, Ill carry an AI any day.

milotrain
10-14-2013, 2:02 PM
The ONE thing AI has is it reliabilityCitation Needed. Its A HELL of a lot more reliable then custom actionsCitation Needed. This has been proven over and over againLink?. That's why they are used in LOTS of different theaters. Id trust my life with AI any day. Im NOT bashing custom actions, but when it comes to dirty and dusty world. Where my LIFE depends on it, Ill carry an AI any day.

I don't think the OP is talking about bringing it into the theatre of war.

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 2:21 PM
http://forum.snipershide.com/

Dont have time to search around and hold hands. My comment was to you, You clearly are wrong about the reliability of a AI VS custom actions.

Teaser:
http://military.discovery.com/tv-shows/ultimate-weapons/videos/ultimate-weapons-accuracy-international-awsm-sniper-rifle.htm


http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/183272-winter-shooting-sako-trg-22-observations-gear.html

JMP
10-14-2013, 2:24 PM
Good advice but can you swim with a 308 or take a mud bath with it?

That's a good point. I must confess that when the inside of my barrel is caked with mud and my bolt has rusted closed, I can only shoot a .308 at <1 MOA to 600 yards. Based on the information given, it sounds like both an AI or a TRG would be suitable (with a slight advantage to the AI) for the typical SHTF climate in the CA suburbs where a head shot at 1,500 yards is a matter of life and death.;) :D

russ69
10-14-2013, 2:36 PM
The ONE thing AI has is it reliability. Its A HELL of a lot more reliable then custom actions. This has been proven over and over again. That's why they are used in LOTS of different theaters. Id trust my life with AI any day. Im NOT bashing custom actions, but when it comes to dirty and dusty world. Where my LIFE depends on it, Ill carry an AI any day.

I would guess that there are a metric ton more Remington M24s and M40s in military service than there are AIs. Those are going to phased out and replaced with SASS M110s but not because of reliably or maintenance issues. I only have pampered target rifles so I'm not fully vested in this issue but if my life depends on a rifle...it's going to have a big magazine and a high rate of fire. Evidently the military agrees with me.

milotrain
10-14-2013, 2:41 PM
Dont have time to search around and hold hands. My comment was to you, You clearly are wrong about the reliability of a AI VS custom actions.

You made the claim, you have to support it.

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 2:48 PM
You made the claim, you have to support it.

My 2 little points I posted back it up enough.

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 2:49 PM
I would guess that there are a metric ton more Remington M24s and M40s in military service than there are AIs. Those are going to phased out and replaced with SASS M110s but not because of reliably or maintenance issues.

Thats fantastic, what does that have to do with ANYTHING that milo said or myself? Milo stated that a CUSTOM tight tolarance action is as reliable as a AI.

milotrain
10-14-2013, 3:04 PM
No, I said:
I've never done any destructive weather tests with a bolt gun but I'd be SHOCKED if an AI had some sort of extra special mud ability compared to a Stiller, BAT action, or even a printed 700 action. It's a bolt gun, it's not a pocket watch.

And the links you posted:
1. Is a discovery channel psudo doc. Well I work for NBC and make TV for a living so you'll forgive me if I don't give any weight to that bit of product placement.
2. Is a post on snipers hide where the TRG is as reliable as the AICS in the freezing snow.

BOTH links are about snow and ice, not dirt or water. Two random links with non scientific data does not back up the unanimous and universal statement of:
Its A HELL of a lot more reliable then custom actions. This has been proven over and over again.

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 3:10 PM
No, I said:


And the links you posted:
1. Is a discovery channel psudo doc. Well I work for NBC and make TV for a living so you'll forgive me if I don't give any weight to that bit of product placement.
2. Is a post on snipers hide where the TRG is as reliable as the AICS in the freezing snow.

BOTH links are about snow and ice, not dirt or water. Two random links with non scientific data does not back up the unanimous and universal statement of:

Dude, you wont like were this conversation goes. It goes to the typical fashion of:

Attack the poster because we spent 5,000 on our custom actions. It always ends with someone being banned and upset feeling by the guys with the custom actions. DO you want to go there still?

Do you know how and why AI designed there actions? They are MEANT for harsh wealther and steady abuse. Look at custom actions, they are meant for precision and super tight tolarance..........

desert dog
10-14-2013, 3:10 PM
That's a good point. I must confess that when the inside of my barrel is caked with mud and my bolt has rusted closed, I can only shoot a .308 at <1 MOA to 600 yards. Based on the information given, it sounds like both an AI or a TRG would be suitable (with a slight advantage to the AI) for the typical SHTF climate in the CA suburbs where a head shot at 1,500 yards is a matter of life and death.;) :D

:donatello: :laugh:

milotrain
10-14-2013, 3:21 PM
Dude, you wont like were this conversation goes. It goes to the typical fashion of:

Attack the poster because we spent 5,000 on our custom actions. It always ends with someone being banned and upset feeling by the guys with the custom actions. DO you want to go there still?

Do you know how and why AI designed there actions? They are MEANT for harsh wealther and steady abuse. Look at custom actions, they are meant for precision and super tight tolarance..........

I wasn't attacking anyone and I have no horse in this race. I simply stated that I'd be shocked if it functioned in an epically better way. You simply stated that it in fact did. I'm not quite sure where the drama comes in but maybe I don't take things personally enough.

I'm aware of what AI designed their actions to do, and what Stiller and BAT designed their actions to do. My understanding of mechanics and the functions of those actions suggests that there are certainly differences but not to the degree you stated, the fact that the military fields plenty of 700s additionally suggests that they are able to handle the environment.

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 3:25 PM
I wasn't attacking anyone and I have no horse in this race. I simply stated that I'd be shocked if it functioned in an epically better way. You simply stated that it in fact did. I'm not quite sure where the drama comes in but maybe I don't take things personally enough.

I'm aware of what AI designed their actions to do, and what Stiller and BAT designed their actions to do. My understanding of mechanics and the functions of those actions suggests that there are certainly differences but not to the degree you stated, the fact that the military fields plenty of 700s additionally suggests that they are able to handle the environment.

Function, NO
Accurate, NO

RELIABLE I SAID, Specifically. YES there rifles are MORE reliable.

http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/102547-ai-ae-rifles-worth-money.html

http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/21104-accuracy-international.html


Most of these posters have many rifles, custom actions and all that. They all say hands down AI is the most reliable rifle out there. TRG and SRS are in that same boat.

milotrain
10-14-2013, 3:31 PM
That is certainly very good anecdotal evidence.

russ69
10-14-2013, 3:49 PM
...the fact that the military fields plenty of 700s additionally suggests that they are able to handle the environment.

I agree, if the military adopts a firearm, you can know that it was completely field tested and deemed suitable for service. Then again, they may not swim or mud bathe with it like Hairball does with his AI.

brando
10-14-2013, 3:53 PM
The problem with internet forums is too many people think they know so much more than they actually know. Sigh.

Lucky Scott
10-14-2013, 4:31 PM
"hire a real looker as a gun bearer with benifits."

Nice!

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 4:43 PM
I agree, if the military adopts a firearm, you can know that it was completely field tested and deemed suitable for service. Then again, they may not swim or mud bathe with it like Hairball does with his AI.

Thats fantastic, once again. You are straying from what I said. I said, an AI is more reliable then a custom action..........

Hairball
10-14-2013, 5:11 PM
Come on folks really, it's not like I throw the darn thing in the lake every day but I have had it submerged in water and covered in mud and it operated flawlessly. Custom actions are good for what they are designed for (sitting at a covered bench) as the slightest bits of sand or other material will lock them up. The OP wanted an opinion on an AI and I gave it to him. Those that don't own an AI sure have a lot of comments about them. I have custom made rifles and I own a number of mil grade rifles and it is my opinion that AI is the best all around choice for this platform. If you prefer a different manufacturer or model then more power to you.

russ69
10-14-2013, 5:14 PM
Thats fantastic, once again. You are straying from what I said. I said, an AI is more reliable then a custom action..........

Isn't an AI a custom action? I don't really know, just asking?

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 5:22 PM
Isn't an AI a custom action? I don't really know, just asking?

I dont know if you consider that a custom action, you cant just buy a AI action.

milotrain
10-14-2013, 5:28 PM
Problem is you have no idea who you are talking to.
That's why scientific tests are important.

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 5:29 PM
http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/183272-winter-shooting-sako-trg-22-observations-gear.html

Something else to think about his observations are very important. Read about the failures from remys and why. Compared to why the AI and TRG did NOT FAIL.

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 5:36 PM
http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/63137-accuracy-international-ae-mkii-vs-aics-clone.html

Read about the custom actions and what happened.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu9JEoHMBPA#t=18

A video on custom actions failing during matches.

LynnJr
10-14-2013, 5:37 PM
To the original poster.The Stiller tactical actions are not benchrest actions so the tolerances won't keep you from shooting.With a good barrel they will shoot atleast as good as an AI and the cost won't be anywhere near the AI.
I don't know why there are people here arguing about rolling around in mud or leaving your bolt open when its snowing so it won't return to battery when chock full of ice.
I have hunted in many places and have used my 700PSS as a paddle for 11 miles after I hydraulic'ed my raft.
Nobody here is going into battle with there personal rifle and if your rifle gets dirty most would simply clean it.
If your using your rifle for anything legal your biggest concerns will be mud or ice in the muzzle which can be prevented with 5 cents worth of tape or a condom.
And a foggy scope.For the foggy scope a handkerchief or t-shirt will get you shooting.
The 338 Lapua shoots at low velocity like the 308 but the bullets used have a decent BC number.
There are better rounds out there if your a reloader looking to shoot longrange.

milotrain
10-14-2013, 5:46 PM
I have hunted in many places and have used my 700PSS as a paddle for 11 miles after I hydraulic'ed my raft.

:eek:


So the real question is which makes a better paddle. I mean the AI is way better dynamically sculpted for a draw stroke but a mcmillan stocked 700 will jstroke better.

russ69
10-14-2013, 5:53 PM
So the real question is which makes a better paddle...

A boat paddle Ruger of course:

Cypriss32
10-14-2013, 6:24 PM
:eek:


So the real question is which makes a better paddle.

Ruger GSR!

postal
10-14-2013, 6:48 PM
Probably my savage with the hollow plastic stock. It might float if I drop it. Which... by the way would keep it nice and clean if I was pretending to be some type of high speed low drag 'operator' going through the mud...

Fjold
10-14-2013, 7:24 PM
The good thing about spending money on custom guns is that you'll never get out what you put into them.

I spent $850 on a bolt gun and I'm about to drop another $1,500 of mods into it. When I get done I'll have a rifle worth about $850.

Hairball
10-14-2013, 7:52 PM
"pretend" that's a good one. Been there done that

ar15barrels
10-14-2013, 11:14 PM
Yes I can get a good rifle made that is accurate ( I have a few) for a lot less money but no matter what custom rifle it is, it is not an AI.

Amen.
And thank goodness because the custom will be a better gun...

ar15barrels
10-14-2013, 11:17 PM
Good advice but can you swim with a 308 or take a mud bath with it?

Stainless barrel and action FTW...

ar15barrels
10-14-2013, 11:19 PM
I'd be SHOCKED if an AI had some sort of extra special mud ability compared to a Stiller, BAT action, or even a printed 700 action. It's a bolt gun, it's not a pocket watch.

AI Arctic Warfare rifles do have design features that help them work when frozen.
They have not figured out how to make the operators function correctly when frozen though.

ar15barrels
10-14-2013, 11:25 PM
Custom actions are good for what they are designed for (sitting at a covered bench) as the slightest bits of sand or other material will lock them up.

I have had my surgeons wet, muddy and full of new mexicos finest silty sand and they keep running just fine.
They are NOT as smooth to operate when full of sand, but knocking the loose dirt out of them by running the bolt a couple times over an empty chamber clears them right up...

ar15barrels
10-14-2013, 11:28 PM
:eek:


So the real question is which makes a better paddle. I mean the AI is way better dynamically sculpted for a draw stroke but a mcmillan stocked 700 will jstroke better.

AI's make a horrible paddle.
They have big hole right through the middle of them and they are heavy as hell...

postal
10-15-2013, 12:29 PM
"pretend" that's a good one. Been there done that

And what rifle were you carrying? It wasnt an AI....:rolleyes:

zukieast
10-15-2013, 1:12 PM
I have a Rem 700 in 338LM with NF NXS 25pwr scope, 20MOA base, and medium hieght Luepold Steel rings.

I reload for my rifle 250gr bullets in 338LM Brass. I have shot it out to 1300 yards and can hit the 12" square target very consistantly. And am very happy with this combo that I have for about $3200 (not including the loading dies and components).

I also own a Barrett 50bmg and Barrett 416, 300win mag and love shooting all of them.

If was a competitve shooter then spending the money on any of the higher end 338's may be a concern. But 20-30rounds in an afternoon just hitting a target that far away and still having plenty of room to expand makes me happy.

Buy what you can afford and shoot the snot out of it. Then if you are ready to move up, sell it and buy the next best thing. Just dont get hung up on it all and get out there shooting. Most of these rifles none of us would even consider going hunting with. They are just too darn heavy to lug around the hills, when the average kill is under 200yards for the entire USofA.

Cypriss32
10-15-2013, 1:18 PM
Have you thought an a DTA? I just put together a deal for one. I like the idea of having 1 foot cut off my rifle due to the design.

WHITE MAMBA
10-15-2013, 1:52 PM
I used to own tha AI awsm in 338 now i own a Trg 42. They both shoot the same acurracy wise. The main difference is wt and i would say durability. If i took my Ai from the barrel end and slamed it against a rock wall- no problem!
My Trg42 would not fare as well though

1CavScout
10-15-2013, 3:09 PM
Have you thought an a DTA? I just put together a deal for one. I like the idea of having 1 foot cut off my rifle due to the design.

They are also fairly light. I just bought one (SRS), and compared to my Barrett it is extremely light.

Cypriss32
10-15-2013, 3:26 PM
They are also fairly light. I just bought one (SRS), and compared to my Barrett it is extremely light.

Thank you sir. I would venture to guess you like it?
What is yours, gen 1 or gen 2?

1CavScout
10-15-2013, 3:49 PM
Thank you sir. I would venture to guess you like it?
What is yours, gen 1 or gen 2?

It's a gen 2, and I am still setting it up. But it's very light and comfortable.

postal
10-15-2013, 4:45 PM
Those things are cool...(DTA) Cartridge change in about 3 minutes.....

Pricey, and I hear the wait time is pretty long... but... The the ability to change cartridges are worth it, and the wait times of top level gunsmiths isnt short either...

Shovel
10-15-2013, 5:09 PM
I haven't heard much about this one but it would be pretty sweet to go with a semi-auto .338 LM.

http://onlylongrange.com/badnews.asp

Clever
10-15-2013, 5:36 PM
Sako TRG 42/22 in any caliber will not let you down, the engineering is top notch. AI rifles are also engineered extremely well as military Sniper rifles. I have shot both of them in the 338LM. I personally like the Sako TRG 42/22, the rifle can flat out shoot, the weight is perfect, trigger is crisp (2 stage fully adjustable) brakes like GLASS. The stock is adjustable (fit and feel is perfect). Accessories are a little costly but there are aftermarket companies that you can choose from. The AI just as good I like the stock fit and feel top notch, it's a little heavier, the triggers needs help. Shoots lights out but since 2009 I have not been able to justify cost. Sako TRG is half the price and performs as well if not better than the AI. I have shot against my friend's AI for years. And he has never had an edge on me nor me on him.
My overall opinion? They are awesome rifles, but I can achieve the same with a TRG for half the price. Not giving up quality or performance, just the opposite I gain a better trigger and a lighter rifle for less..

professorfate
10-15-2013, 6:49 PM
Buy a 338RUM , 338-378, or 340 Weatherby and call it good. You'll probably get better accuracy from the RUM as it's beltless.

LynnJr
10-15-2013, 7:30 PM
You empty the gun and hold the barrel with one hand and the scope with the other hand when padding.
The guy in the back of the raft was using a hunk of 4x4 fence post and the 700 was a better oar.
Two larger than average 3x3 bucks were watching us at 100 yards and the scope was very foggy.One shot later the fog was gone but the scope then had a large water drop centered up in the crosshairs and when I cycled the bolt it flew into a large muddy puddle in the back chamber of the raft.
We ended up with the one 3x3 and a smallish black bear.
Here is my truck at 6 weeks old.

postal
10-15-2013, 7:39 PM
With any magnification you wouldnt see a water drop on the scope.....
Funny though!!!

LynnJr
10-16-2013, 2:36 PM
Postal
The water drop was inside the scope and formed when the rifle recoiled moving all the fog into one central location creating the drop.I know because I was there doing the firing.

postal
10-16-2013, 3:57 PM
LOL!!!! Well, thats just bad luck! I thought you were just joking! My bad....

Clever
10-16-2013, 4:47 PM
I own a AIAX 338 and a TRG does not come close in comparison. While the TRG makes a good bench rifle, the AI is built like a tank and can handle any shooting situation you may encounter. The TRG comes in at 11.7 pounds with a 26 inch barrel while the AI weighs 17.6 pounds with a 27 inch barrel. My first 20 rounds on the AI all fit within a one inch square at 100 yards with factory loads. Once you get your reloads dialed in this rifle is amazing. Yes they are expensive and when topped off with a Spuhr one piece mount, an atlas bipod and a S&B PMII optic, you are looking at around 14K. Yes that is a lot to spend but you will not be disappointed.

Sako TRG 42 338 Lapua Mag comes with a 27" barrel..

Clever
10-16-2013, 4:51 PM
Doesn't come close? Your standards must be astronomical, because to the average shooter I think you'll find they are both in good company. AIs have gone through the roof pricewise in recent years but you could easily argue that not a whole lot has changed during that time other than refinements to the chassis.

I see a lot of people wanting to just dive right in to ELR shooting with .338LM rifles and they seem to either go the really, really economical route by getting a Savage 110BA and a cheap Burris scope, shooting the cheapest ammo they can get their hands on. Or on the flipside, dropping four times that amount on an AI AX w/ S&B. Will the later shoot better? Maybe; it all depends on the shooter. It's not like someone new to guitars is going to get much more out of a top of the line Fender vs a cheap starter guitar? My point in all of this is that there's a pragmatic middle ground to this stuff and the TRG falls right smack in the middle of that area, making it a good value choice. And honestly, there's nothing wrong with learning ELR shooting with a platform like that, over a few years, and figuring out what you like or dislike before moving up to something that's a better fit for your needs, or deciding that shooting to a mile isn't something you're really into and just sell the gear.

Incidentally, here's one TRG shooters experience in extreme conditions:
http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/183272-winter-shooting-sako-trg-22-observations-gear.html

PLUS ONE

Clever
10-16-2013, 4:58 PM
Why does someone always make that argument. Yes I can get a good rifle made that is accurate ( I have a few) for a lot less money but no matter what custom rifle it is, it is not an AI. Take your top 10 rifles and drop them in a lake or a mud bath and then see how well their actions and the rifle continue to function. Again, different rifle for different applications.

Given.. Can your rifle withstand 35 below ZERO conditions, will your trigger work and what about your trigger finger. Will it stick to your trigger? Can you cycle your bolt? Just asking as I can do all these with my TRG or bench rifle as you kind of touched on..

postal
10-16-2013, 5:44 PM
The Finns never forgot "The Winter War"..... Simo Hayha was a living legend... The TRG series was designed to work under those conditions. So was the AI/AW. (AW stands for "arctic warfare"....) Negative 40 degrees in the Finnish mountains....

Celsius or farenheight? ...." first the one.... then the other...." (-42 F is the same as -42C.....)

Either no lube AT ALL.... or sunflower oil only.... It's the only oil I ever heard of that doesnt freeze at those temps... Though by now there might be specialized synthetics.... The obvious choice is to run the gun completely dry.

As I said in my first post on the thread, the TRG series was meant to be a serious battle rifle under rugged conditions. They're no joke. Smooth actions and sweet triggers too. Though I would give the AI a slight edge, it doesnt warrant the price tag anymore.

And just to spit in your eye... AI is dropping the more affordable AE series- which still cost more than a TRG.

But yes "clever"... the AI ARCTIC WARFARE will run in those conditions too. Though the TRG is a much better buy.

Though I havent heard about all the testing of TRG's in the desert sand. I expect them to do very well.

ar15barrels
10-16-2013, 9:05 PM
Though I havent heard about all the testing of TRG's in the desert sand. I expect them to do very well.

I have seen TRG42's running in some ugly silty red sand in Arizona at Gunsite.
No problems relating to sand/dirt...

Droppin Deuces
10-24-2013, 10:39 PM
I don't know much about bolt guns. I have a 300WM 5R that I've shot a few times but haven't really gotten into, and that's about the extent of it.
Anyway, a good friend of mine who is also a Calgunner owns a very nicely set up and prepped Rem 700 338LM. We drove out to our secret one mile spot the other day and he launched a handful of handloads at a 9"x12"~ flopper with great success. I don't know what size target people typically shoot at that distance, but I thought that - aside from the one hit - the fact that almost every shot landed inside of a foot of the target was pretty damn impressive. Had we set up the 100% silhouette, it would have been that much better.

20x through my camera:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/doghair/20131023_115231_zps74235e41.jpg

40x through the spotter:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/doghair/20131023_122245_zps0af1bf8f.jpg
So again, I don't know anything about bolt guns or what makes one cost more than the next. But I have witnessed how accurate a "cheap" one can be when set up properly.