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Shotgun Man
01-23-2008, 4:47 PM
From the CA Penal Code:

"§ 468. "Sniperscope"; Unauthorized dealing or possession

Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.

This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes."


First off, don't you love the term "sniperscope"? Could they have come up with a more menancing, evil term?

I wanted to get a night vision scope, with magnification, and the infrared light source to put on an airgun. But as I read the statute as long as the scope is adaptable for a firearm, it would be illegal to possess.

But there's an exception at the end for scientific research or educational purposes.

It would be educational for me to see how a "sniperscope" works on my airgun at night for possible pest control. Gee whiz, I want to subject the unit to field testing. Certainly, that is an educational purpose.

I would even likely plan to subject my findings to peer review.

AKman
01-23-2008, 4:53 PM
From the CA Penal Code:

"§ 468. "Sniperscope"; Unauthorized dealing or possession

Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.

This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes."


First off, don't you love the term "sniperscope"? Could they have come up with a more menancing, evil term?

I wanted to get a night vision scope, with magnification, and the infrared light source to put on an airgun. But as I read the statute as long as the scope is adaptable for a firearm, it would be illegal to possess.

But there's an exception at the end for scientific research or education purposes.

It would be educational for me to see how a "sniperscope" works on my airgun at night for possible pest control. Gee whiz, I want to subject the unit to field testing. Certainly, that is an educational purpose.

It would seem that sitting in your backyard taking a "rat census" would be classified as scientific research. Just keep detailed records of daily rat sightings and update the trend analysis each time you record an entry. You could set out to prove the hypothesis that the number of rat sightings decreases proportionally with the number of rats that have been shot.

grammaton76
01-23-2008, 4:57 PM
Get one where the illuminator is detached from the scope, and don't mount it on the weapon. Eliminate either the illuminator or the magnification, and you're set.

Then, get a helmet or hat to mount the illuminator on. :)

Shotgun Man
01-23-2008, 5:03 PM
Get one where the illuminator is detached from the scope, and don't mount it on the weapon. Eliminate either the illuminator or the magnification, and you're set.

Then, get a helmet or hat to mount the illuminator on. :)

Yeah, that does seem to be a nifty work-around.

Still, it does not seem as though it would be as efficient as having the ir source mounted to the scope so the ir alway shines directly where the scope is pointing.

AKMan-- a rat census-- that's funny.

grammaton76
01-23-2008, 5:17 PM
Yeah, that does seem to be a nifty work-around.

Still, it does not seem as though it would be as efficient as having the ir source mounted to the scope so the ir alway shines directly where the scope is pointing.

Yep, just like all the other things we do in CA because of the law... inconvenient but legal. :)

Bruce
01-24-2008, 2:25 AM
First off, don't you love the term "sniperscope"? Could they have come up with a more menancing, evil term?




Sacramento didn't invent the term, the Army did. At the time the statute was written, the only "sniperscopes" were the "Infrared Sniperscope, M1 and M3" that were designed for use on the M-3 Carbine. The later version, it was fitted to just about every long arm the Army had.

( http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m3irsnip.htm )

AKman
01-24-2008, 6:48 AM
Get one where the illuminator is detached from the scope, and don't mount it on the weapon. Eliminate either the illuminator or the magnification, and you're set.

Then, get a helmet or hat to mount the illuminator on. :)

An IR illuminator would mount nicely on a tinfoil hat.

timmyb21
01-24-2008, 3:07 PM
Why does the California Government insist on making everything illegal? Do you really thing that a gang member will practice enough with a precision rifle to be able to make a one shot kill in the middle of the night? No. They won't. They look for a "Glock foty" or some other gun that has been mentioned in some rappers song. They are obtained illegally, and the operator usually misses, why do you thing you always hear about innocent bystanders being shot? "Spray and pray" come to mind? This sickens me.

jjperl
01-24-2008, 3:39 PM
From the CA Penal Code:

"§ 468. "Sniperscope"; Unauthorized dealing or possession

As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.

Is the NV scope that you are looking at buying telescopic? In other words, does it magnify more than 1x?

RANGER295
01-24-2008, 3:42 PM
I could be wrong, but I thought that the latest generation of night vision technology did not use an IR illuminator at all. Is this true? If so shouldn’t that be legal? Just a thought.

yellowfin
01-24-2008, 3:46 PM
Why does the California Government insist on making everything illegal?

Simple. It makes for a good strawman to blame for police inability to control crime and a justice system destroyed by liberal ideology, society unwilling to confront real issues such as illegitimacy and divorce, moral decay, drug abuse, etc., and a mentality of the public unwilling to expel scum from their midst (and their leadership) and take personal control of their safety while trusting others to do the same.

383green
01-24-2008, 3:57 PM
I could be wrong, but I thought that the latest generation of night vision technology did not use an IR illuminator at all. Is this true? If so shouldn’t that be legal? Just a thought.

Current NV gear doesn't require an IR illuminator as long as there is sufficient ambient light (such as moonlight or starlight), but NV devices often still have an IR LED to allow them to be used in pitch darkness (such as inside a building). For example, my second-generation AN/PVS-5 goggles include an IR LED for indoor use. Those cheap Russian imported "zero-generation" starlight scopes also often include IR illuminators for indoor use.

Thus, even though the "sniperscope" law was written in such a way that it specifically describes very early devices that always used an IR illuminator, current devices still may run afoul of the law if they include IR LEDs for illumination. If you are considering the use of some weapon-mounted NV scope in CA, make sure that the specific device that you want to use does not include an IR illuminator, even if it's current-generation gear.

Shotgun Man
01-24-2008, 7:54 PM
Is the NV scope that you are looking at buying telescopic? In other words, does it magnify more than 1x?

Yes, it did magnify.

jjperl
01-24-2008, 8:17 PM
Yes, it did magnify.

Then you'll definitely have to have a good scientific and/or educational reason for having it.

Teletiger7
02-05-2008, 10:38 AM
Interesting thread. Can anyone think of current a NV scope that doesn't magnify and doesn't have an IR illuminator?

Current NV gear doesn't require an IR illuminator as long as there is sufficient ambient light (such as moonlight or starlight), but NV devices often still have an IR LED to allow them to be used in pitch darkness (such as inside a building). For example, my second-generation AN/PVS-5 goggles include an IR LED for indoor use. Those cheap Russian imported "zero-generation" starlight scopes also often include IR illuminators for indoor use.

Thus, even though the "sniperscope" law was written in such a way that it specifically describes very early devices that always used an IR illuminator, current devices still may run afoul of the law if they include IR LEDs for illumination. If you are considering the use of some weapon-mounted NV scope in CA, make sure that the specific device that you want to use does not include an IR illuminator, even if it's current-generation gear.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
02-05-2008, 12:45 PM
It would seem that sitting in your backyard taking a "rat census" would be classified as scientific research. Just keep detailed records of daily rat sightings and update the trend analysis each time you record an entry. You could set out to prove the hypothesis that the number of rat sightings decreases proportionally with the number of rats that have been shot.

Lol I like how you think. That's just crazy enough to maybe make a prosecutor go "WTH" and leave you alone.

Nodda Duma
02-05-2008, 12:48 PM
Interesting thread. Can anyone think of current a NV scope that doesn't magnify and doesn't have an IR illuminator?

Night vision monoculars and binoculars (and bioculars!) all magnify to some extent, whether it be positive or negative magnification. In addition, every night vision device I've seen, from the cheesy Gen 1 junk from Russia to the Gen 3 PVS-14 include an active IR illuminator.

By the way the nighttime sky looks real sweet through a night vision scope. You can see a fair number of galaxies and nebulae, not to mention the mind-boggling number of stars that you can't see with your naked eye. Worth getting one just for that.

-Jason

Teletiger7
02-05-2008, 4:25 PM
Night vision monoculars and binoculars (and bioculars!) all magnify to some extent, whether it be positive or negative magnification. In addition, every night vision device I've seen, from the cheesy Gen 1 junk from Russia to the Gen 3 PVS-14 include an active IR illuminator.

By the way the nighttime sky looks real sweet through a night vision scope. You can see a fair number of galaxies and nebulae, not to mention the mind-boggling number of stars that you can't see with your naked eye. Worth getting one just for that.

-Jason

Yes, astronomy is such a fascinating subject. I definitely wanna see more stars at night. I can only imagine what a full moon looks like with NV.

bernieb90
02-06-2008, 7:25 AM
I was at the SHOT show this past weekend and got to play with an ELCAN SpecterIR. These are what the big boys use. True IR technology not light amplification. Very cool, but also about $12,000 a pop. Perfectly legal in Kali though because they require zero ambient or additional light to work and they are able to see through fog and smoke just like vehicle mounted FLIR systems. The unit is waterproof otherwise the drool would have shorted it out.

http://www.elcan.com/ELCAN_Business_Areas/Sighting_Systems/Products/Thermal_Sights/SpecterIR.php

duenor
02-06-2008, 8:14 AM
Yup. Bernie beat me to it. Oh, and it is WAAAAY more advanced than NV. I felt like one Ridley Scott's Aliens. If anyone's ever played Call of Duty 4, there is a level where you are manning a AC10 gunship equipped with thermal imagining. It is JUST like that, except close up instead of way up high.

You can see a pic of it in my shot 08 thread.. i forget the tinypic url.
In that picture, the little tiny unit in front of the optic is $16,000+. It is also an ITAR restricted item.