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View Full Version : Really dumb Hollywood question...


tacticalcity
10-06-2013, 1:42 AM
OK, this is probably a silly question and I should probably know better but I am going to ask anyway.

In the movies they always show the evil assassin assemble his rifle on sight and it usually has a barrel that he just inserts into the receiver, gives it a twist, and it locks into place.

Now the closest thing I know of in real life is Noveske's Switchblock system, which is not nearly as compact and Secret Squirrel-ish.

So my question is are they're rifles that are that are really that convertible for lack of a better word and if so do they have safety, legal, or accuracy concerns as a result of being so convertible.

I ask solely out of pure curiosity. Nice to know myth from reality. I want to know if this is Hollywood fluff or if there are rifles out there like this. And if so does somebody have any real world examples?

Scratch705
10-06-2013, 2:00 AM
they are called takedown rifles

http://www.randyscustomrifles.com/images/weatherby_mark_v-s.jpg
http://www.anzioironworks.com/20incase1.jpg
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/img/model-name/Browning-BLR-Lightweight-81-Takedown--034011-500m.jpg

TKM
10-06-2013, 2:55 AM
Add one of these to your AR and away you go.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/837/products_id/411553112/Reserve+Order+Guns/AR-15+Covert+Carry+Kit+WITH+CASE

tacticalcity
10-06-2013, 4:01 AM
they are called takedown rifles

http://www.randyscustomrifles.com/images/weatherby_mark_v-s.jpg


I've seen rifles like the top picture before as well. Somehow I just had a senior moment and forgot I knew this.

tacticalcity
10-06-2013, 4:04 AM
Add one of these to your AR and away you go.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/837/products_id/411553112/Reserve+Order+Guns/AR-15+Covert+Carry+Kit+WITH+CASE

As an AR guy that is pretty tempting. Didn't think this would be something I would want but it looks kinda nifty. I have no practical reason to want it aside from the cool factor. No head-space issues or concerns with this?

TKM
10-06-2013, 6:29 AM
Check with Wes at Tenpercent.

He has a video of himself playing with one somewhere.

Also one of him riding a pink moped.

Exodus343
10-06-2013, 7:33 AM
Nemesis vanquish

Check that out

Sunday
10-06-2013, 8:03 AM
Hollywood movies are mindless entertainment and is pretty offensive just like T.V.

njineermike
10-06-2013, 8:07 AM
Add one of these to your AR and away you go.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/837/products_id/411553112/Reserve+Order+Guns/AR-15+Covert+Carry+Kit+WITH+CASE

OK. Possible dumb question, but wouldn't that be an SBR when broken down?

beenawhile
10-06-2013, 8:18 AM
Can't shoot it when its disassembled

njineermike
10-06-2013, 8:25 AM
Can't shoot it when its disassembled

Why not? The firing mechanism is intact all the way to the end of the BCG. Not being a smartalek, just really curious. I like it, especially for transporting, but I'd rather know why it's NOT an SBR than think it isn't while I'm in a jail cell awaiting arraignment.

beenawhile
10-06-2013, 8:34 AM
My thought is that the case of the cartridge would just go boom and the projectile would basically go nowhere. I don't know though if it meets the legal definition of an SBR, just thinking why it possibly wouldn't be :confused:

Merc1138
10-06-2013, 9:38 AM
Why not? The firing mechanism is intact all the way to the end of the BCG. Not being a smartalek, just really curious. I like it, especially for transporting, but I'd rather know why it's NOT an SBR than think it isn't while I'm in a jail cell awaiting arraignment.

You going to hold the cartridge in place with your fingers or something, against the ejector? Is the 10/22 takedown an SBR? Being rimfire doesn't make that exempt from SBR laws.

Cypriss32
10-06-2013, 9:44 AM
HS precision makes a take down. They were 3,000 a few years ago. Ishould have bought one for my hunting rig. Now they are 5,000 or 6k, I dont remember.

njineermike
10-06-2013, 10:16 AM
You going to hold the cartridge in place with your fingers or something, against the ejector? Is the 10/22 takedown an SBR? Being rimfire doesn't make that exempt from SBR laws.

But can a single shot capable weapon still be legally prosecuted as an SBR? Just because nobody's been prosecuted in our glorious utopia doesn't mean creative interpretation of law doesn't concern me.

Merc1138
10-06-2013, 10:24 AM
But can a single shot capable weapon still be legally prosecuted as an SBR? Just because nobody's been prosecuted in our glorious utopia doesn't mean creative interpretation of law doesn't concern me.

It's not any shot, there's no chamber. If you hold a cartridge against the bolt face and pull the trigger, about all you're going to accomplish is blowing your fingers up. It wouldn't be any different from removing the barrel on any other rifle.

njineermike
10-06-2013, 10:42 AM
It's not any shot, there's no chamber. If you hold a cartridge against the bolt face and pull the trigger, about all you're going to accomplish is blowing your fingers up. It wouldn't be any different from removing the barrel on any other rifle.

I went up and looked. The rear face of the barrel is what holds the bolt from falling through the from of the upper received. I just want to be 100% sure some aftermarket "kit" isn't going to land me in a concrete apartment wearing an orange jumpsuit.

Merc1138
10-06-2013, 10:59 AM
I went up and looked. The rear face of the barrel is what holds the bolt from falling through the from of the upper received. I just want to be 100% sure some aftermarket "kit" isn't going to land me in a concrete apartment wearing an orange jumpsuit.

Wouldn't be any different than taking the barrel off any "normal" AR, or the dozens of other firearms out there with barrels that can be replaced pretty easily. Not sure why you think the feds would have an issue with what is essentially a quick detach barrel.

Now if you had some sort of 2 piece barrel that unscrewed in half, that would be a problem(not only as an SBR, but other technical reasons as well). Then there are other rifles that could have the barrel and recever assembled without the stock, but that's not what this is either.

Removing the barrel from the receiver does not make a rifle into an SBR.

njineermike
10-06-2013, 11:02 AM
Wouldn't be any different than taking the barrel off any "normal" AR, or the dozens of other firearms out there with barrels that can be replaced pretty easily. Not sure why you think the feds would have an issue with what is essentially a quick detach barrel.

Now if you had some sort of 2 piece barrel that unscrewed in half, that would be a problem(not only as an SBR, but other technical reasons as well). Then there are other rifles that could have the barrel and recever assembled without the stock, but that's not what this is either.

Not worried about the feds. I worry about the lunacy that is the California DOJ and its interpretation. I'd rather know why it's legal than assume why.

Merc1138
10-06-2013, 11:05 AM
Not worried about the feds. I worry about the lunacy that is the California DOJ and its interpretation. I'd rather know why it's legal than assume why.

It doesn't meet CA's definition of any SBR either. It's not a functioning firearm with the barrel removed.

Do you have an AR? Or any rifle for that matter? Go take the bolt out. Now slide the rim of a case underneath the extractor, and hold it down against the ejector. Do you see the problem yet?

Nevermind all of the takedown rifles, or frankly any rifle sold in CA that can have it's barrel removed isn't an SBR just because the barrel is missing, and I can't recall ever reading of anyone even finding themselves in jail for that, let alone prosecuted.

If CA suddenly comes up with some "Any rifle with a removable barrel" is an SBR nonsense, that pretty much makes every rifle in CA an SBR because the barrel can be removed.

njineermike
10-06-2013, 11:14 AM
It doesn't meet CA's definition of any SBR either. It's not a functioning firearm with the barrel removed.

Do you have an AR? Or any rifle for that matter? Go take the bolt out. Now slide the rim of a case underneath the extractor, and hold it down against the ejector. Do you see the problem yet?

Nevermind all of the takedown rifles, or frankly any rifle sold in CA that can have it's barrel removed isn't an SBR just because the barrel is missing, and I can't recall ever reading of anyone even finding themselves in jail for that, let alone prosecuted.

I disassembled mine to be sure. Saw the rear face of the barrel holds the bolt on place and gives the seal for chamber pressure. Like i said, I'd rather be cautious and sure than be the test case and hope the CGF and SAF can win. Ever try gaining back child custody when you've lost it, or rebuilding lost retirement savings because you spent it in a legal fight? I haven't and don't want to try it, and living in his state is reason enough for me to exercise caution.

And I do appreciate the answer. I learned something today about my gun. :D

Merc1138
10-06-2013, 11:16 AM
This is nothing like a child custody case, there are a handful(lol, pun not intended) of technical issues that prevent the removal of a barrel counting as an SBR.

njineermike
10-06-2013, 11:25 AM
This is nothing like a child custody case, there are a handful(lol, pun not intended) of technical issues that prevent the removal of a barrel counting as an SBR.

The child custody comment was that if I was in jail, my visitation would be removed or severely limited, and getting your kid out of CPS is a nightmare, especially when they see me as a threat to his safety due to a felony firearms arrest. In the world of children and the state, perception IS reality.

And knowing enough about my firearm is not possible. I learned something today. Getting schooled on that is something I take appreciatively

OTP
10-06-2013, 1:01 PM
OK. Possible dumb question, but wouldn't that be an SBR when broken down?

No, it would be the new and elusive NBR. No barrel rifle. Better safe to ask I guess.

What would be the logic in transporting it with the barrel removed, vs just removing the upper? Makes no sense to spend $250.00 on a case like that, just to make you disassemble beyond a reasonable level with only minor space savings.

Uriah02
10-06-2013, 1:13 PM
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/08/13/drd-tactical-paratus-clandestine-take-down-rifle/
FPS Russia showcased this one a while ago.

HK Dave
10-06-2013, 2:28 PM
Accuracy International PSR Rifle System (http://www.eurooptic.com/accuracy-international-psr-system.aspx)

There is the one I dream of. If only I had a spare $17K laying around.

CobraRed
10-06-2013, 7:42 PM
Doesn't the Barret Mrad allow for quick barrel change/install? And it's bullpup, so im guessing you could make it pretty compact.

postal
10-06-2013, 7:46 PM
My personal favorite was the stupid movie with Jackie Chan... "the Tuxedo".... The hot chick hands him a briefcase saying "here's the 45 caliber sniper rifle you requested".... it's all in pieces... he assembles it on the spot... and though it was so long ago models have changed.... I believe it was a predecessor of *this* rifle.....

A Steyr PCP competition pellet rifle.... (in the movie you clearly see the air tank- it was a 'bumble bee' yellow black laminate stock in the movie)
http://host17.ssl-net.net/steyr-sportwaffen_at/media/Luftgewehre/LG110_Match/LG110_match_g.jpg

6mmintl
10-07-2013, 5:41 AM
Its called acting, and its mostly in the movie's.

CrippledPidgeon
10-08-2013, 7:06 PM
Here's a particularly famous one from Dirty Harry:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/e/e6/DH1MP40-1-Sniper5.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/images/c/c2/DH1Sniper-7.jpg

It's a sporterized Type 2 Arisaka Paratrooper (takedown) rifle.

plumbum
10-08-2013, 8:55 PM
Here's a particularly famous one from Dirty Harry:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/e/e6/DH1MP40-1-Sniper5.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/images/c/c2/DH1Sniper-7.jpg

It's a sporterized Type 2 Arisaka Paratrooper (takedown) rifle.

...that apparently takes uzi mags?


I'd buy that!

Merc1138
10-08-2013, 8:58 PM
...that apparently takes uzi mags?


I'd buy that!

Takes uzi mags? There's 2 rifles in that case.

CreamyFettucini
10-08-2013, 9:07 PM
In from Russia with love 007 uses an AR-7 "sniper rifle"

http://www.imfdb.org/images/6/62/Frwlar7c.jpg

bloodhawke83
10-08-2013, 9:14 PM
...that apparently takes uzi mags?


I'd buy that!

Gotta make the sheep scared.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4

LynnJr
10-08-2013, 9:41 PM
Here is the cover rifle from Precision Shooting Magazine from back a few years.It was the Late Roger Johnstons of Neco personal rifle.
It has 3 barrels and 2 bolts.If you look at the barrels they have a acme type thread and a locking collar.When lined up they snap into place.
It takes 45 seconds for a barrel swap if your slow.
I have 6ppc 308 300 winchester magnum barrels chambered up for it now and if your into ballistics I have 4 more test barrels set up for pressure testing those chamberings plus 220 Swift that can't be used for other purposes but are very accurate.
The bolt throw is 60 degrees not 90 degrees like on a Remington and all of it(3 barrels) fits into a custom case.
The trigger is set at 1.6 ounces but can be increased to almost 8 ounces if needed.
It shoots in the low 2's with the 308 barrel mid 3's with the 300 barrel and very low 2's igh 1's with the 6ppc barrel.
I have custom dies for all 3 chambers plus 220 Swift as well.
If anyone is interested in this rifle pm me.

tacticalcity
10-08-2013, 9:51 PM
No, it would be the new and elusive NBR. No barrel rifle. Better safe to ask I guess.

What would be the logic in transporting it with the barrel removed, vs just removing the upper? Makes no sense to spend $250.00 on a case like that, just to make you disassemble beyond a reasonable level with only minor space savings.

Covertness. That would be it. From a perspective of not having anyone so much as look twice at it during transport the "minor" space savings are pretty huge. You and I have no real need for that, but secret squirrel types probably do. For us it would just be the "that's so cool" factor.

OTP
10-08-2013, 10:01 PM
Covertness. That would be it. From a perspective of not having anyone so much as look twice at it during transport the "minor" space savings are pretty huge. You and I have no real need for that, but secret squirrel types probably do. For us it would just be the "that's so cool" factor.

Guess I need to be in hired assassin mode to see the need.

BroncoBob
10-08-2013, 10:09 PM
Yeah this works

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/AR-7%20Conversion/MVC-002F-4.jpg (http://s277.photobucket.com/user/223Bob/media/AR-7%20Conversion/MVC-002F-4.jpg.html)

CrippledPidgeon
10-09-2013, 7:16 PM
I ask solely out of pure curiosity. Nice to know myth from reality. I want to know if this is Hollywood fluff or if there are rifles out there like this. And if so does somebody have any real world examples?

I forgot that the EDM Windrunner is also a takedown precision rifle.

I also have Winchester Model 1897 and Model 12 shotguns that are takedown. You pull a captured pin, rotate the mag tube 90 degrees, pull it out a couple inches, and then you can rotate the barrel+magtube assembly 90 degrees and remove it from the receiver. Since I have the 1897 in the 18.5" Riot version, it fits inside a backpack or a duffel quite easily.

vintagedude88
10-09-2013, 8:56 PM
Guess I need to be in hired assassin mode to see the need.

No, you just need to have nosie neighbors to see the need for it.

OTP
10-09-2013, 9:08 PM
No, you just need to have nosie neighbors to see the need for it.

Very true! Luckily the way the houses are situated, I get a lot of privacy that many wouldn't.

ar15barrels
10-11-2013, 3:13 AM
I forgot that the EDM Windrunner is also a takedown precision rifle.

It is a takedown, but not very precision.
Barrel changes will throw the zero off a couple moa or more.
If you are only taking typical police sniper 35-50yd shots, they are fine.
Just don't expect to hit a golf ball at 100yds after installing the barrel...

njineermike
10-11-2013, 8:37 AM
It is a takedown, but not very precision.
Barrel changes will throw the zero off a couple moa or more.
If you are only taking typical police sniper 35-50yd shots, they are fine.
Just don't expect to hit a golf ball at 100yds after installing the barrel...

I'm curious about that too. When you pull an upper from an AR, the entire length of the sights, optical or open, is complete. Does anybody have any experience on the accuracy and repeatability of the takedown AR units? I'm seriously considering one of these for a 5.56/300BLK dual purpose since the BCG and upper are identical, and only the barrels are different.

Whiterabbit
10-11-2013, 8:48 AM
I'm curious about that too. When you pull an upper from an AR, the entire length of the sights, optical or open, is complete. Does anybody have any experience on the accuracy and repeatability of the takedown AR units? I'm seriously considering one of these for a 5.56/300BLK dual purpose since the BCG and upper are identical, and only the barrels are different.

whats the cost on a takedown conversion compared to an extra stripped upper (if you can reuse the bolt)

njineermike
10-11-2013, 9:18 AM
whats the cost on a takedown conversion compared to an extra stripped upper (if you can reuse the bolt)

Come to think of it, almost nothing. Barrel swap requires a handguard anyway. All I need is a set of pins that are easier to remove than the flat ones (got those now) and a second upper receiver. Thee takedown only saves me about 5 or 6 inches in storage length anyway.

Thanks. You guys helped me decide on what to do.

SVT-40
10-11-2013, 3:28 PM
A few pic's of a Israeli conversion of the Armalite AR-7 into a pilots survival rifle. They used a FAL pistol grip and a Mauser sight and cover, as well as their own stock and stock mount. The rubber cover on the grip covers a space to carry loose rounds. The stock holds two additional magazines. The sling is from a UZI.
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w201/SVT-40/Israeli%20Mausers/DSC04608-01-1.jpg (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/SVT-40/media/Israeli%20Mausers/DSC04608-01-1.jpg.html)

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w201/SVT-40/Israeli%20Mausers/ar7isr01.jpg (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/SVT-40/media/Israeli%20Mausers/ar7isr01.jpg.html)

CrippledPidgeon
10-11-2013, 4:54 PM
It is a takedown, but not very precision.
Barrel changes will throw the zero off a couple moa or more.
If you are only taking typical police sniper 35-50yd shots, they are fine.
Just don't expect to hit a golf ball at 100yds after installing the barrel...
Hmm... That's what I get for not having any experience with the platform. I've handled, though never shot the 7.62 NATO version, and was impressed at the time.