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mbrown
01-19-2008, 7:26 AM
I don't have much experience with all these ridiculous laws, so please have patience with me :)

Is there a way to legally buy a California-legal rifle such that the state doesn't know I have it? I'd like to buy a semi-auto rifle, but fear that CA will one day tell me to turn it in. If that day comes, I don't want to turn it in unless I choose to do so. If the state knows I have it, they will know where to find me and make me turn it in.

In a related question, can I have my brother-in-law in Utah loan me a rifle that I can bring back to CA for an extended period of time without the state knowing?

These laws suck, but I tend to be a law-abiding person.

Hunter
01-19-2008, 7:34 AM
....Is there a way to legally buy a California-legal rifle such that the state doesn't know I have it? ......

:nono:

Hopi
01-19-2008, 10:29 AM
Welcome to the forum!

You can buy a semi-auto C&R eligible rifle in CA, person to person, without alerting the DOJ. If the rifle is greater than 50 years old, you can transfer ownership without a DROS, paperwork free.

Hopi
01-19-2008, 10:30 AM
:nono:

Ummmmm, not all semi-auto rifles have to have rails, flashlights, and 100 round magazines.....you're forgetting the C&R exemptions for transfer!

Hunter
01-19-2008, 10:57 AM
Ummmmm, not all semi-auto rifles have to have rails, flashlights, and 100 round magazines.....you're forgetting the C&R exemptions for transfer!

No, I am fully aware of C&Rs and all possible ways to answer this question. I choose not to go into the details based on his approach here and his wording of his question, with the implied intent that I read into it.

The poster says he only wants semi auto guns that he can buy, but not have tracked by the state. His reason being that he is a law abiding person but in the same breath implies he will not follow the laws if asked to register them in future..thus the need for untracable guns.

Why even encourage this type of discussion with someone that has 3 posts? He first two post were about WTB guns in Sacramento (no problem) then this question comes up.

Probably a 18 yr old with no bad intentions but then maybe not.

Hopi
01-19-2008, 11:48 AM
No, I am fully aware of C&Rs and all possible ways to answer this question. I choose not to go into the details based on his approach here and his wording of his question, with the implied intent that I read into it.



Then you should not have posted at all. Your DOJ style tactics of FUD is amusing but scary. Giving people accurate information to stay legal is one of the purposes of this forum.

In no way would answering his question truthfully, accurately, and/or completely be conspiracy to help him commit a crime.


Interesting question though. If all-out registration were mandated, how many gun owners would comply?

Librarian
01-19-2008, 12:38 PM
Let's just answer the questions...

Any rifle you buy, other than Curio and Relic (C&R), must go through a California FFL, including a Private Party Transfer (PPT) or a sale from a dealer. That means there will be a Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS), so the state will know you have a rifle, but not what kind. For long guns, the DROS form does not collect maker/model/caliber information.

As to loans, it's a 30 day limit, and you cannot bring in a weapon California would classify as an 'assault weapon'. More than 30 days and California wants to treat it as a transfer, and it's back through FFL/DROS.PC 12078 (d) (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the
infrequent loan of firearms between persons who are personally known
to each other for any lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30
days in duration...

(p) (1) Paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) and subdivision (d) of
Section 12072 shall not apply to the loan of a firearm that is not a
handgun to a minor, with the express permission of the parent or
legal guardian of the minor, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in
duration and is for a lawful purpose.(Those sections are not exactly on point, but do document the '30 day loan' idea.)

I'll let someone else talk about C&R; somehow I always get that wrong.

bwiese
01-19-2008, 12:43 PM
I'll give the orig poster the benefit of the doubt.

While there are some C&R/antique exceptions, you generally can't. Your parent, grandparent, child or grandchild could give you a long gun without paper. If it were a handgun, you'd need to file a registration, pay $19 per gun fee, and also hold a valid HSC card at the time of transfer.

Modern firearms can't be acquired across state lines without the use of an FFL. So you couldn't go to, say, UT or ID or NV, buy a gun (even from a private party in states where unpapered private sales are legal) and bring it back to CA: that would be criminal conduct on both state and Fed level.

You of course cannot acquire banned assault weapons.

12078(d)(2) allows infrequent loans of firearms between parties known to each others for periods of up to 30 days for lawful purposes. I would use care not to generalize this when both parties are not CA residents as there could be Fed handwaving.

CA reall does not know (with the exception of reg'd AWs reg'd in 1990 and 2000) what long guns you own.

If push came to shove and you wanted to retain your firearms even if something bad came down from Sacto, you could always move them outta state more rapidly than laws could pass.

Hunter
01-19-2008, 1:11 PM
...Your DOJ style tactics of FUD is amusing but scary. .....

Love it!:rolleyes:


Hopi, the smiley icon that I posted is named "No, No" which was and still is my response to his question that can be summed up as..


How can I buy a semi-auto rifle from OUT OF STATE that CA DOJ would not know about....otherwords no FFL transfer?

So please tell me how I was wrong in using this to answer the poster's original question ? And any fear I might implied in doing such an act would be well founded.

hoffmang
01-19-2008, 1:33 PM
One of the best ways to buy a semiautomatic rifle and not create any paperwork in California is through the Civilian Marksmanship Program:

http://www.odcmp.com/

You'll have to submit quite a bit of paperwork, and CMP will have records, but California has no information on firearms purchased from them and they will fedex to your door.

-Gene

Hopi
01-19-2008, 2:00 PM
Love it!:rolleyes:


Hopi, the smiley icon that I posted is named "No, No" which was and still is my response to his question that can be summed up as..
How can I buy a semi auto rifle from out of state that the CA DOJ doesn't know about.....otherwords no FFL transfer?



So please tell me how I was wrong in using this to answer the poster's original question ? And any fear I might implied in doing such an act would be well founded.
:rolleyes:Right back at ya.

You can 'sum' up his question any way you want and even add text like "out of state", but the actual question is:
Is there a way to legally buy a California-legal rifle such that the state doesn't know I have it?

Any more questions?

Hunter
01-19-2008, 2:04 PM
....

You can 'sum' up his question any way you want and even add text like "out of state",

Maybe you need to read the title of the thread once again

Out of State Buying/Loaning

Hopi
01-19-2008, 2:09 PM
This is the question that I was answering.
Is there a way to legally buy a California-legal rifle such that the state doesn't know I have it?





I did not answer his question re: out of state loans, which he distinctly separated and labeled "related".

In a related question, can I have my brother-in-law in Utah loan me a rifle that I can bring back to CA for an extended period of time without the state knowing?



And again, as a couple of members posted above, there are legal ways to acquire firearms without alerting the state, even when purchasing from out of state.

Hunter
01-19-2008, 2:30 PM
......

I made my point on his desire to buy OUT OF STATE guns without going thru an FFL per this threads title and his question on it. Which you took an exception to. But no problem there, as that is your prerogative. But one really should read a new post/thread along with the title posted to fully understand the poster's question. Especially before critizing others because you missed the point of the thread.

Regardless, you made your point on how to do it within CA, which was fine and nobody jumped on you for that.


Anything thing else said at this point is :beatdeadhorse5:

Hopi
01-19-2008, 2:36 PM
I made my point on his desire to buy OUT OF STATE guns without going thru an FFL per this threads title and his question on it. Which you took an exception to. But no problem there, as that is your prerogative. But one really should read a new post/thread along with the title posted to fully understand the poster's question. Especially before critizing others because you missed the point of the thread.

Regardless, you made your point on how to do it within CA, which was fine and nobody jumped on you for that.


Anything thing else said at this point is :beatdeadhorse5:

That's rich.

So, when you posted the "no no no" smiley, you were implying that he couldn't buy a rifle from out of state without alerting the DOJ, right?
Well, Gene corrected you there:
One of the best ways to buy a semiautomatic rifle and not create any paperwork in California is through the Civilian Marksmanship Program:

http://www.odcmp.com/

You'll have to submit quite a bit of paperwork, and CMP will have records, but California has no information on firearms purchased from them and they will fedex to your door.

-Gene

Curiously, how was your original post with the smiley passing on correct info?

mbrown
01-19-2008, 8:35 PM
I apologize for posting such an explosive topic and then leaving the forum. I spent most of the day at the office :(

For what it's worth, I assure all that my intentions are responsible and peaceable. And no, I'm not an 18 year old looking for trouble. I'm a 35 year old family man who is finally at a point to consider affording and owning legal firearms. I'm also a staunch conservative who believes in freedom and the constitution.

Here is my background. Although I grew up a city boy (San Jose), I've always been a defender of the right to bear arms. My father wasn't much into shooting, so he didn't introduce me to it. My first chance to shoot was as a young Boy Scout shooting .22s and it really thrilled me. I eventually completed the Rifle and Shotgun Shooting merit badge. As a teenager I subscribed to Guns and Ammo even though our family had no firearms and I rarely had the chance to go shooting. When I was 14 or 15 I completed a hunter's safety training course and even had a hunting license for a year or two. I found out that I enjoy target shooting more than hunting. Since then I've had the odd chance to go shooting with various rifles/shotguns in various settings. My first experience with handguns was recent. My brother-in-law's father is FBI and after a training meeting, he took some of us to a local indoor range for practice. Since then I've purchased a Gun Vault and I've acquired a HSC.

Although I do enjoy shooting and will go sometimes, there are simply too many other tasks to keep me from going shooting very often. Still, I've decided that I want to own some firearms simply because I can. I want to exercise my rights as an American and because I know the liberals don't want me to and are constantly trying to outlaw it. I'm looking to buy a revolver for home defense. I also want a semi-auto rifle simply because it's close to what the liberals call an "assault rifle." I'm thinking about a Mini-14 in .223. Plus, and let's be honest, a semi-auto rifle is fun!

And in defense of my father: it surprises people to find out that although he is pretty much a non-shooter, he is a member of the NRA :)

1911A-1Fan
01-20-2008, 7:42 AM
I don't have much experience with all these ridiculous laws, so please have patience with me :)

Is there a way to legally buy a California-legal rifle such that the state doesn't know I have it? I'd like to buy a semi-auto rifle, but fear that CA will one day tell me to turn it in. If that day comes, I don't want to turn it in unless I choose to do so. If the state knows I have it, they will know where to find me and make me turn it in.

In a related question, can I have my brother-in-law in Utah loan me a rifle that I can bring back to CA for an extended period of time without the state knowing?

These laws suck, but I tend to be a law-abiding person.

Consider legally buying a gun the modern equivalent of a civil rights protest. If you let fear push you into the underground, the anti-gun lobbies have succeeded in criminalizing gun ownership, their very goal. Exercising legal rights worked for the civil rights movement and for the gay rights movement. Are we no less brave?